A few years ago I moved out of a local complex and management failed to return my security deposit or notify me of the damages within 30 days. I moved overseas approx 30 days after moving out of this property. After speaking with them a number of times, they failed to return my deposit and then went a step further and sold the debt to a collection agency.

I am now interested in filing a suit in small claims court but don't know exactly how to proceed. If it were just between me and the management agency I wouldnt be asking this question. However the involvement of the collection agency has me confused.

Does anyone have any experience with this?

11/24/2009 2:58:59 PM

i, too, am confused about how a collection agency is involved, considering there is no collection necessary on their part

11/24/2009 3:09:14 PM

As best as I can tell, the apartment management is used to people rolling over and paying simply because they say you owe money. I pushed back a little (politely) and rather than deal with me further, they turned it over to collections.

I'm not exactly sure how I should proceed with the collection agency and small claims since they have already reported the debt to the credit bureaus.

11/24/2009 3:12:35 PM

how could they report a debt to the credit bureaus? they owe YOU money...it shouldn't in any way hurt you...or are you saying the report is against the management?

11/24/2009 3:22:14 PM

I have no idea how they could report the debt to the collection agent but it sure enough shows up on my credit reports and Ive gotten a few phone calls from collections. Apparently the management company disagreed that they owed me money.

11/24/2009 3:25:58 PM

yeah, that's a little odd.

11/24/2009 3:26:20 PM

Sounds like the management thinks your security deposit doesn't cover the damages that you caused. Does this sound correct?

11/24/2009 3:27:58 PM

How much was the security deposit? How much did they say you owe for damages (I assume this is larger than the deposit)?

I would imagine you just go to small claims court with the apt management and one of the stipulations of the ruling should be that they correct the problem with the collections agency. I would think that they would have to buy back the debt from the collections agency since now you don't technically owe the apt any money (you owe the collections agency now, they probably paid 10 cents on the dollar for your debt). Basically if you are proven in the right, the apt management had no right to sell your debt, since it technically did not exist.

You may talk with a lawyer (like a free consultation or something) to see if you have a case to sue for the damage done to your credit due to the apartment's neglect for the law and selling your "debt" to a collections agency. It sounds like something this place does often though, they know they won't win so they just sell the "debt" to a collections agency and be done with it (or so they think).

11/24/2009 3:28:48 PM

they didn't fail to return your deposit in their eyes

they charged you for a bunch of bullshit that was greater than your security deposit. because of this, they think you owe them money

argue for a while, say the word lawyer, then maybe they'll listen. are you SURE you didn't leave the place messed up? hopefully you have pictures.

11/24/2009 3:30:04 PM

I think its bullshit that shady Apartment complexes can bully tenants into paying "damage fees" at the end of their lease even if they are unwarranted. The burden is then on the ex-tenant to pay up, spend the money to fight it in small claims, or say fuck you in which case the apt complex can fuck up your credit report.

The burden should be on the land owner to prove you owe money not on the tenant to prove that they are being inproperly charged.

11/24/2009 3:35:57 PM

agreed

11/24/2009 3:36:29 PM

Quote :

"The burden should be on the land owner to prove you owe money not on the tenant to prove that they are being inproperly charged. "

It is...They have to notify you of damages within 30 days. Failure to do so means they owe you your full deposit. Of course, the renter has to provide a means of contact.

11/24/2009 3:37:10 PM

^xwhatever It doesn't matter if he does, its after the 30 days and they failed to provide a list of damages.... there was a thread about this just a little while ago.

[Edited on November 24, 2009 at 3:38 PM. Reason : ^^]

11/24/2009 3:37:43 PM

^^but the damages can be complete bullshit and the burden is on the renter to prove that the apt complex is lying or exaggerating. should be the other way around where they have to submit (real) proof or renters dont have to pay

[Edited on November 24, 2009 at 3:54 PM. Reason : a]

11/24/2009 3:54:19 PM

Yes, they contend that I own them roughly $130 in addition to the security deposit. Now, this is BS since I left the apartment in good condition but they were putting the burden of prove on me. I asked to see receipts of the work done and an itemized list but this fell on deaf ears.

Regardless of this, they failed to notify me within 30 days as per law of the damages and Im entitled to my full security deposit. It just gets a bit more sticky with collection agency involved but I think that I will likely approach it as jethromoore suggests.

11/24/2009 4:14:11 PM

Quote :

"It is...They have to notify you of damages within 30 days. Failure to do so means they owe you your full deposit. Of course, the renter has to provide a means of contact."

Where did you see this? I ask because I've tried to find it and wasn't successful. I was the one who started the thread about this a while back. I've looked into this section of the law but it doesn't say anywhere the landlord has to return the full amount if a tenant doesn't receive the accounting within 30 days...Do you know this for a fact from past experiences?

My source:
http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/enactedlegislation/statutes/html/bychapter/chapter_42.html

article 6 has the security deposit stuff.

[Edited on November 24, 2009 at 4:34 PM. Reason : Article 6]

11/24/2009 4:32:10 PM

...42-55.

11/24/2009 5:13:16 PM

how many years ago did you live there?

11/24/2009 5:33:01 PM

I moved out in the summer of 2006

[Edited on November 24, 2009 at 7:26 PM. Reason : 6]

11/24/2009 7:25:03 PM

you might want to make sure you're still eligible to file in small claims court

11/24/2009 7:40:56 PM

its like 6 years i believe

11/24/2009 8:26:05 PM

source?

(cause NC has a lot of 3 year sols)

[Edited on November 24, 2009 at 8:28 PM. Reason : .]

11/24/2009 8:28:23 PM

Quote :

"42-52. Landlord's obligations. Upon termination of the tenancy, money held by the landlord as security may be applied as permitted in G.S. 42-51 or, if not so applied, shall be refunded to the tenant. In either case the landlord in writing shall itemize any damage and mail or deliver same to the tenant, together with the balance of the security deposit, no later than 30 days after termination of the tenancy and delivery of possession by the tenant. If the tenant's address is unknown the landlord shall apply the deposit as permitted in G.S. 42-51 after a period of 30 days and the landlord shall hold the balance of the deposit for collection by the tenant for at least six months. The landlord may not withhold as damages part of the security deposit for conditions that are due to normal wear and tear nor may the landlord retain an amount from the security deposit which exceeds his actual damages. (1977, c. 914, s. 1.) "

11/24/2009 10:12:55 PM

well yea but i just wanted to know what the statute of limitations was to bring a claim

cause this was in 2006. if it is a 3 year sol he can't really do anything anymore right?

11/25/2009 12:22:16 AM

Holy crap another thread for me to post words in!

Quote :

"but the damages can be complete bullshit and the burden is on the renter to prove that the apt complex is lying or exaggerating. should be the other way around where they have to submit (real) proof or renters dont have to pay"

This is why you walk through with the landlord before you leave, and take pictures as you go.


The applicable laws here fall under the The Tenant Security Deposit Act, with amendments made in senate bill 661 (passed this year).

If you file in small claims court as the plaintiff, I believe the burden of proof is on you. Your claim here is that the landlord did not notify you of damages as required, and did not return your security deposit. If it goes before the magistrate, the landlord will need to show that the work was done and costs were incurred to them. Property management companies are required by the North Carolina Real Estate commission to retain their files for a minimum of 3 years. If they're smart, they destroyed these files by now.

You may wish to begin by writing to them asking for an explanation of why you were not notified within 30 days of the damages, and cc the letter to the NCREC. That will move the wheel on their end one way or the other, as the REC will send them a letter of inquiry which will require them to explain their position.








[Edited on November 25, 2009 at 2:39 PM. Reason : .]

11/25/2009 2:36:58 PM

First, why the fuck did you let this linger for so long?

Second, and this is for others in the know. Isn't the security deposit typically the maximum liabilty on the renters end.

11/25/2009 3:06:51 PM

Quote :

"It just gets a bit more sticky with collection agency involved but I think that I will likely approach it as jethromoore suggests."

not really, the collection agency has to provide proof or delete the derogatory item.

http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/031224fcra.pdf

If you get your way with the apt complex it should be fairly easy to get the items deleted. A lot of times if you dispute the validity of the entry they will fail to respond in the maximum time frame (30 days) and therefore it will get deleted.

11/26/2009 12:28:52 AM

yeah, collections agency has to have proof or they have to remove it. otherwise, you can sue them for a shitload.


i dont know about what kind of judgement you can get that would get against the management agency. maybe something punitive for wrongfully sending it to collections along wiht other improper handling of deposits?

11/26/2009 1:02:04 AM

It would be best to go through all non-judicial channels first. This is a small amount of money, the filing fee is $65 which is already eating away at your small amount of money.

- NC Attorney Generals Office (complain against management company)
- Better Business Bureau against management company
- Dispute charges on your credit report via certified letter, demand removal or proof the debt is valid, dispute on all 3 reports, has to be in writing, have to have receipts for effective follow up for removal.
- Federal Trade Commission against management company
- Threaten the collection agency with bringing in an attorney if they do not delete the charges from credit reports (they can delete pretty much immediately, you do not have to wait 30 days) if they do not delete demand validation of the debt. (they probably do not anything validating the debt)


The best thing to do is write a bangin letter outlining exactly what happened and hit them with all of these actions at once. It will cost you nothing but a bunch of stamps (some you can do online) vs. $65 for small claims court min. All of this stuff puts a black mark on their reputation if they do not resolve it, also if they continue to rack up claims with the NC attny general they will get more personal attention from them than they want. It sounds like they are already in violation of tenant law for not sending you a statement.

Once you have tried all of this stuff and not gotten any results you might consider legal action. It looks better on your behalf if you have tried to haggle with them in good faith before dragging them in to court, its also cheaper.

Also before filing the court action send a demand letter certified mail (google can tell you what a demand letter is). Basically it is demanding a resolution prior to going to court. It gives them one last chance to resolve it outside of court. That would be a good document to bring in to court to prove you have already tried to resolve it and they are not responding or working with you.

11/26/2009 2:05:56 AM