Yeah, I'm pretty financially strapped, and this has been a lifelong ambition...to get my private pilot cert.

Ground school is affordable...however, plane rental and instruction are not. Anybody got any good lines on good flight training and plane rental at a good rate? My big ass is hard-pressed to fit in a Cessna 152 with another normally sized human being.

Now, one step further...would any of you have a line on somebody who would likely swap services? Maybe somebody who's an A&P mechanic that needs some smart grunt help (because they'd have to sign off on whatever I did...as long as they properly supervise and inspect). Or maybe an instructor that needs other work done. Speak ye, TWW.

6/25/2009 11:42:19 AM

I'm not sure "really cheap" is something you want when it comes to aircraft rental or instruction... That's how we wound up with that crash in Buffalo.

6/25/2009 11:45:22 AM

I don't mean shitty. I mean reasonable. I'm pretty knowledgeable when it comes to anything mechanical or aviation...and know a bit about what's safe and what's not. Dad used to fly, and he's taught me lots...sadly, he quit flying when I was 5 or 6. That whole responsible family thing, combined with shitty USDA income.

And for what it's worth, thought they are entirely different affairs...I've been building and flying model airplanes for about 27 years.

6/25/2009 12:05:57 PM

I would recommend going out to Johnston County's airport for flight time. They should be cheaper than RDU (rental rates), even after you factor in gas/time involved driving out there. When my dad was a CFI out of RDU, he would fly his students to Jo. Co. airspace because it was less congesited and his students got more from their sessions out there. That was an hour or so easy wasted just on flying out to begin the real learning session, although I guess you could log all that flightime... So definitely check them out if you are in the Raleigh area.


[Edited on June 25, 2009 at 12:20 PM. Reason : .]

6/25/2009 12:18:08 PM

Empire Aviation at Lake Ridge Aeropark in durham is where I went, and I would strongly recommend. Paul's planes are older, but well maintained, and very affordable. I think his straight back 172 (has a Stohl kit and is super fun to fly) is around $85 an hour. Thats as cheap as its going to get around here. When I trained in 2004, I believe the 152s were 65, the 172 were 75, and the Cherokee was 80. I think its been bumped up about 15 an hour for each.

empire-aviation.com

You will need to leave him a message. He will call you back.

The awesome thing about Paul is he will let you take planes without hourly minimums, and with some advance notice, you can take them on long haul trips. If I hadnt purchased a partnership in the Arrow, I would still be flying with him. Its also on a grass strip. Great experience for learning and improving flying skill you wont get at RDU.

On a side note... Not a good idea to take flying lessons if you can barely get by. Will take you a lot longer. I knocked out my PPL 2/13 to 5/14 in 04 in 42 hours. Cheapest way to do it, or you'll spend a lot of time re-learning between lessons.

[Edited on June 25, 2009 at 12:33 PM. Reason : .]

6/25/2009 12:26:02 PM

save up a few grand, then offer to pay a lump sum upfront. most instructors will give you a good deal with that (in fact, I got about $1,000 off of mine).

6/25/2009 2:23:38 PM

How would you calculate that though, being it takes everyone a different number of hours? Carzin's 42 hours is almost unheard of, it's so low.

Would they just say, okay 6 grand and if you take 80 hours that's ok?

6/25/2009 2:28:23 PM

yeh, you agree to a set number of hours. I got my ppl in 43 hours, but paid for 55 for rental + instruction. so once I had my ppl the instructor offered further instruction or rental time, all out of my lump sum. I went ahead and did some more night instruction, got my complex rating, and high performance rating. after that he gave me about 12-15 hours of rental time to finish out my payment

6/25/2009 3:09:02 PM

zxappeal is gonna be like the crop duster dude from independence day

6/25/2009 3:16:15 PM

6/25/2009 3:19:40 PM

Delta, if you have the time (very important) and money (more important), then getting your PPL in under 50 hours should not be a huge deal. I think I am a good pilot, but far from the best. There have been many better than me (Im sure) that took 60+ hours to get their PPL. The difference is that they spread it out, and didnt commit the time and money needed to churn it out. I think you have the funds available to pay for 50 hours wet (about $4250 at 85 an hour) and 25 hours instruction ($875- I think Paul is 35 an hour, but it may have gone to 40), you should be able to get through everything for under $6000.

6/25/2009 3:25:37 PM

Dude, Empire is right on my way home. I've stopped by Lake Ridge a time or so to check things out, but it's not like there's always somebody there.

I'd actually prefer to fly out of a grass strip field. Straightback 172 is pretty old! I'd really like to get taildragger time if I ever do get my ticket. They got any out there for rent?

I'm kind of stoked about this.

6/25/2009 4:10:49 PM

The 172 I believe is a 69. Super condition (last I saw it). with the Stohl kit, the thing will take off under 50 knots

Paul doesnt have any tail draggers, and I dont know of anyone that will rent them. There are plenty on the field, however. You'll have to let Paul know that Ryan sent you if you end up flying with him. Just buys me a little good will when I need to call him for some free advice

His ground school is pretty cheap as well.

6/25/2009 4:28:04 PM

You can always do self taught ground school to save a couple hundred bucks. I used the Gleim kit and it worked real well.

6/25/2009 8:01:45 PM

i'm taking ground school right now at wings of carolina flying club. they're at the sanford lee county airport (about 10 miles this side of sanford). the ppl class is great, and reasonable cost. $200 for the class plus $160 for all the books and supplies.

you can see their rental and instructor rates here- http://wingsofcarolina.org/aircraft.php

i think they said the avg number of hours for someone getting their ppl is 65.

6/25/2009 8:24:11 PM

that is a good deal. and 65 hours now??? I thought it was about 55 when I got mine (2004)...

6/25/2009 11:06:51 PM

Quote :

"save up a few grand, then offer to pay a lump sum upfront."

Yep. That's the biggest way I know of (other than shopping around different FBOs, particularly those in small-town or rural airports instead of, say, RDU) to save money.

You might could also find a freelancing CFI with his own airplane. I bet that would be cheaper than an FBO. Search http://www.barnstormers.com under the "training" section, or maybe "services".

Quote :

"How would you calculate that though, being it takes everyone a different number of hours? Carzin's 42 hours is almost unheard of, it's so low. Would they just say, okay 6 grand and if you take 80 hours that's ok? "

No, you probably wouldn't be paying upfront for your PPL--you'd be buying block time. Many places will give you a 10-20% discount if you pre-pay in, say $1000-2000 blocks.

Quote :

"I'd really like to get taildragger time if I ever do get my ticket. They got any out there for rent?"

There are a few. Kinda tough to find, but you'll see a place here or there with a Cub or a Champ or something for rent. There's a guy in Beaulaville who rents a Citabria, too. Taildraggers are very expensive to insure. Rental aircraft are very expensive to insure. Rental taildraggers have GOTTA be wicked expensive to insure, to the point that it's prohibitive for most people/FBOs.


By the way, I'd study up and pass the FAA written exam before I ever even started with the flying part. Get that sucker out of the way where it isn't a holdup at the end. http://www.exams4pilots.org is a good, free way to study specifically for the test (although no replacement for legit ground school).


Hit me up if you have any other questions, Dan.

Also, I have cash money with your name on it if your financial holdup is a matter of finding work rather than a matter of finding time to do said work.

[Edited on June 25, 2009 at 11:08 PM. Reason : ]

6/25/2009 11:07:49 PM

I used triple W airstrip out in the Raleigh/garner area back in the day when I got mine. Keith was my instructor, I think, he was pretty cool I guess?

That was back in like 2002ish, so I don't even know if that place/instructor is still around!

6/26/2009 7:35:32 AM

I second Empire Aviation out at Lake Ridge. I'm training out there right now with Paul and a couple of other instructors and it's been great! Definitely one of the cheapest places around and coming in just over the tree line for a soft field landing on a 3000' grass strip can't be beat. I definitely echo what everyone else says about saving up a large sum of money and going that route, but if you really must get in the cockpit now and don't have $6000+ sitting around, I recommend Pilot Finance. They have an awesome loan package that I personally use and I pay around $150 a month and they cut Empire a check for the lessons. If you can though, save up for it instead of financing it, as it will obviously save you money in the long run.

6/26/2009 11:37:23 AM

you have gotta be shitting me. financing flying lessons? besides the fact that it's a frivolous thing that shouldn't be financed, what do you do once you get your license? You couldn't afford to fly before, and you won't be able to afford to fly after. You can't keep financing flight time forever.


I don't know that it's necessary to save up $5-6k and buy enough block time to get your PPL. Check and see if you get any better deal doing that than you would just buying $1-2k of block time. Of course, if you do this, start saving for the 2nd block as soon as you put the money on the table for the 1st block, so you have enough money to keep flying.

I DO know that it's an absolutely absurd idea to take out a loan to get your PPL.

[Edited on June 26, 2009 at 4:47 PM. Reason : ]

6/26/2009 4:46:22 PM