I noticed the other thread died and I had a question.

So I just started my first 5 gallon batch on tuesday. Its a kit from American Brewmaster and the ingredients are:

American Pale Ale: 60 min not including steeping time.
6.6 lbs light malt extract
6 oz Wheat Malt
6 oz Crystal Malt(40 L)
1 oz Cascade Hops (pellets)
1 oz Mt. Hood Hops (pellets as well) --- Late addition (15 min left)
Sarafale 05 yeast

I have a question or two and wanted some comments. The recipe explains that this is going to be pretty light on hop flavors for a pale ale. Since I like hoppy beers I was planning on dry hopping it.

I found some good comments on homebrewtalk.com and the gist of it is this:
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/dry-hop-ipa-64751/index2.html (about half way down)

Quote :

"Once the beer starts fermenting in the primary, let it reach high krausen and then start to crash (about 1 day or so after high krausen). Fermentation is still going on, but at a lower activity level. Add your dry hops to the primary at this point and let the beer continue to ferment with the dry hops for 3 days total. After 3 days, fermentation should be complete and the beer should be racked to a secondary. If you use pellet hops (and I would recommend that you do), it may be necessary to rack one additional time to help remove as much hop debris as possible. Keg or bottle as usual."

--- The 3 day thing is to get most of the flavor from the hops and none of the grassy notes.

So my plan is to dry hop with 1 oz (or two?) Cascade Hop Pellets (I like cascade unless theres a better hop for dry hopping) in 2 days. Let the Primary finish up the week then go to a secondary on tuesday to leave most of the hops and yeast behind. Then I'll let it age in secondary for another 2 weeks and then bottle it.

Post ideas or advice... Thanks.

2/19/2009 12:27:48 PM

My roommate is brewing oatmeal porter right now with a similar kit. We bottled them recently (we're doing stage 2 in the bottles instead of in one of those 5 gallon water container looking things), and get to try it out next week. The beer he's brewing he just boiled and put into the stage 1 fermenting apparatus and didn't have to add any hops (of course it's a totally different beer).

I guarantee you there are a bunch of wolfwebbers on here that do this though, haha. Waiting for them to chime in...

As far as bottling goes, you might not want to use guinness extra stout bottles for your beer. They don't take too kindly to the caps (they seal and are watertight, but the odd shape of the bottle around the opening makes it look kinda sketchy).

2/19/2009 12:34:21 PM

ive only brewed one batch about a year ago.

bottling can be a pain in the ass if you're doing 5 gallons.

2/19/2009 12:50:21 PM

Bottling is a lot easier if you have two people. I measured corn sugar for the bottles (doing a bunch in a row) then my roommate filled them with beer and stirred them and set them on the table, then I took those and capped em and put em off to the side. It was pretty damn efficient and not too big a hassle. Offer a friend a six pack of your beer if they help you bottle it, haha.

2/19/2009 1:01:31 PM

Yeah I have done a couple 2 gallon batchs and just stepped up to 5 gallons. Bottling was a pain with the other batches because I primed each bottle individuall. With this batch I have a syphon and a bottling wand so I'll prob just prime the whole batch in the secondary and then fill each bottle individually.

Thanks for the input so far... Any ideas on the hop question for my Pale ale?

2/19/2009 2:30:18 PM

Quote :

"So my plan is to dry hop with 1 oz (or two?) Cascade Hop Pellets (I like cascade unless theres a better hop for dry hopping) in 2 days"

you should try it with some Amarillo hops, they pretty much rock

2/19/2009 2:39:27 PM

I usually prime the whole batch and then bottle it with one of those long nozzles. I've tried 2 stage and 1 stage fermentation, and I can't tell much difference. Due to procrastination, I have left beer in primary fermentation for 4 or 5 weeks and I've found that it really helps the taste.

2/19/2009 5:21:03 PM

What vessels are you using for your primary and secondary?

Quote :

"With this batch I have a syphon and a bottling wand so I'll prob just prime the whole batch in the secondary and then fill each bottle individually."

Not sure if I'm reading this right, but I get the impression that you don't plan to use a bottling bucket?

Cascade is a fine aroma hop. Not sure what that guy's issue is with whole flowers for dry hopping...I've found them to give a better aroma and filter out easier than pellets. Nothing wrong with pellets though, if that's what you've got, but you may want to secure a piece of muslin over the end of your racking wand to keep big particulates out. Most advise to let fermentation run to completion before adding your dry hops so as to reduce loss of aromatics via CO2 scrubbing. You can then rack to secondary, let it clear while checking your gravity a couple times, and bottle. Also, 3 days seems light...I've had good results with about a week.

2/19/2009 5:26:18 PM

i use a combination of hops in my pale ales, usually amarillo, saaz, cascade, and maybe another

if you want something really hoppy, hoppier than cascade then use a hop with a higher alpha acididy when you dry hop I recommend simcoe hops (12-14% AA). if this is your first batch then start off slow. I wouldn't dry hop until you are absolutely sure you want that kind of hops. I would use Arrogant Bastard or Hop Devil as an example of what will happen if you dry hop with simcoe or similar hops.

pm me if you have any specific questions

2/19/2009 9:05:45 PM

correct me if you have information or experience to the contrary, but AA content is not a useful indicator of how much hoppiness will be imparted in a dry hop application

that, and most high AA hops are produced specifically for their bittering qualities, while the more popular aroma hops are of a lower to moderate AA (completely generalizing here)

2/19/2009 9:59:39 PM

Thanks for the advice... ^I have a bottling bucket and will be going to that after my 5 gallon glass carboy to bottle, sorry I miss-stated.

The only problem with "leaf" hops that I can see is how to get rid of the seeds. My budies bottled an IPA last night that they had dry hopped and they ended up sucking up some seeds in the syphon. I assume a muslin bag would help that as well so I may try that.

^^I think hes equating that bitter taste of high AA hops to hoppiness, which a lot of people do. I think its just a taste preference but I was looking to go with something that has a little bit of a "cleaner"/"Mellower" taste then that, so I'm pretty sure I will go with the cascade for right now.

Oh yeah, is 1 oz enough for my dry hop you think? I don't really know the difference I'll see btw one and two oz.

Thanks,

2/20/2009 8:13:15 AM

If you're using a secondary why don't you just dry hop in there? If you're going for a two week secondary just rack it from primary, let it sit for a week then add hops and let it sit for another week. If you're using pellet hops they'll break apart and float at the top, but slowly sink over the span of the week leaving a layer at the bottom that is easy to avoid when you rack to the bottling bucket.

2/20/2009 8:20:57 AM

Well I'll probably end up doing something similar to that. My original idea based on reading that guys post was not to let the hops sit too long and add grassy flavors. If I dry hop like you said with that give it enough time to clear up.

By my thinking the advantage of dry hopping in the primary is that I can go to my secondary after a week of dry hopping and clean up the beer substantially. Then let it do its thing in secondary for a week and then bottle. I guess what I'm saying is I can get by most of the hassle of filtering with a muslin when I'm bottling.

2/20/2009 8:32:27 AM

Anywhere from 1 to 2 oz. will be fine, just depends on how hoppy you want it. Pale is a relatively light beer so I would start on the low end...you can always sample it after a few days and add more if it's not where you want it to be.

Quote :

"I think hes equating that bitter taste of high AA hops to hoppiness, which a lot of people do"

AA doesn't matter here, since you'll get no bitterness from dry hopping...unless you prefer the aroma profile of high acid hops or something

I like the idea of adding them in primary after fermentation has finished and then going to secondary for about a week. Of course, secondary has worked well for me in the past, but this sounds easier and should yield a cleaner end product.

[Edited on February 20, 2009 at 9:20 AM. Reason : k]

2/20/2009 9:11:10 AM

thanks, I'll keep all this in mind. I have till tuesday to add the hops to my primary but I'll let you know how it goes.

2/20/2009 10:59:45 AM

what kind of fermenting pots do yall use?

2/20/2009 5:56:50 PM

I'm using a 5 gallon plastic bucket with a lid and an air lock... Cost me 17 bucks and it does the job.

2/20/2009 9:38:18 PM

me too

2/20/2009 11:10:34 PM

primary in a 6.5 gallon glass carboy, secondary in a 5 gallon

but monstrous glass jugs scare me, so I'm considering a switch to these: http://www.better-bottle.com/

2/20/2009 11:14:30 PM

I have one of the Better Bottles also, and it works very well.

2/20/2009 11:21:12 PM

Get plugs if you can. They're better for dry hopping, and seeds are far easier to remove than the hop scum pellets leave behind.

And if Raleigh has a decent selection, try out Simcoe hops. They're the ish for dry hopping. More floral and citrusy than most other varieties I've used (cascade, centennial, amarillo).


^^ I use them for my secondary, but they have a fatal flaw for the primary fermentation. When you're shaking the crap out of them after you've added the yeast, they tend to collapse. Glass doesn't collapse.

[Edited on February 20, 2009 at 11:28 PM. Reason : ]

2/20/2009 11:25:39 PM

^ Thanks for the advice... I'll check out Simcoe. That sounds like exactly what I'm looking for.

About the aeration thing with the better bottle.... Quagmire02 posted something in the other thread about people experimenting with olive oil instead of aeration....

The link is:
http://www.thebrewguide.com/?p=210

The take home from it is, add a drop (or less) of olive oil before pitcing the yeast in your 5/6 gallon batch and no aeration is required.... May solve the flaw in the better bottle.

2/21/2009 9:29:08 AM

or as an alternative, I picked up a ss aeration stone the other day...just need a suitable pump

2/21/2009 9:36:44 AM

Ok so my pale ale dropped off to around 1 bubble every 90 seconds or so and I decided to transfer to my secondary and dry hop there ( I had read this is a good time to do it).

So now my question is... Do you guys think dry hopping for 2 weeks is a problem? If you havn't had problems with grassy notes in your pale ales by doing this I'm tempted to just let it age two weeks in secondary. If not I was planning to go to a 2nd carboy in a week to clear all the hops out and let it mellow out.

Thanks,

2/22/2009 9:26:28 AM

Have you already added the hops? What type of hops are they (pellet, plug, whole)?

If you've already added them, no, it shouldn't be a problem for you to dry hop for two weeks. Some home brewers and even some breweries leave a hop ball in the keg when they ship it. Granted, the keg isn't supposed to sit there for months but I'm pretty sure this "grassy notes" thing is a little overstated.

If I were you I'd rack the beer to secondary/ let it sit for two weeks/ add hops/ let it sit for a week or so/ bottle.

2/22/2009 11:19:12 AM

The recipe I'm using for a ruination clone says to dry hop it for three days only.

It seemed odd, but I moved it to the secondary, then waited two weeks before I dry hopped it I could follow the three-day guideline. Now it's been four days, and I'm feeling lazy. Is the "grassy" flavor the only thing I have to worry about if I procrastinate? I don't mind grassy flavors at all in my beers.

2/22/2009 12:44:01 PM

^I would dry hop to taste. Ignore the recipe and taste the beer. Get it off the hops when you get the flavor you want.

The longer you leave them in the beer, the grassier and more vegetative your beer will taste. I personally hate it, but if you enjoy it, go for it.

2/22/2009 3:01:38 PM

I've allready added the hops. Should of waited a week but oh well... I guess I'll just go for 2 weeks and then bottle... If its not what I want I'll go with just a week dry hop at the end of secondary next time.

2/22/2009 7:11:07 PM

What exactly is the Law in NC in regards to home brew other than beer or wine?

2/22/2009 11:07:56 PM

keep it to a minimum and dont sell it and no one is going to bother you and dont be stupid about it

[Edited on February 22, 2009 at 11:11 PM. Reason : 

2/22/2009 11:10:37 PM

^^you mean distillation, right? It's illegal. As Aficionado said, if you're producing small quantities, not distributing it and not distilling in your front yard the odds that you're going to find yourself in legal trouble are pretty slim.

2/23/2009 8:58:44 AM

Oh yeah, I went with 1 oz of Ahtanum hops for the dry hop. The guy at American Brewmaster said they had a nice mellow citrus flavor which sounded good.

2/23/2009 5:24:49 PM

I know its too late now, but i had this same kit from American Brewmaster, and I also wanted more hoppy beer than a the pale ale was supposed to give. Instead of dry hopping, he just suggested I add another packet of the hop pellets throughout the boil, similar to Dogfish's 60 min. I ended up first using cascades to bitter, 1/2 a packet of simcoe 30 min into boil, Willamette hops 45 min into boil, and then gradually adding in the rest of the simcoe. My beer came out really well, with a lot of hops in the end. Probably not as great as dry-hopping method, but a hell of a lot easier, since i was able to sparge after the boil and not deal with messy hops residue during the fermentation or bottling process.

my next conquest is a vanilla porter. anyone have any good recipe's? also, does anyone know where/if i can get vanilla beans in raleigh, or if i should go ahead and order them online?

2/23/2009 6:44:47 PM

I don't know if your wanting to go the kit route again but American Bremaster has a porter kit. I would look at whole foods for the vanilla beans.... Otherwise you may get lucky at some of the local ethnic food stores.... The place beside subway on western seems like it would be worth a try.

2/24/2009 8:39:08 AM

yeah, the porter kit was an option, but part of me wanted to try and branch out and make the recipe more of my own (even though i am looking for a recipe, i wanted to have the options of being able to make substitutions). however, the kit will be a lot cheaper than anything i am going to find with individual ingredients, which would help, considering i am unemployed at the time.

2/24/2009 10:30:56 AM

I know what you mean... I'm pretty broke myself. The kits are cheap but you could get everything for about the same price individually. The problem is the left over steeping grains that you'd have to take back and get ground if you wanted to brew with them. I'm thinking about starting to culture my own yeast from beers too. This won't cut a ton of cost out compared to dry yeast but it will help some. Plus you have alot more choices as far as type of yeast.

Another option I've looked at is just buying bulk bags of malt... You can't go wrong with a big ass bag of light malt.... It'll all get used eventually... I'll prob do this when I switch to all grain though.

2/24/2009 1:58:42 PM

yeah, i keep wanting to make the switch over to all grain, because of more options, more involvement, and lower costs per batch. however, although i have heard it can be done for about $25, a mash tun does = more money that i dont have right now. my friend and his roommates cultivate yeast, use all grain, buy in bulk, and stick to the basic recipe's and they said they have gotten 5 gal batches down to about $17. I still find this hard to believe.

2/24/2009 3:53:51 PM

thanks for making this thread amkeener. i had been wanting to try to brew beer since i visited harpoon and sam adams in november but never got around to it. i was given a barnes and noble gift card at work today and because of this thread picked up the complete joy of home brewing. after that i swung by american brewmaster and picked up a kit. this is going to be epic.

2/24/2009 9:06:47 PM

^ get ready for a great read. i was never one to take notes in school, but i always keep a pen, highlighter, and post-it notes close when reading this book. there is so much, its good to make it easier to find important tips.

2/24/2009 9:12:39 PM

^my "tour guide" (harpoon doesn't really do tours, just tastings with company history and beer info) at harpoon said the same thing. i'm really excited.

2/24/2009 9:18:13 PM

It's philosophy towards home brewing is more important than any of the technical stuff.

"Relax. Don't worry. Have a home brew!"

2/24/2009 10:55:07 PM

Yeah, the only flaw in that book is the amount of times they say that. I would just sigh after reading it each time.

2/25/2009 10:03:45 AM

I need to pick that book up, I'm interested in this

2/25/2009 12:10:55 PM

I used Complete Joy of Homebrewing for my first couple batches, but soon came to prefer http://www.howtobrew.com (there's also a print version) whenever I needed some basic information...the information in CJH just seemed outdated.

For something more technical, Designing Great Beers is a good book. I've also been trying to read my way through the Brewing Classic Styles series. Haven't read it, but Radical Brewing is another I've been meaning to pick up.

[Edited on February 25, 2009 at 12:53 PM. Reason : k]

2/25/2009 12:51:29 PM

How to Brew gets too technical, although it has a lot of great information. I think Joy of Homebrewing is a lot better for those getting started. Very easy to read and understand.

2/25/2009 12:59:34 PM

I agree and disagree Joy of Homebrewing is great for beginners but its easy to come across things in there even after 3 or 4 batchs that are out-dated or can be improved upon... I use Joy as a quick reference and then howtobrew for in depth stuff... Granted I still havn't gotten through Joy of Homebrewing all the way...

dubcaps --- awesome about starting your first batch... Post all the details. I think Homebrewing is addictive.

[Edited on February 25, 2009 at 2:39 PM. Reason : s]

2/25/2009 2:34:53 PM

i'm going to try to take a bunch of pics and post updates as things develop. let me know how yours turns out. i ended up buying my dad a kit for his birthday and got him the american pale ale (i chose the heffeweizen for myself). his birthday isnt until march 9th so your batch should be done well before his.

2/25/2009 3:02:04 PM

jataylor and I are gonna try our hand at homebrewing this week.

Any general advice for newbs?

2/25/2009 4:13:35 PM

^Think sterile.... Clean everything that you don't boil with iodophore.... after its fermented this is less important... Also start off slow... A kit is really nice because it has mostly fool proof instructions.

^^ I tasted the pale ale this morning and its doing good. I'm gonna let it go another week and a half though but it should turn out really well. Plus I think its about 5.3% abv. I'll keep you updated though.

2/25/2009 4:34:03 PM

Probably going to start my vanilla porter tomorrow. I decided to take the Goat Scrotum Ale recipe in Joy of Homebrewing and adding vanilla bean. It looks like a really cool recipe because you use things like brown sugar and molasses to flavor and add sugar to the wort. Plus, Charlie suggests adding something else to make it unique like ginger or baking cocoa. Anyone tried this before?

2/26/2009 5:42:51 PM