It doesn't need to include a monitor but a new monitor would be nice. I don't feel comfortable building it myself. Right now i'm looking at the XPS 630, any more thoughts/suggestions? http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/xpsdt_630?c=us&cs=19&l=en&ref=dthp&s=dhs

Thanks.

3/31/2009 6:25:23 PM

Check out the Dell outlet...I picked up a refurb XPS a couple of months ago, and it's great. No signs of any kind of damage, works great, significant discount, and it carries the same warranty as a new system.

3/31/2009 10:12:15 PM

try this thread
message_topic.aspx?topic=472002

3/31/2009 11:16:15 PM

Build your own. You'll get a lot more bang for your buck. For two grand you can build a pretty beastly rig.

3/31/2009 11:23:10 PM

$2000? Build your own.

DVD Drivehttp://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827136152

Casehttp://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129154

CPUhttp://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115202

Heatsinkhttp://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835118019

Heatsink adapterhttp://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835118045

1.5TB HDDhttp://www.newegg.com/Shopping/ShoppingItem.aspx?ItemList=N82E16822148337

30GB SSDhttp://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227393

6GB Ramhttp://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231223

MBhttp://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813136066

750W PSUhttp://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139006

ATI 4870 X2 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150349

25.5" ASUS LCD http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236046

Grand Total : $2,090.36 Shipped -$70 MIR

$2,020.36

All that's missing is an OS, which you could just use Windows 7 beta just fine, for free.

I doubt anything you will build on any website config will get you anywhere close to this. If you take it to Intrex, they'll build it for you for a fee.

[Edited on April 1, 2009 at 5:09 AM. Reason : d]

4/1/2009 5:02:14 AM

Just tried to build a similar comp on dell.com

It would cost $3500+, would not be overclock-ready, and you'd be missing the SSD.

4/1/2009 5:09:16 AM

Quote :

"I don't feel comfortable building it myself. "

Hire somebody from TWW for $20-25/hr. Seriously, if I had the time, I'd spend a Saturday or Sunday morning to put $100 cash in my pocket and do something I enjoy. About the only downside to this is you don't get a Dell Service Plan, which may or may not be of interest to you. But, just factor in the payment as a part of the total cost. As jchill2 mentioned, you'll save 1/3-1/2 the total cost of trying to build through a major manufacturer, unless you find a special through them. Overall, you'll save a LOT more money and get a higher-quality system if you hire somebody to consult on buying the parts and build it for you.

Note: I just built my own for about $1800. Most expensive thing were a pair of raptor hard drives I bought ($450 total). The expense was worth it for me, but may not be something everybody would (or should) pay for. Hence why I recommend getting somebody to consult with first.



[Edited on April 1, 2009 at 8:16 AM. Reason : .]

4/1/2009 8:12:48 AM

Wow. I built a gaming computer a little over a year ago for about $700 and it is still going very strong with the new titles that are coming out. $2000 for a computer is just overkill. I could almost buy 3 gaming quality computers for that $2000. I'll put it this way:

2008: $700 for a computer that will likely be good enough to last me 3 years.
2011: $700 for a computer that will likely be good enough to last me 3 years.
2014: $700 for a computer that will likely be good enough to last me 3 years.
2017: $2100 got me here.

Vs

2008: $2000 for a computer that will likely be good enough to last ?5? years.
2013: $2000 got me here.

4/1/2009 8:56:47 AM

I actually just found this.

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?oc=dxdozp4&cs=19&kc=19&dgc=CJ&cid=24471&lid=566643&acd=10495476-2026489-

If you ordered that and installed your own videocards, it may not be too bad of a deal.

4/1/2009 8:59:23 AM

what's the advantage of having a solid state drive and a regular hard drive in your build?

4/1/2009 9:14:20 AM

I assume to install the OS to for much quicker performance?

4/1/2009 9:34:43 AM

Yep

4/1/2009 9:36:52 AM

http://www.avadirect.com/

These dudes are pretty good. You can spec out your PC exactly like you want and their prices are very reasonable. Probably only ~$200 more than you would spend if you bought all the parts off newegg or something.

4/1/2009 9:41:19 AM

http://www.ibuypower.com/

http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/

4/1/2009 12:43:48 PM

$400 for a computer (update had some parts already) that will last me 3+ years easy

only reason im building a new one is my vid card died (agp) and the motherboard is flaky

4/1/2009 12:47:32 PM

Thanks for the input guys. I'll say again that i do feel uncomfortable building the rig myself.

Those avadirect guys look pretty good. My current PC is from cyberpower and it's lasted me 8 years. All i did was upgrade video card and fix a broken heat sink. Are there any pre-specced out avadirect or cyberpower PCs you guys would recommend that fits my budget? I do realize i'm spending a bit extra this way...

is this a waste of money?
http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/system/CyberPower_Gamer_Infinity_8800_Pro_SE/

4/1/2009 6:10:30 PM

^ $2000 and it still uses onboard sound. That is a bit overkill right there. You don't need to buy the absolute best computer out there to get good performance that'll last for years and years. I suggest you hit up some of the hardware review sites out there and look at their comparison charts and start figuring out what'll get you the best performance for your money.

Take the money you saved and buy yourself some upgrades some years down the road to keep the thing going. Or, better yet, buy some basic computer parts and toy around with building your own computer and get comfortable with doing it.

I have quite the little computer sitting next to me and I easily have put less than two grand into this thing. Plus, if I crank all the fans up to maximum it sounds like a jet taking off. Building is more rewarding than buying and I highly suggest you consider buying some dinky parts to build a computer at some point (then sell that off and keep that practice in mind for the next time you decide to get yourself a new gaming rig).

[Edited on April 1, 2009 at 6:34 PM. Reason : http://www.tomshardware.com/us/#redir (See top, where it says "charts")]

4/1/2009 6:33:33 PM

^^ at the very least, it's hideous...never underestimate the sophistication of a modest yet solidly-built case

then again, my first couple of computers that i built were big steel towers, glossy black with plexiglas windows and glowing LEDs that made it look like a UFO or a car from "the fast and the furious"...maybe we all have to go through that stage before settling down with something more practical

for my money, i love the antec p180 case - solid, quiet, small without being a pain to work in (and i got it for $70 shipped a few months back): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129041

you really should consider building this yourself...it's EASY to do, and there are any number of people who can help you out...i forget who it was that just built their first computer and made a whole thread for it, but they can attest to the ease of doing it for the first time

4/1/2009 7:07:44 PM

Quote :

"All i did was upgrade video card and fix a broken heat sink"

if you can do this then you can probably build a new system.

4/1/2009 7:17:22 PM

$2000 is way way way beyond what you actually need or will to spend for a computer to last a few years. Unless you get ripped off..and it looks like you will with the crap you've been looking at so far.

Take the advice of all the people here.

4/1/2009 7:35:28 PM

We could probably walk you through it, honestly. I was terrified by the thought of building my own, but I did it for the first time ever this summer. Like many people have said in this thread, it's very rewarding and idiotproof.

4/1/2009 9:32:13 PM

i too built my own computer and knew nothing about it until i started. Do a little bit (very little, these guys can walk you through it) of research and you'll be fine. It really is very easy. If something craps out just replace the part that is messed up more conveniently than a build like dell or whoever

4/2/2009 6:53:05 AM

True. It's pretty impossible to put one together wrong. I mean, shit will only fit one way and it's pretty obvious where stuff goes.

4/2/2009 8:02:21 AM

additionally, if you buy from some place like newegg that has an EXCELLENT return/replacement policy (they send you a return label so you don't eat the cost of returning an item and will refund your original shipping charges in addition to what the item costs if you're returning something for good), it's pretty safe and you're not going to get "ripped off"

4/2/2009 8:43:00 AM

Get an HP Elite like I did and mod it yourself after the warranty expires, My came with 2.4 ghz quad, 8 gb ram, and Nvida 9500 with 512 mb vram. I know its not the best but it was only $850.

4/2/2009 8:45:55 AM

^Nvidia 9500 doesn't classify as a gaming video card

4/2/2009 10:40:48 AM

I know this, but its pretty decent, it runs Crysis on pretty high settings. I am just saying you can upgrade that and pretty much be set.

4/2/2009 11:04:17 AM

I posted this in the other PC build thread, but since the OP mentioned the brand cyberpower I want to throw it in here too. Someone asked me for my opinion on this model and while I've always built my rigs, in this situation it's not an option. I told him to pull the trigger.

Quote :

"http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883229086 what do you guys think about this as a recommendation for someone looking to upgrade a 7 year old VAIO that will mainly play WoW? If they use the components pictured, I see and MSI board and and EVGA 9800GT. I added all the components separately into the cart and they came out more expensive, but the only thing that really would worry me is quality of RAM and the PSU."

[Edited on April 2, 2009 at 11:12 AM. Reason : .]

4/2/2009 11:12:31 AM

The people telling you to build your own don't have anything to gain from it. Realize that. We're saying from experience that buying an already built computer is a complete waste of money. I got lazy and ordered a Dell for my wife to play WoW w/ me (the only complete computer I have ever actually bought) and it was the worst PoS I've ever had the displeasure of owning. And the power supply failed on day 91.

I think something that's missing from this thread is what you're expecting to do with this new computer. Are you planning on burning DvDs and will be doing a lot of video encoding? What games, specifically if at all? $2000 is approaching enthusiast-level money and if you're not comfortable building it, I'm not sure you're an enthusiast. I doubt you need solid state drives and the fastest Raptors in RAID0, but I could be wrong.

4/2/2009 1:23:00 PM

OEM vs building comes down to two things: Comfort and then price.

Question 1> Are you comfortable with building and supporting your own computer?
If the answer is no, buy an OEM.
If the answer is yes, move on to question two.

Question 2> How much will it cost to build it yourself vs buy it OEM (or a combination of the two)?
If you compare a fully build OEM vs a fully built do-it-yourself, the diy always comes out cheaper. However, there are some occasions where you can get the core components of the system cheaper through an OEM.

Example: The computer I had before the one I have now was a Dell Poweredge 400SC. At the time dell was having a deal where it was $299 for a base model (case/psu, mobo, cpu). The total component price of the base model was about 100-200 cheaper than if I bought those components myself. Plus the dell came with a 1 year warranty. I then bought some ram, HDDs and a gfx card on newegg. So in the end I had a sort of custom system, saved ~150 and had an OEM warranty on the base stuff.

So that might be something you look into if you're not too comfortable with building yourself, but you can figure out how to put in ram, HDDs, and a gpu.

The comp I have now is the first one I've built myself and I had no problems with it. If you do buil yourself, make sure you pick quality components and you wont have an issue.

4/2/2009 1:33:33 PM

^^ yeah, $2k is crazy...i do photoshop, extensive video editing/conversion, and some more-than-basic-but-not-extensive gaming (think oblivion with everything maxed) on an x64 system utilizing 8gb of DDR2, an E6750 proc, and an HD3750 inside a P180 antec case (mATX) with a generic 500w power supply

is it top-of-the-line? of course not...but it's more than adequate for the vast majority of things i do with it...i'll probably OC the proc since they do well at 3.2 with stock cooling (which is all i have) and upgrade the video card shortly, but all things considered, an equivalent machine could be built for about $600, and a SIGNIFICANTLY better (generally good enough for everything but the most extreme enthusiasts) could be build for $1000-1200

the only thing you could do with $800-1000 of leftover cash would be to "invest" in some minimal-value/newest-tech hardware that will be half the price in 6 months

^ i agree, except in cases like this one...a pre-configured/built computer will NEVER be cheaper if you're looking at higher-end components...mid- and low-level components will be, since the tech is almost always old and cheaper to manufacture (add in the bulk discounts that OEMs get, and there we go)

also, the comfort level associated with building your own PC is akin to your comfort level associated with riding a bike (except safer): it's scary at first, but then you realize it's incredibly easy and you're wondering why you didn't learn sooner...as noted before, if the dude has "repaired" a heatsink and installed a video card, he can put a computer together...it's like he's already on the bike with training wheels

[Edited on April 2, 2009 at 1:47 PM. Reason : .]

4/2/2009 1:42:18 PM

How do you OC? I would like to OC my machine about 300-600mhz, is this dangerous?

4/2/2009 1:44:14 PM

^ in the bios (i wouldn't advise the non-bios utilities)...and "dangerous" is impossible to tell without knowing what you're working with...some procs overclock better than others, but all are dependent on cooling...in MOST cases, you're going to want something better than stock cooling, but it really depends on the processor (and the memory, for that matter)...generally, overclocking in a small mATX case is asking for trouble, but it just depends

my E6750 overclocks admirably on stock cooling, and the P180 has a massive (200mm?) and 120mm fan right next to the processor (the power supply is also in its own chamber, which helps)

[Edited on April 2, 2009 at 2:01 PM. Reason : .]

4/2/2009 2:00:47 PM

I have a 6400 @ 3.01GHz with no problems. Scythe HSF though.

4/2/2009 2:02:32 PM

I have HP Elite M9500f - 2.4ghz Quad AMD x64, 8gb Ram, and like 4 fans iIrc.

4/2/2009 2:03:54 PM

if you're asking how to overclock that chip, the odds that you would even utilize, let alone notice the difference are slim to none.

OEM manufs usually lock the bios anyway.

4/2/2009 2:12:50 PM

yeah, one of the things that always bugged me about buying new(er) laptops is that the BIOS is usually locked...i certainly don't care for overclocking purposes, but it's the principle of the thing

i had forgotten about that, though...an unlocked BIOS alone is a good reason to build your own system

4/2/2009 2:14:51 PM

The next laptop I buy is probably going to be through Sager. Everything else is overpriced for the hardware specs and comes bloated with the manufacturer's useless software. They are about as close as you can get to a DIY or Barebones laptop with a decent GPU.

4/2/2009 3:46:12 PM

Quote :

"The people telling you to build your own don't have anything to gain from it. Realize that. We're saying from experience that buying an already built computer is a complete waste of money. I got lazy and ordered a Dell for my wife to play WoW w/ me (the only complete computer I have ever actually bought) and it was the worst PoS I've ever had the displeasure of owning. And the power supply failed on day 91. I think something that's missing from this thread is what you're expecting to do with this new computer. Are you planning on burning DvDs and will be doing a lot of video encoding? What games, specifically if at all? $2000 is approaching enthusiast-level money and if you're not comfortable building it, I'm not sure you're an enthusiast. I doubt you need solid state drives and the fastest Raptors in RAID0, but I could be wrong."

I might try this 'build your own pc' thing then... i just hope it's as easy as everyone says it is. Also, I just said $2000 because that's what i paid for the computer i currently own, which has lasted me 8 years and it just fits the budget. It's just a "not to exceed figure", i don't necessarily intend to spend that much. I'm subscribed to PC gamer and it looks like they've got a "Build Your Own Gaming PC" mag on stands now so i might pick that up for reference.

I do a lot of photo editing in photoshop and i do plan on playing a ton of first person shooters like crysis/left 4 dead/team fortress etc. The only reason i stopped pc gaming was because the rig couldn't handle it anymore, i'd love to play current games at high settings again.

Quote :

"Question 1> Are you comfortable with building and supporting your own computer? If the answer is no, buy an OEM. If the answer is yes, move on to question two. Question 2> How much will it cost to build it yourself vs buy it OEM (or a combination of the two)? If you compare a fully build OEM vs a fully built do-it-yourself, the diy always comes out cheaper. However, there are some occasions where you can get the core components of the system cheaper through an OEM."

Q1 - I wasn't going into this, but i guess i might give it a shot.
Q2 - I'd definitely save about 400 bucks, which i could put towards a new monitor. So i guess that's a pretty good incentive.

Thanks again for the input everyone.

4/2/2009 5:12:33 PM

Post ur parts here before you pic them just so others can review. One thing to note is that if you get a fancy gpu, make sure your PSU is capable of supplying it with the right ammount of current. The gpu will tell you how much it expects on each pci connector, so make sure you get a PSU that #1 has enough connectors and #2 provides the required current. More watts != more amps. Read da specs!

The two hardest parts of actually building your PC are going to be:

1) getting the cpu heatsink mounted properly and securely
2) getting the fucking front panel jumpers into the right goddamn slots.

The rest is all retardedly easy round peg into round hole stuff.

4/2/2009 5:33:26 PM

+1 for buying a cheap(er) dell and throwing a video card, more ram, and better hdd's in it

4/2/2009 5:51:34 PM

-1 for the piece of shit cases, power supplies and HSFs they use in those things.

4/2/2009 7:24:11 PM

Has anyone seen or performed memtest on DDR3 and compared performance with DDR2, preferably on the Intel P45 board? I'm building a new rig and thinking about jumping up to DDR3, any empirical thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

[Edited on April 2, 2009 at 7:55 PM. Reason : ]

4/2/2009 7:55:23 PM

I like my HP Elite! But I am not an enthusiast either! I'll build one one day, but for now, this will do!

4/2/2009 7:57:36 PM

^^ from http://www.neoseeker.com/Articles/Hardware/Reviews/ddr2_vs_ddr3/13.html

Quote :

"Basically, as a simple example, if you had DDR2-667 memory with 5-5-5-15 timing, that would have exactly the same latency as DDR3-1333 memory with 10-10-10-30 timing, as the latency clock cycles had to go up to compensate for the higher transfer rates because there is no magic. DDR3 is basically DDR2 with an extra level of interleaving on the memory modules, and just because it can clock out the data faster, it does not mean that they managed to increase the basic RAS, CAS and other latencies... and since they are now specified relative to a higher speed clock, the number of cycles for specifying latencies get larger. The results of our tests show that DDR3 can hold its own against good DDR2 memory - low latency PC2-8500 - at PC3-10667 speeds. The results also show that once DDR3-1600 memories are released, they will eclipse the speed of all but the highest rated specialty low latency DDR2 modules. The problem with DDR3 is that currently it is difficult to justify spending far more on DDR3-1333 modules than on low latency DDR2-1066 which will give you better overall performance. There is no question in my mind that DDR3 will surpass DDR2 in performance once DDR3-1600 and DDR3-2000 hit the market, but that time has not yet arrived."

considering i just picked up 8gb of DDR2-800 (5-5-5-18) for $30AR, i don't see the advantage of DDR3 (price vs. performance) yet...unless you'd like to get an i7 (which only has a DDR3 memory controller, IIRC)...that said, DDR3 is coming down quickly

actually, ben's has a 6gb kit of 9-9-9-24 DDR3-1333 for $68AR, so that performance bump might be worth the extra ~$40 for 2gb less (which really isn't necessary in the first place)

*shrug*

[Edited on April 3, 2009 at 8:53 AM. Reason : quotes]

4/3/2009 8:29:13 AM

Previous rig (bought in 2003):
- Dell Barbeondes PowerEdge 400SC. Initial Cost: $300.
- Upgrade Costs over past 5 years: $700. (New Video Card, RAM, DVD Burner, HD, 19" Flatscreen Monitor ... keep going)

Current rig (2009):
- Quad Core Processor ~$200
- 8GB RAM ~$200
- 24" Flatscreen $250
- Motherboard ~$125
- OS (yes, bought legit!) $175
- 1TB HD ~$100
- 2*Raptors HDs ~$450
- Video Card ~$200
- Case w/Power Supply ~$100
- Misc. (DVD/FDD Drive, Cables, Arctic Fan for CPU, Wireless Card< +/- approximations above) ~$100
Total: $1900 - Rebates = $1800

Overpaid on some things? Yes. Overkill on others? Yes. Is it what I wanted? YES. Will it last me 5 years like my previous rig without having to upgrade any of the components? Who knows.

Truly your call how you want to proceed. If you have the time, find somebody to hire to get the parts and assemble everything. If you'd prefer not to take that kind of risk, pay the extra and buy from a major manufacturer.

[Edited on April 4, 2009 at 8:54 AM. Reason : .]

4/4/2009 8:49:12 AM

sorry guys, i don't think i could build this pc for this cheap...
http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&oc=DXDOCP1
^dell has a good deal on this for the next few days imo. I may take the bait...

edit:
and the XPS 730 just went down in price too... i guess it's just less overpriced now?
http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/desktop-xps-730x?c=us&cs=19&l=en&ref=dthp&s=dhs

[Edited on April 4, 2009 at 11:46 AM. Reason : .]

4/4/2009 11:41:37 AM

I'd definitely go with the first one since it has a warranty.

4/4/2009 3:46:47 PM

Quote :

"sorry guys, i don't think i could build this pc for this cheap... http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&oc=DXDOCP1 ^dell has a good deal on this for the next few days imo. I may take the bait... "

For the XPS:
Chipset
NVIDIA® nForce 650i SLI chipset This is at least a 2yr old chipset, because my P7N Platinum is a year old.

CPU Intel Q8200 1 $170.00 $170.00
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115055
RAM Corsair 2x2GB 800mhz 1 $25.00 $25.00
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145184
Corsair 2x1GB 1 $19.00 $19.00
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145590
Motherboard Asus P5N-D 750i 1 $130.00 $130.00
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131232
GPU EVGA 9800GT 1 $100.00 $100.00
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130435
HDD Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 750GB 1 $80.00 $80.00
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148298
Disc Drive LG 20X DVD±R DVD Burner 1 $22.00 $22.00
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827136149
LG Black SATA DVD-ROM Drive 1 $17.00 $17.00
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827136159
Power PC Power & Cooling S61EPS 610W 1 $80.00 $80.00
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817703005
Tower Antec Three Hundred 1 $55.00 $55.00
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129042&Tpk=Antec%20Three%20Hundred
OS Windows Vista Home Premium 1 $99.99 $99.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116488
CPU Heatsink Artic Freezer Pro 1 $38.00 $38.00
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835186134


Total $835.99

All prices are listed after mail in rebates and are from Newegg.

Sorry, but it can still be built cheaper if you can deal with mailing in rebates. I have always gotten mine rebates back rather quickly and haven't had any lost.

[Edited on April 4, 2009 at 6:20 PM. Reason : :]

4/4/2009 6:09:27 PM

build it yourself protip: If the motherboard chipset doesn't say intel on it, then the motherboard is not worth money.

4/4/2009 7:31:51 PM