OK, so here's the deal. I am 29 (almost 30.... ack), and my wife is 28. We don't have any children. We got married at a pretty young age (I was 20, she was 19) and we had a mutual agreement that we would never have kids.

Now, 10 years down the road, things have changed a little.... a lot actually. My wife has definitely changed her mind on the matter, and my stance on the subject has pretty much remained the same. I definitely don't blame her at all for changing her mind, I mean honestly how many people do know what they want for sure at that age. She isn't putting any pressure on me to have children either, but it is very obvious she feels like she is missing something in her life, which in turn makes me put plenty of pressure on myself.

The real issue I am having is I just don't know if I ever want children. I mean, I really enjoy being around my friends' kids and my relatives, but that is for a short time. I always seem to be the "fun guy" that other people's kids like, probably because I play with them and actually pay attention to them, which is easy because it's not an everyday thing for me to be around kids. On the flip side, however, I absolutely cannot stand the sound of a whining or screaming child. Plus, I really like having my wife's undivided attention, which I know would never happen if we had a kid (yes I know that is selfish, but it is the truth.) And perhaps most of all, I am an absolute neat/organizational freak, which after seeing other houses, seems to be impossible.

Everyone who I talk to says nobody is ever "ready" to have kids but when you have them, they are the best thing in the world. My mom and my dad (and step-mom and step-dad) and my grandparents and in-laws are ALWAYS hinting around that we need to have children. I just don't know if I am ready, or if I will ever be. Plus, a kid is something you can't undo. So, the whole point of me posting is to see if there are any other guys on here who might have had feelings like mine but had kids anyway, and how it turned out. (I don't wanna sound like a dick, but I don't really need advice from anyone who doesn't have children.) Thanks in advance for any replies.

11/9/2008 10:52:58 PM

I am not a guy. However, my husband is and had similar feelings.

It wasn't that he never wanted to have children. It's just that his parents didn't have children until they were in their early 40s, so he thought that he would do the same. I felt differently. My mom was also in her 40s, and I wanted to be young enough to enjoy my children.

So I got pregnant. My husband was not thrilled that I was pregnant and had a great deal of misgivings about having a child.

But Silas got here. Silas has a lot of health problems. He's not a child that anyone would ask for. But my husband ADORES him. Like, my husband is one of the most stand offish and serious people that I have ever met. He is not very affectionate, but. . .Wow. With Silas, he is like a completely different person. My husband, who didn't have a lot of experience with children or have any great desire for them, is so in love with Silas and already wants to have more.

It is absolutely true that you are never ready to have children and I don't think that you're actually ready when they get here. But once you have them, there isn't a thing in the world like them. If you think that you have ever loved anyone else, you just don't know until you have a kid.

And on the practical side of things, who is going to care for you and your wife in your twilight years? If you were to die first, wouldn't you want someone there for your wife?

AND. . .my older brother is OBSESSIVELY neat, FREAKISHLY SO. But he has a daughter and everything is ok. Their house is still neat as a pin. They have taught my niece to pick up after herself and my brother has learned to relax a little bit.

[Edited on November 9, 2008 at 11:10 PM. Reason : .]

11/9/2008 11:08:06 PM

if you don't give her a kid someone else will

11/9/2008 11:16:42 PM

I'm a guy. I'm looking forward to having children. I've wanted to have children to teach, shape their morals, and help ensure there are some good people in the world before I die.

There are the "trivial" things as well (want a boy to play catch with, a girl to spoil, to watch my offspring graduate high school/college/etc, have grandchildren/etc), but its mostly a more self-centered way of passing on my morals/beliefs to the next generation. I also want to do what I can to make sure there aren't only stupid people left breeding (a la Idiocracy). I hate whining or screaming children, but I know I won't let my child be an annoying one (at least I really hope).

I also doubt any of this will convince yourself one way or another, if if you don't don't want children, it doesn't sound that you're that opposed to it.

11/9/2008 11:33:33 PM

(I don't wanna sound like a dick, but I don't really need advice from anyone who doesn't have children.)

^^ http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=488744&page=18#12218938

[Edited on November 9, 2008 at 11:50 PM. Reason : ]

11/9/2008 11:48:41 PM

I am a chick and feel the exact same way at 28.

11/9/2008 11:50:29 PM

I don't have any kids

I'm walls1441 and i approved this message.

[Edited on November 9, 2008 at 11:55 PM. Reason : that i know of]

11/9/2008 11:54:59 PM

Quote :

"Everyone who I talk to says nobody is ever "ready" to have kids but when you have them, they are the best thing in the world."

This is true, at least for me. I never contemplated having a child, it was supposed to be a non issue. I ended up having one (unplanned) and he's the best thing ever. It's also pretty neat for people to point out similar physical features.

For a while, before birth, I worried about costs (my personal life - hey I'm selfish what can I say, education, food, etc...). I now know those worries were unfounded. While I am slightly concerned about costs, I know for certain that I would bear anything for him. I didn't know I had that kind of love/compassion/empathy/etc... in me, till I had a kid.

I now know what kind of love my parents feel for me. I never knew that, until I had something of my own that depended on me for everything. Holding in my arms after they had cut the cord, it was incredible. I had never EVER felt that way in my life.

I never wanted kids, never liked them. I didn't like being around other people's kids either. I thought they were a nuisance and unworthy of my attention. I still feel that way (well, to brats anyway).

As I look back on it, it's good that I had one now, when I'm young and have the energy to chase him around the yard or teach him sports, etc... I'd hate to be ones of those old bastards who choose to have kids when their eggs are rotten or their sperm loses it's motility.

Quote :

"And on the practical side of things, who is going to care for you and your wife in your twilight years? "

On the practical side of things, the money you would have saved by not having a kid would allow you to have a live in attendant/nurse, so that's not really a concern (unless you work a min. wage job).

Quote :

"If you were to die first, wouldn't you want someone there for your wife?"

I figure Jose the gardener would fill that role well.

Quote :

"And perhaps most of all, I am an absolute neat/organizational freak, which after seeing other houses, seems to be impossible."

You'll change (after you have a kid of course), if you don't, one of you (the wife or you) will break and I'm sure it won't be her.

Her biological clock is ticking and she obviously isn't career driven/extreme type A personality, so it's normal for her to want to fill a void in her life. Does the child need to be biologically yours or are you able to adopt? Based on your comments I'd recommend one of the older models (but not old enough to have ingrained bad habits) that are already housebroken and can clean up after themselves. That would kill two birds...

[Edited on November 10, 2008 at 12:47 AM. Reason : d]

11/10/2008 12:46:39 AM

Quote :

"Based on your comments I'd recommend one of the older models (but not old enough to have ingrained bad habits) that are already housebroken and can clean up after themselves."

This had me lol

11/10/2008 8:21:03 AM

Quote :

"And perhaps most of all, I am an absolute neat/organizational freak, which after seeing other houses, seems to be impossible."

I promise you my mom is a worse neat freak and had no problem imposing her OCD issues on our house and the members of my immediate family. That should be the least of your worries.

Just because other people choose to leave rotting food in the sink, dirty shoes on the kitchen table, and month-old fruit in the refrigerator doesn't mean you have to. Plenty of people decide to do these things and don't even have children.

11/10/2008 8:35:27 AM

^ Whose houses have you been hanging out in?

11/10/2008 8:55:51 AM

One day you might be old and shitting yourself in a nursing home, both of your parents will be dead, you might think how nice it would be to have some family calling to check on you or coming by to visit. Especially if you outlive your wife or if she has left you for some reason.

11/10/2008 8:59:53 AM

Quote :

"Especially if you outlive your wife or if she has left you for some reason."

like not having kids.

11/10/2008 10:03:37 AM

Quote :

"One day you might be old and shitting yourself in a nursing home, both of your parents will be dead, you might think how nice it would be to have some family calling to check on you or coming by to visit. Especially if you outlive your wife or if she has left you for some reason."

Better a couple years of misery at the end when all you can do is shit yourself anyway, than take out the prime years of your life to care for spawn.

I figure I'll find some kid that hates it's parents when they are late teens, treat them half decent and have someone to care for me when I am old without the expense or time commitment of having my own kid, which might possibly leave me out to dry. I know my parents will NEVER move in with me after the way they have treated me.

11/10/2008 10:23:25 AM

Quote :

"so he thought that he would do the same. I felt differently. My mom was also in her 40s, and I wanted to be young enough to enjoy my children. So I got pregnant. My husband was not thrilled that I was pregnant and had a great deal of misgivings about having a child."

women like you scare the everloving hell out of me. i hope im taking this out of context and that you all talked about it first before ""(you) got pregnant"

11/10/2008 10:52:33 AM

Quote :

"i hope im taking this out of context and that you all talked about it first before ""(you) got pregnant""

If she didn't, she's a horrible person who shouldn't have children in the first place.

11/10/2008 11:40:00 AM

Although I do not have children, someone in my family went through a situation like this. My cousin Renee was married to a man that had children from his first marriage, and didn't want to have any more. After about 10 years of being together they just suddenly split, and a few months later she was pregnant with sperm bank (or anon donor?) baby. As crudely as Nastoute put it, I think he's right.
You really need to look at this in the context of your relationship with your wife. You got married very young; Have you grown together or apart? Are you willing to sacrifce a spotless house and undivided attention to make your wife happy? She obviously loves you because SHE WANTS TO HAVE YOUR BABY; That's a good thing!
All that being said, I think she will grow to resent you if you aren't willing to compromise on some level. And no offense, it sounds like you need to stop being a manchild whining b/c you'll have to share her attention and your toys might get messed up.

Sorry if this comes off harsh, but I'm sure your wife has made a lot of sacrafices for you over the years, maybe you need to consider what this is doing to her.

11/10/2008 11:40:48 AM

Quote :

"women like you scare the everloving hell out of me. i hope im taking this out of context and that you all talked about it first before ""(you) got pregnant""

I didn't want to be the first to say anything, but I feel the same. This should be an exception where a guy can get out of marriage free and never pay a penny of child support. Is also a perfect example of why guys NEED to use condoms even when the woman claims she "is taking the pill." Hope feebleminded is using condoms, if not you are probably gonna be a baby daddy soon.

I guess this was why my boyfriend's response to me getting fixed was "OMG let's get married"

11/10/2008 11:49:35 AM

Quote :

"Sorry if this comes off harsh, but I'm sure your wife has made a lot of sacrafices for you over the years, maybe you need to consider what this is doing to her."

WTF? And he hasn't made sacrifices for her? You are obviously another baby crazy hormonal female, giving the rest of us a bad name.

Baby crazy women will have any man's child. She only wants to have his because she is already married, if she were not she'd be out fucking a homeless bum to get preggo. Don't make it sound like she loves him because she wants kids, it's the opposite. She is being selfish and wanting to make him do something they agreed they never would.

11/10/2008 11:55:39 AM

Best advice I can give (from a man with a 15 month old) is don't ever listen to lewoods

11/10/2008 12:16:50 PM

Paging theDuke866... theDuke866 you are needed ITT.

11/10/2008 12:19:35 PM

In all honesty, she is probably a little bored with her life lately. Perhaps she is seeking a greater sense of purpose.

In reality, if she really is wanting a child and you hold firm to your stance she will either A) Leave or B) Stay and be resentful for the rest of her life with you.

11/10/2008 12:26:56 PM

Maybe you should just get her a puppy.

11/10/2008 12:41:42 PM

haha I was thinking the puppy thing too.

You need to have a serious talk with her that will last several nights and find out her true wants and intentions. If you avoid it she's going to think you're dense because she has been so obvious, and things will get progressively worse between you.

11/10/2008 12:48:38 PM

Quote :

"guys NEED to use condoms even when the woman claims she "is taking the pill.""

truer words were never spoken.

Quote :

" You need to have a serious talk with her that will last several nights and find out her true wants and intentions."

true. some people think kids will fill a hole in their lives, but something else could fill that void just as well and not be so time intensive. volunteering, fostering, etc...

Quote :

"So I got pregnant. My husband was not thrilled"

Having kids is a two person thing. What you did was selfish and could have destroyed your marriage. Sickening.

[Edited on November 10, 2008 at 1:01 PM. Reason : judging.]

11/10/2008 1:00:12 PM

if you don't give her a kid someone else will

11/10/2008 1:19:45 PM

I hear bottombaby pokes holes in condoms and lies about taking birth control.

Using kids as leverage ftl.

11/10/2008 1:37:26 PM

PEOPLE PEOPLE PEOPLE

Don't go assuming things. I worded my post poorly.

My husband and I talked about getting pregnant before hand. We had pre-conception doctors appointments and I went off of the pill with his blessing. He was just very hesitant about all of it. Also, neither one of us thought that I would get pregnant so quickly. I got pregnant the very first time that we had sex without birth control. So it was shocking, for both of us. Neither of us were initially thrilled because it all happened too quickly. We both thought that it would take us several months to get pregnant, but all he had to do was breathe on me.

I would have never gone behind his back to get pregnant. That is unethical. However, I had no qualms about trying with his blessing even though he was still all out of sorts about it. Josh and I were talking recently and he said that we could start trying again any time that I wanted to because he'd have 9 months to get use to the idea. Which I think was probably the same idea that he had with my first pregnancy.

[Edited on November 10, 2008 at 1:52 PM. Reason : .]

11/10/2008 1:51:11 PM

Lewoods, you are an idiot. I am not a baby crazy female or whatever you want to call me so STFU. FTR I'm not even sure I want kids!

I'm sure that he has made sacrifices to be with her, but what is going on now is something that won't go away. If he refuses to compromise on the topic she will grow to resent him and it may ultimately be the demise of the relationship. She prolly wants to have a baby with him b/c they are getting a bit older, been married for a while, have a good relationship, and have a good situation to bring a baby into, not psycho bum-fucking you envision.

I also don't think she is being selfish...how many things have you changed your mind about since you were 19??? I can't even begin...

I'm sorry your vision of women in general is so bleak. Maybe you should get psychological help or just start cutting youtself.

11/10/2008 1:51:17 PM

lewoods - proof that darwin's theories work

11/10/2008 2:22:14 PM

Your cousin that you used as an example is exactly what I talk about. Only instead of bum fucking she went to a sperm bank, same difference. You used her as an example of needing to give a woman a kid, but she's the perfect example of a baby crazy psycho. Which obviously you find perfectly acceptable.

I knew since I was 14 I never wanted kids. Has not changed. I got fixed, but there's a 2% lifetime failure rate, so once the boyfriend gets better insurance he'll be getting snipped too (his choice, he hates kids almost as much as me and definitely never wants any).

11/10/2008 2:25:07 PM

my husband was more excited than I was when we found out I was pregnant...
I've always wanted to have children but wanted to wait a few more years. We weren't ready financially but we've made it work.

Good friends of ours who have sworn up and down that they'll never want children have recently started discussing it. They're in the same situation as you. I think the wife is more for it than the husband but they're considering it. Not now.. but perhaps a few years down the road.

Having children is not something to take lightly. It's a HUGE responsibility, completely life changing and expensive. Continue discussing it with your wife.

11/10/2008 2:31:51 PM

Quote :

"You are obviously another baby crazy hormonal female, giving the rest of us a bad name."

So because many many females out there want to have children they give the minority of females a bad name? I guess all the males out there that want children as much as females give the rest of females a bad name too

Quote :

"On the flip side, however, I absolutely cannot stand the sound of a whining or screaming child."

Parents can easily not have a child that acts this way. The kids I nanny for have a child that is 8 and still throws tantrums. Trying to find out if this is normal I asked my parents when I stopped throwing them, and they said I probably threw my last real tantrum around the age of 3 by then I learned that I get nothing and if they decided to give me attention for my tantrum I often would a negative reaction from them.
It's hard to raise good behaving children, but much more rewarding than raising children who constantly scream, yell, cry, and beg.

[Edited on November 10, 2008 at 2:34 PM. Reason : ]

11/10/2008 2:31:53 PM

Quote :

"lewoods - proof that darwin's theories work"

And damn proud of it. A certain level of stupid is required to be the most fit in Darwinian terms. No fucking way am I gonna have more kids than some welfare baby momma just to prove that I am more evolutionarily fit. I'll enjoy my life and all the nice things I can buy myself, promote voluntary human extinction, and laugh at the people that are more "fit" and scraping by on welfare with a half dozen kids to feed.

Evolution does not favor intelligence or enjoying your own life, which are my personal goals. I'll gladly screw the next generation out of a couple above average kids, since there's no way I could win a baby war with the welfare mommas and illegal immigrants. Think about your life goals, they do not make you evolutionarily fit unless you plan on using the Duggars as a personal role model.

11/10/2008 2:33:44 PM

Quote :

"No fucking way am I gonna have more kids than some welfare baby momma just to prove that I am more evolutionarily fit. I'll enjoy my life and all the nice things I can buy myself, promote voluntary human extinction, and laugh at the people that are more "fit" and scraping by on welfare with a half dozen kids to feed. "

I think you're a little confused. There are plenty of people with children that are not on welfare.

11/10/2008 2:37:17 PM

Quote :

"I think you're a little confused. There are plenty of people with children that are not on welfare."

You are confused.

Look at the people that are the most "fit" aka have the most kids that will then go on to have lots of kids. They are mostly illegal immigrants and welfare recipients. Evolutionary fitness is about how many kids you have that will then go on to have kids, etc. How far you can spread your genes. You will have a hard time arguing that the people with generations of huge families do not rely on gov. assistance. Every single fucking spawner gets gov. assistance in the form of a tax credit and free school for the brats. Most of the ones with lots of kids get WIC, welfare, medicaid, or a bunch of gov. money to help with their spawn. I'd love to eliminate this, discouraging people from having kids so they can live off welfare, and encouraging a higher level of intelligence in future generations.

11/10/2008 2:47:26 PM

Show some courtesy and take your petty argument elsewhere. I feel sure this is exactly what FeebleMinded was trying to avoid.

11/10/2008 2:51:19 PM

Quote :

"WTF? And he hasn't made sacrifices for her? You are obviously another baby crazy hormonal female, giving the rest of us a bad name. Baby crazy women will have any man's child. She only wants to have his because she is already married, if she were not she'd be out fucking a homeless bum to get preggo. Don't make it sound like she loves him because she wants kids, it's the opposite. She is being selfish and wanting to make him do something they agreed they never would."

no, really, shut your psychologically dysfunctional mouth. there is a difference between being 'baby crazy' and being driven to do what you are biologically programmed to do. it's not selfish to want to do something you agreed to never do several years down the line. people live, values change and goals change. it's not a random decision she hasn't given any thought to--she's had a decade to think about it.

and i say that as someone who loves other people's kids..not so much on having my own.

Quote :

"women like you scare the everloving hell out of me. i hope im taking this out of context and that you all talked about it first before ""(you) got pregnant""

you say it like there are no legal avenues for a man to get out of a marriage or out of raising a kid he didn't want in the first place without paying with an arm, a leg and 1/2 his paycheck.

[Edited on November 10, 2008 at 2:55 PM. Reason : oh, and good luck, feebleminded...whatever you end up doing]

11/10/2008 2:53:34 PM

I can't say that this was the final blow in their marriage, as I am not that close to her and do not know all of the circumstances behind the divorce. I WILL say that if she really wanted a child, and he was 100% shut down to the idea, then I can see where problems would arise. Being married is a constant state of negotiation and if one party shuts down all communication, how can it thrive? This could happen over issues that aren't even as substatial as children.

I don't see the problem with what my cousin did. Her husband obviously did not value her needs and wants, did not consider her an equal partner in the relationship, so she left a one-sided relationship. She had a child with a willing donor and moved on. As long as she can take care of the child and herself, who's losing out?


So you've known that you don't ever ever want children and had yourself fixed; good for your for realizing what YOU want...Now shut up and let other people do the same, whether you agree or not.

11/10/2008 3:04:15 PM

Quote :

"and being driven to do what you are biologically programmed to do"

so you'll let my wife know it's cool i went out and screwed a bunch of younger women?

11/10/2008 3:15:22 PM

Quote :

"Being married is a constant state of negotiation and if one party shuts down all communication, how can it thrive? This could happen over issues that aren't even as substatial as children."

Not wanting a kid is NOT shutting down all communication. It's a huge issue, NOT one you push someone into agreeing to because it's what you want.

Is my boyfriend just as justified in leaving me if he wants a Ferrari and I tell him to STFU because they are too expensive? He's male, they are biologically programmed to want one. Sexy curves and all that shit. I mean, I'm denying him what every man should have because I'd rather pay off a house or do something more practical with the money. It's a big lifestyle choice, just like having a kid.

[Edited on November 10, 2008 at 3:24 PM. Reason : ]

11/10/2008 3:20:36 PM

I never said that you should push anyone into anything. I AM saying that if one party won't even consider your feelings, maybe you should look into whether the relationship is worth continuing.

And a car isn't the same as a child. You can't sell a child (legally anyway).

11/10/2008 3:37:21 PM

Quote :

"Is my boyfriend just as justified in leaving me if he wants a Ferrari and I tell him to STFU because they are too expensive? He's male, they are biologically programmed to want one. Sexy curves and all that shit. I mean, I'm denying him what every man should have because I'd rather pay off a house or do something more practical with the money. It's a big lifestyle choice, just like having a kid. "

Your smiley not withstanding, I think you were exposed to too much testosterone in you'r mother's womb. You can tell if you have large genitalia (labia, clitoris) and/or if your index finger is longer than the one next to the pinkie. It is ok, it is "normal", though definitely not common. Hence, your unconventional views, like equating cars and babies.

11/10/2008 4:06:01 PM

Thanks to everyone who replied to the post, and to the people who have pm-med me. I can definitely say I appreciate "most" of the posts. Without getting too much off topic, I can promise that my wife is not going to leave me or go behind my back and get pregnant with another guy. We've been together since I was 16, and through 2 years of not being together due to the military, and for several very tough years at the beginning of our marriage. We have a really good relationship now, which has resulted in no small part due to compromise and communication. She has made it very clear that she wants a child, but at the same time she has also said she would never have one if she knew I was doing it just for her.

We compromised when we bought a house, and when we bought a car. We compromise whenever I change duty stations. But having children....not something you compromise on. It HAS to be something that both people are 100% onboard with. I think if a girl were to intentionally get pregnant without their partners consent, it is pretty much the same as a guy replacing her birth control with a placebo if HE wanted a baby but she was not ready. Personally, I would rather my wife have an affair than to intentionally get pregnant without my consent (although I am confident neither of those would ever happen.) I think people take having a child too lightly, with either not being financially or emotionally ready, or their relationship is just not strong enough to have a kid. If and when I ever have a child, I want to be the best dad in the world. I want my kid to know he/she is loved and I want to do all the things right that I have seen done wrong to other children.

Once again thanks for the replies (especially Seotaji).

[Edited on November 10, 2008 at 4:23 PM. Reason : ()]

11/10/2008 4:23:29 PM

Quote :

"so you'll let my wife know it's cool i went out and screwed a bunch of younger women?"

i would tell her it's cool if you agreed never to again and, after a long period of consideration, decided that's what does it for you...yes.

[Edited on November 10, 2008 at 5:07 PM. Reason : there is that whole "communicate about it first" thing, kthx.]

11/10/2008 5:07:06 PM

np man, i've been there, it's crazy.

Quote :

"As long as she can take care of the child and herself, who's losing out?"

not to rain on anyone's parade, but the child ends up losing out. a child without a healthy male influence is a sad one. a grandparent or uncle is NOT the same.

11/10/2008 5:12:49 PM

I'm confused as to what the purpose of getting married is other than starting a family or filing taxes together.

[/insensitive comment]

11/10/2008 5:36:52 PM

Everyone keeps saying "You will want kids! You're only 25!!!" I mean, that may be true, but I don't want any now and I don't see it changing anytime soon.

11/10/2008 6:02:20 PM

I always find it interesting that the men that are like "I don't know if I'm ready" are usually the ones that are in total awe of their child the second they are born, and cannot dream of what made them wonder IF they wanted a child.
I don't know a single man who had a second of regret after holding their child for the first time (speaking of married couples, not oops babies).

As for the screaming and whining bit, I am the same way if it is a stranger's child - but it doesn't bother me even a little bit for children that I love (close friends, family, etc).

11/10/2008 6:19:16 PM

Quote :

"oops babies"

haha

claire, will you have my 'oops' baby?

11/10/2008 6:21:22 PM