the thermo section i'm in right now has around 20 or 30 people who have copies of the test. they usually just stick the test in their steam tables and bring it in with them, and then just copy line by line. i dont know any of them, and im not going to turn them in. usually i dont care if other people cheat as long as its not off my paper - i know it'll come back on them. but now its killing any chance at a curve. any ideas? (other than joining in) it looks like im just gonna have to suck it up and stop bitching.

12/13/2009 2:52:48 PM

the tests are the same year to year?

12/13/2009 3:40:43 PM

suck bro. life aint fair.

12/13/2009 3:44:27 PM

if it's boles then he doesn't curve anyway

12/13/2009 3:44:36 PM

lyons...the tests really arent that bad, but im greedy

12/13/2009 3:49:16 PM

you know what your options are. pick one.

12/13/2009 3:52:30 PM

get the old test and work the problems while studying and don't use them on the test?

12/13/2009 4:02:43 PM

^ holy shit what a solution!!!

boat117: do this ^... DUH man, come on.

12/13/2009 4:10:54 PM

nahhh, i had some friends in the CE342 soils class last semester that got involved with the soln manual fiasco even though they never used it. im definitely not trying to go down that road.

12/13/2009 4:11:30 PM

^ does not compute - if they never used it then there should have been no fiasco (at least not for any of your friends).

If you eliminate all of these options then quit your bitchin and have no curve.

[Edited on December 13, 2009 at 4:32 PM. Reason : .]

12/13/2009 4:31:23 PM

^^ lol... word gets around huh ?



i bet i know them.... and i'm probably betting that they were the idiots who copied directly off the solution manual instead of using it as a reference.

12/13/2009 4:45:06 PM

enough professors read tww where this will be taken care of by the next test hopefully

12/13/2009 5:14:27 PM

there is nothing wrong with letting the professor know, you're actually supposed to according to the integrity pledge you sign. i wouldn't name names, but i would probably let someone know.

12/13/2009 6:49:43 PM

^^ lyons has been doing this for at least four semesters, so i doubt it.

if you have access go look at the grade distributions for thermo for lyons sections compared to other sections, he gives all a's and b's. someone told me he doesn't even grade the finals, which i believe after the performance i gave on his and the solid A i somehow got.

12/13/2009 7:10:30 PM

visas should be revoked at the first sign of academic dishonesty...

[Edited on December 13, 2009 at 9:37 PM. Reason : .]

12/13/2009 9:35:36 PM

thermo with lyons is easy as fuck shut your mouth and quit being a bitch

12/14/2009 12:34:18 AM

^^ Don't you think it would be reasonable to at least await proof?

12/14/2009 1:24:52 AM

the university does not require proof. all the teacher has to do is say you cheated and if it's merely his word against yours w/o any evidence you can still be "convicted" or whatever.

12/14/2009 2:10:00 AM

Quote :

"there is nothing wrong with letting the professor know, you're actually supposed to according to the integrity pledge you sign. i wouldn't name names, but i would probably definitely let someone the prof know."

12/14/2009 6:49:48 AM

snitches get stitches.



nah, tell the prof.

12/14/2009 11:34:23 AM

If you want your degree to be worth something, you need to report this.

12/14/2009 12:34:04 PM

sit beside the guys with the test... and a few minutes in, look over and get the answers. then stand up and yell, "THESE GUYS HAVE A COPY OF THE TEST, OMFG! THEY'RE CHEATING!"

12/14/2009 12:47:00 PM

^

12/14/2009 1:12:36 PM

big deal so they are cheating; they are not learning anything and will only f*ck themselves later on when they get to harder classes. when they get to Thermo II they will be lost and confused, then you can laugh & point at them & do whatever else you want.

12/14/2009 1:15:13 PM

I don't buy the "they're only cheating themselves" logic. They'll end up getting a degree just like anyone else, and no one will ever know that they weaseled their way through a class. Maybe if more people would come forward when they see these egregious academic integrity violations, college degrees would be worth a lot more.

12/14/2009 3:05:14 PM

Quote :

"big deal so they are cheating; they are not learning anything and will only f*ck themselves later on when they get to harder classes. when they get to Thermo II they will be lost and confused, then you can laugh & point at them & do whatever else you want."

or they cheat their way through those courses as well... graduate... steal a job... be ineffective, inefficient, and possible produce subpar work that gets someone fired, injured, killed, etc.

12/14/2009 3:30:22 PM

cant cheat your way through an interview

12/14/2009 3:59:21 PM

Quote :

"cant cheat your way through an interview"

i think the issue is that you can cheat yourself into the interview and someone else out of it...

12/14/2009 7:17:20 PM

I'd tell the prof. Its time to get your grown man on. If you find out guys at work are embezzling money or are padding numbers to get a better bonus are you just gonna ignore that too? Thats your bonus money they're cheating you out of.

12/14/2009 8:23:02 PM

Cheaters never win

12/15/2009 1:03:03 AM

"to participate in none but honest enterprise"

12/15/2009 9:45:41 AM

Slip an anonymous note under the professors door. Tell him that you have reason to believe that some students may be cheating on tests by bringing old ones and slipping them into their steam tables and that it would be wise to have him and his TA's keep a close eye on people during the next test. If they get caught red handed in the middle of a test it is their own fault.

12/15/2009 11:39:52 AM

Read up on studies on cheating / ethics / etc. Unless you are really good, it does and always will catch up eventually.

I agree with the suggestion to slip an anonymous note to the professor stating to bring some extra proctors and to be extra alert. OR, I'm not sure how your class works, but the prof can also hand out any needed materials (steam tables?), and not allow folks to bring their own. Can be something the prof surprises folks with day of exam. That'll even out the curve as well.

12/15/2009 8:27:25 PM

It's a bad economy and jobs are limited. If you let these guys slide through, no crying when they bull$hit their way into a job that you could have had. Even worse with engineering, they'll probably design something that maims people. If State gets a reputation for bad engineers as graduates, it will devalue your degree.

12/16/2009 12:53:34 PM

Quote :

"If State gets a reputation for bad engineers as graduates, it will devalue your degree."

This is the best reason for turning those fuckers in.

12/16/2009 4:02:24 PM

Quote :

"cant cheat your way through an interview"

yeah, but i know several people who are smooth talkers and can get their way into undeserving jobs. are you really asked anything technical during an interview anyway? I've never had a full-time job, but i know for internships I was never asked much beyond how I work with others and why I think I would be a good asset.

12/16/2009 4:20:59 PM

i agree with everything said...a few problems though:

-i dont know any of their names, and even if i did, would have no way of proving anything

-i doubt they will be able to use the same method on the final (teachers dont give back final exams to their students, so no past tests should be available)

i guess the thread was more about bitching than solving the problem. i wish i would of heard what was going on earlier in the semester. im just ready to get done with the course now; im ce so i will be using very little of this in my future as far as i know.

12/16/2009 4:21:18 PM

y'all are putting way too much stock in thermo fucking 1

12/16/2009 4:59:44 PM

^so cheating in thermo II would be a much bigger issue than thermo I? i dont see how the difficultly of the class makes a difference in whats going on...

12/16/2009 5:08:23 PM

no, i'm talking about people who think that cheating in 301 will cause someone to "design something that maims people"

[Edited on December 16, 2009 at 5:11 PM. Reason : it's easy to tell who hasn't got out in the real engineering world yet]

12/16/2009 5:10:11 PM

Boils down to ethics. These guys are more likely to cut corners

12/16/2009 10:49:47 PM

Bad engineering will never get you hurt....


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/24/AR2009062400815.html
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32673955/

12/16/2009 11:37:42 PM

I sent the professor an e-mail linking him to this thread. I'm tired of the cunts in my department using every inch a professor gives them to take a foot. The professor allows us to put a list of equations and notes on a sheet of paper for an exam, and what do people do? They put example problems on it. Obviously, that is outside the bounds of intent on the sheet of paper. But having the ANSWERS to the exam, it doesn't get any more blatant than that. And what's sadder, is the professor doesn't give a shit.

Thank God for BCC.

12/17/2009 12:07:33 AM

I will be interested to see if your email gets any attention...

I emailed him Sunday morning asking if he had any office hours this week or times that he would be available and never got a response (I had a problem I was having trouble working out in the book, and was going to mention this situation while i was there). I didn't even get a simple "no".

12/17/2009 12:17:14 AM

Quote :

"are you really asked anything technical during an interview anyway?"

yes you can be asked; it's fair game considering you just spent 4 years in college learning the theory and should be able to prove it. my point was that someone who cheats their way through classes will NOT be able to talk their way through an interview where you are asked to answer a technical question or demonstrate your knowledge. for example, the company i am at now i was asked to draw a pump curve and explain it during my interview.

Quote :

"no, i'm talking about people who think that cheating in 301 will cause someone to "design something that maims people" [Edited on December 16, 2009 at 5:11 PM. Reason : it's easy to tell who hasn't got out in the real engineering world yet]"

exactly. when i read some of the replies i just

12/17/2009 7:59:43 AM

well, thermo 1 should still in my mind be a weed-out course. and if people are cheating, no one's getting weeded out except the people who choose not to cheat.

that being said, i think all tests should be open book/open note in any professional discipline. no one's going to blindfold you out in the field and say "think fast! draw a pump curve!"

12/17/2009 2:50:52 PM

in eng331 or w/e it is one guy's presentation was about changing the electrical senior design class, and he said that the system that you design is really important in EE and people often get asked to start one during interviews. i have no idea if that's true or not, though.

12/17/2009 4:49:12 PM

To the question of whether or not they ask technical questions in an interview, I was asked a few.

12/18/2009 9:30:34 AM