Since The News often reads TWW, I'd like to pose an idea that makes too much sense.
There are wildfires every year that destroy homes, houses, trees, infrastructure, wild life, etc.. which add up to millions and billions of dollars and the loss of irreplaceable historical artifacts in the flames.
There are firefighters and tanker planes to combat flames, but apparently, there aren't enough of them to extinguish the fire fast enough.

My proposal is for every state to invest in just 5 tanker planes. That's 250 planes when a wildfire breaks out that could be called upon to form a bucket line of relentless dousing. It'll cost money to operate and in initial costs, but like all investments, but it'll pay for itself over time.

Also since 5 will be stored in each state, relief can come quickly anywhere in the US a fire may break out.

7/31/2010 3:00:05 PM

Let it burn.

7/31/2010 3:11:13 PM

obviously you are a free spending liberal......

7/31/2010 4:14:26 PM

JUST RAISE TAXES TO PAY FOR IT, GUYS

7/31/2010 4:24:51 PM

Let's print more money to spend.

7/31/2010 4:26:18 PM

IVE MADE MILLIONS INVESTING IN FIRE

7/31/2010 4:35:05 PM

The states are in bed with the insurance companies. They benefit from the burning down of people's homes.

Why? House burns down. Insurance company pays for the rebuilding. That means taxes on the raw material and labor!

Home owner gets a new home and stuff (which you pay sales tax on to get the new stuff), State gets tax monies, and the insurance companies get to do their jobs!

7/31/2010 4:40:17 PM

^Agreed. The fire cleanses.

7/31/2010 4:41:19 PM

fires are part of nature, the problem is building houses in forests or grasslands that haven't had a good forest fire in a long time because of fire prevention. if you want to build out there you take your own risk and should pay insurance premiums that reflect that.

7/31/2010 4:45:09 PM

Just quit building fucking houses in areas like that. It burns so bad because people keep putting it out. Let nature run its course.

7/31/2010 5:02:18 PM

Just quit building fucking houses in areas like that. It burns so bad because people keep putting it out. Let nature run its course.

7/31/2010 5:04:40 PM

STOP BUILDING HOUSES IN CALIFORNIA!!1

7/31/2010 5:06:55 PM

LOL what an idiot.

It's a lot easier to tell people they're stupid for building in high hazard areas and charge them higher insurance rates than it is to figure out how to pay for aircraft.

We, the state of NC, own a Type 3 airtanker that cost us $300k+ in the last fiscal year just to own. It didn't leave the ground ONCE because it needs $1.5 million in repairs and inspections.

Why should I, as a taxpayer, expect the state to pay for 4 more of these just so some dumbass's insured house can be saved?

Here's an idea...if we want to live in high hazard areas then why don't we learn to mitigate forest fuels and build fire resistant houses?

That's all I have to say and I'm a wildland firefighter/forest ranger.

[Edited on July 31, 2010 at 8:04 PM. Reason : I'm a NC registered forester too]

7/31/2010 7:57:09 PM

That's all I have to say about that.

7/31/2010 7:58:48 PM

hahahahahahaha

7/31/2010 8:00:26 PM

Here's an idea...perform controlled burns to manage fuel loads and fires don't get out of control so easily.

Fire suppression is fuel for a wildfire.

7/31/2010 8:45:42 PM

Quote :

"We, the state of NC, own a Type 3 airtanker that cost us $300k+ in the last fiscal year just to own. It didn't leave the ground ONCE because it needs $1.5 million in repairs and inspections."

So it didn't leave the ground because of the possibility that it would crash. Makes sense to me.

Quote :

"Why should I, as a taxpayer, expect the state to pay for 4 more of these just so some dumbass's insured house can be saved?"

In 2008, North Carolina brought in $22,781,000,000 in taxes. (http://www.taxadmin.org/fta/rate/08taxbur.html) $1.5 million may be a lot for you, but it's pathetically puny 1/22000th of the income to prevent catastrophes.

Quote :

"Just quit building fucking houses in areas like that. It burns so bad because people keep putting it out. Let nature run its course."

Wildfires are a natural disaster like hurricanes and earthquakes. The only difference is that we have the ability to stop wildfires before they get too big. We don't have the ability to stop hurricanes and earthquakes. We'd be a lot better off without hurricanes and earthquakes. Mainland Canada doesn't see hurricanes and it's perfectly fine. And the east coast doesn't see catastrophic earthquakes and we do just fine. It's a stupid argument that forest fires are good for the planet because they exist naturally.

7/31/2010 9:04:11 PM

you're just ignorant. or dumb. or you're trolling. or some combination of those... *laff*

7/31/2010 9:43:23 PM

Oh stop, you'll hurt my little internet feelings.

7/31/2010 9:46:15 PM

Quote :

"It's a stupid argument that forest fires are good for the planet because they exist naturally."

They're not necessarily "good for the planet", but they're a natural process and considered "good" for pyrophilic ecosystems.

It's a stupid argument that things that are good for people are good for the planet because we exist everywhere.

7/31/2010 10:20:19 PM

The argument is still invalid because trees still exist without forest fires.

7/31/2010 10:29:03 PM

Quote :

"So it didn't leave the ground because of the possibility that it would crash. Makes sense to me. "

You're missing the fucking point GeniuS.
We can't even afford to fix our ONE type 3 tanker. How the fuck do you expect us to afford FOUR more?
In fact, the state has told us we need to reduce the Division of Forest Resources' aviation budget by $1.5 million. We've lost pilot positions and hangars.

I suggest you simply stfu because you don't know wtf you're talking about.

Quote :

"Also since 5 will be stored in each state, relief can come quickly anywhere in the US a fire may break out."

Do you have any idea what our national capabilities are?
NC has our heavy type 3 tanker as well as three type 4 dromaders. At any one point we've got 2-4 type 3 helicopters with bambi buckets. That's just NC. There are TONS of air attack contractors in this country. The National Guard even has MAFFS ready to go.

We are capable as a nation, but do you know why we don't jump all over every damn wildfire with 50 airships and 5000 people? Because it costs money. Lots and lots of money. It'll cost you $20,000+ a day just for a type 1 helicopter to sit at a fire without turning a rotor, then another $3,000 per hour to fly.
I don't want to spend $5 to save someone else's $1, especially if an insurance company will give them their damn $1 anyway.

Quote :

"It's a stupid argument that forest fires are good for the planet because they exist naturally."

Okay...instead of making you feel stupid, i will be nice and actually try and educate you a little bit.

Before the white man came to North America, forests fires naturally occurred (obviously as they do now). They happen in cycles depending on where in the country you are and these cycles occur as often as every 2-3 years to as many as 20 years.
Fires do a number of things. They:
-kill insects or other disease causing agents
-reduce the stocking (number of trees per acre) of a forest by killing some of the trees. This is important because fewer trees = more resources per tree = less stress on the trees = healthy trees
-prepare seed beds for new trees by clearing all the litter off the ground and exposing soil
-cause some fire-dependent species to actually drop their seeds (go read about ponderosa pine)

Since the white man came, some have turned stupid and decided they knew more than they actually do. Fire is scary, so how bout we stop it all? If you take fire away, then then intervals between fire occurrences greatly increases. Lets say you've been able to keep fire out of one particular block of woods for the last 50 years. Lets also say that that particular forest type was adapted to handle fire every 4-6 years. Well...now you've got ten times as much fuel as you normally would because that fuel hasn't had the chance to be consumed by natural fires.
Suppose now that a fire has started. Well fuck, now instead of easy-to-fight 2-10 foot flames that would come from a fire every 4-6 years we've got monster 20-100 foot flames that we can't stop. Those trees adapted to 2-10 foot flames are no match for flames that are 10 times hotter. Those trees burn up. Houses built around these trees burn up. People like you turn more stupid and think even more strongly that fires need to be put out.

Quote :

"The argument is still invalid because trees still exist without forest fires."

Ahahahaha...no they don't.
Read about the bark beetles that are destroying our national parks and forests.
if.we.used.managed.fire.the.trees.would.be.healthy.and.bug.resistant.and.the.beetles.would.be.killed.
Mother nature will kill her trees one way or another.

7/31/2010 10:55:26 PM

This thread is an embarrassment for GeniuSxBoY

My favorite part is when he said:

Quote :

"In 2008, North Carolina brought in $22,781,000,000 in taxes. (http://www.taxadmin.org/fta/rate/08taxbur.html) $1.5 million may be a lot for you, but it's pathetically puny 1/22000th of the income to prevent catastrophes."

You can tell that someone has never managed any kind of finances when they try to look at the total amount and think "whats another 1.5million" like none of it is actually budgeted yet

Do you have any idea what kind of financial issues your state is having right now? Do you know how many state budgets have been forced to be dramatically cut? I need more than one hand to count the number of teachers that have been laid off in NC this year - buying a bunch of aircraft to help out California's wildfires is not going to happen

7/31/2010 11:21:04 PM

Another serious point.

If I am on a fire I can ask for whatever resources we have. I can call for extra Forest Service manpower. There are almost a hundred firefighting bulldozers in the Forest Service I can get. I may ask for a scout plane who's pilot will relay info to me about things i can't see. We've got our air tankers and helicopters...

I can get a lot of things. If I ask for something then someone's going to happily show up to help me kick a fire's ass. We'll be safe and we'll watch each others' backs.
We'll have a good time doing it too.

But in the back of my head, I always think of this...
I'm on a 1/2 acre fire that has the potential to burn some houses. I am fairly confident that I can stop it with fire trucks and a bulldozer. If I get an air tanker they I know I will stop it soon enough. flying is an inherently dangerous activity. Is it worth putting this pilot's life in danger to reduce the risk of this fire damaging someone's house?
I don't care who you are or how much your house is worth. I will try to save it by putting as few people at risk as I can. If you built your house in the middle of the woods with no defensible space then I'm sorry. I won't try to save any house unless I have a pretty good idea that i can do it with minimal risk.

7/31/2010 11:34:01 PM

Oh my....

7/31/2010 11:34:57 PM

Quote :

"We'd be a lot better off without hurricanes"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRYmudWEUSo

7/31/2010 11:36:59 PM

EMCE did you bring this guy over from the ECU PIC forum or what...

[Edited on August 1, 2010 at 12:07 AM. Reason : ]

8/1/2010 12:07:19 AM

kinda sorta

8/1/2010 12:08:42 AM

Quote :

"Do you have any idea what kind of financial issues your state is having right now? Do you know how many state budgets have been forced to be dramatically cut? I"

Hmm. It seems Virginia ended the year with $220 million extra bucks. CA$H M0NEY!!
http://hamptonroads.com/2010/07/virginia-ends-budget-year-220-million-surplus

Cry me a river. We've only been in a recession for 3 years. The reason America as a whole has no money isn't because of the scarcity of it, it's because of the MISMANAGEMENT of it.

Again, cry me a fucking river.

[Edited on August 1, 2010 at 12:14 AM. Reason : .]

8/1/2010 12:13:00 AM

Quote :

"flying is an inherently dangerous activity. Is it worth putting this pilot's life in danger to reduce the risk of this fire damaging someone's house?"

LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

8/1/2010 12:17:14 AM

so...you've got no more to support your first post?

8/1/2010 12:32:05 AM

I'm not sure what you mean. It doesn't need support. My points have been challenged, yet not beaten in any way shape or form. They are merely sad excuses for not being able to perform an act that I know can be enacted and is possible.

There really is no argument. It's plain and simple. Easy. Elementary. Buy the planes, save money overall, cut the bullshit. end of story.



[Edited on August 1, 2010 at 12:37 AM. Reason : .]

8/1/2010 12:35:54 AM

lol, ok...and you know this because you've been educated and have experience in forestry, wildland fire behavior, and wildland firefighting, right?

8/1/2010 12:47:43 AM

Right?

Ohh...No?

Okay, then maybe now it's time for you to shut the fuck up.

8/1/2010 1:00:34 AM

I imagine GeniuSxBoY was a little shocked when a knowledgeable forester / firefighter came into his thread and ruined his GeniuS plan

8/1/2010 1:17:11 AM

cost of planes > or < insurance payouts?

if it saved money the insurance companies would fund it themselves

8/1/2010 1:24:32 AM

8/1/2010 1:25:54 AM

Quote :

"I imagine GeniuSxBoY was a little shocked when a knowledgeable forester / firefighter came into his thread and ruined his GeniuS plan"

Oh you mean the same knowledgeable forester/firefighter that won't send a call out to an airplane because flying is too dangerous?

It's safe to fly people from point A to point B thousands of times a day, but when it has to do with saving people's homes and the forest, it's not worth sending a pilot up. Let's fight the fire face to face! It's safer! Durrrrrr

8/1/2010 3:49:16 AM

so it's worth killing off a pilot, having a family lose their father/mother/husband/wife in order to save someone's INSURED POSSESSIONS???

you can buy new shit. you can build a new house right back in the same fire prone area. you CANNOT replace a person.

fucking insensitive bastard

----

since obviously you're too stupid to figure this out...flying a commercial airliner is nowhere near the same as flying a small plane that drops in to pick up water from small ponds, surrounded by trees that are possibly burning. or even the larger dc-10s with water tanks...they fly low, over trees and through mountains. how is that remotely as safe as flying a bigger, more stable plane at high altitudes and landing in nice large runways with control towers and shit?

you lost this, man. just accept it and move on.

[Edited on August 1, 2010 at 10:27 AM. Reason : ]

8/1/2010 10:22:20 AM

This guy is either one of the best trolls of today's TWW or he's stupider than...well he's just the stupidest user on here. Ever.

8/1/2010 10:37:59 AM

^^
se7entythree, your argument is so stupid that I know you are just trolling now. You've gone and made it too obvious. Women suck at everything.

I'll preempt your next post by saying:

"Everyone knows deadly risks comes with a plethora of jobs including construction, mining, firefighting, police, construction, steel working, oil rigging, and Alaskan crabbing. Flying a plane is less deadly, meaning less people die, than any of the above occupations. They put their lives in danger everyday at the expense of physical property."

8/1/2010 11:48:53 AM

me trolling?? hahaha. retard, Fumbler is my husband. if anyone's trolling it's you. i fully believe everything i said.

how exactly is that last part of your post relevant here?

8/1/2010 11:54:25 AM

Use your brain.

8/1/2010 11:55:13 AM

is that it? i guess you've realized the error of your ways and are giving up now.

i hope for your sake that you're trolling. seriously

8/1/2010 11:57:20 AM

You're too lazy to use your brain, I see.

Stay in the kitchen and cook for your husband. Don't burn yourself on the stove, it's hot.

[Edited on August 1, 2010 at 11:59 AM. Reason : .]

8/1/2010 11:58:44 AM

this makes me lol

oh noooeessss a man told a woman to stay in the kitchen where she belongs!! omg most creative response EVAR

btw i suck at cooking

[Edited on August 1, 2010 at 12:01 PM. Reason : and typing]

8/1/2010 12:01:05 PM

Quote :

"btw i suck at cooking"

Oh I'm aware, and I'm sure Fumbler is aware, too. Just file it under the other things you suck at, like trolling, thinking, and arguing.

8/1/2010 12:03:16 PM

you're aware of this already? how is that?

fumbler's a very good cook. i don't really feel it's either person's sole responsibility to cook. it should be shared. this isn't the 1950s, so you're not insulting me. i'm also the breadwinner. AND female. omg

8/1/2010 12:07:47 PM

I have no qualms with you. I'm trolling you. Helloooooooo, McFly.

8/1/2010 12:09:55 PM

Quote :

"Oh you mean the same knowledgeable forester/firefighter that won't send a call out to an airplane because flying is too dangerous? "

Wow, you're an idiot. Did you even read what I wrote?

Quote :

"It's safe to fly people from point A to point B thousands of times a day, but when it has to do with saving people's homes and the forest, it's not worth sending a pilot up. Let's fight the fire face to face! It's safer! Durrrrrr"

OMG AIR ATTACK IN WILDLAND FIRE SUPPRESSION IS AS SIMPLE AS FLYING FROM POINT A TO POINT B!

Again, what do you know about firefighting?

I said I wouldn't call for a plane if I had a reasonable expectation that I could do without.
Flying an airtanker is a shitload more dangerous than flying anything commercial.
-First, flying in bad fireweather is dangerous. Windys are typically gusty and the atmosphere is usually very unstable. You can have sudden downdrafts while you're flying a plane 20 feet above the tops of trees.
-When the pilot hits the dump button he loses control of the plane for a split second.
-Smoke columns aren't fun and you have to fly through them if you expect to put the water where it needs to be. Smoke columns can carry flaming debris. I've heard tales from pilots of flying by small trees and 4 foot logs being carried up by the convection column.
-Drafting is dangerous. We broke our Type 3 tanker, our Canadair CL-215, on the Tower Ridge Fire in Stokes County in 2008. I was there but didn't see it happen. The plane was drafting and hit an underwater stump. How many underwater stumps do commercial planes encounter?
-

8/1/2010 12:24:23 PM