I've been annoyed in general with TWC for the past decade, and things don't appear to be getting any better. Wilson's had an awesome fiber-optic network infrastructure for television, voice, and data. I want to know: What will it take to get a network functionally-equivalent to Wilson's Greenlight here in Raleigh?

Admittedly, Raleigh is larger than Wilson (134 sq mi [City of Raleigh's number] > 23.4 sq mi [Wikipedia's number]), but all we're talking about is a $28M bond to get Wilson's ~47,000 residents off of the ground. Raleigh's population of ~381,000 would seem to denote that we should be able to get something similar for less than $250M. And even though the money was raised via bonds in Wilson and could be done similarly here, I bet there's more than a few people who would be willing to pay additional taxes (property or otherwise) for something like Greenlight. "Each 1 cent of property tax [on every $100 of property value] generates $4.7 million of revenue for the City."

There are other barriers, to be sure. TWC and AT&T are making significant [well, at least for them...] infrastructure upgrades here, and I'm sure they won't take kindly to a city-based initiative. But there are terrific political answers to those kinds of problems, too: a city-based network means jobs. And not just any jobs, but high-tech jobs - the kind that we in RTP are supposed to be known for. It means additional revenue: even connecting only an eighth of the city's residents, using the average pricing structure ($100/month) as Wilson, then Raleigh would be taking in $57.15M per year! Wilson's FY09 budget has their costs listed as 62% of their revenue - meaning Raleigh would be collecting ~$21.6M per year after costs [and once any debt is paid]. This effectively means that it is costing the City $21.6 million dollars a year to not be running this utility! Yes, these are simplistic calculations, but the principles behind them stand.

I'm tired of being taken advantage of by the broadband companies. From a business and financial standpoint, I think that it makes sense for the City to roll its own services. What do you think?

-bigginal

Sources:
City of Wilson FY2009 Budget: http://www.wilsonnc.org/attachments/pages/400/FY2009%20Bdg%20Complete%20File.pdf
City of Raleigh FY2009 Budget-in-Brief: http://www.raleighnc.gov/portal/server.pt/gateway/PTARGS_0_2_135105_0_0_18/Budget-in-Brief.pdf
Greenlight Bundle Pricing: http://www.greenlightnc.com/home/packages/
Wilson's population and geographic stats on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilson_nc


[Edited on April 22, 2009 at 5:05 PM. Reason : Sources]

4/22/2009 4:44:57 PM

carlface

Quote :

"I'm tired of being taken advantage of by the broadband companies."

So switch, I'm saving about $800 this year over what I was paying to Time Warner Cartel for more consistently fast internet, more HD channels, and a faster more reliable DVR than TWCs pos 8300hdc.



[Edited on April 22, 2009 at 4:55 PM. Reason : .]

4/22/2009 4:53:18 PM

Why the carlface? Seriously this is the first I've heard of Greenlight.

4/22/2009 4:57:51 PM

Quote :

"So switch"

To what? TWC is the only broadband access universally available. DSL is available, at least in most areas, but that only gets you data (and voice, if you decide not to go with naked DSL). The best you can hope for as an alternative to TWC is U-Verse, and that isn't available everywhere. It [data access in general] is similarly expensive, even.

The problem is a lack of choice. The vacuum presented by this lack of choice is a prime opportunity for an ISP to succeed - particularly one that has the backing of the City.

-bigginal

[Edited on April 22, 2009 at 5:10 PM. Reason : Formatting adjustment]

4/22/2009 5:05:42 PM

Wont happen. City of Raleigh has a monopoly with TWC. ATT is getting around it using "phone" service for UVerse. Theres an article posted on the TWC meter thread also saying how TWC and embarq are suing Wilson over this.

What ever happened to that other town out west or north (I forget) that had started doing this and got sued?

4/22/2009 5:28:09 PM

posted by gs7 in the twc metering thread:

Time Warner, Embarq Fight to Outlaw 100 Mbps Community Broadband in Wilson, NC
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=14934#cmt434908

4/22/2009 5:54:23 PM

Quote :

"What will it take to bring Greenlight to Raleigh?"

~3-5 billion dollars

4/22/2009 6:22:33 PM

Quote :

"Wont happen. City of Raleigh has a monopoly with TWC."

What you're referring to is the franchise agreement that the City of Raleigh had with TWC. It no longer exists.

Quote :

"Theres an article posted on the TWC meter thread also saying how TWC and embarq are suing Wilson over this."

You'll also find that those companies aren't suing Wilson - they're lobbying the State of NC to declare Greenlight unfair - in the process cripple or ban the service it provides. They're also trying to prevent Greenlight from receiving any stimulus funding.

Consider that any city-wide initiative has to be fought on two fronts - getting the City government to approve it, and also to get it past the lobbying of other companies - TWC, AT&T, Embarq, whoever. An implied portion of my question (which I'm now making explicit) is, how do you keep such an initiative safe from such efforts by others to prevent it?

I, for one, already have drafted a letter for my congressmen declaring my opposition to the bill in the Senate. Writing your congressman, while a good start, probably won't be enough - what else will it take?

Also, darkone, why do you say it will take 3-5 billion dollars? Can you give any reason for announcing a number that high? And will money alone be enough?

-bigginal

4/22/2009 6:39:43 PM

i swear, your signature looks like vaginal

4/22/2009 6:58:05 PM

Raleigh couldn't, but Apex and Wake Forest have existing municipal owned electric utility infrastructure that could be used for supporting a fiber optic network. However, they want to make sure it actually works in Wilson before they jump into the waters. The Electricities members have screwed themselves over so badly in the past with debt and risk management that they can't afford to jump in on another project that could hurt them financially.

4/22/2009 10:28:30 PM

Quote :

"To what? TWC is the only broadband access universally available. DSL is available, at least in most areas, but that only gets you data (and voice, if you decide not to go with naked DSL)."

They'll give you $225 right now to switch from TWC to DSL. Their 7Mbps has hit peak throughput more consistently than TWCs 8Mbps service EVER did and I am paying basically the same price, or $18.75 less per month considering the $225. If I really had the desire, I could switch to Earthlink now, get their 8Mbps service at $30 for the first 6 months and then $5 cheaper than TWC for the next 6 months after that. So, just on the internet alone I'd be coming out around $350-400 cheaper on the year to switch from TWC.

Quote :

"The best you can hope for as an alternative to TWC is U-Verse, and that isn't available everywhere. It [data access in general] is similarly expensive, even."

Eh? Dish Network and DirectTV are viable alternatives. I switched to dish and am paying $22 month for the first 6 months of service, $39 month thereafter for 95% of the channels I'd like to have, and for 100% of the channels that I'd say I need. On top of that, their 722 HDDVR destroys TWCs, their pictures look a little better, and their customer service mauls TWC. Oh, I got $75 in rebates for new service.

I was paying $134 month before the switch, $1600 per year. After the switch I'll pay a total of $582 on the year for better service, it could be about $100 less if I wanted to hassle with switching to Earthlink right away. I hate TWC as much as the next guy, and I think that we still pay too much for internet in this country, but to whine that there are no alternatives is just ignorant.

[Edited on April 22, 2009 at 11:01 PM. Reason : .]

4/22/2009 11:00:22 PM

^Please do not compare a broadband internet connection to anything satellite ... they are not the same.

4/22/2009 11:50:48 PM

he didn't. he compared DSL to TWC, DSL is cheaper. he compared Satelite TV to TWC, STV is cheaper

4/23/2009 12:24:03 AM