http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/09/23/womans-execution-nears-virginia/

Quote :

"The 41-year-old woman, who defense attorneys said was borderline mentally disabled,"

And she didn't pull the trigger

Quote :

"She met at a Walmart with the two men who ultimately killed Julian Lewis and his son."

Yet the two that did pull the trigger only got life in prison. Wtf?

9/24/2010 7:14:20 AM

right, she masterminded the murders. She had her husband and stepson killed for the insurance money. She knew that she'd get $250K from the death of the stepson, as he was in the military.

You have to remember who was saying that she was retarded, her defense attorneys, who will say/do almost anything to win their case.

The other 2 got life sentences, and it was their testimony (along with evidence) that proved she was the mastermind of the crime.

I have absolutely no problem with the death penalty actually being used and I have absolutely no problem with Virginia executing this criminal.

9/24/2010 7:51:41 AM

9/24/2010 8:10:55 AM

Quote :

"You have to remember who was saying that she was retarded, her defense attorneysIQ tests, who will say/do almost anything to win their have no opinion on her case"

FTFY

Quote :

"I have absolutely no problem with the death penalty actually being used"

Congrats you're sub-human.


So let me see if I understand this. Two apparently non retarded men were manipulated (and driven by greed of course) by a near-retard into blasting two humans...

AND WE EXECUTE THE FUCKING NEAR RETARD?


Wait, let me read that again...

...

...


WHAT

THE

FUCK

?


Who put the guns to these motherfucks heads and said pull the trigger? What is the fear here, that these guys will protect the bitch if they aren't given a deal, letting her go free to do it again? Ok, thats a reasonably assumption, but why you gonna execute her for it...so the family gets some sort of closure that more blood was shed?

Fantastic, we're still barbaric as fuck thousands of years after man started walking upright.

9/24/2010 9:00:46 AM

while im not decided on my stance on the death penalty - what's your basis for saying that she's "near retarded"?

9/24/2010 9:12:49 AM

Quote :

"Fantastic, we're still barbaric as fuck thousandsmillions of years after man started walking upright."

[Edited on September 24, 2010 at 9:17 AM. Reason : []

9/24/2010 9:17:29 AM

Not buying it, she was obvioulsy competent enough to know that she could cash in on her stepson's insurance money and was able to set up the murder of her husband and stepson.

And I think the hitmen should get the death penalty too, but you can't use the logic that well since they didn't get the death penalty she shouldn't.

9/24/2010 9:19:56 AM

Double

[Edited on September 24, 2010 at 9:20 AM. Reason : .]

9/24/2010 9:19:56 AM

they're just trying to pad their stats on woman executions to cover up the social injustices vis a vis massive disparities in men vs woman executions

9/24/2010 9:28:55 AM

Quote :

"I think the hitmen should get the death penalty too"

this is the epitome of when the death penalty should be used...when you actively plan a murder(s) over the course of weeks or months, with ample time to mull the decisions and consequences.

9/24/2010 9:36:56 AM

Quote :

"The other 2 got life sentences, and it was their testimony (along with evidence) that proved she was the mastermind of the crime. "

They cooperated and admitted their guilt. They're scum for sure and I wouldn't miss them, but if it helped reveal the truth I'm sure they made a deal to avoid execution.

The "near-retarded" and "borderline retarded" canard is stupid. If you're not-retarded enough to plan the death of your husband and stepson for 250k, then you're not-retarded enough to be executed.

[Edited on September 24, 2010 at 9:53 AM. Reason : hyphens for clarity]

9/24/2010 9:52:22 AM

let me add Potty Mouth to my list of people not to take seriously...

maybe you should include the parts were she used sex, money, and promises of a cut of the insurance money to get the gunmen to help her.

maybe you should also be aware of the fact that one of the gunmen committed suicide already.

Quote :

"this is the epitome of when the death penalty should be used...when you actively plan a murder(s) over the course of weeks or months, with ample time to mull the decisions and consequences. "

9/24/2010 9:54:53 AM

Don't forget whoring out her daughter too!

[Edited on September 24, 2010 at 10:00 AM. Reason : whoring for sex was redundant]

9/24/2010 9:59:51 AM

Quote :

"Congrats you're sub-human. So let me see if I understand this. Two apparently non retarded men were manipulated (and driven by greed of course) by a near-retard into blasting two humans... AND WE EXECUTE THE FUCKING NEAR RETARD? Wait, let me read that again... ... ... WHAT THE FUCK ? Who put the guns to these motherfucks heads and said pull the trigger? What is the fear here, that these guys will protect the bitch if they aren't given a deal, letting her go free to do it again? Ok, thats a reasonably assumption, but why you gonna execute her for it...so the family gets some sort of closure that more blood was shed? Fantastic, we're still barbaric as fuck thousands of years after man started walking upright."

Congrats. You show your ignorance by implementing insults while discussing the merits of this case.

I think the hit men should have also received the death penalty, but seeing as one already offed himself, the point for that guy is moot. The other one should still be getting the death penalty.

Also, this woman showed intelligence not only in the plot, but she apparently had a history plotting some scandalous shit.

Pretty much all my rebuttal points have been made by other posters.

9/24/2010 10:02:26 AM

Quote :

""Tonight the death machine exterminated the beautiful childlike and loving spirit of Teresa Lewis," said her lawyer, James Rocap."

Quote :

"Lewis enticed two men through sex, cash and a promised cut in an insurance policy to shoot her husband, Julian Clifton Lewis Jr., and his son, Charles, as they were sleeping in the couple's mobile home in October 2002. Both triggermen were sentenced to life in prison and one committed suicide in 2006."

Quote :

""I was doing drugs, stealing, lying and having several affairs during my marriages," Lewis wrote in a statement that was read at a prison religious service in August. "I went to church every Sunday, Friday and revivals but guess what? I didn't open my Bible at home, only when I was at church.""

Quote :

"Her father said she ran off to get married, then later abandoned her children and ran off with her sister's husband. Then she had an affair with her sister's fiance while at the same time having an affair with another man."

Quote :

"She also arranged sex with Fuller and her daughter, who was 16, in a parking lot."

Quote :

"On the night before Halloween in 2002, after she prayed with her husband, Lewis got out of bed, unlocked the door to their mobile home and put the couple's pit bull in a bedroom so the animal wouldn't interfere. Shallenberger and Fuller came in and shot both men several times with the shotguns Lewis had bought for them."

Beautiful, childlike, and loving.

[Edited on September 24, 2010 at 10:16 AM. Reason : s]

9/24/2010 10:15:48 AM

Quote :

"If you're not-retarded enough to plan the death of your husband and stepson for 250k, then you're not-retarded enough to be executed."

i mean it's not like she planned it well enough to get away with it...

9/24/2010 11:20:53 AM

piss poor planning does not make a retard.

9/24/2010 11:21:55 AM

Haha let's get Soap Boxers to classify mental illness

It'll be like the blind leading the blind

9/24/2010 11:23:30 AM

the only problem with this is that all three were not executed.

on national tv.

9/24/2010 11:28:58 AM

Hmm not barbaric enough

You're slacking

9/24/2010 11:29:46 AM

She should have been drawn and quartered, and her family raped.

9/24/2010 11:35:36 AM

Quote :

"She should have been drawn and quartered, and her family raped."

Collective punishment more like common-sense conservative values

9/24/2010 11:36:18 AM

Or redistribution of wealth punishment

9/24/2010 11:59:52 AM

Quote :

"Haha let's get Soap Boxers to classify mental illness It'll be like the blind leading the blind"

Insightful. Are you saying she was mentally retarded? Because even the folks that are trying to spin it that way aren't making the claim.

9/24/2010 12:36:54 PM

Quote :

"Insightful. Are you saying she was mentally retarded? Because even the folks that are trying to spin it that way aren't making the claim."

Just expressing my frustration is that ok? Can I post however the fuck I want to in this here soap box? ~ Fly away hater ~

9/24/2010 12:49:36 PM

Quote :

"You have to remember who was saying that she was retarded, her defense attorneysIQ tests, who will say/do almost anything to win their have no opinion on her case"

Who is to say she didn't play dumb so she wouldn't be killed...

9/24/2010 1:19:37 PM

^
It's possible, but our legal system presumes innocence with lack of proof. It's supposed to, anyways.

9/24/2010 1:32:26 PM

I would say the proof lies in the pudding. Her actions with regards to arranging the murder.

9/24/2010 1:34:58 PM

HOLY FUCK

disco_stu and I agree on all counts.

Also, all three of them should've gotten the fucking needle.

9/24/2010 1:54:50 PM

call me a barbarian

but even if a person is mentally challenged, if they are capable of murder and plotting the sort of horrible crime displayed here, they deserve the death penalty.

I would also argue that any person who commits a murder, other than in the course of self defense, is probably at least a little mentally whacked out. all we are talking about are the degrees of whackiness.

[Edited on September 24, 2010 at 2:24 PM. Reason : ..]

9/24/2010 2:24:11 PM

Quote :

"call me a barbarian but even if a person is mentally challenged, if they are capable of murder and plotting the sort of horrible crime displayed here, they deserve the death penalty. I would also argue that any person who commits a murder, other than in the course of self defense, is probably at least a little mentally whacked out. all we are talking about are the degrees of whackiness."

Looks like I don't even need to say it myself

9/24/2010 3:25:40 PM

Death Penalty Poll
http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=598150&page=1

Just throwing out some anti-death penalty comments from that generic discussion into this specific case. (Not necessarily in the proper order, several quotes in a row rather than divided up, not necessarily full parts of the quotes rather only the parts relating to opposition)

God
Oppose in all situations.

You can never prove that someone is 100% guilty, and if one person is wrongly executed (which has clearly already happened) then it should never happen ever again.

Besides, it's more expensive to put someone on death row than life imprisonment.

You can never prove that someone is 100% guilty. And while life imprisonment can be overturned (for as long as the person lives), the death penalty is a punishment that you can't take back no matter how hard you try.

This is a list of 138 people who were sentenced to death and subsequently exonerated:
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/innocence-list-those-freed-death-row

Had we had a more "efficient" justice system, as you'd put it, those 138 people would have been wrongly put to death by the state.

I've clearly established that life imprisonment is not a walk in the park.

In case you would like to see what other great, civilized, and respected countries we share this policy with:


Great.

So far, no one has disputed the following facts:

Life imprisonment is cheaper than the death penalty.

People have been wrongly executed who have been sentenced to the death penalty.

Prison is a harsh place, so it's not like life imprisonment is somehow "easier" for the criminal than the death penalty.

So why in the world would you want to keep the death penalty? Just to satisfy some petty vengeance?

m52ncsu
Oppose in all situations

murder is immoral, even if its state sanctioned.

OopsPowSrprs
Anyway, I'm opposed.

We all experience vengeful feelings. That's normal. But I don't think we should be designing our justice system to satisfy those feelings.

adultswim
I'm against state sanctioned killing. I don't believe in "evil" and "good" people. I think normal people are capable of terrible things depending on the circumstance. I also think terrible people are capable of good things. Everyone is born with a different brain chemistry. Rehabilitation and therapy can do wonders, in most cases.

In all honesty, though, if someone killed a member of my family in cold blood, I would be out for revenge. Humans are emotional.

BobbyDigital
as it is today, I oppose it on the grounds of the cost to taxpayers vs. life in prison.

theDuke866
I have a few issues with our implementation of it

d357r0y3r
Unfortunately, I don't trust our justice system, and if one innocent person is getting put to death, that's one too many.

Shivan Bird
Oppose on the basis of uncertainty.

in favor of the death penalty 50% of the time.



darkone
Why execute people when you can put them to hard labor for the rest of their lives? I say profit off their continued existence. Dead people can't be used for cheap labor.

ParksNrec
Against in all cases. Justice is better served, in my opinion, with life in prison.

indy
This is the main reason why I oppose it. (responding to "Right now we have no way to prove someone is 100% guilty")

qntmfred
Oppose

smc
Get a grip guys. We have the oversight of career politicians in the form of pardons. They wouldn't let anything bad happen. No, the condemned are certainly guilty. Without a doubt guilty. Especially the dead ones.

AndyMac
Oppose

arghx
Oppose, but priority-wise it's not something I get super worked up about compared to some people. Call it somewhat tacit opposition.

pooljobs
it's exactly only revenge, that's the problem.

if the death penalty is here to say i think juries should be required to witness the execution if that is what the recommend in sentencing

9/24/2010 3:47:18 PM

the fuck?

9/24/2010 3:52:10 PM

Is that a statement or a question?

9/24/2010 4:00:17 PM

It is the massive scheming and cunning planning that makes her an evil person. So her IQ is 72, which is borderline-retarded according to her defense, but all the massive planning (and all the sex and gifts) shows she is capable of higher level mental functions.

I agree that all 3 should have gotten the death penalty. But I can kind of see why she got it and they didn't.

Remember Abu Ghraib? When the low life wretched redneck soldiers got punished for it (slaps on the wrist basically) and everybody was saying they were just foot soldiers and that people higher up the command chain (the diabolical Cheney et al) should have been punished as well.... Yeah, same thing here.

9/24/2010 4:14:38 PM

Quote :

"Life imprisonment is cheaper than the death penalty."

Seems like a strong argument for fixing ridiculous judicial costs. Also, who cares if it's cheaper? Not imprisoning anyone would be cheaper on a prison cost sheet.

Quote :

"People have been wrongly executed who have been sentenced to the death penalty."

Not even going to attempt to dispute this. It sucks. More than zero innocent people have died because murderers were not put to death. Well shit, time to abandon the entire system.

Quote :

"Prison is a harsh place, so it's not like life imprisonment is somehow "easier" for the criminal than the death penalty."

How can you sleep at night being in support of locking innocent people for their entire life of torment and pain? People have been wrongly sentenced to life imprisonment and died in prison even though they were innocent.

The bottom line for me is that there are actions that a person can commit that clearly illustrate that they don't value human life and therefore don't deserve to have one. Yes, the blood of innocent condemned is on my hands, as well as the blood of innocent convicts who were not sentenced to die but who suffered less humane methods than lethal injection (which presumably outnumber the wrongly executed by orders of magnitude).

The conviction and sentencing system is broken. We need to fix this. Not killing people that deserve to be killed is not the solution. It boggles my mind that people just gloss over the countless innocent people trampled by our judicial system to try to protect the most depraved animals to crawl this earth.

Quote :

"You can never prove that someone is 100% guilty"

I wholeheartedly disagree with this statement. It's only valid if you think that "You can never prove with 100% certainty anything, including things which have incontrovertible evidence." In which case, why the hell are we punishing anyone for anything?

[Edited on September 24, 2010 at 4:39 PM. Reason : .]

9/24/2010 4:34:05 PM

^^Except that the military isn't going to enforce consequences for disobedience when you don't obey the borderline-retarded bitch. Disobeying her does not carry the same moral weight as a soldier disobeying authority (especially since people joining the military are more likely to be the sort of people who associate authority with morality in some way). The law is completely clear as to whether or not someone should disobey the murderous retard.


Civilian criminal situations are completely and totally different from military chain of command.


I mean, I can also kind of see why she got the death penalty and they didn't, in that I can follow the (probably flawed) reasoning of whoever made the decision... but I still think that line of reasoning is almost completely backwards.

Eh, hell, I don't think any of them should have gotten the death penalty, anyway. As I've said before, I'd rather see the death penalty reserved only for situations of premeditated mass killings (serial killers, shooting sprees, mass murder ala 9/11... that sort of thing).

[Edited on September 24, 2010 at 4:35 PM. Reason : .]

9/24/2010 4:35:02 PM

^ I know, my analogy is only with regards to how human relations work, not actual technical set up.

She hatched the plot, planned it with cunning and foresight, and got 2 people to do murders for her. Surely, idiots can't plan and execute like that. She was the mastermind, so she got the harshest punishment.

And as for my analogy, what about gang and mafia and drug bosses? They definitely get harsher punishments than people who do their dirty deeds. And they themselves might have never harmed anybody physically, but still, since they direct and authorize murders, drug trafficking, sex slavery, whatever, they get tougher sentences.

9/24/2010 5:10:28 PM

^Eh, with mafias and gangs, there's the moral concern of loyalty to family or in-group that people have to tangle with when considering disobedience. That's not too far removed from the moral concern of loyalty to government/law/authority. My use of the words "civilian criminal situations" may have been too broad. Consider organized crime networks to be an exception.

9/24/2010 5:35:12 PM

Look, most people who get the death penalty aren't Mensa members, or even of average intelligence. You really think this dumb bitch is much different from most bottomfeeder trailer trash (I don't mean your run of the mill blue-collar types who live in a trailer--my parents lived in a trailer until a couple of months before I was born--and my aunt and uncle lived beside them in a trailer when I was a kid...I mean true, epically uncivilized trailer trash)? If 100 is average intelligence, then there is no shortage of people who are way the hell below that.

Quote :

"theDuke866 I have a few issues with our implementation of it"

Absolutely true.

Quote :

" the only problem with this is that all three were not executed. on national tv."

Also true.

Quote :

"She hatched the plot, planned it with cunning and foresight, and got 2 people to do murders for her."

Exactly. Kill 'em all.

Quote :

"I would also argue that any person who commits a murder, other than in the course of self defense, is probably at least a little mentally whacked out. all we are talking about are the degrees of whackiness."

I disagree. I think I'm very stable, and there are people whom I would kill. It would just be taking out the garbage, for the benefit of everyone else. Fixing the glitch, if you will. I just don't feel like looking over my shoulder and living my life on the run.

Quote :

"Civilian criminal situations are completely and totally different from military chain of command."

There is no obligation to obey unlawful orders in the military.


[Edited on September 24, 2010 at 7:41 PM. Reason : ]

9/24/2010 7:39:39 PM

Quote :

"There is no obligation to obey unlawful orders in the military."

If you'll indulge my curiosity... if you do indeed disobey an order you believe to be unlawful, is the burden of proof then on you to show that your orders were unlawful? If you cannot show (or, more generally, if it isn't shown) that these orders are unlawful, do you not face some sort of consequences for insubordination? Obviously I'm no longer referencing that Abu Ghraib scenario that 0EP posted (the lawfulness of that was fairly clean-cut), just posing hypothetical questions.

Also, while it's not an official obligation, for some people there's a fairly strong moral obligation to obey authority. That moral obligation isn't necessarily right, but it can still factor heavily into someone's decision-making.

9/24/2010 7:51:49 PM

i don't know; i've never personally seen it invoked.

9/24/2010 8:08:13 PM

some new to me details and pics here:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1314784/Teresa-Lewis-executed-Virginia-state-amid-international-outcry.html

and also a reporter's account of the execution
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1314993/Teresa-Lewis-execution-I-watched-woman-die-One-witness-hand-account.html


btw, how can anybody call her a good person? see Skack's post, and see this:

Quote :

"'A good and decent person is about to lose her life because of a system that is broken,' said lawyer James E. Rocap III, who represents Lewis. "

anybody who can call her those words has to him/herself be a wretched person

9/24/2010 8:28:04 PM

Well, uh, yeah, he's a lawyer.

9/24/2010 8:31:35 PM

Those who are ok with how this played out are trying to spin the story in a way that makes the planning of a murder seem like some complex thing.

She was such the genius, she even thought to put the dog up!!!!

I read at one of the links she has the mental capacity of a 12-14 year old. It's completely obvious she'd have the capability to cook up a plan to claim insurance money (probably to feed her drug addiction) but not have the capability to realize just how morally wrong it is.

I'm not a fan of the death penalty under these type of circumstances because of the money issue and it seems like it would be way more punishing to just lock people away forever and let them go insane on their own, my beef with this whole thing is why the trigger pullers weren't give them same sentence. It's fucking stupid. If they don't pull the trigger, we aren't having this discussion unless the bitch does it herself.

9/24/2010 9:06:02 PM

1. The hitmen should get executed, too.

2. I don't see how you can oppose the death penalty on moral grounds (calling supporters of it "sub-human", even), then claim that you prefer life without parole because it's harsher letting people rot away in a cell, losing their minds.

Not that I have much of a problem with either, per se...I'm just saying that it isn't logically consistent.

3. The argument you're making about her not realizing it was morally wrong holds no water, either.
a. I think that it would require more cognition to orchestrate this than to know it was morally wrong. Can you imagine someone with Down's syndrome planning something like and executing it? I can't. Yet, I think that for the most part, even most people with Down's syndrome would recognize the wrongness of it.
b. I don't think that she's as extraordinarily stupid as you're making her out to be. There are plenty of people that dumb whom you encounter all along, I think.
c. What you're describing is the insanity defense. Even her lawyer didn't see fit to use this as her defense--she pleaded guilty.
d. I think that her hiring of hitmen is itself an indicator that she recognized that killing them was wrong.

9/24/2010 9:21:38 PM

Quote :

"I don't see how you can oppose the death penalty on moral grounds (calling supporters of it "sub-human", even), then claim that you prefer life without parole because it's harsher letting people rot away in a cell, losing their minds."

Well, they don't "rot" per se. I'm not talking lifetime solitary confinement, though, perhaps we should do just that but give them the instruments for their suicide in case they'd like to take that option.

I guess I've just never been comfortable with the idea of ending human life unnecessarily. It accomplish no goal. And I especially am not comfortable with it in situations where this womans mental state isn't up to par with your average American.

Quote :

"The argument you're making about her not realizing it was morally wrong holds no water, either."

I didn't make that argument. I made the argument that I can see how a less than developed adult couldn't fully comprehend their actions. I can see her or someone similar realizing it is wrong but not really absorbing what it means to be "wrong".

Quote :

"I think that her hiring of hitmen is itself an indicator that she recognized that killing them was wrong."

I don't agree. There were two shooters for two people. Maybe she is afraid of guns. Maybe she doesn't have good aim. Maybe she didn't own a gun. Maybe she feared she wouldn't be able to get off two kill shots.

Btw, her IQ tested at 72. Mental retardation begins at 70.

9/24/2010 9:36:29 PM

Quote :

"Maybe she didn't own a gun."

She bought two guns and gave them to the two hitmen. I suppose the rest of those things are plausible, but in my book, unlikely.

9/24/2010 9:39:16 PM

Quote :

"I read at one of the links she has the mental capacity of a 12-14 year old. [...] not have the capability to realize just how morally wrong it is."

I don't know what 12-14 year olds you know, but at that age (WELL before then) all children know that killing people is a horrible thing. And by the way, she has recognized how horrible her deeds were, before, during, and after the trial. So, your point about her intelligence is invalid.

And since letting someone rot in jail is so much more horrible, view the death penalty as being a more humane option.

theDuke866 nailed it. She doesn't have Down's Syndrome or any other disorder that makes her retarded, she is just of generally low intelligence, but not so low that she can't tell right from wrong. There are tens of millions of people with IQs in that range... I bet a lot of people we pass by and see in our lives (especially if we live in or near 'redneck'/'ghetto' areas/towns) are like her in terms of IQ but we just don't realize it, because they don't stand out like a Down's person would; we just call them names like trailer trash, white trash, hillbilly, ghetto, etc. It is simple statistics.

Quote :

"You really think this dumb bitch is much different from most bottomfeeder trailer trash [...] I mean true, epically uncivilized trailer trash)? If 100 is average intelligence, then there is no shortage of people who are way the hell below that."

Quote :

" I don't think that she's as extraordinarily stupid as you're making her out to be. There are plenty of people that dumb whom you encounter all along, I think."

9/24/2010 9:42:22 PM

That was very bad intelligence!

9/24/2010 9:50:09 PM