http://www.freelibrary.org/closing/

Quote :

"We deeply regret to inform you that without the necessary budgetary legislation by the State Legislature in Harrisburg, the City of Philadelphia will not have the funds to operate our neighborhood branch libraries, regional libraries, or the Parkway Central Library after October 2, 2009."

One of the few functions that I think all governments should be a part of is that of providing information. In doing so, the government can assure that any individual who wishes to have knowledge of something can obtain that knowledge.

One would certainly think that somewhere in the budget of Philadelphia, there might just be enough slack and redundancy to keep (at the very least) the central library open, let alone the branches. Or, perhaps instead of throwing billions of taxpayer dollars at saving failed businesses that should have died, the federal government should have used some of that money to help keep useful public resources like libraries open.

[Edited on September 14, 2009 at 1:20 PM. Reason : asr]

9/14/2009 1:09:46 PM

When there are budgetary issues, the first things to be threatened or closed are the ones the public supports the most.

That makes people more willing to accept the tax increases in order to save their beloved programs.

Sure, the lawmakers could easily fix the problems by going after the dumb programs that nobody knows or cares about....but why do that when a stroke of the pen can get the public to be willing to pay more?

9/14/2009 1:17:58 PM

Not to mention that all the money thrown to state and local governments in the last stimulus. I wonder what sort of bullshit Philly/Pennsylvania has been spending it on at the expense of things like libraries?

Of course, it's a matter of time before LoneSnark or one of the other libertarians comes in here and explains how libraries should all be privately funded, not to mention another group of douches saying that libraries are outdated and pointless.

9/14/2009 1:24:01 PM

I like public libraries, but I highly doubt that's one of the things the public cares about the most.

It's like PBS... no one really watches it, but we keep it afloat because the people who do watch it benefit from it.

9/14/2009 1:24:41 PM

Well, as an ALA member I can safely say that we DID spend plenty to try to lobby to put more of that stimulus money towards libraries, but in the end, who do you think has more money to throw around for favors: the ALA or any number of other private industry-backed groups that have deep coffers to hire many more lobbyists? We aren't little, but we aren't the sort of institution a politician can point to and say "look at all the jobs I saved!", like they can if you throw it at, say, energy companies.

As for the actual funds: I know where I work, we don't get any until we apply for them. Had the Philly govt. applied for them, they surely would have gotten them as we did at the place I work. More than likely funding for the past fiscal year for the libraries ran out and Philly just can't stop bickering over which constituent groups to please first with their fund application.

9/14/2009 1:38:33 PM

Quote :

"Of course, it's a matter of time before LoneSnark or one of the other libertarians comes in here and explains how libraries should all be privately funded"

And the biggest argument in favor of provately funding libraries is:

Quote :

"as an ALA member I can safely say that we DID spend plenty to try to lobby to put more of that stimulus money towards libraries, but in the end, who do you think has more money to throw around for favors"

They spent money lobbying the government that they could have used to keep the libraries open.

9/14/2009 1:51:36 PM

Quote :

"They spent money lobbying the government that they could have used to keep the libraries open."

Uh...the ALA is funded by individual private donations from all sorts of people and organizations, not libraries.

I know what you think: could they just use that private donor money to fund the libraries? Well, the ALA took in 33.5 million last year, and it looks like the school I work for will have a budget shortfall of just about that much next year, so congrats, you could keep open one college.

[Edited on September 14, 2009 at 1:58 PM. Reason : /]

9/14/2009 1:56:27 PM

Quote :

"They spent money lobbying the government that they could have used to keep the libraries open."

They wouldn't have to spend money to get private funds? Fundraisers ain't free. Begging potential donors ain't free.

9/14/2009 1:59:42 PM

Quote :

"Philly to close public libraries"

Blame the Internet

9/14/2009 2:05:12 PM

The citizens of Philadelphia can now legitimately claim they want their America back.

This is pathetic.

9/14/2009 2:05:30 PM

Yes, but you see, I have come up with this hypothetical situation here that would never happen in real life that explains how every public library just needs to get some rich sugar daddies...or be book rental stores. you have no right to your blockbuster card, why your library card?

^^well, not everyone has a kindle and not every book is digi...hey, wait, what's the last book you read?

[Edited on September 14, 2009 at 2:09 PM. Reason : .]

9/14/2009 2:07:03 PM

Because it's a form of state-issued identification.

9/14/2009 2:08:27 PM

^^dunno but i probably googled an electronic copy of it

whens the last time you looked up somebody's number in a paper phone book instead of looking them up online?

whens the last time you bought a print edition of a newspaper?

I look at this as the same thing


[Edited on September 14, 2009 at 2:17 PM. Reason : .]

9/14/2009 2:16:12 PM

except that libraries lots of things that aren't available electronically (especially not freely available)

9/14/2009 2:22:49 PM

but arent various books, articles, newspapers, etc being digitized every single day? print media in general is dying

9/14/2009 2:25:32 PM

sure they are. we're still a long way away from coming close to the collection offered by a good library. people could purchase books without libraries as well. that doesn't mean that libraries are a bad idea. and again, much of the electronic "book" content out there is not free. libraries are not really free, but the cost to the community of buying a copy (or a handful of copies) for a library where you can read the book and return it, is much smaller than everyone buying their digital copy of the book. not to mention, many don't have computers.

this is all in addition to the fact that libraries play a large civil service role beyond just providing books. go into the cameron village library on a weekday afternoon and look at the bustle of activity. there are job training programs, children's reading programs, people who don't have internet/computer access using those facilities. to people with internet access and computers, the library doesn't seem like the most relevant place in the world. there are those who rely on the library for far more than the newest danielle steele.

9/14/2009 2:33:02 PM

With the amount of items out there to be digitized, you won't see everything shit significantly for a long time. People see what's happening w/ news and assume it's universal, but if that was the case, we'd have lost bookstores to libraries or the music industry to recording media long long ago.

9/14/2009 2:45:36 PM

"but arent various books, articles, newspapers, etc being digitized every single day? print media in general is dying"

The free internet access provided by libraries is the only way some people can afford to go online for research.

Here is an interesting take on a library... the Carrboro Cybrary:
http://www.co.orange.nc.us/library/cybrary/

Quote :

"The Cybrary is a branch of the Orange County Public Libraries. We provide access to computers, wireless internet, bestsellers, audiobooks, and periodicals. The Cybrary is located in downtown Carrboro in the Carrboro Century Center. Parking is available in the lot across Greensboro Street and in any of the public parking lots around downtown."

They tried to shut it & several others down but the community signed real & online petitions, there was a facebook group lead by Mike Nelson the former mayor of Carrboro who also went on local media to drum up support, discussion on a local politics blog for Orange County, and in the end I believe they saved it. I think they efforts to save the other libraries are on going, and I'm not sure how many will be closed, but the notion of a cybrary fits in very much with the idea of where libraries may be going in the future & I'm glad it was saved.

9/14/2009 3:07:45 PM

Quote :

"When there are budgetary issues, the first things to be threatened or closed are the ones the public supports the most. That makes people more willing to accept the tax increases in order to save their beloved programs."

Quote :

"The citizens of Philadelphia can now legitimately claim they want their America back. "

From whom? The Philadelphia City Council has 14 Democratic members and 3 Republicans. This isn't an essential cut, like GOP said, this is a political tactic.

Politicians, here, are the enemy. Not budget cuts.

9/14/2009 3:26:30 PM

In theory, this is terrible.

In practice, public libraries becoming internet cafes for the homeless. And they aren't exactly using the internet to discuss politics, if you know what I mean.

[Edited on September 14, 2009 at 3:38 PM. Reason : ]

9/14/2009 3:38:22 PM

Quote :

"When there are budgetary issues, the first things to be threatened or closed are the ones the public supports the most. That makes people more willing to accept the tax increases in order to save their beloved programs. Sure, the lawmakers could easily fix the problems by going after the dumb programs that nobody knows or cares about....but why do that when a stroke of the pen can get the public to be willing to pay more?"

9/14/2009 3:49:19 PM

i also agree that it's a political move. i don't know anything about the pennsylvania state budget, but it seems like this is just a ploy by the library to make sure that their importance is noticed by the public before the budget gets passed. the post on their website says that these things will happen unless funding gets passed before oct. 1.

9/14/2009 3:57:13 PM

^^hey man, don't back down. tell us how the ALA could have used that money to privately run the libraries. fundraisers? bake sales? a huge kegger? i'm all ears.

maybe boyz II men could have a benefit concert.

9/14/2009 3:58:53 PM

I believe he'll tell you that if Americans had to pay less taxes (from not having to support libraries) then they'd donate more to the ALA. Of course, this is a preposterous idea since most people have never heard of the ALA and their tax savings would be so negligible, but it's what he'll say.

Or perhaps he'll tie it into the larger theme and say that if all these government services were cut and taxes were cut accordingly, much of that money would then be donated. Which may be true. It would be donated to whatever charity Angelina Jolie is promoting that week. As long as she gets around to the ALA before your funds run out you'll be fine.

Or he'll just say that if the public can't support libraries through donations then they'll have to charge money, which of course defies the purpose and allows Barnes & Noble to start a rental business that nobody will use.

[Edited on September 14, 2009 at 8:27 PM. Reason : ]

9/14/2009 8:26:01 PM

libraries are obsolete anyway. It would be much more cost efficient to implement public wifi and just give out unwanted CRT computers and network card vouchers.

9/14/2009 8:29:46 PM

um speak for yourself. i have 4 books due the 17th...

9/14/2009 9:39:53 PM

i used the ncsu library all the time

the brooklyn library I live by is huge and awesome but I dont use it much.

9/14/2009 9:50:00 PM

GrumpyGOP, I would tell you that society feels the need to support such institutions and if government refused to do it, then the rest of us would, regardless of tax policy. If you check your history books, libraries existed in America before governments started paying for them. But that is my opinion, for all I know the average American could care less if libraries existed and only manage to fund them because it always feels like they are spending someone else's money when they do so.

Not going to address the fact that when it comes to government budgeting, the first programs to be cut during a shortfall are those that everyone supports when there are vast office buildings full of bureaucrats whose sole job is licensing fortune tellers and wrestlers?

9/14/2009 10:55:23 PM

how is he supposed to check his history books if the library shuts down?

9/14/2009 11:23:46 PM

Thats sad.

We use our local public library at least twice a month, probably once a week.

I dont see the need to buy books if I can borrow them for free.

I would have expected libraries to become very popular places given the recession, but I guess you can't fix stupid.

9/14/2009 11:26:51 PM

Quote :

"If you check your history books, libraries existed in America before governments started paying for them."

So did Harvard. Can you afford to go there?

Yes, I gather that libraries existed, but my guess is that only those in a few well-off, "enlightened" cities could generally go to them; further, that wherever they existed in poorer communities, the selection was a good deal more limited.

I may be incorrect in my guess, but I doubt it.

Quote :

"Not going to address the fact that when it comes to government budgeting, the first programs to be cut during a shortfall are those that everyone supports..."

Yeah, yeah, others have covered the point already. Some version of it applies to private charity projects as well. When it comes to private budgeting, the first programs to be cut will be the ones that don't have star power behind them -- and the star power is going to go where the popularity is.

I used Angelina Jolie as an example, but the principle applies. This is an example of government popularity counterbalancing private popularity. Politicians win points for sending money to libraries and other programs in their constituencies, and often lose points for sending money to starving kids in Africa. Private individuals (often celebrities) win points for helping starving African kids, but get less notice for dumping money into libraries.

Sure, Bono would be popular within a community if he gave millions to its school system, but that helps little with his worldwide popularity (which matters to him more). Representative Bob is popular within his constituency (which matters to him tremendously) for financing local education, including libraries, but gets voted out if he gives too much to foreigners (though it might make the rest of the world smile on him).

9/15/2009 1:57:13 AM

While I oppose taxpayers being forced to subsidize other people's reading habits, shutting down public libraries seems a bit too dramatic. I smell a plea for tax increases coming down the pike.

Whenever budgets are tight, politicians threaten to cut out the most needed/popular services first. The ones that will affect everyday people the quickest.

In N. Carolina, state lawmakers threaten firing more and more teachers...all while taxpayers are paying for the construction of a multi-million dollar "green" pier on the coast.

9/15/2009 12:06:22 PM

well if you visit a library as a taxpayer you're not really subsidizing others reading habits.

9/15/2009 12:11:45 PM

Did not we also just buy a $12 million dollar mountain?

9/15/2009 11:57:20 PM

I dont see the need to buy books if I can borrow download them for free.

9/16/2009 12:13:25 AM

i bet you can't download those 4 books i have due on the 17th

9/16/2009 12:37:47 AM

my thing is why waste money on libraries when for less than the cost of one library you can have unlimited copies of every book ever made available instantly everywhere forever.

9/16/2009 12:44:42 AM

well this is a perfect time to try! sounds like a neat idea to me. i mean the legacy costs wouldn't be that much. surely less than keeping a library open. i'd wonder about copyright stuff though cause then no one would buy stuff. i like ur snake. wanna go out?

9/16/2009 12:55:55 AM

not everyone has a computer or wants to read on a computer.

also many people use libraries for internet access.

9/16/2009 7:58:03 AM

Quote :

"for less than the cost of one library you can have unlimited copies of every book ever made available instantly everywhere forever."

i'm sure lots of companies would like to know what sort of magic you would use to do this so cheaply.

[Edited on September 16, 2009 at 8:06 AM. Reason : .]

9/16/2009 8:02:25 AM

Quote :

"also many people use libraries for internet access"

most fast food restaurants have free wi fi

its 2009, half the homeless people in charlotte have cell phones

the printing press has been around like 600 years...seems like there are much better options nowadays

"Philadelphia to close down public outhouses in favor of public bathrooms with indoor plumbing"

HOW DARE YOU!!1

[Edited on September 16, 2009 at 12:59 PM. Reason : .]

9/16/2009 12:55:32 PM

Books have several advantages over digital forms of media.

Books require no electricity, require no WiFi, don't break as easily, are sturdier and can be given to small children to chew on and develop language skills from an early age. Just to name a few that come to mind.

See, I don't think that this means we should abolish all digital forms of media and stick with books. That would be as asinine as saying we should abolish books because digital media is so easy to distribute.



[Edited on September 16, 2009 at 1:07 PM. Reason : PA]

9/16/2009 1:06:55 PM

^^

1) got anything the backup that assertion, because my experience has been only a handful have free wi-fi, and of those that do, most of them don't take too kindly to people coming in a spending a few hours using it.

2) cell phone != computer or internet access, unless you are suggesting that the homeless with cell phones have iPhones and Pres

3) They aren't replacing these libraries with anything, they are just closing them down.

For a free, democratic, capitalist society to succeed, people MUST have access to information if they are willing to seek it out. Libraries fulfill an important function in society, and until there is something to replace that function, we should continue to support their existence.

[Edited on September 16, 2009 at 1:14 PM. Reason : dfg]

9/16/2009 1:12:53 PM

you really think somebody who works at bojangles gives a fuck if somebody is leaching their wi-fi?

and i'm not against libraries, i'm just saying they're on their way out

and the cell phone comment is to point out that digital technology in 2009 is not just for the super rich...or even the people who have a home

ps: outhouses have some advantages over indoor plumbing...cheaper, dont need running water, etc

the govt is already willing to pay for old people to get digital converters since they are so fucking old they still use rabbit ears on their tv...and computers are dirt cheap...it doesnt seem like as big or expensive a transition as some of you are making it out to be

[Edited on September 16, 2009 at 1:23 PM. Reason : .]

9/16/2009 1:18:04 PM

Your outhouse analogy is flawed, quit using it. Outhouses are unsanitary and are horrible at handling the logistics of waste disposal. They weren't replaced by indoor plumbing because indoor plumbing is way easier to distribute or all the young people were hip on indoor plumbing.

Quote :

"it doesnt seem like as big or expensive a transition as some of you are making it out to be"

What transition are you suggesting exactly? Convert all books to digital media and do away with them? Or just libraries?

[Edited on September 16, 2009 at 1:26 PM. Reason : .]

9/16/2009 1:24:22 PM

^^ When they aren't buying anything? Absolutely. What you think Bojangles has free wi-fi out of the goodness of their hearts?

And what exactly would we be transitioning to? What do we have right now that would replace libraries? The fact of the matter is, all the tech for digitizing them may be there, but the laws, the man power and the resources are not.

9/16/2009 1:35:20 PM

I'm sure an owner or manager would care about it, but I highly doubt an average fast food employee would

And I don't know what exact transition, this just doesn't really surprise me...libraries get a lot less use nowadays than they used to because many people can use online resources...print newspaper sales are way down thanks to being able to get the same news online, for free...i'm personally not a fan of e-books, but they have a market which cuts into print sales...i also see a lot less people in bookstores nowadays but thats just anecdotal

again i'm not saying libraries don't have a purpose and aren't a good thing, i just expect more and more transition from print to digital, and eventually i expect libraries to be glorified servers and electronic databases

9/16/2009 1:56:12 PM

Before long, most cities will broadcast free wifi everywhere. Philly had one way back in 2006. It actually could be done pretty quickly in most cities nationwide with stimulus money already set aside specifically for this.

You don't have to read from the screen. There are fancy ebook readers. Books can also be printed or acessed from any mp4 player or smartphone. Also you can tote around all of your books in your pocket.

9/16/2009 2:02:17 PM

I'm sure you don't mind your toddler chewing on your Kindle, but I'll stick to books for this purpose. Also, I'd be curious if there are any case studies on teaching children to read solely from digital media and whether this is even possible in a classroom setting.

9/16/2009 2:08:42 PM

^^this all presumes that someone has a device upon which to access the internet

9/16/2009 2:13:52 PM