http://www.greenpacks.org/2008/09/05/global-cooling-in-kenya/

Quote :

"There was a hailstorm in Kenya, about 220km from Nairobi. The heavy hailstorm fell on a deforested hillside in Gikingi Village. Snow followed to children’s delight and snowmen were … well, nothing about the snowmen. Not enough of the white stuff. But perhaps for the first time ever, Kenyans discovered what a cold drink tastes like, no? “I have not seen such a thing ever since I was born,” said one resident of Nyahururu. “The hailstones falling on the ground joined together to form expansive sheets of ice or snow flakes occupying a large area, 30 acres,” Kenya’s Meteorological Department said. There’s got to be a scientist, sophisticated or otherwise reading GP who can explain to me in terms I can understand (remember, I am slow) how snow or in that case ice, can fall in Kenya which sits just 1 degree south of the equator. Even if I don’t get an explanation, Kenyans had a treat for a day. Now where’s Santa in the middle of summer when you need him?"

9/15/2008 3:50:25 PM

this makes absolutely no sense at all!!!11 al gore told me otherwise!11

9/15/2008 4:03:24 PM

[Edited on September 15, 2008 at 4:10 PM. Reason : ]

9/15/2008 4:08:51 PM

and what exactly do those pictures have to do with the OP? could you please explain to all us laymen why a place like Kenya, who for all intents and purposes is located on the equator, could get a hailstorm like this? those 2 mt kilimanjaro pics didnt really explain anything

9/15/2008 4:19:55 PM

^^ that's what i was thinking of, too

Quote :

"this makes absolutely no sense at all!!!11 al gore told me otherwise!11"

whew! i was afraid we'd get away without another uninformed, retarded reference to al gore and a demonstration of complete and utter ignorance!

[Edited on September 15, 2008 at 4:24 PM. Reason : .]

9/15/2008 4:20:46 PM

quagmire maybe you too can explain this

probably not...its probably easier to say "GLOBAL WARMING IS FACT"

9/15/2008 4:21:24 PM

It just seemed odd that Kenya has global cooling, while its neighbor Tanzania is experiencing the effects of global warming

But who can argue with an anecdote?

[Edited on September 15, 2008 at 4:23 PM. Reason : .]

9/15/2008 4:21:38 PM

it is odd...why is it happening? dont we know all about climate change enough to explain this?

maybe "global warming" is an anecdote

[Edited on September 15, 2008 at 4:23 PM. Reason : .]

9/15/2008 4:22:49 PM

it's almost as if single events aren't necessarily indicative of overall trends.

9/15/2008 4:23:36 PM

Quote :

"and what exactly do those pictures have to do with the OP?"

Are you kidding me?

It's Mount Kilimanjaro, which is on the border of Kenya and Tanzania

[Edited on September 15, 2008 at 4:25 PM. Reason : ]

9/15/2008 4:24:11 PM

^^its almost as if this simply would not happen if the catastrophic AGW that you worship were real

^and? what do a pic from 1993 and a pic from 2000 have to do with gunzz' pics from a week ago?

Quote :

"it's almost as if single events aren't necessarily indicative of overall trends."

that concept seemed pretty foreign to you when i tried to explain how 100 years arent necessarily indicative of a 4.3 byo planet...

[Edited on September 15, 2008 at 4:28 PM. Reason : typos]

9/15/2008 4:24:17 PM

umm, you know that hail is most common in the summer, regardless of location, yeah?

9/15/2008 4:26:52 PM

Quote :

"I have not seen such a thing ever since I was born"

sounds pretty common!

come on guys, you have already reached your conclusion, now go find some evidence to support it (instead of, you know, looking at evidence and drawing a conclusion FROM it)

[Edited on September 15, 2008 at 4:27 PM. Reason : .]

9/15/2008 4:27:22 PM

GLOBAL WARMING DEBUNKED !

9/15/2008 4:28:10 PM

Quote :

"quagmire maybe you too can explain this probably not...its probably easier to say "GLOBAL WARMING IS FACT""

i challenge you to find ANY instance of me declaring that "global warming" is a fact

i realize that you are in the 95% of the population that is both ignorant and content in their ignorance, and so i really don't hold it against you (plus, you're obviously in the same group that's afraid of the implications and therefore reverts to "al gore is stupid RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RAWR RAWR RAWR" when proof is thrown in your face)...but the simple fact of the matter is that global climate destabilization is real...you can ignore it and/or pretend that glacial melting at unprecedented and unnatural rates (not that it's never happened, you stupid son of a bitch, but that it's happening at a RATE that is complete and without rival) is not happening, but it just makes you even more of a dumbass because you revel in your ignorance and wear it as a badge of pride

you are in no way qualified to argue with me in this...i am not saying i am the end-all/be-all authority on it, but compared to me, you are simply too uneducated to understand the subject...unless you've done 2 years of graduate work in ecological destabilization as it relates to climate change?

[Edited on September 15, 2008 at 4:35 PM. Reason : ?]

9/15/2008 4:34:23 PM

GET ME A LINE TO THE PRESIDENT

^ Dude, you're talking to a guy who totally talked to a professor this one time about the subject. Don't mess with him.


\/ this guy fixes taco bell headsets for a living.

[Edited on September 15, 2008 at 4:46 PM. Reason : .]

9/15/2008 4:34:44 PM

^^wow great convincing argument...lots of namecalling, thats always important...i think your most convincing point was when you said "the simple fact of the matter is that global climate destabilization is real"...if you say so it must be true!

^hey look everyone, this guy teaches phys ed to 2nd graders, dont argue with him, did you see the fucking pictures he posted in this thread? serious evidence

Quote :

"come on guys, you have already reached your conclusion, now go find some evidence to support it (instead of, you know, looking at evidence and drawing a conclusion FROM it) "

9/15/2008 4:43:00 PM

Quote :

"wow great convincing argument...lots of namecalling, thats always important...i think your most convincing point was when you said "the simple fact of the matter is that global climate destabilization is real"...if you say so it must be true!"

the name-calling would only be problematic if it weren't true...but i know from thread after thread after thread what your "proof" is, and it's usually along the lines of "you said global warming so you love al gore RAWR!" and so names weren't so much meant to be insulting as they were a statement of known facts

i have neither the time nor the inclination to re-post what's been related to you time and time again...you didn't get it the first or second or third times around, so why would i believe you'd get it on the forth? we've been over this - you're an idiot...i don't know what "proof" will get through to someone incapable or unwilling to see it, so why bother?

scientists will never ever ever be able to document and evaluate every possible aspect of the environment and its unique properties...not now, not a thousand years from now...that doesn't change the fact that some of the greatest, most educated, and most knowledgeable minds from all over the worlds concur about the destabilizing effects of increased anthropogenic activities over the past couple of hundred years...by far, they outnumber the dissenters...does that mean they're right? of course not...but it does mean that, under the limitations that we have and all things being equal, they offer a significantly more complete truth than anyone else

your declaration that it can't possibly be true in no way changes the facts as we know them and the reasonable, logical, and informed conclusions drawn from these facts...additionally, let me make it very clear that you simply are my inferior in this...i won't try to talk to you about the varieties of pot and their inherent qualities, and you try not to talk about climate destabilization...deal? we'll each stick to what we know

[Edited on September 15, 2008 at 4:54 PM. Reason : .]

9/15/2008 4:51:28 PM

Quote :

"let me make it very clear that you simply are my inferior in this"

Quote :

"we've been over this - you're an idiot["

oh of course...thats the first step...that goes without saying...despite posting exactly jack shit for any kind of evidence or argument why this occured in kenya, you did make sure to falsely assert that you are the superior source and its not even worth debating

yep...keep telling people there is no debate...its a lot easier for you to play ignoramus than face all the widespread and valid skepticism about agw...dont explain how something like this could happen in the conext of agw, just call people dumb and continue to act like theres no debate...after all, why would you actually discuss the science when you could just continue to repeat that i'm dumb?

9/15/2008 4:53:58 PM

Quote :

"dont explain how something like this could happen in the conext of agw, just call people dumb and continue to act like theres no debate...after all, why would you actually discuss the science when you could just continue to repeat that i'm dumb?"

but you ARE dumb...you really don't see it, do you? it won't make ANY difference what evidence or educated conjecture i post, you will ALWAYS revert to "al gore blah blah blah"...it's what you DO because you can't comprehend the science behind it...please, by all means, start showing me where you've actually either:

1.) accepted proof as there is no argument against it
2.) provided valid arguments against proof presented

i could be wrong, but your posts reek of "i have no idea what i'm talking about, so i'm going to continue to forever make al gore references"

9/15/2008 4:57:28 PM

it's almost as if single events aren't necessarily indicative of overall trends.

To conclude, rabble rabble rabble Al Gore, rabble rabble rabble natural cycles, rabble rabble rabble.

9/15/2008 4:57:59 PM

^^i understand the science just fine...i had my undergrad degree when you were in high school...you're the stupid fuck that can't do anything but call people dumb and say theres no debate

please, mention some fucking evidence or quit trolling this lounge thread

^another quality post

in conclusion for people who dont want to read the thread, global warming is happening, its manmade, and theres no debate that its happening (despite the importance of debate in science and the fact that we constanly figure out and discover new things)...quagmire understands a 4.3 byo planet based on 100 years of temperature data...he is the ultimate source and he's never been wrong about anything

9/15/2008 4:58:47 PM

Quote :

"i had my undergrad degree when you were in high school"

holy shit, batman! you have a BACHELORS!!!!!???? you are teh smartest!

Quote :

"please, mention some fucking evidence or quit trolling this lounge thread"

says the guy who, as the first response in the thread was:

Quote :

"this makes absolutely no sense at all!!!11 al gore told me otherwise!11"

pot? go fuck that kettle over there...just STFU and GTFO, you moron

9/15/2008 5:01:54 PM

hey look, another quagmire post with zero evidence

Quote :

"\this makes absolutely no sense at all!!!11 al gore told me otherwise!11"

this guy is also completely oblivious to sarcasm...apparently the 1's after the !'s arent a dead giveaway to some people

you'd expect someone with 2 YEARS GRADUATE EXPERIENCE (omg!!) to not be scared to bring up evidence instead of relying on a crutch of "nuh uh, global warming is real, thats a fact, i know more than you, i wont debate you"

Quote :

"you have a BACHELORS!!!!!???? "

yep...I was writing EIS's when you had your learner's permit...I was transecting estuaries when you were studying for the SATs...but you know so much!

9/15/2008 5:03:13 PM

that's because, as you noted, this is the lounge...i did not once say that hail in kenya or the recession of the kilimanjaro glacier were the direct result of climate destabilization...if you want start yet another thread discussing the "truth" of climate change, we can discuss it in there (as it will be relevant and worthwhile)

YOU are the one who took a simple story and started the "OMG al gore" crap that you ALWAYS start when your ideas perceived as threatened

9/15/2008 5:08:17 PM

nm

[Edited on September 15, 2008 at 5:11 PM. Reason : you know it all, no point in arguing with the great fagmire]

[Edited on September 15, 2008 at 5:13 PM. Reason : dont make sarcastic comments around him, he won't be able to move past them]

9/15/2008 5:10:46 PM

yo, the earth is not 4.3 billion years old. more like 4.56 billion.


and that looks like hail... hail happens during severe thunderstorms... which are more likely to occur during the summer months.

9/15/2008 5:31:11 PM

Hey Boone, I hope you're aware that the snow cap of Mt. Kilimanjaro has been receding due to a lack of moisture in the air from deforestation, not warmer temperatures...

quagmire02, seriously man if you want to argue this topic, go to TSB and into the already well established thread on it. Nobody wants to refute you again in here if its already been done over there.

9/15/2008 6:00:04 PM

i just refuted in my pants

9/15/2008 6:11:25 PM

I'm not reading all of that because of [words], but...if you think localized hail is evidence of global climate change, you are a fucking idiot. Wiki "hail" and learn something instead of wasting our time with this post.

9/15/2008 10:46:40 PM

^I'm fairly confident gunzz knows that and was just baiting people.

9/15/2008 11:21:39 PM

as a meteorologist I'll say that hail is caused by strong updrafts and instability. Although rare in this area, sever weather can happen pretty much anywhere. Global warming and climate change will actually cause more and more wacky things to occur around the globe. Even if they include snowstorms in china or overall warmer weather in some areas. Tomorrow I will look at some data and make an analysis of exactly what happened in Kenya..

9/15/2008 11:38:06 PM

The north Atlantic current is shutting down! This is the beginnings of an ice age! Or so Dennis Quaid told me.

9/16/2008 12:07:38 AM

ONLY IN KENYA

9/16/2008 12:37:35 AM

Its snowed in the Sahara desert before...

9/16/2008 1:32:30 AM

i like the use of "learn" and "wiki" together in a sentence

9/16/2008 4:46:24 AM

over under on when this gets punted to chit chat?

9/16/2008 8:49:49 AM

Seriously? It's like dealing with elementary school students. This has been discussed SO MANY TIMES, both on TWW and in the real world. I'll show you again, though:

Quote :

"Acting like a conveyor belt, the current transports warm, surface waters toward the Poles and cold, deep waters toward the Equator. In the Atlantic Ocean, these warm surface waters push northward, releasing heat into the atmosphere and becoming cooler and denser. As they do, the waters sink and flow southward in the deep ocean. "The Atlantic circulation moves heat toward the Arctic, and this helps moderate wintertime temperatures in the high-latitude Northern Hemisphere," said Ruth Curry, a physical oceanography research specialist at the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution on Cape Cod, Massachusetts. Curry noted that excessive amounts of freshwater dumped into the North Atlantic could alter seawater density and, in time, affect the flow of the North Atlantic ocean current. (Global warming has boosted freshwater runoff in the form of glacier meltwater and additional precipitation, Curry said.) "

Now, whether this is manmade is unrelated to the fact that increased temperatures cause glaciers to melt, leading to an effect like this one.


http://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/news/topstory/2004/0415gyre.html

Quote :

"A North Atlantic Ocean circulation system weakened considerably in the late 1990s, compared to the 1970s and 1980s, according to a NASA study."

The only reason that the atlantic north is as temperate as it is is this conveyor system. It brings warm water to those areas. If that conveyor shuts down, those areas retain their ambient cold air (being as close to the poles as they are) and drop significantly in temperature.

[Edited on September 16, 2008 at 2:24 PM. Reason : .]

9/16/2008 2:23:05 PM

Quote :

"There’s got to be a scientist, sophisticated or otherwise reading GP who can explain to me in terms I can understand (remember, I am slow) how snow or in that case ice, can fall in Kenya which sits just 1 degree south of the equator."

I only skimmed the thread so this may have been pointed out. But hail forms in the cold upper atmosphere. Even in warm/hot weather hailstones can accumulate because they take a while to melt. Most of you guys have lived in NC, surely you've seen hail in the summer. A hailstorm isn't the same thing as a snowstorm. Hail doesn't indicate a cold climate.

9/16/2008 3:03:14 PM

OMFG ITS ICE OF COURSE IT DOES

9/16/2008 3:20:49 PM

yeah yeah i know hail comes from thunderstorms with strong winds aloft of whatever and its not a temperature thing

but i'm wondering what the temperature is there... the 'article' is saying summertime... and i guess if there was just a storm, it could be maybe 25 degrees cooler than normal

but why do they have on coats?

9/16/2008 3:27:19 PM

so they don't burn.

9/16/2008 4:08:00 PM

FUCK CRAZY CODE

[Edited on September 16, 2008 at 4:48 PM. Reason : GRRR]

9/16/2008 4:47:12 PM

Florida's gotten snow before too.

Hail particularly is not that uncommon in warm areas... and often precedes tornados (but not always), regardless of summer or winter time.

This is an unusual freak occurrence, but nothing more. It could be a symptom of global climate change, but it's impossible to tell without more data.

Quote :

"the 'article' is saying summertime... "

They are at the equator so seasons are irrelevant, but being SOUTH of the equator means the are just finishing their winter and are heading in to spring.

[Edited on September 16, 2008 at 6:18 PM. Reason : ]

9/16/2008 6:17:07 PM

Quote :

"ONLY IN KENYA"

9/17/2008 4:09:13 AM

Quote :

"but why do they have on coats?"

b/c ice was falling from the sky so they didnt know what to do and panicked

9/17/2008 9:02:08 AM

I'm just curious why they even OWN coats...

9/17/2008 9:34:11 AM

Quote :

"The average annual temperature for the coastal town of Mombasa (altitude 17 metres) is 30.30 Celsius maximum and 22.40 Celsius minimum (73 F), the capital city, Nairobi (altitude 1,661 metres) 25.20 Celsius maximum and 13.60 Celsius (56 F) minimum, Eldoret (altitude 3,085) 23.60 Celsius maximum and 9.50 Celsius (49 F) minimum, Lodwar (altitude) 506 metres) and the drier north plainlands 34.80 Celsius maximum and 23.70 Celsius minimum. There is plenty of sunshine all the year round and summer clothes are worn throughout the year. However, it is usually cool at night and early in the morning. The long rains occur from April to June and short rains from October to December. The rainfall is sometimes heavy and when it does come it often falls in the afternoons and evenings. The hottest period is from February to March and coldest in July to August. "

http://kenya.rcbowen.com/geography/climate.html


"Looking it up" is a good way to answer a question, usually...

[Edited on September 17, 2008 at 2:30 PM. Reason : .]

9/17/2008 2:29:56 PM