(alright, maybe this isn't outrageous, but for me it is)

I just got my bill from Duke Energy for 12/11 to 1/13 and it is $400. This is a 3 bed 2 bath place, between 1300-1500 sqft, and we are fairly conservative with our heating. Average costs for similar places according to the bill was $172, and our heating alone accounted for $243, water heating/laundry was next highest at $41.

We have an electric heat pump...I can't exactly look at it since it is in the attic over the garage and I lack a ladder.

We turn off the vents in the two other rooms, other bathroom, dining room, closet. We keep the heat at 68 and wear sweaters/use blankets when lounging around, turn it down to 65 at night and keep it at 65 during the day. We have the TV and entertainment crap plugged into a surge protector that we turn off whenever we aren't using it. Same with laptop chargers. We keep windows closed. Thermostat is located in a hallway that usually stays warmer compared to the rest of the house.

We do have a vaulted ceiling in the living room, but for fuck's sake not it wouldn't need $400 a month to heat it.

Is there something wrong with our heater? We notice it usually blows out cool air, but I assume that's just what 68 feels like. Putting it at 70 the vents feel warmer, sure, but the house does stay at 68. Vents were changed in early December, if not November.

Help me TWW, you're my only hope.

[Edited on January 15, 2011 at 9:41 AM. Reason : I live near Charlotte, so its been cold, but god damn the average bill is still $173.]

[Edited on January 15, 2011 at 9:41 AM. Reason : My last bill was $250]

[Edited on January 15, 2011 at 9:49 AM. Reason : lkj]

1/15/2011 9:40:42 AM

Heat pump?

1/15/2011 9:45:13 AM

Edited for ^. We have an electric heat pump, don't know what brand.

1/15/2011 9:50:25 AM

Yeah, it could be running all the time and it could be busted. I'd get someone out there to check it. You can also get someone to come out with one of those IR thermometers and check the temperature of the air coming out of the vent... it is hard to tell sometimes with your skin...

mine did this in the summer and they found that my brand new ac unit (brand new house) had a leak...

we have a 3bed/2bath with about 2000 sqft... we keep ours on 68 and our bill for that same time period was 167.

the highest ours has EVER been was 270 and that was last winter around the same time but we kept it on 74 instead of 68.

1/15/2011 9:52:28 AM

Now that I think about it the garage has been relatively warm...guess there's a good chance of a leak.

1/15/2011 9:54:46 AM

We keep the vents open in the dinning room, office, and spare bathroom because. All those doors stay open and I believe if the room is open, then you are supose to keep the vent open.

1/15/2011 10:15:26 AM

mine was $360 for this last billing cycle, in a 1900 sq ft house. I had the heat turned down while the house was vacant over Christmas, too.

1/15/2011 10:25:11 AM

Yea something's up. My parent's house would only cost $400 some months when were growing up there but there's is like 2.5 times bigger than your place.

Did you forget to pay last month's bill and they just tacked it on?

1/15/2011 10:25:41 AM

there are many factors that play into it also... the age of the pump, age of the house, how energy efficient it is (building materials, windows, type of insulation), etc...

1/15/2011 10:26:36 AM

From the reading I've done, you shouldn't close many registers, and maybe not any at all. It actually makes your system work harder and can end up using more energy.


Here's one article about it, but you can google up a lot more info. (its from California, but the same principles apply in our climate):
http://www.consumerenergycenter.org/myths/vents.html

1/15/2011 10:29:24 AM

Quote :

"We keep the vents open in the dinning room, office, and spare bathroom because. All those doors stay open and I believe if the room is open, then you are supose to keep the vent open."

News to me

Its a new house, built in 2004.

1/15/2011 10:36:12 AM

^ I told you that :p

1/15/2011 11:44:44 AM

yeah, keep the vents open. open the blinds during the day to let the sun heat the house too. an electric heat pump won't pump out hot air at the register like gas does. that's just not how it works. i dislike heat pumps for that reason.

just bc someone's parents' house is larger & their bill is smaller doesn't mean anything at all. there are lots of different factors that go into it (position relative to the sun, location, shade, age of the house, insulation, # & type of windows, doors, average temps, heating unit type & age, etc etc etc). my house was built in 1964, 1609sf, & costs around $500-600 to heat in the winter. i live in rocky mount with communist utilities where the electric rate is 25% higher than progress energy. my office (same town, mile down the road) was built in 2001, 5400sf, 15' ceilings in the backroom, & the that bill is around $800.

anyway, it's worth getting it checked out!

[Edited on January 15, 2011 at 12:00 PM. Reason : ]

1/15/2011 11:58:35 AM

You shouldn't be closing any of your vents

[Edited on January 15, 2011 at 12:14 PM. Reason : someone already said it]

1/15/2011 12:13:30 PM

Yeah I'd get someone out there ASAP. It sounds like you're paying almost $15 a day so waiting around is just going to cost you more $$.... especially if the problem isn't at its "worst".

1/15/2011 12:20:48 PM

something like this happened to me, turns out there was something wrong with the AC/Heating unit and both were running at max for pretty much the whole month. Utility company didn't care. Get it fixed ASAP

1/15/2011 12:31:03 PM

A heat-pump uses a compressor to force heat from the 35 degree air outside into the 68 degree air inside. However, as the temperature outside drops, this process becomes less efficient (fewer BTUs) and the BTUs needed increases as more and more heat is lost through the walls/windows/leaky doors/etc. Because of this, all heat-pumps have emergency backups, most of which consist of electric heating coils which are horribly inefficient but will keep your house warm when the outside is too cold for the heat-pump to keep up. It depends on your thermostat, but mercury ones use a temperature differential. 1 degree too cold turns on the heatpump, 2 degrees too cold turns on both the heatpump and the electric coils. Whenever you turn the thermostat from 65 to 68, you may be daily forcing the system to use the coils when the heat-pump would work more cheaply. Getting a better thermostat would fix this.

It is fairly easy to tell the difference between the two. Unless it is hot outside or your heat-pump is oversized, the air coming out of the vents should never feel that warm, five to ten degrees, requiring many hours to heat a house from 60 to 68. However, the electric coils are almost always hot as hell and can heat the entire house in half an hour. My last residence I could tell when the coils were on because the floor vents would be too hot to stand on with bare feet. My sub-lease enjoyed monkeying with the thermostat, which was mercury based, with commensurate power bills to match. When they moved out, the outside temperature dropped, and so did our power bill :-)

It has been unusually cold lately. Your heat-pump just may not work at these temperatures. It also could be covering up a major problem. If the heat-pump is broken and producing no heat, your thermostat may be keeping the house warm 100% of the time using the electric coils, running the compressor the whole time for good measure.

1/15/2011 12:43:43 PM

thanks for the advice

1/15/2011 1:15:57 PM

Yeah I called the realtor company this morning and of course, its the weekend so no one is working. Hopefully they'll have someone out soon.

1/15/2011 1:42:42 PM

go ahead and open up the guest bedroom vent and door I guess. these people have given a compelling argument.

1/15/2011 2:07:53 PM

The range I've seen in some HVAC texts is about 40 degrees. Below 40 degrees there is generally not enough energy in the air to heat your home, that's about when the electric coils will be coming on.

1/15/2011 3:51:17 PM

i know what loneshark is talking about... when i was growing up my mother would call it the "blue light special" b/c the thermostat would show a blue light when those heating coils were on..

at my house, the thermostat calls it "aux heat" or something like that... but it hardly ever comes on unless i increase the thermostat a few degrees for some odd reason

1/15/2011 4:30:24 PM

^ With many units, the electric heating coils cut on any time you set the thermostat more than 2 degrees above ambient temperature.

1/15/2011 4:36:36 PM

Most heat pumps barely work when it gets below 35 degrees. Since it has been so cold, your heat pump/coils were probably running non stop. No big surprise.

[Edited on January 15, 2011 at 4:38 PM. Reason : .]

1/15/2011 4:37:56 PM

Just a note... check your filters.

1/15/2011 5:27:48 PM

^ + x infinity

1/15/2011 6:28:23 PM

Just for reference, my bill doubled from november during this same time period ThePeter. My solution was to replace my filters, turn the thermostat down another degree (65°), and to try some of that shitty adhesive foam on my doors.

My bill was about $212 though and my house is from the 1970's with shitty insulation and single pane windows all over the place. It is a brick house.

I'm thinking your place was built by a bunch of jackleg assholes since you said it was built new in 2004. Sounds like a vent or two fell down in the crawlspace, or your builder grade AC system is leaking refrigerant, or certain exposed walls of your home weren't insulated properly, or or or...

[Edited on January 15, 2011 at 8:16 PM. Reason : My house is 1360 ft² ranch, for reference.]

1/15/2011 8:16:00 PM

They also have those clear plastic films that you can tape around your windowsills and shrink to fit with a blowdryer, adds an extra air pocket seal for drafty windows which really helps for insulation

My place has a gas water heater and actually uses the water heater to heat the house, seems pretty efficient, as my electricity bill is essentially 90% my beast desktop, hdtv, and xbox.

You also could buy some efficient space heaters and just use those in the rooms you spend time in, keep the central heat turned way down

1/15/2011 8:42:45 PM

Joe's roommate here. Joe agrees that there are a bunch of different factors that can decrease the efficiency of the house, from the HVAC unit to the construction materials of the house. $400 is high for only 1500 sq ft though especially for keeping it at 68/65.

He also says watch out for those "energy efficient" space heaters that come with a higher price. By design, all space heaters are 100% efficient.

1/15/2011 9:35:04 PM

if you don't have one, i would recommend getting a thermostat with an indication for when the back-up coils are running

1/15/2011 10:24:42 PM

Quote :

"By design, all space heaters are 100% efficient."

Quite true. Also, an efficient heat-pump can attain a COP of 2.1, or 210% efficiency. This is why just a few degrees drop outside, causing the system to use the electric coils, can double an electric bill.

But you are still correct. Heating one or two rooms with no outside doors can probably take 1/10th the electricity as heating the whole house. A radiant space heater can make a 50 degree room feel 70.

[Edited on January 16, 2011 at 2:07 AM. Reason : .,.]

1/16/2011 2:04:13 AM

My electric bill was also $austrailia this month.

1/16/2011 10:40:24 AM

I live in Hickory, where it's been cold as shit too

For a 850 ft^2 apartment with the heat set on 62* my power bill was $93, so your bill sounds about right......

1/16/2011 12:00:10 PM

Quote :

"We notice it usually blows out cool air, but I assume that's just what 68 feels like."

It should be blowing out warmer air than that to eventually bring the temperature of the home to 68.

1/16/2011 12:45:09 PM

I noticed earlier this morning, around 11, that it was on emergency heat.

Its like 68 outside.

I've turned the a/c off and opened the windows.

Also, I said in the OP but I changed the filters in the end of November, so before the billing cycle for this $400 bill

[Edited on January 16, 2011 at 1:04 PM. Reason : lkj]

Quote :

"You also could buy some efficient space heaters and just use those in the rooms you spend time in, keep the central heat turned way down"

I've thought about it, but its against our lease to have space heaters. Granted if it comes down to it and the realtor won't fix anything/doesn't find anything wrong I'll use a space heater and be real careful

[Edited on January 16, 2011 at 1:06 PM. Reason : lkj]

1/16/2011 1:03:08 PM

Update: Called the realtor this morning and they argued with me for a little bit that the heater probably wasn't broken, saying that it was just cold and I must have had it set to emergency heat. When I said it was running on emergency over the weekend and it was 60's outside, and that I was not infact retarded they said someone would call me about fixing it.

Still waiting on the call back, but today I'm just going to buy a space heater as a temporary fix. Girlfriend nearly had an asthma attack because of the dry air conditions (we have a cold mist humidifier) so fuck waiting for these asshats to fix it.

1/17/2011 3:35:37 PM

I use an oil filled radiator style heater in my bedroom when it gets really cold. Once the oil is brought up to temp it doesn't run much at all.

1/17/2011 4:30:32 PM

Oil filled supplemental heaters FTW.


Also, everyone's bill is stupid high in December, get used to it or get off the fucking grid.

1/17/2011 6:08:04 PM

^you're stupid high

actually you're just stupid. read the thread

1/17/2011 6:36:17 PM

We're in 2500 and leave it set on 67 always and ours was $240 last month.

1/17/2011 9:37:47 PM

I now live in 1900 sq ft and December was $64 electric and $42 for gas. We have a heat-pump with gas furnace as the backup. The system has a fairly advanced computerized controller, so it is set to 68 when we are home and off the rest of the time.

[Edited on January 17, 2011 at 11:24 PM. Reason : .,.]

1/17/2011 11:22:40 PM

holy**** I just got raped

1/18/2011 12:18:00 AM

Quote :

"read the thread"

Emergency heat or not, I promise you everyones Dec. bill is higher. I went through this shit last year when we noticed our bill nearly tripled that month, this year we did everything we could to cut back electricity usage for the December billing period, we still haven't cut the upstairs heat (electric) on yet, and it was still a lot higher than it should have been.

1/18/2011 1:22:40 AM

thepeter's thermostat might be broken if its running aux heat when its warm and he hasn't touched it, thermostat's are cheap enough to check.

1/18/2011 1:50:06 AM

$117

What a freakin' rip.

1/18/2011 7:14:47 AM

This thread just made me check my gas bill $200

1/18/2011 7:55:16 AM

I now realize that December is cold and that more cold equals more heat and more heat means more power and more power means more money. I sincerely thank you for pointing that out to me oh powerful denizens of TWW.

The high bill was a symptom of a problem. Especially when our $400 power bill was triple of the average reported by Duke Energy for our size home, and higher than anything in this thread.

I investigated and realized it was running on emergency heat constantly. I confirmed air temperature near the thermostat with a thermometer (crude, but effective) and it reads the right temperature. In my opinion, the thermostat is fine. The problem is the heater. It blows out cold air all the time until it kicks on the emergency heat, which brings the heat up in the house, then it turns off, rinse and repeat. I've seen this happen.

That's BAD. That's not how its supposed to work. HEATER NOT GOOD. (please confirm oh powerful TWWers)

Now I need a realtor-approved technician to figure out why. This thread was partly to confirm my suspicions that the heater was bad and give justification when the realtor was all "nah you need to change your filters...oh you did? well you MUST have it set on emergency heat" (which is exactly what they told me when I called it in)

When I changed the filters, they were absolutely encrusted with dust. I moved into the house on Oct 22nd, and the realtor confirmed over the phone that they never changed the filters. So more than likely the fail previous tenants never changed the filters, breaking the heater and causing leaks. I say fail because we received a $1300 bill for sewer when we moved in, when sewer is like $30-$40 a month.

Now back to your regularly scheduled trolling ITT.

1/18/2011 8:20:52 AM

Is the unit outside icing up? It could be low on refrigerant if so.

If not it could be the compressor or a relay that controls the compressor.

It could still be the T-stat though. Just because it reads the right temperature and cuts the inside fan on doesn't mean it's sending the control voltage to the outside unit.

Heat pumps are also going to have a defrost cycle which could run after a certain amount of time that the compressor is run for or at a certain point if there is a temp/ice sensor in the outside unit. This defrost cycle will activate the Aux. heat because it essentially runs in cooling mode to heat (defrost) the coils outside. If it is continually icing up, it could be running the defrost cycle way too often which not only runs the Aux heat but also dumps some of the heat outside, making an inefficient system even worse.

[Edited on January 18, 2011 at 8:33 AM. Reason : I'm not really a HVAC person though so these are just basic things it could be]

1/18/2011 8:31:49 AM

Quote :

"You shouldn't be closing any of your vents"

Out of curiosity is it ok to close vents to balence heat load??

For example my room, bathroom, and closet each have their own vent. In the summer if i keep these all open my room turns
into an ice box. On the reverse my roommate as a FROG and by closing one of the three living room vents and closing the
bathroom vent (bathroom closest to the thermostat) we are able to keep his room warmer without jacking the heater to 75. By
the way increasing heat to 75 bakes out my room.

1/18/2011 9:08:28 AM

Quote :

"When I changed the filters, they were absolutely encrusted with dust. I moved into the house on Oct 22nd, and the realtor confirmed over the phone that they never changed the filters. So more than likely the fail previous tenants never changed the filters"

Wouldn't you have also failed for not checking the filters when you moved in??

1/18/2011 9:29:04 AM