(In before "old")

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=4181996n&tag=related;photovideo

Denmark, a place where you get weeks of work leave at the start of your employment, a place where college is paid for by the government, a place where healthcare is free, a place where you get paid paternity leave mandated by the government, a place where the tax rate is about 50%.

Clearly, many of you would say that this is a miserable place for anyone to live, but it seems that the opposite is true. Many of the people in the video were stunned to learn that we force our students to pay for their education, or that we force people to pay for their own healthcare. Maybe that's why we're so unhappy in this "greatest place on Earth?"

5/21/2010 10:52:46 AM

so according to the video, the key to happiness is having lowered expectations, then you're never disappointed.

I guess thats one way to do it.

[Edited on May 21, 2010 at 11:05 AM. Reason : .]

5/21/2010 11:02:32 AM

Meaning not working yourself to death in a 60hr/week middle management job thinking you're going to be a millionaire one day.

5/21/2010 11:04:16 AM

Quote :

"Clearly, many of you would say that this is a miserable place for anyone to live"

This is where you exhibited intellectual dishonesty. A country where all of its citizens are strapped down and pumped heroin and nutrients intravenously would also be the happiest place on earth. No one could say they wouldn't have massive levels of endorphins and happy juice flowing.

Some people prefer to balance freedom with emotional happiness. If I gave all of my earnings to the government and they provided me with exactly everything I needed/wanted that would be great too. But I honestly would prefer that I choose exactly what I need and want rather than them.

5/21/2010 11:07:52 AM

Quote :

"If I gave all of my earnings to the government and they provided me with exactly everything I needed/wanted that would be great too. But I honestly would prefer that I choose exactly what I need and want rather than them."

That presupposes than any modern developed country has any group of people arguing that the gov. should choose exactly what everyone needs and wants. This is no how socialism is defined, and no American politician argues for communism.

5/21/2010 11:13:58 AM

liberty and pursuit of happiness >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [relatively] no liberty and happiness

Quote :

"If I gave all of my earnings to the government and they provided me with exactly everything I needed/wanted that would be great too."

No it wouldn't. What a boring and pointless life that would be.

[Edited on May 21, 2010 at 11:34 AM. Reason : ]

5/21/2010 11:31:28 AM

But what are you pursuing?

Do you think Danes don't have liberty and freedom?

5/21/2010 11:34:58 AM

They do until they want to draw a picture of Muhammad.

5/21/2010 11:55:15 AM

Is the Danish government forbidding the drawing of Mohammad, or is that just the fucking crazy Muslim fundamentalists?

5/21/2010 12:02:42 PM

I say move to Denmark if it sounds like Utopia.

leave the rest of us alone to succeed or fail based on our own merits.

5/21/2010 12:04:47 PM

I honestly wish I could. My girlfriend and I are considering moving out of the country once we complete our education.

5/21/2010 12:07:31 PM

Please move somewhere without internet access

5/21/2010 12:08:28 PM

Quote :

"No it wouldn't. What a boring and pointless life that would be."

While I don't disagree, if you were always provided with exactly what you wanted/needed at any given moment, then you would be living a perfect life. Of course this is impossible, just illustrating that a balance between freedom and happiness are justified.

5/21/2010 12:09:32 PM

^I don't think that's what's happening here.

5/21/2010 12:10:18 PM

Quote :

"I say move to Denmark if it sounds like Utopia. leave the rest of us alone to succeed or fail based on our own merits"

5/21/2010 12:26:02 PM

Quote :

"Meaning not working yourself to death in a 60hr/week middle management job thinking you're going to be a millionaire one day."

If you're doing that and don't become a millionaire, you're a moron.

5/21/2010 12:32:52 PM

Quote :

"If you're doing that and don't become a millionaire, you're a moron."

Well, I would wager (and I think you would agree with me) that most people work hard at their jobs.

But, as we established from the other thread, 1% of the people own 42.7% of the financial wealth.

So, what happens to the other 99%?

5/21/2010 12:37:56 PM

Quote :

"Please move somewhere without internet access"

5/21/2010 12:42:25 PM

Quote :

"But, as we established from the other thread, 1% of the people own 42.7% of the financial wealth. So, what happens to the other 99%?"

Well, duh. They get 57.3%.

5/21/2010 12:53:09 PM

Quote :

"...if you were always provided with exactly what you wanted/needed at any given moment, then you would be living a perfect life."

Except that things like sense of achievement and self-esteem can't really be provided. (I'm not suggesting your point is invalid, only providing a sort of caveat. It's theoretically possible that "exactly what you want" doesn't include anything that can't be provided, I just find it unlikely.)

[Edited on May 21, 2010 at 1:00 PM. Reason : ]

5/21/2010 12:57:29 PM

Quote :

""Please move somewhere without internet access""

The Danish government will probably limit how long God can use the internet and which websites he can access.

[Edited on May 21, 2010 at 1:02 PM. Reason : which]

5/21/2010 1:01:22 PM

^
lol


^^
Exactly. How can you get a decent sense of achievement in a statist utopia?
"OMG, I'M SUCH A HAPPY AND SAFE COG IN THE MACHINE -- AVERAGE, JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE! YAY!"

5/21/2010 1:01:52 PM

You're all drinking the American Kool-aid*


*Registered trademark of Kraft Foods

5/21/2010 1:03:40 PM

The hypothetical is impossible because someone would desire "not to be a part of this stupid system" and it would fall apart.

5/21/2010 1:06:12 PM

Heil God!

5/21/2010 1:18:24 PM

I don't know why God or his detractors are acting like Denmark is such a departure from the United States.

Its really only different by a matter of small degrees.

1) God says in Denmark govt pays for college.
Well, in the U.S. state and federal government also pay for college, just not as much (public universities, subsidized student loands, education grants, etc).

2) God says in Denmark, govt pays for health care.
Well, in the U.S., the government also pays for health care, just not as much (medicare, medicaid, tax credits, etc).

3) God says in Denmark, govt mandates paid maternity leave.
Well, in the U.S., the government also mandates up to 12 weeks of maternatity leaves, but it doesn't mandate paid maternatity leave (but that doesn't many employers don't provide it anyways).

There is really nothing on this list that the U.S. doesn't already do, its just that Denmark does more of it.

The only major difference is that people in Denmark actually do work much less and they have mandated vacation time while the U.S. does not. But I would personally chalk this up to cultural differences. It isn't like the Denmark government from on high and blessed its people with vacation mandates our of no where. Instead, like most of Europe, there is a strong labor movement and general preference to work less that made those mandates possible.

Really, this whole thread strikes me as silly. If Denmark is utopia for the reasons listed, then the U.S. really isn't that bad by comparison. If Denmark is the reincarnation of Soviet Russia for the reasons listed, well the U.S. must be a really fucking scary place too.

[Edited on May 21, 2010 at 1:35 PM. Reason : ``]

5/21/2010 1:26:16 PM

I like America. Even with all of its imperfections, it's the best.

5/21/2010 2:04:52 PM

Quote :

" 12 weeks of maternatity leaves, but it doesn't mandate paid maternatity leave "

3.)
It doesn't matter if employers choose to pay for maternatity leave, the simple fact is that they have the choice and it is not mandated by government. Which is a huge gap between socialismand democracy



[Edited on May 21, 2010 at 2:13 PM. Reason : [b]]

5/21/2010 2:06:15 PM

^lol

5/21/2010 2:10:54 PM

Denmark doesn't have a huge base of extreme conservatives holding them back

Quote :

" I say move to Denmark if it sounds like Utopia. leave the rest of us alone to succeed or fail based on our own merits."

Not very easy. Plus many people rather make their homeland better than simply abandon it. Its somewhat a nationalism thing. Theres no reason we can't be ahppier than denmark.

5/21/2010 2:14:33 PM

how dumb is it to stay in the "homeland" when you could move to paradise? that makes no fucking sense.

5/21/2010 2:23:00 PM

``

[Edited on May 21, 2010 at 2:24 PM. Reason : ``]

5/21/2010 2:23:51 PM

Quote :

"Denmark doesn't have a huge base of extreme conservatives holding them back"

Neither does America. America has a huge base of extreme liberals holding us back.

5/21/2010 2:28:15 PM

LOL

5/21/2010 2:28:25 PM

we ignore economies of scale ITT

5/21/2010 2:30:10 PM

we don't even have a communist politician. There is no such thing as extreme american liberals. I've never heard anyone suggest the end of private property.

5/21/2010 2:30:37 PM

^ I keep trying to respond to this, but I really have no clue what point you're trying to make



[Edited on May 21, 2010 at 2:48 PM. Reason : .]

5/21/2010 2:39:38 PM

Quote :

"Well, I would wager (and I think you would agree with me) that most people work hard at their jobs."

That's a good one.

5/21/2010 2:55:59 PM

Do you work hard at your job?

Why aren't you rich?

5/21/2010 2:57:14 PM

^ theres a difference between hard-working and financially responsible that I dont believe you're accounting for

5/21/2010 3:00:50 PM

Exactly.

First of all, I think that saying most people "work hard at their jobs" is a stretch. 40 hours per week isn't really working yourself to the bone.

Second, if you don't do the necessary things to put yourself in a position to land a halfway decent job, you can work as hard as you want at digging ditches, but you're only going to go so far in that field.

Quote :

" Well, I would wager (and I think you would agree with me) that most people work hard at their jobs. But, as we established from the other thread, 1% of the people own 42.7% of the financial wealth. So, what happens to the other 99%?"

a. They do fucking stupid things with their money, so it doesn't matter how hard they work and how much they make--they're not going to have anything to show for it at the end of the day. The more they make, the grander the scale on which they flush it down the toilet. I mean, look at our savings rates in this country. Hell, at least they're slightly positive again now.

b. $1,000,000 ain't shit. If you're at least middle class (and I don't even mean "upper middle class, making a 6-figure salary) and don't eventually become a millionaire, you're a moron. That was my statement--your response is damn near unrelated. At no point did I say that if you work hard at your job, you are ensured to make it to the top 1%. That's ridiculous.

Quote :

"Do you work hard at your job? Why aren't you rich?"

Takes time.




[Edited on May 21, 2010 at 3:16 PM. Reason : I don't know if you're deliberately disingenuous, or an idiot.]

5/21/2010 3:14:34 PM

Quote :

"Denmark, a place where you get weeks of work leave at the start of your employment, a place where college is paid for by the government, a place where healthcare is free, a place where you get paid paternity leave mandated by the government, a place where the tax rate is about 50%."

a place that is small enough to be able to manage all that shit.


...also there's something about Denmark - the people there are some of the nicest i've ever met

5/21/2010 3:25:51 PM

Quote :

" say move to Denmark if it sounds like Utopia. leave the rest of us alone to succeed or fail based on our own merits BAWWW incessantly about how the government is bringing us down."

5/21/2010 5:38:25 PM

Quote :

"a place that is small enough to be able to manage all that shit."

Probably has more to do with the homogeneous population.

90% of the population are of Danish descent. 80% of the population belongs the same religion.

5/21/2010 6:09:40 PM

i'm curious how economies of scale matter here.

(and why being a smaller (and poorer) country would make providing these services easier for denmark than america)

[Edited on May 21, 2010 at 6:35 PM. Reason : .]

5/21/2010 6:34:57 PM

^The economies of scale debate is quite an interesting one, I think this video is very relevant to this part of the discussion, especially if you read the thread title
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFPajU-d-Ek

5/21/2010 6:51:40 PM

^^^yep. in america its all about white privilege and keeping the browns out of the club.

5/21/2010 7:06:49 PM

Quote :

"Many of the people in the video were stunned to learn that we force our students to pay for their education, or that we force people to pay for their own healthcare. "

Call me an old fashioned Rockefeller or even crazy man, but I take pride in the fact that I am paying for my education and that I have my own health insurance. And I don't want weeks of work leave. I wanna work. I mean maybe I'm a bit strange but I don't wanna spend my life compiling sea shells at the coast when I can build things and do stuff and help people. Life is found in doing things that matter. When you live for the weekends and vacation days you miss out on so so many things...bring on the work...

5/21/2010 10:56:02 PM

i'm guessing you don't have kids. . . .

5/21/2010 11:39:04 PM

^^^ My comment had nothing to do with racism, mambatroll.

In addition to the small population already mentioned (both by number and geographically) already mentioned, large social programs should be easier to successfully implement when nearly the entire country shares a common ancestry and specific common religion.

In contrast to Denmark, the largest ancestry groups in the United States are German (17%), African American (13%), Irish (12%), and English (9%). The largest religious denominations are Catholicism (25%) and Baptist (16%).

There's a reason e pluribus unum is our national motto.

[Edited on May 22, 2010 at 7:30 AM. Reason : ]

5/22/2010 7:30:02 AM