going to get the necessary shots for my two kittens next week. they've already been dewormed, and been tested for feline leukemia. they are indoor cats. what do I absolutely need to get done? I'm sure there are a couple that aren't necessary because they're never outside. and pricing?

12/6/2008 9:55:19 AM

Rabies (you can usually get 3 year ones, but I don't know if you can do that to kittens right off the bat) and FVRCP. Both shots cost a little over $20, or a little under. Even if you cat never goes outside, you have to get a rabies shot (I'm pretty sure its a law, but I could be wrong). And then the vet will charge you an exam fee (mine vet is $47 which in my opinion is too high).

And you'll probably have to do a fecal float (you're supposed to do one every year, its parasites AND worms), but I guess you could probably get your vet to wave it off.

12/6/2008 10:12:13 AM

that's it? just rabies? and yes, that is mandatory.

btw, they're about 4-5 months old. damn near cats.

12/6/2008 10:16:49 AM

Don't need the FIV vaccine.

You do need the FVRCP and rabies.

12/6/2008 10:31:37 AM

At that age if you go with the combo vaccine you'd only need a series of 2, not 3.

FELV boosters are needed yearly, but if you are 100% sure they will not escape you don't need that. The combo shot booster are only needed every 3 years or less, does more harm than good to give them every year so don't let the vet talk you into that.

You can give the combo shots at home to save money, but this is only an option if you know what you are doing, don't need proof of vaccination for a kennel, and order the shots from a reputable supplier.

12/6/2008 10:32:32 AM

are you looking to get them neutered/spayed?


safe haven does neutering/spaying along with the requisite shots and whatnot for 75$

12/6/2008 11:33:28 AM

they are cheap enough that it is worth it just in case that they escape to get everything

12/6/2008 12:17:28 PM

you should get the FeLV shots even if they are indoor cats. that way if they ever get outside they'll have at least some immunity. definitely get the FVRCP and rabies.

they will probably deworm them again. pricing--depends on where you go.

Quote :

" You can give the combo shots at home to save money, but this is only an option if you know what you are doing, don't need proof of vaccination for a kennel, and order the shots from a reputable supplier. "

people who are not trained on how to give injections should never give vaccines.

[Edited on December 6, 2008 at 1:00 PM. Reason : d]

12/6/2008 12:58:44 PM

yes, gonna neuter.

12/6/2008 12:59:46 PM

Quote :

"they are cheap enough that it is worth it just in case that they escape to get everything "

Even if it escapes, they probably won't get those diseases... ask your doctor how many cases/year they have of a housecat getting rabies, or any of those other diseases?

It's mostly to give you peace of mind and to help the vets pay their bills.

12/6/2008 1:11:03 PM

Quote :

"people who are not trained on how to give injections should never give vaccines."

That's why I added the "know what you are doing" part. If you know how, giving a SQ vaccine is extremely easy and I prefer not to submit animals to the stress of a vet visit and vaccine at the same time. Then again, I also prefer food with human grade ingredients and won't use clay litter so I'm sure most people aren't concerned about it.

12/6/2008 1:11:37 PM

Quote :

"Even if it escapes, they probably won't get those diseases... ask your doctor how many cases/year they have of a housecat getting rabies, or any of those other diseases? It's mostly to give you peace of mind and to help the vets pay their bills."

i know

but you know how silly pet owners are

12/6/2008 1:19:04 PM

Quote :

" Even if it escapes, they probably won't get those diseases... ask your doctor how many cases/year they have of a housecat getting rabies, or any of those other diseases?"

you do realize that this is largely due to vaccinations, right? also, rabies is mandated by law.

the cost of the vaccines definitely outweigh the risk you would be taking not having them vaccinated.

Quote :

"It's mostly to give you peace of mind and to help the vets pay their bills"

if vets wanted to pay their bills, they wouldn't do so with a $20 vaccine.

[Edited on December 6, 2008 at 1:23 PM. Reason : d]

12/6/2008 1:21:51 PM

^ with rabies, even wild animals found with it are rare. And even rarer is a housepet coming in contact and getting bitten. Part of the rabies scare though is that IF you pet gets it, it can affect humans too.

But I'd bet that if his cat got lost and never found its why back home, it has a 90% chance of dying of old age or eaten by another animal than dying of one of these diseases.

The costs aren't that much, and i'm not saying don't get them, i'm just saying realistically the VAST majority of people will never come close to having to worry about the things the vaccines would have otherwise prevented.

^ You obviously have no idea how businesses work, 3 $20 vaccines at let's say a 35% profit margin (and i'm guessing it's higher than that actually) per patient is decent money. No vet is going to scoff at that. Profit wise, that's the same thing as a story like Best Buy selling a low-end 32" tube television.

[Edited on December 6, 2008 at 1:30 PM. Reason : ]

12/6/2008 1:26:18 PM

Quote :

"^ You obviously have no idea how businesses work. "

actually, i do.

if we're looking at it from this angle--what brings the money in is sick pets and surgical procedures. sick pets are far more profitable than well pets that are just getting their vaccines updated.

Quote :

"The costs aren't that much, and i'm not saying don't get them, i'm just saying realistically the VAST majority of people will never come close to having to worry about the things the vaccines would have otherwise prevented. "

realistically, no, they probably won't come down with the virus(es). however, this is because the rate of disease has gone down drastically because people vaccinate their animals. plus, i'd rather put down $60 to have my pet UTD on vaccines, rather than risk it and have to fork over $1000 later on down the road due to irresponsibility on my part, and make them suffer through something they shouldn't have to.

[Edited on December 6, 2008 at 1:35 PM. Reason : d]

12/6/2008 1:28:45 PM

Quote :

"if we're looking at it from this angle--what brings the money in is sick pets and surgical procedures. sick pets are far more profitable than well pets that are just getting their vaccines updated."

Fail. Vaccines cost vets about $3 a dose, and they sell them for close to $30. Huge profit margin for pretty much NO extra work if the animal is in for an annual wellness check anyway. The huge profit margin is why most vets try to push yearly vaccines even though dogs can be protected up to 7 years by a single shot and even the AAHA suggests only giving boosters every 3 years or less.

Don't even get me started on vets that try to pinch pennies by using crap vaccines either. I'll only use vaccines from Intervet for my animals, do not want them getting anything with adjuvants in it.

12/6/2008 1:38:00 PM

Quote :

"Fail. Vaccines cost vets about $3 a dose, and they sell them for close to $30. Huge profit margin for pretty much NO extra work if the animal is in for an annual wellness check anyway. The huge profit margin is why most vets try to push yearly vaccines even though dogs can be protected up to 7 years by a single shot and even the AAHA suggests only giving boosters every 3 years or less. "

fail? you think that a yearly wellness appointment is more profitable than a pet coming in that's sick? seriously?

not all vaccines are that cheap--i know this because i order them. if you can't afford the vaccine at a regular vet, go to a low-cost vet or a mobile clinic that does them at a reduced cost. that isn't the point here, the point is that animals should be vaccinated. and i can tell you that my veterinarians push vaccines for the health of the animal, not for business profit. it is in the animal's best interest to be UTD on vaccines, period.

[Edited on December 6, 2008 at 1:43 PM. Reason : d]

12/6/2008 1:42:23 PM

If it's not profitable WTF do they push yearly vaccines when it's proven the animals only need them every 3 years or less? Only reasons could be either ignorance or profit. I doubt vets are ignorant of protocols that have been around for years, so the only explanation left is profit.

Also pisses me off when vets require a heartworm test for cats before giving them heartgard. If the cat is positive, the ONLY treatment is putting them on heartgard and waiting for the worms to die of old age unless there's something new that came out in the last couple years.

12/6/2008 2:00:20 PM

god damn i think i love this woman

I'm Big Business and i approved this message.

12/6/2008 2:18:51 PM

Quote :

"Only reasons could be either ignorance or profit."

some vaccines only last one year (lepto, FeLV, FVRCP, DHPP). it has been shown to be more effective to break the core vaccines (ones that last every 3 years) up so that way they aren't given all at once. it is also wise to have your pet examined once a year--they age faster than we do.

we don't test cats for heartworms at our practice unless they are exhibiting symptoms of heartworms. ideally, all cats and dogs would be tested for them. we don't put cats on heartgard (we like to use revolution because it's more cost effective for the owner, and protects the cats against a myriad of things). just because a cat is indoors does not mean that it is protected from heartworms.

and, again it would be much more profitable to NOT vaccinate the pets, and let them run around and get infected with these illnesses . i don't know why you're so stuck on the profit thing--i can tell you right now that vaccines do not contribute much to meeting our budget.

i'm sorry that you've had some bad experiences at vet practices, but thankfully not all of them are centered around profit.


[Edited on December 6, 2008 at 2:27 PM. Reason : d]

12/6/2008 2:22:25 PM

Quote :

"and, again it would be much more profitable to NOT vaccinate the pets, and let them run around and get infected with these illnesses "

I somehow doubt this. I can't see the revenue from the 1 or 2 extra cases a year coming close to the revenue from the hundreds+ of vaccinations done a year.

12/6/2008 2:57:39 PM

Quote :

"some vaccines only last one year (lepto, FeLV, FVRCP, DHPP)."

Bitch please get off the failboat. :p

Read the AAHA guidelines. The FVRCP and DHPP last at least 3 years. DP lasts for 7, and those are the only two that are a real threat. Intervet just put out a new FVRCP that's even labeled for use every 3 years! Lepto vaccine only lasts 6 months and is a MAJOR cause of vaccine reactions. It's almost useless to give it yearly, I made sure to get vaccines without it or corona.

What vet do you work for? I need to avoid them.

12/6/2008 3:10:22 PM

^^again, the only reason why the incidence of disease is lowered is because of responsible pet owners vaccinating their pets. the diseases that are covered under the vaccines are still fairly common in feral cat populations.

we do our vaccines based on AAHA recommendations. i'm glad that you've found information on the internet to make you an expert on this subject, but i happily follow the vaccine protocol that our medical director has recommended.

Quote :

"What AAHA recommends: For many vaccines the recommendation is still to vaccinate adult dogs annually. Other vaccines have proven safe and effective following a triennial administration."

we only use DHPP as a yearly vaccine--puppies get it every 3-4 weeks, and again at their yearly booster. the only other instance it's used is when a dog falls out of rotation (they skip a year or two). we break up the vaccines because the danger for a vaccine reaction is greater when the vaccines are given together.

Quote :

"Lepto vaccine only lasts 6 months and is a MAJOR cause of vaccine reactions."

there is no evidence that proves that lepto is a "MAJOR" cause of vaccine reactions. in fact, it had a vaccine reaction rate of 0.3%, no more than the rabies virus. and no, the lepto vaccine lasts for a year. the AAHA recommends the leptospirosis vaccine, but recommends against corona, giardia, and canine adenovirus-1.



[Edited on December 6, 2008 at 3:45 PM. Reason : d]

12/6/2008 3:38:44 PM

Oh yes, you KNOW I found all my info on the internet. Never occurred to you that vet continuing ed courses are open to the public?

12/6/2008 4:40:38 PM

Just a couple minor notes:

Quote :

"And then the vet will charge you an exam fee (mine vet is $47 which in my opinion is too high)."

No, not all vets will charge a exam on top of it. I know several that as long as you are bringing them in for a vaccine they'll do a free exam check over.

Quote :

"there is no evidence that proves that lepto is a "MAJOR" cause of vaccine reactions. in fact, it had a vaccine reaction rate of 0.3%"

No, lepto DOES have significant vaccine reactions. In the 5 years I've been working I've seen dozens of lepto reactions per year and maybe 1-2 rabies. That's it. Your definition of 'major' may be different, but I'm just saying its more than any other vaccine currently given.

12/6/2008 5:02:24 PM

bitchplease, you're forgetting that lewoods is always right

I have a question about this.

Quote :

"we break up the vaccines because the danger for a vaccine reaction is greater when the vaccines are given together. "

So let's say for example I'm getting rabies, FeLV, and I dunno, something else done. Do you mean these will be done on a rotating schedule? Such as:

year 1: rabies
year 2: FeLV
year 3: whatever the other thing is

Just curious.

They don't offer the rabies vaccine here for cats. It's going to be a pain in the ass when I have to get them vaccinated to return to the States

12/6/2008 5:03:31 PM

^No, it shouldn't be, coming to the United States is easy.

Now, trying to take a pet with you out of the states is difficult. Many countries such as England and Japan have no incidences of rabies and they want to keep it that way.

12/6/2008 5:07:08 PM

I didn't say the actual transport was going to be difficult. Finding them the rabies shot will be

12/6/2008 5:16:09 PM

oh, ok. gotcha.

12/6/2008 5:35:08 PM

My cat is indoors only and only exposed to other vaccinated cats. He tends to have severe vaccine reactions, so the vet lets us get the minimum vaccines without complaint. You only HAVE to get rabies, it's a state law regardless of what state you live in. And the first year, you can only get a 1 year rabies vaccine. After that you can get the three years, but they have a higher chance of having a reaction. The vet will tell you that you need all this other crap, but when it comes down to it an indoor cat has like 0.01% chance of getting any of it. In addition, the more vaccines your cat gets, and the more often (they make you get them every year, but no tests prove that they wear off in one year) they get them, the higher likelihood of reactions, allergies, and intolerance towards the shots they can become.

12/6/2008 6:01:20 PM

lewoods, i attend continuing vet ed courses, and have yet to hear anything similar to what you're talking about.

Quote :

" No, lepto DOES have significant vaccine reactions. In the 5 years I've been working I've seen dozens of lepto reactions per year and maybe 1-2 rabies. That's it. Your definition of 'major' may be different, but I'm just saying its more than any other vaccine currently given."

Quote :

"There is no evidence that vaccines against lepto are more likely to cause adverse reactions than any other routine canine vaccine. A recent publication (Moore et al. JAVMA 2005;227:1102-1108) reported on data from 3,439,576 vaccine doses given to dogs. The lepto vaccine in combination with DAPP had an adverse reaction rate of 28.8/10,000, or less than 0.3%. This was no different than the rabies or coronavirus vaccines."

http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/rdvm/lepto.asp

Quote :

" So let's say for example I'm getting rabies, FeLV, and I dunno, something else done. Do you mean these will be done on a rotating schedule? Such as:"

sorry, i should've clarified a bit. we rotate the core vaccines only. the FeLV vaccine is a yearly vaccine.

at our practice, it goes:
rabies, FPV, FVRC, with FeLV being yearly for all outdoor cats.

Quote :

"Finding them the rabies shot will be "

i'd imagine that if you can't find it, they'd place your animals in quarantine for at least 10 days, which is $$$.


[Edited on December 6, 2008 at 6:46 PM. Reason : d]

12/6/2008 6:37:01 PM

^ I was told it can be up to a month, which would just be cruel to the kitties

I know a practice that can give the shots but it's a two hour train ride with yowling cats in tow I'll probably just notifying their current vet way in advance what I need done and see if he can order the shots.

12/6/2008 9:22:03 PM

Quote :

"at our practice, it goes: rabies, FPV, FVRC, with FeLV being yearly for all outdoor cats. "

That's not as bad. looked in your first post like they were suggesting yearly FVRCP. Dividing up the FVRC and FPV vaccines is only a good idea if you use vaccines without adjuvants. Otherwise the cat is getting twice the amount of adjuvants for the same vaccination, worse instead of better. Adjuvants make me sad.

12/6/2008 10:51:25 PM

If you want your vaccines to be free of adjuvants, ask your vet for the Purevax vaccines. My vet has the purevax rabies and will be getting the purevax leukemia soon. The purevax rabies is currently only labeled as a one year vaccine, but they are working on making it a three year.
The leukemia vaccine is up to the owner, but is highly recommended for any cat that goes outside.
The FVRCP can become a three year vaccine as long as the cat has received it's kitten boosters and at least one annual shot. I have seen a dog that had distemper and it was even more sad than one with parvo! The only way to help it was euthanasia so it was no longer suffering.
If you don't want to pay for the fecal exam, but are concerned the cat may have parasites, then ask to have just a dewormer instead. There are different kinds of parasites that require different dewormers, that is why a fecal exam is important. Some parasites can be passed to humans, like giardia.
The annual exam is important not only for the health of your pet, but you cannot get any prescription medicine without an up to date exam.
If you don't want things done to your animal, then just say so and the vet has to honor that. Rabies is the only thing required by law like stated above. Just don't be assholes about it because vets are not all about profit! I don't know any vet that paid an ass load of money to go to vet school because they thought they would become rich in the profession. They go because the care about the animals. Vets do not make that much money unless they own their own practice!!

12/7/2008 1:05:43 PM

i'm not gonna wade through all the shit in here, but...

Quote :

"Rabies (you can usually get 3 year ones, but I don't know if you can do that to kittens right off the bat) "

you have to get the 1 year rabies vaccine first, then after that you can do the 3 year version.

12/8/2008 9:03:35 AM

The incidence of anaphylactic reaction to the lepto vaccine is higher than most vaccines given to dogs. A lot of vets have just quit giving it because of this. It's also worth mentioning that the vaccine is nearly useless regardless. It's function is to be protective against clnical signs, not against actual infection. Most dogs when tested will be serologically positive for lepto with or without the vaccination. A lot of dogs are asymptomatic carriers of the organism. Similarly there are a number of different serovars (or types) associated with the organism that the generic lepto vaccine given to dogs doesn't protect for. There's controversy about whether the vaccine is even worth giving no matter the prevalence of lepto in your area. The best thing to do is keep your dogs away from small ponds and stagnant water or at least have a discussion with your vet about whether it's necessary and why.

12/8/2008 1:15:05 PM

I figured I would post in this thread, instead of just starting a new one. This is a dog and cat question. My sister is fostering a puppy, and he has a stomach virus. He has been to the vet, and he's on twice daily antibiotics. She's going to Wisconsin tomorrow, and needs someone to keep him for the week. My other sister was going to, but she has a dog, and doesn't want her to get sick (understandably). So, my question is: is there any way that a stomach virus in a dog can cause my kittens to be sick?

I would love to help my sister out, but not at the expense of our cats. I know for most dog and cat diseases, they're species specific, but I don't know anything about stomach viruses. What do all you vet people think?

12/11/2008 12:39:50 PM

Quote :

"Rabies (you can usually get 3 year ones, but I don't know if you can do that to kittens right off the bat)"

If you get rabies make sure its the adjuvent free one and I think this is a one year deal; at least when I was a vet tech 4 or 5 years ago this form of rabies was only in a one year booster. I can't remember why the adjuvent free one must be used, but I do recall that it was serious if the cat got sick from the three year one.

12/11/2008 4:29:11 PM