I've been working at the same place for over two years. My boss is crazy. At times it's been more tolerable than others, but lately she's been under alot of stress and I can't handle how to she acts at work, along with the fact that I'm burned out and need a pay increase that she can't offer. She also plans on enlarging the business to a new location and adding to my workout (which is barely managable right now). I've been applying at places alot lately and plan on giving my notice as soon as I find a job. However, even though I've been an excellent employee I'm positive that my leaving will cause my boss to hold a grudge (she's done it to others). Doesn't matter if I give two weeks or two months notice. As this being my first "real" job after graduating college, I really need an excellent reference. Are references from co-workers effective? Maybe the office manager? Anyone help me figure out a way to quit without her being pissed about it?

7/9/2008 4:22:02 PM

Two weeks is the standard. However be prepared for them to let you go then and there. There's no shame in the business world anymore and a lot of companies will let you go on the spot when you give two weeks. its crappy but if you do give two weeks plan ahead for that maybe happening.

7/9/2008 4:23:44 PM

you want a reference from your boss

let her know you need more money and more time with your family or some shit...i've found that advanced notice is good...she's much less likely to hold a grudge if she has time to find someone to fill your position instead of you just quitting out of the blue

7/9/2008 4:27:33 PM

Try and leave on good terms with your boss's superior. Don't sweat it to much. What do you do?

7/9/2008 4:28:30 PM

Quote :

"What do you do?"

some industries don't use references anymore (if they ever did) - is it a big deal in your industry?

7/9/2008 4:42:34 PM

If you tell her you're leaving for personal reasons (too much stress, you need a change for your family, and your health is suffering from the work schedule) she will not have reasons to be angry at you. If she is still angry at you for some reason, don't worry about it, you couldn't have done anything to make the situation better. In fact, if she DOES react like that to your leaving, you should accept that you were never meant to work there in the first place. It sounds like it was a bad work environment with a boss that just doesn't "get it", and you may as well take your experience and get a better job somewhere else.

7/9/2008 4:47:04 PM

You are not going to need her as a reference for your next job and here is why.

Recruiters and Hiring Managers know not to call your current employer for a reference because when people job hunt they do not want their current company to know what they are doing. It is pretty much understood that if you are presently employed somewhere not to call your current job for anything.

Let the fact you are currently employed with them and have been for two years speak for itself and do not use her for a reference.

Quote :

"some industries don't use references anymore "

Most corporations have a policy about giving out employment references now. This is because people have sued due to negative references that were given.

I know the last large company I worked for had an 800 number people called and they would only give out the hire date, and the seperation date.

Here is an article about what I am talking about.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0301/p14s02-wmgn.html

7/9/2008 5:08:32 PM

my current employer called my references after i had been working for 3 weeks.

7/9/2008 5:24:14 PM

Yeah, at my current job they made my offer after like 4 interviews, we shook hands, and then they asked for 3 references. haha wtf?

I gave them my sister (married), Mom (remarried), and our Fantasy Football commissioner.

7/9/2008 5:27:07 PM

tell her your g/f is pregnant and need to find a job that will give you more time and more money.

7/9/2008 5:45:46 PM

Quote :

"Most corporations have a policy about giving out employment references now. This is because people have sued due to negative references that were given. I know the last large company I worked for had an 800 number people called and they would only give out the hire date, and the seperation date."

This is my understanding of how most companies operate these days as well.

7/9/2008 5:49:24 PM

^agreed

7/9/2008 5:52:49 PM

From my experiences...when asked for a reference, if you did well, the boss will give you a glowing reference. If you didn't, or left on bad terms, the boss would say that they are not allowed to give references.

7/9/2008 6:32:19 PM

^^^ Yeah, but not all employees at companies do.

I worked for one place where I overheard the woman giving a reference and she was saying some pretty screwed up stuff about the person in question. And then someone else in the company asked her to write her a letter of recommendation for something, and it was unsealed so the guy decided to read it and it had some dumb shit in there too (he has a jock attitude, I don't like the polos he wears, etc).

I would have had to of been high to put them down as a reference for ANYTHING and I wouldn't be surprised if they get sued one of these days.

7/9/2008 6:44:53 PM

A reference is a solicited thing. If you ask for a reference and that person puts shit, then it's more your fault.

Asking for a reference implies you have trust in a person. I don't think it's right to sue them.

7/9/2008 9:27:28 PM

Quote :

"and it was unsealed so the guy decided to read it "

lol, yeah riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight

7/9/2008 9:34:22 PM

Either it was unsealed or he asked for two copies when he actually only needed one. I don't remember exactly what the deal was but I do remember us reading it at work

7/10/2008 1:19:26 AM

Quote :

"Most corporations have a policy about giving out employment references now. This is because people have sued due to negative references that were given. "

That's too bad. References would be very useful for hiring managers, and lord knows the HR process is enough of a black art already.

(An interview for a few hours doesn't really do a good job of letting you know how an employee will actually work on the job.)

7/10/2008 1:35:03 AM

Quote :

"An interview for a few hours doesn't really do a good job of letting you know how an employee will actually work on the job."

You don't have to tell me twice

7/10/2008 2:25:24 AM

Just quit. Two minutes notice. It really dosent matter to anyone, no matter what they say.

7/10/2008 3:06:42 AM

anyone else you're working with who can provide you a good reference if all else fails?

7/10/2008 4:31:45 AM

Quote :

"While there is no law against giving subjective references, most attorneys advise firms not to offer anything but title and dates of employment. "It's not worth the risk of litigation," says Jonathan Wilson, chairman of the labor and employment law section of Haynes and Boone LLP in Dallas. Mr. Wilson says fired workers are winning million-dollar defamation lawsuits against former employers who allegedly gave bad references. Despite the increase in reference- related defamation suits, 39 percent of employers still provide more than the neutral dates of employment and job title, according to the DRC study. Nine percent had inaccurate records and another 6 percent refused to respond. The study also revealed that businesses in Texas were most likely to defame an employee, followed by companies in California and New York. Some reference detectives are still surprised at how angry some bosses get at former employees. "People are vindictive," says Heidi Allison, a partner in the reference-checking company Allison & Taylor Inc., the parent company to Jobreferences.com. "Sometimes they let their emotions take over and say things that they shouldn't." Ms. Allison recalls one client who was dating her boss and decided to break up with him. So he made her worklife miserable until she eventually quit. The old boss spoke in a friendly manner to reference checkers but then ended the calls by saying "It's too bad she's dyslexic" - which was not true. Allison says other ex-bosses put the reference checker on hold, saying, "let me get the file and see what I can legally say about this case," which gives the impression that the worker sued the former employer - a move that typically scares off potential employers. Reference-checking companies sometimes send threatening letters to the old bosses demanding that they cease and desist with the libelous comments. Others refer clients to attorneys who use the documented reports as a basis for defamation suits. Legal experts say fired workers are on a winning streak with lawsuits against former employers and this new wave of defamation suits over bad references is having a chilling effect on human resource departments. "Unfortunately, most companies won't give references anymore," says attorney Matthew Grabell, principal of Grabell Associates LLP in Hackensack, N.J. "Employers are backed into a corner for fear of these defamation suits and that hurts good employees who need a reference to find their next job.""

7/10/2008 8:23:06 AM

I'd ask her for a letter of recommendation before you show any signs that you're going to quit. Say you're thinking about going to grad school (preferably in a field that you could benefit the company you're working with now to not look suspicious and would still be able to work there) and you need some letters of recommendations for that.

Tell her to just keep it broad, with a to whom it may concern salutation, since you will also be applying for scholarships as well. Get a few sealed copies from her and keep them for any future job interview. Make sure it's dated too, that way if you quit around the time after she wrote it, it'd show the way she truly felt about you around the time you quit working there...

[Edited on July 10, 2008 at 4:23 PM. Reason : .]

7/10/2008 4:23:24 PM

I directed this question to my husband since he deals with new hires on a regular basis. He says that it is perfectly appropriate to list people in direct supervisory roles as references instead of someone who is higher up in the food chain. So you could list your office manager as a reference instead of the head of the company. As long as you are not listing someone with your same job title that has been there longer than you have and thus has some seniority over you, you should be just fine. (So no co-worker references.) And the other posters are right, hiring managers usually understand that you are still employed by your current company and that they should not call your boss for a reference and alert them that you are pursuing other job options.

[Edited on July 10, 2008 at 4:54 PM. Reason : .]

7/10/2008 4:53:51 PM