I'm home visiting my family for the holidays and our 13-year old family dog, a toy poodle, is on it's way out. My parents took her to the emergency vet last week cause they thought she her condition was grave and that might be it, but she made it through the event and is still kicking. She's got congestive heart failure and an enlarged heart that's putting pressure on her trachea so she has labored breathing. Her stomach is bloated. On the whole though, she doesn't appear to be suffering, though her quality of life is undoubtedly poor. The last three days she's hardly eating, and today she's not even making it outside to go to the bathroom and is going on the carpet which never happens. When should we pull the plug and have her put down? I know this is a decision that varies from person to person, but as someone that hasn't dealt with this before, are there some general guidelines that can help us make this difficult decision. Thanks for your input.

12/27/2008 5:32:17 PM

toughest decision your family will ever make. we had to make the decision two Thanksgivings ago.

[Edited on December 27, 2008 at 5:40 PM. Reason : 3]

12/27/2008 5:40:06 PM

This sounds pretty obvious to me.

Her quality of life is already decreasing, as she's not really eating and can't make it outside. Do you know why her stomach's bloated? It's probably not malnutrition, but more like poor circulation/digestive problems.

I'd go ahead and put her down, as 1) she can't be comfortable and 2) before your family spends thousands of dollars to prolong her life with a currently poor prognosis. Please don't be like one of my family friends, and keep a senile, incontinent, blind dog in the basement for 3 years because they couldn't mentally let it go.

Factors my family used to put our Lab down when I was in college:
1) poor quality of life- couldn't go on walks or make it outside last few days
2) not comfortable- he couldn't get up stairs or onto a couch at all due to arthritis
3) had bone cancer

12/27/2008 5:42:40 PM

Dude I know it's hard with pets. But if you keep her alive and she's suffering, you're keeping her alive for yourself(ves) only, and that is very selfish.

If the dog can get better or can adapt to an illness (like maybe losing a limb or something) I would say keep it alive.

Otherwise do yourselves and your doggy a favor and put her down.

12/27/2008 5:43:31 PM

Quote :

"she's not even making it outside to go to the bathroom and is going on the carpet which never happens"

I don't know if you meant that she doesn't have the strength to get outside or that she's lost control of it, but either way it's probably time.

12/27/2008 5:47:53 PM

Loss of normal body functions is usually the end of the line for pets. Time to say goodbye while you're still in town.

12/27/2008 6:00:22 PM

It's a tough decision to make for your pets. Since our dog was put down several years ago my thinking has changed on it. In the past I had been all for euthanizing suffering animals, but you should also consider that this is the only life your pet has and it's unfair to put a pet "out of its misery" because it's hard for you to watch it struggle. If it were me I'd rather suffer with my pet than lose her early.

I'm sorry your family is faced with making this decision for your dog. If you have any doubts, don't do it because it can't be undone. I think you'll know when's the right time to let her go.

12/27/2008 6:20:51 PM

We went through this with our miniature poodle a few years back. He had trachea problems as well. He had stopped wanting to go out, went potty in the house and just didn't have a good quality of life. What really decided it for my mom was when he started attacking her friends, it was like he didn't even know where he was. Generally if the pet stops eating then it is time. It is their way of letting you know.

12/27/2008 6:27:45 PM

Stop playing God and let them die naturally as nature/God intended. You don't know what's best for a living being in that condition, even though you think you do.

Oh come here let me murder you because you are on your deathbed....***

Did the dog tell you that???


*** As opposed to Oh come here let me hold you till you die because you have been a friend to my family and served them well for 13 years (AND INCREASED THEIR LIFE SPANS)... that's the least I can do now....



[Edited on December 27, 2008 at 7:06 PM. Reason : ]

12/27/2008 6:57:10 PM

This may be rude, but I like to think of this from my own point of view. If I couldn't pee on my own, eat, or breath normally, I'd probably want to be put out of my misery.

12/27/2008 7:33:52 PM

Thanks for your continued support and suggestions. She seems to be doing a little bit better tonight, she ate a little plain white rice and let us know she needed to go out and went outside and did her business. She actually wagged her tail for a few seconds tonight when I was talking to her and I hadn't seen that since being here since Thursday. We'll continue to monitor the situation closely of course, but I think she's at least earned a few more days in my book with her little rebound tonight.

12/27/2008 7:51:04 PM

i would put down my pet the second it started suffering. if her breathing starts to get labored or her pulse rate goes up, she's in pain.

you'll know when it's time. sorry to hear about her .

[Edited on December 27, 2008 at 8:00 PM. Reason : d]

12/27/2008 7:59:45 PM

Quote :

"Stop playing God and let them die naturally as nature/God intended. You don't know what's best for a living being in that condition, even though you think you do. Oh come here let me murder you because you are on your deathbed....*** Did the dog tell you that??? *** As opposed to Oh come here let me hold you till you die because you have been a friend to my family and served them well for 13 years (AND INCREASED THEIR LIFE SPANS)... that's the least I can do now...."

how many pets do you have?

12/28/2008 12:07:08 AM

yes, let them suffer as god intended . you go, god.

12/28/2008 12:40:25 AM

Well, my co-worker mentioned her poodle (all poodle stories...haha) who was having trouble walking once they got hardwood floors. Her first thought was that she was dying...she would lay around, not move, not eat, and just...really not do anything. She did not realize the problems she was having was due to the hardwood floors and once they got some throw rugs, her doggy perked right back up and has been kicking for a year plus. She said they were even considering putting her down but decided against it and are so glad they did because they would have killed her before her time.

[Edited on December 28, 2008 at 12:52 AM. Reason : ...]

12/28/2008 12:51:08 AM

when youre bored with playin with its corpse

12/28/2008 1:01:35 AM

Quote :

"Stop playing God and let them die naturally as nature/God intended. You don't know what's best for a living being in that condition, even though you think you do. Oh come here let me murder you because you are on your deathbed....*** Did the dog tell you that??? *** As opposed to Oh come here let me hold you till you die because you have been a friend to my family and served them well for 13 years (AND INCREASED THEIR LIFE SPANS)... that's the least I can do now...."

I love when absolute stupidity rears it's ugly head on here.

I have to assume you are trolling because nobody could be this dumb.

I am first going to assume that you don't eat meat. Because I am absolutely positive the cow did not invite you to grind him up, grill him, lather him with cheese and condiments, and eat him.

I am sure you will find some way to rationalize how this is somehow not the same, but according to your logic we should never intervene with nature and never "play God" as you put it. I however, believe we are the superior intellectual species (maybe not you) and we thus have the right to intervene in an animal's best interest.

I am sure that if an animal had the mental capacity to want to die, it would probably act on those emotions. I mean, humans are much smarter than animals, and once they get to a certain point, most either want to just die or they get so heavily medicated they cannot feel the pain nor maintain any coherant thoughts. The great thing about people is that at the very least, they are so drugged up that they feel no pain. Animals get no such luxury, because they have some dumbass owner (not intended as a jab at the threadmaker) who keeps them alive with medicine, all while the animal is suffering unimaginably. Now THAT is playing God, and THAT is wrong. If that dog or any animal with conditions such as those you describe was in the wild, he would definitely be dead. But he's not. He's suffering because nature cannot truly take her course while an animal is in someones' living room.

[Edited on December 28, 2008 at 1:37 AM. Reason : ./.]

12/28/2008 1:19:24 AM

True, in the wild for many species they will kill the weak/sick one that is slowing the crew down.

12/28/2008 1:28:23 AM

I.......I...........I.........................I....I....I

12/28/2008 1:51:45 AM

having congestive heart failure alone is pretty shitty. add to it the constant air hunger, and fluid retention.


would you want to lay around bloated, peeing and pooping on yourself while feeling very short of breath.

dying slowly of heart failure is a pretty crappy way to go and when her lungs are so overloaded with fluid that she cant draw a decent breath............let's just say that scenario will rip your heart out if you have to witness it.

12/28/2008 10:00:20 AM

this sucks. my g/f went through this a few weeks ago with a cat that was 15+ years old.

i don't have any advice other than try to follow your head rather than your heart.

12/28/2008 12:12:35 PM

Ryan
being a zookeeper, we have to think of this decision all the time, putting out emotions out of the picture which is very hard to do.
the main things you should think about when the time comes or you think its near is what someone else posted.
quality of life
comfort
eating etc...
glad to hear shes doing slightly better. but you truly know when the time comes that its the right decision.
very hard to do, i am tearing up just thinking of me having to do it to my ferret several years ago but i knew it was the right choice.
in comment to OEP... im not saying your opinion is wrong but even owning a pet is a huge responsibility and it doesnt sound like ryan or his family hasnt done anything but what is best for his pet.

12/28/2008 10:41:18 PM

allow mother nature to play its way out....the dog will go when its time to go.....and then you can be at peace. This is just a part of their life you knew one day would come.

animals are just like humans - we get old and sick - but not euthanize our grandparents when they start to have problems.

12/28/2008 11:27:22 PM

Once again, by taking a wild animal into your house, you have already interfered with Mother Nature. I am not saying it's wrong (I have 3 pets) but it is your absolute duty to not let that animal suffer.

12/28/2008 11:45:40 PM

Ryan, I am very sorry to hear about your family dog. I'm glad she has perked up a bit.

We went through this right at Christmas time with our little dog a few years ago. He was a trooper, but he had a bad cough and his organs were all failing. We took him to the emergency vet and just asked them if there was something they could do to help him feel better. They gave him a shot which really made a difference short term, so he had one really perky morning. I thought he might be okay after all. That evening, though, he stopped following us around the house, had some seizures, and it seemed like he couldn't see. He wouldn't drink. His breathing became really labored, and it was clear he was dying. We started saying our goodbyes and made plans to take him to the vet when they opened the next day to send him peacefully to death. He hung out on the couch that evening with me wheezing, and he died that night in his sleep. I don't think he suffered much, but it's hard to know how much discomfort he had. My Mom had had another little dog prior to that who really, really suffered as he died, and she vowed that she wouldn't let an animal go through that again. It's hard to say goodbye, but you will know when it is time to make the humane decision.

12/29/2008 12:40:52 AM

Quote :

"but not euthanize our grandparents when they start to have problems"

fucking republicans

12/29/2008 12:43:44 AM

Sorry to hear about your dog. Euthanasia is certainly not something fun to think about for the loyal family pet around the holidays. Being in the veterinary field, and a vet-to-be, it's something that we frequently encounter. Pain/stress are physiological responses that we can detect through various means, from physical appearance to measuring levels of certain hormones in the body. The topic of pain and suffering, in regards to animals, makes for good discussion.

Suffering is tough to distinguish as we can only compare it to our own judgement. Say a 21 yr old human track star is in a car wreck and mangles his leg. He is going to be thinking will I ever run again? will they amputate? who will want to marry a cripple? how am I going to pay for this?...etc. However, I have treated horses with severed tendons & blood vessels, exposed bone, and severe blood loss that were still standing there picking grass when they were euthanized. The 21 yr old would definitely not be thinking about a Big-Mac in the same situation, so reasoning is different. Suffering is for you to determine, and I feel that you and your family will know when you have exhausted other options. Then, you may view euthanasia as a treatment.

In your shoes, I would do exactly what you are doing. I would do what I was financially capable of doing to get the animal comfortable and eating, then see what the body can do on its on. However, when the animal stops eating, has difficulty breathing, becomes lethargic, is not responsive to normally stimulating activities, and cannot maintain normal body function...it may be time for you to return your long-time friend's loyalty by considering euthanasia. Best of luck.

12/29/2008 12:45:11 AM

i chose to put my 15 year old shih tzu to sleep in may. he had a fibrosarcoma in his mouth, we removed it once and it grew back twice as fast. the only other option would have been to amputate his entire upper jaw. i blamed myself for his death for almost a week before i accepted that i did the right thing.

12/29/2008 12:45:27 AM

Actually, my Mom has already made me promise not to put her into a "home" because "they won't let you die there." I have to agree with her that when you get to the point where you can't eat or drink and there's no hope of recovery, it's not humane to keep someone alive.

The difference with pets is that we don't really have a way to "keep them comfortable" while nature takes it's course. There is no hospice for pets. So, we do the right thing for them and minimize their suffering if we know the end is imminent.

12/29/2008 12:50:00 AM

I saw Marley & Me last night.

I cried like a little bitch.

12/29/2008 9:31:35 AM

^We keep trying to see that but the Wilmington theatres are retarded and keep posting the wrong times.

Quote :

"by taking a wild animal into your house"

Our cat is about as "wild" as a sofa pillow.

12/29/2008 12:45:31 PM

Yeah ours too.

12/29/2008 3:02:56 PM

If an animal could tell you it wanted to die, would you euthanize it then?

12/29/2008 3:58:15 PM

Of course.

I also firmly believe in assisted suicide, but that's another topic.

12/29/2008 4:14:12 PM

Quote :

"Oh come here let me murder you because you are on your deathbed...."

I, for one, want go out long before I reach the human equivalent of this stage. Besides, we started playing God a long time ago when we began intervening in order to prolong life.


We had to do this last year with my dog. My dog seemed basically happy, but largely senile, couldn't see, couldn't hear, barely could smell, lost control of herself once or twice a week. My mom decided, with the full support of the family, to put her down before she reached the stage of my aunt's dog, whose, on the last day of his life, could neither stand up nor control his bowels. She led a dignified life, we wanted her to have a dignified death.

I held her in my arms as she died. The last thing I did to her before giving her back to my parents was to close her eyes, curl her up like she was asleep, and wrap her in a blanket. . .


Good luck man.

12/29/2008 4:29:54 PM

Quote :

"my Mom has already made me promise not to put her into a "home" because "they won't let you die there.""

research the states that allow assisted suicide and have a plan.

12/29/2008 4:39:19 PM

Quote :

"yes, let them suffer as god intended . you go, god."

haha yeah! Too bad God didn't give us the ability to come up with the technology to do away with suffering on death beds!.....oh wait.

Quote :

"but not euthanize our grandparents when they start to have problems."

but we do give them tons of pain meds and pay for them to be hooked up to life support and keep them alive longer than nature wanted them to be alive...



I'm sorry about what's going on. I've never had to put a pet down though, they've all been killed. Either from being hit by a car or shot. I had a cat fall out of a tree once, and a dog was poisoned. I would rather have to put a pet down and have the ability to be prepared for it then having them ripped away from me.

[Edited on December 29, 2008 at 7:16 PM. Reason : ]

12/29/2008 7:07:29 PM

I was given great advice once about when is the right time. Consider some of your pets most favorite things...pick 3 of its most favorite...that without fail it gets excited for. Walks, food, belly rubs, peanut butter, treats, whatever. When the time arrives when your pet no longer gets excited, has interest or gets enjoyment out of at least 2 of those 3 'favorites' then that is the time. This gives an owner, who knows their pet the best, an easy way to measure it's quality of life. Knowing this also seems to give them peace of mind about their reasons for euthanizing.

1/2/2009 12:07:45 PM

I'm glad my cat just died in her sleep one day. It made things easier in that respect

1/3/2009 6:56:40 AM

I've put two golden retrievers down. One from severe arthiritis and a malignant tumor (17), the other from cancer (14).

Your dog is most likely miserable. You have to look at it as you're doing what's best for the dog. It sucks, but it is humane. With the pain your dog is feeling and the stress in its heart, it will likely not feel the needle or the effects of the injection.

If things stay positive, enjoy the time the dog has left. If things take a turn for the worst, don't let the dog suffer.

1/4/2009 10:57:22 AM

Euthanasia literally means "good death." So give your pet a good death and prevent suffering instead of ending it. Looks like you are too late to prevent suffering, but at least you can end it before it gets worse.

1/4/2009 1:01:26 PM

1/4/2009 3:51:53 PM

we had our dog put down in our back yard. we had a hole dug and everything, put him on a blanket, and the vet came out and put him down. it was much nicer than having to take him to from the vet office...it was sad, but peaceful. you just have to pay the vet a little extra to come out to your house.

1/4/2009 8:55:21 PM

We had to put my cat down in June, and she was 16. I had had her since I was four and it was one of the hardest things I've ever had to witness. One day Molly was fine, and the next day we hadn't seen her all day and I found her underneath my neighbors boat trailer. I got her out and took her home, and she slept in my room with me all night because we live far from an emergency all-night vet. The next morning she was incoherent and she rode in my lap to the vet's office when it opened. I knew it was time because she had no response to being in the car (which she hated), she would just make unrecognizable "meows."

Seachel's post about quality of life helped me see things from a different perspective. I think that is wonderful advice...best of luck...

1/4/2009 11:01:51 PM

When it becomes heavy.

[Edited on January 4, 2009 at 11:48 PM. Reason : .]

1/4/2009 11:48:30 PM