if/when it is made official, i wonder what it will look like. the panthiestic eyeball atop the pyramid will probably be replaced by some new dragon-bald eagle-tiger version of the following:

4/2/2009 3:04:13 PM

or not.

4/2/2009 3:50:48 PM

I guess I don't understand economics enough. I think if it ever got into the situation where China tried to call in our debt we would just tell them to fuck off rather than let them control our country. I honestly think if it came down to it we would go to war before making some Chimerican anything.

4/2/2009 4:56:42 PM

Plus the Chinese need a market to sell all the crap they're producing like the statue above.

Who else is going to buy a lion with a snake coming out of its ass?

4/2/2009 8:12:39 PM

They could just say screw you and stop loaning us money, then we'd be in big trouble.

I'm not sure why we hate China so much though (aside from their communist roots and lead painted toys). I mean, they've been pretty good to us these past few decades.

4/2/2009 9:33:32 PM

^^ Klingons

4/2/2009 9:35:56 PM

^^^ I know I would. That statue is pretty badass.

Quote :

"I think if it ever got into the situation where China tried to call in our debt we would just tell them to fuck off rather than let them control our country. I honestly think if it came down to it we would go to war before making some Chimerican anything."

I tend to agree, but maybe neither one of us understands macro economics. Doesn't hurt to learn chinese just in case though

4/3/2009 10:05:41 PM

Quote :

"I think if it ever got into the situation where China tried to call in our debt we would just tell them to fuck off rather than let them control our country. I honestly think if it came down to it we would go to war before making some Chimerican anything."

There is no legal mechanism for China to use our debt to make us do anything. If they go nuts and dump our bills on world markets, the interest rate will rise and the Federal Reserve will respond to keep rates reasonable by printing money to buy up the Bonds. This could be inflationary, but the board of the fed would know that and hopefully act responsibly (allow rates to become high but not that high). Either way, there is no mechanism for them to gain political power or even real threat power over American policy.

4/3/2009 11:45:30 PM

that and we would just stop buying their products and their economy would collapse

4/5/2009 11:00:08 PM

I find it interesting that the same economic revolution that has allowed China's economy to grow and grow codependent with ours has also curtailed their ability to survive a mutual economic collapse. By turning to a more market-driven and freer economy, the Chinese state has also ceded many of their economic controls to the new capitalist elite.

It is possible that a Sino-American economic collapse would actually allow the central Chinese government to re-assert its authority over the historically lawless inland provinces - yes, the inland provinces are full of areas often run by corrupt local bosses/families/officials with little control from the central government. A Sino-American collapse would devastate the cash-flow of the corrupt inland officials etc. as well as give the national government a justification for rationing food and other necessities. For the most part, China CAN feed its own people so such a collapse would not actually severely damage their ability to feed themselves. Directly controlling the food supplies and distribution while simultaneously seeing the impoverishment of the local bosses would cause the central government to be the entity that had the most control on day-to-day life even in the remotest and most corrupt regions.

My fear is that old-guard believers in the communist ideal may see this as a desireable outcome and an opportunity to reign in the corrupt regional powers. Luckily, the same new-wealth elite that would have to be thrown under the bus for this to happen are also some of the most powerful new faces in the communist party of China. For the sake of the whole region I hope that a Sino-American collapse does not happen. Also, I guess that would be bad for us too.

4/6/2009 2:11:32 AM

Quote :

"I find it interesting that the same economic revolution that has allowed China's economy to grow and grow codependent with ours has also curtailed their ability to survive a mutual economic collapse. By turning to a more market-driven and freer economy, the Chinese state has also ceded many of their economic controls to the new capitalist elite."

I have seen no evidence that economies can collapse. Yes, they can suffer severe problems such as a currency exchange crisis, a deflationary spiral, whatever, but these can all be fixed with time and progmatic policies.

At the same time, while international trade is immensely helpful it is not necessary. A market-driven economy can prosper without it just fine, just as America's economy did fine before liberalization. A sudden end to trade flows is jarring and would undoubtedly cause a recession, or make an existing recession far worse, but in no sense would such in any way threaten survival.

Also, just because we are trading partners does not mean either side has ceded economic controls. Yes, we have created the WTO and gave it some influence, but with a simple majority in congress and the presidents signature the WTO goes away.

4/6/2009 9:40:31 AM

the Japanese hold virtually the same number of T bills, better make it the JaChinerican dollar
http://www.ustreas.gov/tic/mfh.txt

4/6/2009 11:40:56 AM

I thought this was about a Chimera... commenting on the social construction of money and how it really has no basis. Not about China.
Regardless, I don't think this will happen.

4/6/2009 1:31:49 PM

Quote :

"I have seen no evidence that economies can collapse."

Argentina and Germany weren't evidence of that? Mmmk. If you won't call those collapses then you're just arguing because you don't like the word. Economies can get to a point where a nation is effectively bankrupt and must be bailed out by a stable external source of wealth. That can be the IMF or war plunder. If you don't want to call an economy that is so depressed and dysfunctional that it must be reset by a massive gift of outside wealth then I really don't care what euphemism you choose to use.

[Edited on April 6, 2009 at 5:59 PM. Reason : ]

4/6/2009 5:55:40 PM

or Zimbabwe

4/6/2009 5:56:34 PM

^Shh I was saving them for later.

4/6/2009 6:00:38 PM

WHO IS RON PAUL

GOOGLE RON PAUL

4/6/2009 7:14:10 PM

haha. I just bought a bunch of his books. gonna see if he is as crazy as I think he is

4/6/2009 7:23:42 PM

true freedom is the ability to be able to charge people for products in gold, silver, cows, or weed

4/6/2009 7:29:02 PM

hey, charging people in cows is the shit, man

4/6/2009 7:35:05 PM

eventually we'll all coalesce around the glory of the gold standard. gold is inherently valuable and it can't be manipulated in its value by jew international bankers.

[Edited on April 6, 2009 at 8:04 PM. Reason : ,]

4/6/2009 8:02:40 PM

Charybdisjim, like I said, Germany, Argentina, and Zimbabwe can all be fixed with time and progmatic policies. There is no need for external wealth from anywhere to reset anything. The currency is retired, a new one is issued, and national politicians under pressure from the populace stop the government from borrowing from the central bank. Or, knowing such is not politically possible, a truely pragmatic regime would adopt a foreign currency through dollarization. In the case of Zimbabwe, dollarization is already underway, all the government needs to do is stop arresting and robbing people and the economy can start recovering.

[Edited on April 6, 2009 at 8:14 PM. Reason : .,.]

4/6/2009 8:12:38 PM

I'm sorry, but it really sounds like what you are saying is that "economics cannot collapse" rather than "economies cannot collapse." Every thing you are talking about is "hey, they can change their entire way of doing business and things will get better." That sounds, to me at least, a lot like changing to a completely different economy and economic system. Maybe this is splitting hairs, but if your economy is at the point where you have asinine inflation such that the price of milk quadruples every 4 seconds, I'd say your economy has collapsed.

4/6/2009 8:16:12 PM

I see your point. Maybe I am being too picky. My vision of an economic collapse is the words 'beyond repair' or to the point that the dominant economic order would be from scratch. That would not be the case in Zimbabwe, however, since after fixing the country the same workers will go back to occupy the same farms and factories doing the same work that they did before the trouble. Given that, 'economic collapse' seems like exageration to me.

4/6/2009 8:33:07 PM

Quote :

"the same workers will go back to occupy the same farms and factories doing the same work that they did before the trouble."

I don't think Mugabe will let the white people have the farms back.

4/7/2009 9:15:55 AM