Whether you are a Democrat or Republican, liberal or conservative and whether you support his policies or not, I think there are things we as Americans should be concerned about with our new president. I mean this in all seriousness, Is anyone else concerned by the commercialization and the "pop star" status that Obama has. I for one am a little concerned by the sheer "cult of personality", "messianic praise" and "adoring masses" that Obama has, as well as the merchandising. I mean its really sad, that there is so much "pop" around him. He is almost more of a celebrity than a president, and never in our history has it been like this to this extent. I am concerned because I think as Americans our focus should always be to be critical of our elected officials, and to watch them and criticize them....respectfully. The sheer, and pretty much undeserving adoration, is scary in the sense that it seems almost like a brainwashed cult. I respect the historic significance of his presidency, but that should not take away that he is an elected leader and not our messiah. I think the media has pretty much failed, and has for many years now, in serving as a check and balance to power by objectively reporting on our government. And the medias love affair with Obama has pretty much proved that he will do no wrong in their eyes, and objective reporting by most media outlets will not happen. I also dont think that its good for a leader to see such a cult following because he may come to believe his own hype. Popular masses can be a scary thing when wielded by an unchecked leader. I think as Americans we should be happy our guy won, we should be supportive of our leader but we also must be vigilant to make sure they represent our interests and act in a manner we approve. I dont think a messianic love affair with any leader is a good thing, as it has been shown to end well historically.


This does not belong in another Obama thread, because this is a completely different discussion. This has nothing to do with his policies, but rather his supporters

1/23/2009 4:43:45 PM

not really. the honeymoon with the media is over. the realities of leading the free world are sobering, and they set in fast.

1/23/2009 4:53:29 PM

I was concerned about this months ago...the "Obama Criticism Moratorium" isn't something recent to his inauguration...half the times I attempted to even QUESTION one of his policies or something he did in the past, I would be labeled a racist...so yes, I'm kind of concerned with this, but to me you haven't been able to criticize him since after he publicly denounced Reverend Wright...it seems like the ONLY thing that was fair game as far as criticism was questioning his experience, but then Obama proponents would flip that around on his opponent...I mean his opponent's VP candidate

1/23/2009 4:54:25 PM

I am neither Democrat nor Republican, but I can smell sour grapes. Shortly after 9/11, the very same "Criticism Moratorium" was there for Bush. If you attempted to even QUESTION one of his policies or something he did in the past, you would be labeled a terrorist. I mean, c'mon. Quit bitching that this guy is popular. If he gives the nation a reason, they'll end up hating him as much as we do Bush.

1/23/2009 4:59:34 PM

Quote :

"Popular masses can be a scary thing when wielded by an unchecked leader."

The same thing could be said about Bush after 9/11. He got checked pretty fast.



[Edited on January 23, 2009 at 5:00 PM. Reason : ^ What he said.]

1/23/2009 5:00:07 PM

But what "9/11" has Obama gone through? Not literally...but...9/11 showed us we were vulnerable to an attack on our soil, and Bush used that...what has Obama gone through or what is he using for this? Doesn't seem like a great analogy to me...try comparing it to when Bush was first elected

If Bush used 9/11 to get people to say "yes" to whatever else, ok...that at least makes sense...9/11 was the reason, albeit not a great reason, that people followed along with Bush

Whats the reason people are blindly supporting everything Obama does? Is it sadly just because "he's not Bush"?

[Edited on January 23, 2009 at 5:04 PM. Reason : .]

1/23/2009 5:02:10 PM

Quote :

"Whats the reason people are blindly supporting everything Obama does? Is it sadly just because "he's not Bush"?"

Probably.

But I thought we were wringing hands over our concerns about this. And my comment was that his status will be knocked down pretty quick if he starts to fuck up.

1/23/2009 5:06:44 PM

Quote :

"Is anyone else concerned by the commercialization and the "pop star" status that Obama has."

Quote :

"He is almost more of a celebrity than a president, and never in our history has it been like this to this extent."

You sure about that?



http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001654/

1/23/2009 5:08:15 PM

ok obama got elected and hell i voted for him.

my problem is how people in this country both the liberals and black community act like he is the 2nd coming of Jesus.

I did not vote for Obama as an Affirmitive Action measure because i thought it would be P.C. to have a black president.

1/23/2009 5:08:16 PM

Quote :

"my problem is how people in this country both the liberals and black community act like he is the 2nd coming of Jesus."

they don't, really. That was a characterization made by the Right to try to knock him for his celibrity status and to make his fans seem more cultish than they really are.

1/23/2009 5:10:49 PM

Public approval is fickly.

The media is already getting upset with some things Obama is doing.

There only thing our country like more than building someone up is tearing them down.

etc etc.

So, no, probably no reason for anyone to be concerned by this.

1/23/2009 5:13:12 PM

^^I don't know agentlion...I saw plenty of clips over the last couple months of numerous people saying it was the first time they've ever been this positive about the election or our country, or its the first candidate people have ever truly believed in, etc...maybe they say that every 4 years, but there is clearly a ton of anecdotal evidence that lots of people did view him in an unreal light

^I'm anxious to see how SNL, Daily Show, etc treat him over the coming months and years...they all preferred him to McCain during the election, but now that he's won, they'll certainly have to be more critical

[Edited on January 23, 2009 at 5:14 PM. Reason : .]

1/23/2009 5:14:09 PM

^I've only been alive for 6 elections but from what I've heard from my grandparents is that the only other candidate they ever felt this way about was Kennedy.

1/23/2009 5:17:00 PM

he's bound to fuck up. then we can see how biased the media/public is. i have a feeling he's going to get a pass for a few months though. as it should be (to an extent). let him get his team up to speed. get his initiatives in the pipeline.

but part of being the president is managing expectations and the media. so far obama has done a great job of that in his campaign and the first few days of his presidency. (minus a few flubs in the nearly two year campaign for the dem nomination).

criticism might also not be as sharp on obama because he at least gives the appearance of engaging opposing sides.

[Edited on January 23, 2009 at 5:21 PM. Reason : .]

1/23/2009 5:20:15 PM

I don't see a problem.

A president can get a lot done when people rally around him. If he actually does good things, those people will continue to rally around him, and overall it's better for the nation as a whole.

If that president turns around and then pisses on those rallying around them with bad policy, then people (eventually) will stop and look forward to 2012. Except for those 50% (25/25) blindly loyal to each major party, who will suck any dick with an R or a D on it, respectively.

1/23/2009 5:23:16 PM

I'm more concerned (ok, annoyed) with the rednecks on this board making shitty threads like this crying about the damn president before he has had a chance to do shit yet. kdawg is leading the "the president took a shit and wiped with the wrong hand" brigade with a thread about ever 5 days about bullshit. You're in every other thread crying about BHO whenver you can, and farmer sawyer thinks the end of the world is coming, too. Fucking hell, that's a long rant about...nothing.

1/23/2009 5:26:00 PM

comparing the cult following of Obama to the fact that Reagan was an actor is missing the point. Obama is a pop star, Reagan was a former actor who did not have nearly the same cult messiah status Obama has. You completely missed the point bdmazur

1/23/2009 5:26:41 PM

there was plenty of cult/messiah stuff with reagan too. hell there still is. did you watch any of the republican debates?

1/23/2009 5:33:21 PM

This thread is the same old sour greeps meets intimidation crap. You get the same argument from Rush to Hannity, to all of the hard right folks. It's not suprising....

Here you have a politican who is extremely talented, intelligent, fresh, and somewhat of an icon of a demographic revolution for the U.S. and the world at the very top and you think somehow that will escape the greater population? Why the hell are you suprised that that's a story that sells itself with a great deal of longevity.

I know and you know there's lots of koolaid that comes along with that sensation, but it will die down, so chill the hell out and the lot of you need to politically 'man up'.

1/23/2009 5:44:54 PM

Potentially when the media lashes at any mistakes Obama makes or if his approval rating drops below 50% i do not have to hear the same whining from our message boards conservatives about

blah blah blah omg Liberal hippy media is biased and hates america

1/23/2009 5:52:52 PM

Just to show I'm not biased, Kennedy had quite the cult following too.

1/23/2009 6:00:46 PM

Quote :

"But what "9/11" has Obama gone through?"

BUSH'S PRESIDENCY

Quote :

"He is almost more of a celebrity than a president, and never in our history has it been like this to this extent."

tell me again why its wrong for people to like the president
i know as a republican you aren't really familiar with this, as you slob the knob of the least celebrated president EVER and you surely hated a president who left office with something like a 70% approval rating, so i'm going to just go ahead and chalk your "fear" up to a personal bias

also
George Washington was a God among men when he became president and as such he wouldn't shake hands with people, Teddy Roosevelt was one of the first "celebrities" you could really have in our country's popular national culture to the point that the teddy bear is named after him, and Andrew Jackson energized an entire class of people that had not really been engaged in the national discourse... and thats just the first three off the top of my head

so why don't you just go ahead and figure out another way to call obama an empty suit since thats really your goal here, right?

[Edited on January 23, 2009 at 6:03 PM. Reason : other than that, how was the play Mrs. Lincoln?]

1/23/2009 6:02:20 PM

Quote :

"my problem is how people in this country both the liberals and black community act like he is the 2nd coming of Jesus. I did not vote for Obama as an Affirmitive Action measure because i thought it would be P.C. to have a black president."

I agree (although I didnt vote for him).

I actually think a lot of people have really set themselves up for disappointment.

1/23/2009 6:04:43 PM

Quote :

"^^I don't know agentlion...I saw plenty of clips over the last couple months of numerous people saying it was the first time they've ever been this positive about the election or our country, or its the first candidate people have ever truly believed in, etc...maybe they say that every 4 years, but there is clearly a ton of anecdotal evidence that lots of people did view him in an unreal light"

having hope, believing in, or thinking this was the first positive election in a lifetime != "the 2nd coming of Jesus"

1/23/2009 6:36:21 PM

Quote :

"having hope, believing in, or thinking this was the first positive election in a lifetime != "the 2nd coming of Jesus""

To us Heebs it was the first.

1/23/2009 6:45:32 PM

Wait, let me get this straight. He won the pop vote 52% to 45% and you're worried about a cult of personality problem? Really?

1/23/2009 6:49:59 PM

Oh, I get it, you're concerned that the 45% that was asleep during the bush administration and actually thought McCain was a legit choice is going to still be in their coma and forget to keep an eye on the Messiah, right? That's what you're really worried about.

[Edited on January 23, 2009 at 6:54 PM. Reason : V, reading my mind I suppose]

1/23/2009 6:53:14 PM

Quote :

"To us Heebs it was the first."

lol classic

Quote :

"He won the pop vote 52% to 45% and you're worried about a cult of personality problem? "

>.<

i mean, we should really be concerned about those 23% of people who still think bush was worthy of approval

1/23/2009 6:53:57 PM

^ yeah, and 75% of republicans still approved of him.....

1/23/2009 7:48:46 PM

so wait

does that mean that at maximum, based on those two figures, republicans only make up 31% of the country

ahahhahahhhaah

so much for the 1-party country

or i guess we're getting closer to it...

1/23/2009 7:55:05 PM

it's time to stop making threads now. you're embarrassing yourself, man.

1/23/2009 8:28:11 PM

let him keep going man

his name is Republican18

so everytime he makes a stupid, asinine point

it drives down the brand

like when i make a stupid point it devalues feet

1/23/2009 8:41:02 PM

^And wood.

1/23/2009 9:21:36 PM

Quote :

"Shortly after 9/11, the very same "Criticism Moratorium" was there for Bush. If you attempted to even QUESTION one of his policies or something he did in the past, you would get branded a terrorist"

damn straight. GWB had like 99% approval.

(even I approved, and voiced support for the president .... for a while. til he started fucking around with Iraq.)


so yeah, i dont see any concern. the honeymoon will be over sooner than you realize. separation of powers is the fundamental bedrock of our constitution.

so.... unless you're preparing to join the fortified-compound-conspiracy-theorists, well, theres not much point in talking to you then.




[Edited on January 23, 2009 at 9:39 PM. Reason : ]

1/23/2009 9:33:14 PM

this thread will be bigger than the Sidney Lowe credibility watch in Sports Talk by the end of the year. Maybe an Obama credibility watch thread is more suitable?

1/23/2009 9:36:14 PM

I agree with this thread

Liking the president is one thing, but the fandom surrounding obama is absolutely ridiculous

1/23/2009 9:39:21 PM

[Edited on January 23, 2009 at 9:41 PM. Reason : ]

1/23/2009 9:39:55 PM

well, you dudes need to quit standing around jerking your dicks.

get to stocking up on food staples and ammunition, and building that wall around your property in Northern Idaho.

1/23/2009 9:41:20 PM

Ah where to start...

First off, I've read enough of Republican18's posts to recognize that's one of the few sane, rational posters on this thread. Add in the fact that he leans conservative and you've got perhaps the rarest endangered species on TWW. I think he's making a fair observation, so I'll treat it as such.

Secondly, in response to your sentiments, I think that yes Obama is on par with the most famous celebrities in our country. He has a tremendous following full of devoted supporters, and yes he's getting a lot of positive media attention to say the very least. Furthermore, I concur with those of you forecasting a let-down of sorts when the hype dies down and the real work begins. Such is inevitable, especially considering the state of the country right now economically.

However, and please understand I'm not patronizing anyone by stating the obvious here, I think those that share Republican18's point-of-view are missing and/or understating a very important fact here: A BLACK man is President of the United States.

Read that again. Say it out loud if it helps. And no I'm not trying to drive the hype machine, but honestly just sit back and think about it for a second. Most of us have had the benefit of growing up without racist influences that have traditionally existed in our society. Few of us on TWW, if any at all, have experienced racism firsthand. If you're a white male (like myself) then you're particularly handicapped in understanding what racism is all about.

I say this b/c we all need to to take a second and realize that we probably don't view election and inauguration of Barack Obama the same way other do, much less grasp its impact to our country. Think about all that's transpired within a single generation in regards to civil rights. Think about what this country was like 10 years ago. 20 years ago. 30 years, no 40 years ago. How many people here remember how things were back then? How many people who DID experience those things are living today?

Now the Obama hype starts to make more sense...

But, you ask, that doesn't fully explain the hype behind Obama, does it? No, it doesn't. Let's delvbe a little deeper. Let's also consider a few things:

1) Age - Obama's youth captured a lot of attention from younger generations, which includes a demographic that's often the most overlooked, disenfranchised, and apathetic when it comes to politics. Obama brought these people into the national discussion, and the polling numbers bear this out. The increase in registered voters was staggering. And that doesn't include youth that were too young to vote too.

2) Charisma - Look, you gotta admit that the guy is a natural leader. His got the look, the smile, the intelligence, and the oratory skills. And did I mention the camera loves him? Any way you look at it, this guy has a lot of natural talent. Once this guy decided to pursue politics, it was only a matter of time before the public took an interest in him.

3) 8 years of Bush - Not as important, but still a worthwhile consideration. Bush is NOT an idiot, but he does have some issues when it comes to public speaking. Hence why it's difficult for me to not laugh out loud everytime someone criticizes Obama for not being able to speak without a teleprompter. Honestly, the guy has been through a grueling campaign, countless debates, and 24 hr news coverage of his every move for, what, 2 years now give or take? Believe me, this guy is an excellent pubic speaker, prompter or not. Obama in short has an excellent presidential image. The actual importance of a good image is a discussion for another time. The American people however desperately wanted a President they could be more proud of, look up to, and admire.

4) Saving the Democrats - Not sure how much this counts either, but to me the biggest thing Obama did was save the Democrat party from backing into another defeat. Obama challenged the GOP on its own turf. Areas like abortion, religion, and military action were more or less being ceded to the GOP by the Democrats. Hence why I've never called myself a Democrat, especially in the last 8 years. The Dems have been pussies. Obama entered the fray and promptly smacked his fellow Dems in the face, saying "Quit you're bitching, get up and fight!" He championed the goal of reducing abortions in America, as opposed to overturning RvW. He frequently shared his faith and its role in his life in his numerous media appearances. He made it the stated goal of his administration to hunt down and kill Bin Laden, to withdraw from Iraq, and to close Gitmo. He came out and said these things point blank, unequivocally and with authority. Even on experience, the most obvious weak link in his campaign, Obama aggressively defended his record and denied the GOP this talking point without a fight. In short, Obama breathed new life and fresh air into a party that seemed unable to win a presidential election.


Now, when you take all that into consideration, I think Obama's hype is pretty easy to explain.

What I take some offense to is the ""cult of personality", "messianic praise" and "adoring masses" rhetoric that keeps being thrown around. Look, Obama is a likeable guy, and what's not to like? Even Bill O'Reilly came away from an interview with Obama impressed with how he handled himself during interviews. Throw in the fact he's a presidential candidate (now president), he's a minority, and he's making incredbile, inspiring speeches, and you have a recipe for media attention.

What I find amusing is this "fear" of Obama's hype translating into an unchecked President with a lapdog media unwilling to criticize him. Look, just consider the popularity of Fox News and ask yourself this question: How likely is it REALLY that Obama could fuck things up and the media NOT report it? The conservative America is not going away. As popular as Obama is, he only won the election by a SLIGHTLY larger margin than that of Bush in 2004. Hell, my fiance' waas griping just the other day about the $145 million price tage of the inauguration ceremonies. And she's not a "conservative nutjob" either... hell I wouldn't have asked her to marry me if she was


In summary, we liberals (center-left in my case, thank you very much) are all very appreciative of your concern. We think it's cute actually. Perhaps this is that "compassionate conservatism" we've been hearing about all these years. Still, I think we can handle the downturn in the hype surrounding our new president. True, it will be hard, but I think we'll manage...


Besides, it's just a small price to pay for the sweet, sweet taste of victory

1/24/2009 1:58:33 AM

wow. that's a big post. i kinda wrote the mcdonalds drive thru exact version of it half a page up, but yeah I agree.

1/24/2009 2:12:29 AM

I'm no more disturbed by the celebrity worship of Obama than I am by the very concept of celebrity worship in general.

In fact, someone worshiping Obama might even be slightly LESS disturbing than someone who worships... say... Miley Cyrus, or Justin Timberlake... because at least Obama is relevant to something outside of "US" magazine. It's getting complete and utter morons, people who would otherwise not touch politics with a ten foot pole, to actually follow political happenings and pay attention to things in the world that actually matter... conveniently, these are the very same people who are also likely far too lazy to actually become active in politics, thus stimulating interest while not quite getting these people interested to the point where their idiocy could actually do harm. From everything I've seen, these people (people on this level of thought, at least... not everyone who is okay with celebrity worship is a liberal obamaniac) constitute the majority of Americans.

Then again, I AM more disturbed by the (slightly) more intellectual demographics that are fawning over him... people who would be more than willing to completely disregard tabloids monitoring whose nude photos just got leaked and who else might have a "baby bump"... people who think for themselves regarding pop culture but aren't quite intellectually independent enough to think for themselves when it comes to politics... these are the ones who can show unquestioning support to a leader and who are willing and able to get politically active. Thankfully these people are a minority amongst the intellectual community (I would hope... though perhaps I'm giving a lot of people more credit than they deserve, which is a distinct possibility), which itself is already a minority.


Short version: It's wrong, but I'm not all that worried about it. There are a lot of things that I'd deem "wrong" in American politics that are far more subversive and powerful.

[Edited on January 24, 2009 at 2:29 AM. Reason : .]

1/24/2009 2:26:46 AM

To address your concerns, I think that the press is already starting to cool off about him. It seems that the White House press pool is already starting to chafe a bit (surprise, surprise). Besides, as President Obama starts making difficult decisions, which he definitely will given the political challenges ahead of him, his popularity is going to start dropping really quickly especially if he plans to continue to try and rule from the center/center-left.

I will start worrying about the blinded masses if he's still got a large and fanatical following when the majority turns against him.

1/24/2009 2:54:11 AM

explain again why its a bad thing that people ACTUALLY LIKE THE PRESIDENT

honestly, are republicans collectively losing their damn minds

oh wait

yes, yes they are

do i find it odd that the dj at the party tonight was talking about obama? yeah, sure

but does it in ANY FUCKING WAY mean obama isn't equipped to be president? fuck no

honestly, keep it up guys, its amusing as fuck to watch you work yourself up into a frenzy, especially since we're only on day 5

-----------------

^care to cite some examples of the cooling?
the only thing i've heard is he went down to kind of meet & greet, and some douche starts trying to hit him with some questions

other than that i haven't noticed a "cooling"

also, why do you assume him making decisions is going to drop the support?

most of the decisions so far are only alienating the folks who already didn't support him (i.e., guantanamo closing pissing off the rabid security-nuts and the foreign abortion funding pissing off the fundies)

[Edited on January 24, 2009 at 3:01 AM. Reason : other than that, how was the play Mrs. Lincoln?]

1/24/2009 2:58:53 AM

Quote :

"why do you assume him making decisions is going to drop the support?"

If he goes more centrist (which seems entirely possible given some of his campaign statements), it could alienate or at least slightly piss off his more very-liberal fans. Or if he leans more far-left, he might piss off some of his more centrist "Obama will unite the nation under change!" type fans.

Even if it's just congress taking some unpopular actions (for example, passing another huge bailout or something similar), the general populace will likely associate any government action with the president/current administration.


Again, though, this whole "is he too popular" question is basically just a debate over the opinions and whims of sheep who let the media tell them what to think, so it's really moot when compared with the bigger problems facing the country.

1/24/2009 3:10:15 AM

Quote :

"explain again why its a bad thing that people ACTUALLY LIKE THE PRESIDENT"

See Bush post 9/11 or do you think it was great that the american public went along with everything he did for the next bit? Liking a president is one thing, giving them uncritical and undying support gets you the patriot act. That said, while I am sick of the constant fawning ("I don't have to worry about my mortgage!!!!") I'm expecting to see the fawning wear off as the realities of presidential authority (or lack thereof) sets in.

1/24/2009 10:13:50 AM

Quote :

"Whats the reason people are blindly supporting everything Obama does? Is it sadly just because "he's not Bush"?"

nail meet hammer

1/24/2009 10:26:04 AM

i cant believe the celeb comment was made. Reagan was a widely know star.

1/24/2009 10:53:10 AM

Quote :

"If Bush used 9/11 to get people to say "yes" to whatever else, ok...that at least makes sense...9/11 was the reason, albeit not a great reason, that people followed along with Bush"

It takes a shock of horror to make everyone fall in love with authority. 9/11 did that for bush. As stated by others, Bush did that for Obama by truely horrifying the American people with his actions: torture, occupation, spending, entitlements, corporate rent-seeking, he did everything people hate about an Imperial presidency and did it unashamedly to excess, all the while proclaiming the opposite rhetoric.

So, yes, I think Bush's Presidency has been more of a disaster than 9/11 was. It certainly has cost more lived and inflicted more physical damage.

1/24/2009 11:24:03 AM

Quote :

"He is almost more of a celebrity than a president, and never in our history has it been like this to this extent"

Like Mussolini and Kennedy
I’m the cult of personality
Cult of personality
Cult of personality


And I love how he characterizes Obama supporters as a "brainwashed cult." Where's the support for that? Youtube videos of dumb Obama-supporters exist? They don't agree with R18? None of that gives us any solid picture of how the support he's experiencing is illegitimate.

1/24/2009 11:39:39 AM

Quote :

"See Bush post 9/11 or do you think it was great that the american public went along with everything he did for the next bit? Liking a president is one thing, giving them uncritical and undying support gets you the patriot act. That said, while I am sick of the constant fawning ("I don't have to worry about my mortgage!!!!") I'm expecting to see the fawning wear off as the realities of presidential authority (or lack thereof) sets in. "

There's a BIG difference between post 9/11 Bush and Obama now, at his best. Bush enjoyed broad bi-partisan support with little questioning of his motivations.

Obama's political support is still primarily democrats, with few people crossing over to help him out.

I don't really see this "cult of personality" Republican18 is talking about. People are rightfully observing the meaning behind the "history" of his election (ie. he is the first merely half-white president), but this so far doesn't really translate to policy support.

Not to mention Obama is actually doing a really good job, compared to Bush.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jyA9nO6YeTXsNAB_DcuTKxAxC1iQD95TJ9KO0
Obama breaks from Bush, avoids divisive stands

[Edited on January 24, 2009 at 12:33 PM. Reason : ]

1/24/2009 12:32:06 PM