I've got a 2003 4Runner and I I lifted it by swapping out all of the springs and shocks.

As I was replacing the parts, I couldn't get the rear shocks off, so I just stuck in the aftermarket (old man emu) springs and worked on the front suspension.
I drove around for a couple days with the OME front and only the OME springs in the back with the factory rear shocks.
The ride was great, but the factory shocks would fully extend too easily due to the longer rear springs.
I finally swapped out the rear shocks, so now I have OME springs and shocks all around.

The front springs are only a little stiffer than factory and I like the front setup a lot.
However, the rear springs are 260 lb/in and the factory ones are 180 lb/in. The OME rear shocks are also stiffer than factory.

The ride is a little jarring on poorly paved roads and the higher spring rate in the rear means I probably didn't gain any flex.

My question is...if I want a better ride, should I:
-get softer rear shocks and keep the OME rear springs?
-get softer rear springs and keep the OME rear shocks?
-or, swap out the shocks and springs?

I guess I want to know if the harsh ride is due to the shocks or the springs.

4/7/2009 1:26:06 PM

the harsh ride could be due to either. the shocks' damping rate is probably designed for the spring rate (OME or stock), which is why both the spring and the shock are stiffer.

i would try to avoid mixing stock components with the ome components due to the fact that the shocks' damping rate will not match the spring rate. that could reduce the life of the shock or give you odd handling characteristics. your best bet is probably to swap back over to the stock setup if you are really that unsatisfied.

[Edited on April 7, 2009 at 1:43 PM. Reason : .]

4/7/2009 1:42:17 PM

I'm not going to swap back to stock. The front was lifted 3 inches and the rear lifted 2 inches. The factory shocks won't work with the OME because they're too short.
I'm curious if I should try softer aftermarket shocks with the OME springs.

4/7/2009 1:44:02 PM

adjustable shocks might be an idea

but that higher spring rate might be part of the culprit

4/7/2009 1:52:17 PM

yeah.. not necessarily stock, but i would try to find something else that is matched. it really depends on the spring rate, tho. it will be boucey if your shocks are not stiff enough to handle the spring rate. adjustable shocks may be an option, but it is probably going to feel harsh regardless if the springs are that much stiffer than stock.

4/7/2009 2:00:10 PM

i would just put the factory springs back in and use a spacer. that is very common to lift/level out the rear or 4 runners. get your factory ride back. i would personally not worry about the softer stock spings and the stiffer shocks. the stiffer shocks will just help keep the rear from bouncing around as much.

4/7/2009 4:29:15 PM

I don't really wanna do that.
The stock springs are pretty worn.

What I might do is find some springs with a lighter spring rate (but more than stock) and try them out with the OME shocks.

4/7/2009 4:37:36 PM

If you didnt want it to drive like it was lifted, you should not have lifted it.

4/7/2009 5:49:09 PM

It doesn't drive like it's lifted.
It drives like a damn sports car, and that's the problem.
I can take turns much faster than with the stock suspension even though I'm 3" higher.

So why don't you shut your trap

4/7/2009 9:08:58 PM

noob

4/7/2009 10:04:37 PM

give it some time to break in before you go changing anything. the ride smooths out with most new springs/shocks after a few hundred miles. flexing it out all around 10-12 times helps as well. make sure you go back and re torque your fasteners as needed after all that too.

also, be sure you installed the springs on the correct side. i don't know about newer 4 runners specifically, but many vehicles use a slightly different rate spring left to right to compensate for extra weight on one side such as the fuel tank, battery, driver, steering column, etc. if you get them wrong, it can cause a funny ride and/or a slight lean to one side.

[Edited on April 7, 2009 at 10:31 PM. Reason : different rates]

4/7/2009 10:26:46 PM

I've got about 300 miles on the new suspension so far. I haven't gone offroading yet.
Do you think it'd take more miles to fully break in or do I really need to give it some really good flexing?

Next time I haul a load of firewood or dirt maybe I'll go bouncing on some woods roads.
One thing I do like about the heavy ass rear springs is how it rides under load. I haven't carried a lot of weight yet, but with all the crap we take going to the beach I can already tell that it handles a lot better with weight compared to the stock suspension. Of course that good attribute makes for a bumpy ride when empty

The springs aren't specific to the side. I get what you're saying though. The fuel tank and battery are on the driver's side (as well as 170 lbs of driver). Before the lift the front driver side was lower than the passenger by 7/8". The rear driver was lower than the rear passenger by 1/2".
I haven't measured since swapping the parts because I wanted everything to settle in first, but I can already tell by looking at it that it's much more level left to right than before.
I plan on rotating the springs and shocks when they start sagging on the driver's side or maybe installing some trimming spacers.

[Edited on April 8, 2009 at 12:04 AM. Reason : ]

4/7/2009 11:59:09 PM

yeah, if those miles are just normal street miles i would give it some more time. you need something that really forces the suspension to travel. slow speed flexing out is good like on a trail or in a ditch or something, but you'll also want some sharp bumps to it also like a bumpy road, speed bumps, etc. maybe go find an empty parking lot one night and go bouncing around the speed bumps a few times. somewhere like pleasant valley with those big bumps in front of the stores would be really good. or, maybe hit up 4 wheel parts on glenwood one day, they'd probably let you play around on their ramp/rock pile.

what you just explained is a common reason why many aftermarket springs are a higher rate. people that lift their vehicle also tend to use them for hauling or towing and the slightly stiffer spring is welcome for that. most stock springs in newer trucks/suv's are rated for passenger comfort, not payload. the second main reason is for on road handling. people want a lift for the looks and more ground clearance, but they don't want to go wallowing down the road like a rock crawler. obviously, a taller vehicle is going to induce more leverage on the suspension resulting in increased body roll. a higher rate helps control that.

i think you'll probably get used to it eventually and prefer the new springs/shocks. they just haven't had a chance to settle in yet, plus you're used to the bouncy feeling of worn out stock pieces. even new stock springs would probably feel stiff at first too comparatively.

if you give it a while longer and still aren't happy, i would probably try a softer valved shock first. i say that because it sounds like it was better when you still had the stock shocks with the OME springs, then really got stiff with the new shocks. i don't know about OME for sure, but a lot of aftermarket suspension companies use really cheap shocks made elsewhere then they just put their name/sticker on them. personally, i'm a big fan of bilsteins for mixed use. or, maybe even something adjustable like rancho rs9000's that you could stiffen up as needed when you've got a load. either way, with just a shock change you'll still keep the extra load capacity, etc. but it should soften the ride up some.

[Edited on April 8, 2009 at 1:20 AM. Reason : there's my mall crawler tech for the day ]

4/8/2009 1:17:31 AM

The ride is jarring on poorly paved roads? solution a.) replace 4runner with a large heavy sedan if you drive a lot of poorly paved roads. solution b.) recognize that you took a utility vehicle with a mediocre ride and modified it to be more capable in situations you will rarely drive the vehicle in. If you want comfort stick to driving cars on roads and built-up jeeps/etc on trails.

This is like putting an upside down tack on a chair, then sitting on it and complaining that your ass hurts.

4/8/2009 4:22:43 AM

you have two options, take out the bottom leaf in the lift springs, or use the factory springs with spacer blocks


or you could throw a couple hundred pounds of weight in the back


you obviously have never driven an unloaded 3/4 or 1 ton truck if you think thats a rough ride

4/8/2009 7:11:27 AM

it's a 4 runner, no leaves since 89.

4/8/2009 10:43:38 AM

Where'd you get your lift. I'm about to do the same to my 3rd gen.

4/8/2009 11:37:32 AM

^^pwnt

[Edited on April 8, 2009 at 11:57 AM. Reason : -]

4/8/2009 11:57:04 AM

indeed, well in that case, you're fucked

4/8/2009 12:05:07 PM

i don't think it's that bad. i mean, i drive an 06 civic that is loud and rough on any road that's not perfectly smooth and flat and level, but i don't think the ride in his 4runner is significantly more bouncy over bumps. it's better in turns for sure. i've haven't ridden in the back yet but after going over speed bumps and whatnot i really don't think it's bad. i really don't think it's worth spending more money on it for now.

i almost never drive it, and i don't ride in it everyday, but that's just my .02

and as far as going back to the stock shocks and whatnot, it was crooked and messed up with those so that's not really an option i think.

4/8/2009 2:38:11 PM

Quote :

"as far as going back to the stock shocks and whatnot, it was crooked and messed up with those so that's not really an option i think."

i think you don't understand how shocks work.

don't be that girl, let the man waste lots of money on useless upgrades and accessories if he wants to.

AMIRITE??

4/8/2009 3:23:36 PM

I think the real question is whether or not it jumps better than it used to.

Go hit the train tracks on Tillary St. across from RMSH at about 45-55MPH. That was always a pretty sweet jump back in the day as long as the DOT hasn't fucked it up.

[Edited on April 8, 2009 at 3:29 PM. Reason : l]

4/8/2009 3:29:13 PM

the shocks dont make a lot of difference when it comes to your problem, they are controlling a very small amount of oscillation, you need softer springs

4/8/2009 8:48:10 PM

^^^She's not that girl. She bought me the front shocks for xmas


se7entythree


^x7 I got the rear springs and shocks from Wheeler's Offroad, the front shocks came from trdparts4u, and the front springs were purchased off some dude from a forum.
You can buy it all as a kit but I got them seperately cause of the good deal on the front springs and se7entythree got me the front shocks at a different time.
Word of caution when ordering parts, don't buy anything from rocky road outfitters. Their customer service is the shittiest I've seen.

Quote :

"you obviously have never driven an unloaded 3/4 or 1 ton truck if you think thats a rough ride"

I drove an F-250 for work in college and now often drive F-350 fire engines up and down bulldozed firelines on the sides of mountains on wildfires, on woods paths while doing timber exams, and accross logging decks on water quality inspections.
I'm not a complete n00b.

Yall are making it sound like I'm a fucking baby crying cause I'm shocked at the ride.
Let me repeat; the ride is a little jarring. This is a personal vehicle. If I want to tweak the ride then wtf is wrong about asking?

[Edited on April 8, 2009 at 10:07 PM. Reason : ]

4/8/2009 9:49:04 PM

^^wat? sure they do. even with super soft springs, if you've got shocks that are over dampening and too unresponsive on compression/rebound you get a jarring ride. this is especially true for street driving or anything else at speed where bumps you encounter are giving the suspension/shocks a quick jolt. a properly valved shock responds quick enough to absorb/dampen some of if not all of that energy.

one way to test this theory is to go find a parking lot with big speed bumps like i said. go slow enough over them that you're giving the suspension time to react and travel as it bounces over, but go fast enough so that you get a good bounce and compression on the rear end. hopefully you understand what i'm saying. dropping off a curb at a slow/moderate pace will give the same results. if you get a decent bounce, you know it's probably the shocks. flexing it out will help show the difference also. if it still flexes well, then it's probably the shocks. if it's still real stiff going over the speed bumps or doesn't want to flex, then i'd probably consider the springs. my money is still on the shocks though based on your explanations so far. plus, it's well proven that OME makes very nice springs, especially for toyotas. i'll bet the use cheap generic shocks though like i explained earlier. i'll look around and see if i can figure that out for sure.

in any event, i would still just leave it alone for now and see if it gets better. it's not uncommon for things to loosen up a good bit with 500-1000 miles and some off road time, whether real or simulated in a parking lot. if it's still not better after that, you could always put your soft and worn out stock shocks back on as a temporary test before you dump money on better quality new ones. if they're over extending bad, you can get some cheap 2-3" extensions from pep boys. they're only like $5-10 or something.

4/8/2009 10:30:06 PM

Thank you for giving me some constructive info.

From what you say it does sound like the shocks are the issue. On long curves it still leans (still less than stock though) but coming off a speedbump it just kinda slams down. I'll do a little playing around in a few days. Maybe the shocks will soften up.

Quote :

"people want a lift for the looks and more ground clearance, but they don't want to go wallowing down the road like a rock crawler."

I actually expected (and wanted) more of the wallowing down the road effect and I guess that's really why I started this thread. I was worried that if it's jarring on rough pavement then it might mean it wouldn't flex well offroad and wouldn't handle offroad bumps well. On nice pavement it's a dream.

4/8/2009 10:53:02 PM

dump the ome for some Bilstiens 5150's, did it on mine, but it also involved a sas swap, and a rear leaf swap

4/8/2009 11:30:53 PM

4wd is gonna lean more than 2wd anyway. its taller and more flexable parts

4/8/2009 11:42:07 PM

how the fuck did you get SO stupid? are you even capable of normal daily functions like bathing, wiping your ass, etc.?

[Edited on April 9, 2009 at 1:33 AM. Reason : IDIOT, GOSH]

4/9/2009 1:32:46 AM

Quote :

"i think you don't understand how shocks work."

maybe not, but the driver's side of the car was lower w/o people in it, and it doesn't come that way when you buy a new one...or at least my 2003 runner when i bought it didn't come that way. or maybe it was the passenger side, i dunno, but that doesn't sound right to me and it sounds like something shocks/springs would fix.

is it not?

[Edited on April 9, 2009 at 10:04 AM. Reason : cannot type]

4/9/2009 10:02:28 AM

[Dr. Ro's voiceover]

"Let us observe the 2 degree of freedom system in ocillatory motion. notice the sign-ooh-soital
movement and its frequency"


all i gotta say is man up, you wanted the lift, now you get the ride

4/9/2009 11:28:22 AM

^^shocks don't have anything to do with ride height. you can take them off completely, and it's still going to be the same. what holds the vehicle up and is responsible for anything like that is the springs.

4/9/2009 5:39:22 PM

^^I wanted the lift for its ground clearance and silly me, I thought it would also handle bumps better.
Instead what I got was a sports car.

Apparently everyone thinks offroad lift = sports car and I'm stupid for actually wanting a suspension that soaks up bumps.

[Edited on April 9, 2009 at 6:59 PM. Reason : ]

4/9/2009 6:58:44 PM

Listen you stupid fuck, you will find that all over the world the OME springs are the preferred choice when people want to maintain control of their vehicle over bumpy terrain. A good example would be any road with washboards or even a fucking logging road. The reason the OME is preferred is they are able to stand up to this terrain and allow you to maintain traction. They are not designed, used or selected for their fucking "road feel" and anyone who whines about that should be run over with their own truck.

Now its time to shut up, sack up, and hit a fucking trail and I dont mean hiking or mountain biking you damn dirty hippie.


/thread

4/9/2009 8:56:17 PM

Quote :

"shocks don't have anything to do with ride height. you can take them off completely, and it's still going to be the same. what holds the vehicle up and is responsible for anything like that is the springs."

Quote :

"but that doesn't sound right to me and it sounds like something shocks/springs would fix"

4/10/2009 9:50:34 PM

^heh

Quote :

"^^I wanted the lift for its ground clearance and silly me, I thought it would also handle bumps better. Instead what I got was a sports car. Apparently everyone thinks offroad lift = sports car and I'm stupid for actually wanting a suspension that soaks up bumps."

be glad you got that sports car handling with the lift, that's apretty rare option for that type of modification

4/10/2009 9:54:46 PM

Quote :

"Listen you stupid fuck, you will find that all over the world the OME springs are the preferred choice when people want to maintain control of their vehicle over bumpy terrain. A good example would be any road with washboards or even a fucking logging road. The reason the OME is preferred is they are able to stand up to this terrain and allow you to maintain traction"

Listen you stupid fuck, if you had come into this thread with some intelligent posts like BigBlue explaining that OMEs are designed for washboards rather than rock crawling then you would have saved us all a lot of worthless discussion. It's great over washboard. It doesn't flex worth shit.

4/11/2009 2:42:05 PM

Well we are gonna be at Uwharrie next weekend if you want to come try it out. Once you actually wheel it some you will get a better understanding of what is going on.

4/11/2009 9:45:59 PM

lol at the n00bing, why dont you get a roof rack and some hellas? it'll look nice parked at frat court

4/11/2009 10:38:48 PM

^stfu.

So...on saturday I loaded 2-300 lbs worth of tree gear in my 4R to do a tree removal job in Northampton Co. While up there, I went on some farm paths and filter strips to try and flex it out a little.
I've got 6-700 miles on it now and apparently the shocks did break in.
Now the rear will actually bounce and rock left to right a tiny bit.
Feels good now. It still doesn't flex as much as I'd like but I can live with that.

4/13/2009 8:53:15 PM

Did you use the soft, medium, or hard springs?

4/13/2009 9:44:36 PM

With OME, soft, medium, and heavy aren't really accurate descriptions.

My front springs are 885 with 140S shocks. My rear springs are 895 with 141 shocks.

The front 883, 884, and 885 springs are all the same spring rate even though they're sold as soft and medium. The 886 is both heavier and longer than the 885.

OME rear 895 and 895E are the "soft" springs and they also sell the 896 which is heavier, but the same length as the 895. With the rear, OME also has 142 shocks (valved for 896), which are supposed to be stiffer than the 141 shocks. Quite a few people on 4Runner forums have the 895 springs with 142 shocks. I can't imagine how stiff those would be...

Anyway, to answer your question my setup is the "softest" that OME offers.
Factory spring rates are 580 lb/in front and 180 lb/in rear.
The OME 885 and 895 are 590 lb/in and 260 lb/in. That's quite a bit stiffer in the rear, but I didn't have any idea exactly how that would be in the real world before I installed them. The OME parts were developed for the Prado/GX, which is a little heavier than all the other 120 series Toyotas.

I had thought about getting some other brand springs and shocks for the rear that had lower spring rates (200-215 lb/in). But, after thinking about it my setup is level. If I get the softer rear springs I should get a softer ride and better flex...but carrying a load it may be too low in the rear. All the other drop in aftermarket springs and shocks don't lift as much as the OMEs. I guess another alternative would be softer rear springs with appropriate shocks plus trim spacers to lift the rear to the same level as the OMEs.

Being lazy I think I'm just gonna call it good.
It really is amazing how well the 4Runner handles on the road. I bet it'd beat a stock Sport Edition in a race on a road track. That's not really what I was expecting, but whatever.
I'm just gonna leave it alone.
If I modify anything else it's gonna be a new set of upper control arms. After lifting it the alignment shop can't get enough caster (I already knew that would happen before lifting it). It pretty much drives fine, it just wanders a hair going straight down the road. (for you fucktards, don't take that comment as me bitching about my lift)

4/14/2009 1:47:19 AM

or softer springs with air shocks

4/16/2009 8:03:17 PM