Each of us here whether you were born or moved here lives in the "greatest" country that has ever existed in the recorded history of the earth.

Now, that term "greatest" might have a lot of different meanings to each of you(positive or negative), but it's true, we top the charts in a lot of ways. What does it mean to you?

Do you feel the past 232 years have been good to the peoples of this planet? Do you feel we are heading in the right direction? Have we as a country learned from our mistakes? Does it generally upset you that the foundation of this country was based upon Christian religious principles? I'd like to hear your thoughts about this nation and if you plan on living in it and supporting it or if you plan on leaving to another one for various reasons.

[obligatory AMERICA FUCK YEH]

Thank you all.

[Edited on June 8, 2008 at 6:00 PM. Reason : .]

6/8/2008 5:58:45 PM

You have liberal friends?

6/8/2008 6:27:32 PM

got some false premises in there?

6/8/2008 6:27:37 PM

Quote :

"Do you feel the past 232 years have been good to the peoples of this planet?"

232 Years ago, nobody had ever heard of Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, or a whole host of lesser assholes. I'd have to say, "no".

Quote :

"Do you feel we are heading in the right direction?"

Creeping towards socialism, even after it's been thoroughly discredited by the last 100 years?

Again, No.

Quote :

"Have we as a country learned from our mistakes?"

You kind of have to admit some mistakes before you can learn from them. Yes, I know we like to cry about slavery and the indians, but there have been a lot more mistakes than those.

No.

Quote :

"Does it generally upset you that the foundation of this country was based upon Christian religious principles?"

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.

[Edited on June 8, 2008 at 6:37 PM. Reason : /]

6/8/2008 6:36:25 PM

Quote :

"Does it generally upset you that the foundation of this country was based upon Christian religious principles?"

[/thread]

6/8/2008 6:39:10 PM

[/thread] indeed

6/8/2008 7:15:57 PM

Quote :

" "I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.""

Quote :

"God who gave us life gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that his justice cannot sleep forever. Commerce between master and slave is despotism. Nothing is more certainly written in the book of fate than these people are to be free. Establish the law for educating the common people. This it is the business of the state to effect and on a general plan."

Thomas Jefferson



[Edited on June 8, 2008 at 7:23 PM. Reason : /]

6/8/2008 7:20:16 PM

6/8/2008 7:24:56 PM

You love that double post, don't you? I guess the example of India didn't work on that whole "democracy is not an inherently Christian value" thing. Maybe Japan, Turkey, and classical Athens will.

But I doubt it.

6/8/2008 7:31:22 PM

you liberals love to circumvent the point and just wrestle anything religous to the ground and beat it with a stick. we get it. you're upset at that.


feel free to answer the other 80% of the questions.

6/8/2008 7:34:21 PM

Deism is not Christianity. You fail Rat.

6/8/2008 7:35:38 PM

I'd be more interested in exactly what you think America has learned from its mistakes.

6/8/2008 7:38:23 PM

Well, it this thread http://thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=525535&page=1#11579493 our friend Rat specified that the criteria for the #1 nation include air conditioning, kitchen appliances, ice in drinks at restaurants, cheap gasoline, and big cars. In his immortal words:

Quote :

"spontanus, feel free to move to europe. (nobody has a/c, garbage disposals are unheard of, icemakers in a fridge are out of the question, no ice in your drinks at restaurants, gas is well over 6/7$ a gallon respectively, nobody owns a car bigger than the smallest pinto you can find in the states) oh and japan let's not get into that. they live like sardenes, my trips were great over there. it costs about $100 to go to a movie and get fast food. the prices are horribly inflated for anything fun there, and again, no a/c unless you find a supermarket. b4 creating shit like this in soap box, take a trip abroad and come back and say to our faces "americe is #2 or #3 guis" - ain't gonna happen"

So, given the relevant criteria endorsed by the o.p., I'd have to say that Dubai is definitely the greatest country in the world.

Otherwise said, this thread is a joke.

6/8/2008 7:44:47 PM

awesome. give a liberal any question. this just goes to show how they can take any question about the united states and all they do is bash religion/ change the subject/ avoid the issues etc..

no wonder dnl is #1 follower

whether you want to admit it or not, this nation was partially founded to make christianity thrive as it wasn't allowed to in europe. i'm talking about non catholics and non church of englanders


[Edited on June 8, 2008 at 7:54 PM. Reason : .]

6/8/2008 7:52:51 PM

Quote :

"you liberals love to circumvent the point and just wrestle anything religous to the ground and beat it with a stick. we get it. you're upset at that."

i'm probably literally the least religious person you'll ever meet that calls himself a religion(catholic)...i've gone to church like 5 times ever and only once when i could actually kinda get what i was hearing and never even been baptized and shit...can someone explain that quote to me?

6/8/2008 7:55:09 PM

Quote :

"Do you feel the past 232 years have been good to the peoples of this planet?"

Nope.

Quote :

"Do you feel we are heading in the right direction? Have we as a country learned from our mistakes?"

Nope.

Quote :

"Does it generally upset you that the foundation of this country was based upon Christian religious principles?"

It wasn't; nope.

Quote :

"I'd like to hear your thoughts about this nation and if you plan on living in it and supporting it or if you plan on leaving to another one for various reasons."

Plan on leaving at some point. I don't see this as a bad thing. Nationalism is basically all of the idiocy and immaturity of sports team rivalries except it results in widespread death and suffering. There should be no nations, to be honest.

Quote :

"Now, that term "greatest" might have a lot of different meanings to each of you(positive or negative), but it's true, we top the charts in a lot of ways. What does it mean to you?"

Absolutely nothing. This country's greatness isn't self-earned or self-bought. It's a country built by slaves and sustained by exploitation on the international scene. The natives of this country are by and far subhuman idiots who don't deserve the right to vote (they don't deserve the right to impact people in foreign countries in any way, shape, or form).

6/8/2008 8:02:01 PM

You tell 'em Lius!!


[Edited on June 8, 2008 at 8:27 PM. Reason : bbbboyyy]

6/8/2008 8:26:51 PM

Yes this is entirely relevant.

6/8/2008 8:27:20 PM

the fact that you are Chinese pretty much makes whatever you say irrelevant. You come from a country that sees human rights as something to piss on. Thus, what you have to say is, far and away, pointless.

6/8/2008 8:32:06 PM

democracy isn't a Christian government system.

It was created by people who were shunned by the church and adopted by the mainstream.

a monarchy is a nice Christian government system

6/8/2008 8:33:16 PM

^^ thanks to Bush, the rest of the developed world says the same thing about us.

[Edited on June 8, 2008 at 8:33 PM. Reason : ]

6/8/2008 8:33:16 PM

except for those 40 million free iraqis and afghanis.

i know rite. gg moron. PISS ON AMERICA WITH PRIDE!!

6/8/2008 8:34:12 PM

Iraqis aren't "more free." Rather, they live in a weakened state nearby long-time enemies Iran and Israel.

Whoops.

6/8/2008 8:43:03 PM

those iraqs are controlled by a shitty religions as well.

lames

6/8/2008 8:43:18 PM

Not to mention that if we ever leave Afghanistan, they will be in a shitty position when Russia starts to look towards Empire building again (if they do).

6/8/2008 8:46:37 PM

The anti-christian movement is especially baffling to me and I worry about mankind because of this movement. The movement has flourished in Europe and is grabbing hold in America.

I recently talked with a good friend of mine who is a preacher with the Church of England and has a church 3 hours north of London. I asked him, essentially, why the movement against Christianity? It doesn't necessarily seem to be a movement away from Christianity, rather, it's a movement against Christianity. It's prevalent on this board. People will defend to death a muslim imam praying loudly, putting on bandanas, screaming Alah on an airplane, subsequently get kicked off, and now they're suing. But my God if someone prays in school, send em to the camps.

My friends response was basically this: It's another "enlightenment." I first took that to mean that, he too, thought it was a positive trend given a positive connotation with the word "enlightenment." He says that as man's knowledge about the world increases, his need for God decreases. However, he says, this has happened before throughout history and SOMETHING always happens that force a re-evaluation and people re discover their faith. Just read the Old Testament and see how many times the Jews, after being delivered from Egypt, turned their back on God only to find Him again several times over.

He says the movement is unfortunate because Christianity teaches nothing but peace and tolerance. Although radical sects exist, they are much smaller than other religions and largely nonviolent. All-in-all, Christianity, even as just a philosophy and not a religion, is good. It stands for good and strives to do good.

But for those who rail against Christianity, I think there are far better causes for you to champion. There are so many injustices and so much wrong with this world that attacking Christianity as a religion seems to be barking up the wrong tree...

6/8/2008 8:59:07 PM

You have liberal friends?

[Edited on June 8, 2008 at 9:01 PM. Reason : blah]

6/8/2008 9:00:53 PM

Christianity and Islam for the most part are destroying each other and the world.

I think its a pretty good reason to dislike them both.

6/8/2008 9:08:00 PM

Wait, how is Christianity destroying the world?

6/8/2008 9:16:39 PM

I think it is a little egotistical to claim this country is the "greatest" country in the world. What is your basis of comparison? Which criteria are we using. For me i would probably rate the US at the top for close to it for my personnel interests. Would the US be the greatest country if you are a devout follower of islam? How about a poor unskilled laborer?

Objectively though I would say we are the "greatest" country if you are some sort of major capital or business owner. Also, the US would be the "greatest" if our metric for greatness is in military power.

Quote :

"The anti-christian movement is especially baffling "

I have no problem with Christianity. I think it helps instill a sense of morality within its followers; as do most other religions. My only problem with the christian camp is their insistence to force their morals onto others via laws ratified through their elected congressmen. topics including abortion, gambling, drugs, blue laws on alcohol, consensual sex between adults, prayer in school etc

[Edited on June 8, 2008 at 9:23 PM. Reason : ;]

6/8/2008 9:19:55 PM

^ Our endless appeals system


/thank you for smoking

6/8/2008 9:20:57 PM

so are we the only country with a lengthy appeals system?

6/8/2008 9:24:56 PM

Christianity is not bad at all but its insistence on correctness coupled with Islams similar fault causes a huge problem.

6/8/2008 9:27:29 PM

I almost find it ironic that the christian right is the most outspoken war hawks advocating the "git-er-dun" attitude towards the countries run by islamic law iran/Saudi Arabia/etc. Realistically when it comes to the role of gov't in regards to social freedoms, the two groups would probably agree a lot.

6/8/2008 9:31:42 PM

maybe religion is not what causes them to have the "git r done" attitude? These are not one-dimmensional people. Yes, they are religious, but that's not the only thing that defines them and your claim that it does shows your ignorance of what the Christian right stands for.


Perhaps they are pro-defense, believed the Iraq intel about WMDs, realized we had bad intel, but believe leaving would be disaster.

None of that has anything to do with islam or christianity.

6/8/2008 9:35:32 PM

fair enough

6/8/2008 9:36:34 PM

^ a man in the soap box, a rare breed indeed.

Quote :

"Christianity is not bad at all but its insistence on correctness coupled with Islams similar fault causes a huge problem."

Christianity doesn't have "infidels" and Jesus didn't command us to kill them, as Mohammad did. And wait, these people ARE killing in the name of Islam. The last real example of Christians killing in the name of Jesus that is akin to the modern day Islamic Jihad is the crusades. And that was 800 years ago.

6/8/2008 9:39:41 PM

I just don't understand how people[liberals] sit around and complain about an epidemic of aids and stds. the problems of abuse in families and drug use. the horrible things we read about daily in society that are tearing us apart...

and then sit around and not see any correlation between that and what religions teach and those that follow it and success they have(abstinence, against drugs, teaching against anger)

all they do is choose to attack the religions instead. and then compare modern day christianity to modern day islam...


baffling

6/8/2008 9:39:58 PM

I think that many problems with substance abuse stem from a desire to evade reality.

Some of those liberals may see religion as a willful evasion of reality as well, therefore, religion is not a satisfactory answer to societal ills for them.

6/8/2008 10:18:06 PM

yeah if you think about it religion is kinda a willful evasion of reality

6/8/2008 10:20:15 PM

oh wait guys, John McCain says unequivocally we are a Christian nation. Rat has been right all along
http://atheistmedia.blogspot.com/2008/06/john-mccain-constitution-established.html

6/8/2008 10:31:13 PM

Quote :

"oh and japan let's not get into that. they live like sardenes, my trips were great over there. it costs about $100 to go to a movie and get fast food. the prices are horribly inflated for anything fun there, and again, no a/c unless you find a supermarket."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. That made my day.

6/8/2008 10:42:50 PM

"If men are so wicked with religion, what would they be if without it." According to David Morgan,[32] Franklin was a proponent of all religions. He prayed to "Powerful Goodness" and referred to God as the "INFINITE." John Adams noted that Franklin was a mirror in which people saw their own religion: "The Catholics thought him almost a Catholic. The Church of England claimed him as one of them. The Presbyterians thought him half a Presbyterian, and the Friends believed him a wet Quaker." Whatever else Benjamin Franklin was, concludes Morgan, "he was a true champion of generic religion." Ben Franklin was noted to be "the spirit of the Enlightenment."

You can continue biting your lips being upset that this country is founded in principles of basic religion and a large part of it being Christianity. Or you can just answer the questions. Either way, men like Benjamin Franklin was a champion of religions and there is plenty of material out there showing that he represented them.

[Edited on June 8, 2008 at 11:02 PM. Reason : .]

6/8/2008 11:01:19 PM

stop hating my freedoms

6/8/2008 11:15:10 PM

stop hating: my freedom to make money from hard work without getting tax-raped b/c of it / my ability to defend myself from rogues that want to kill us / the fact that i'm sick of taking care of you ppl that don't feel like getting jobs / my 2nd amendment rights / my desire to give every baby a choice / my freedom to go to church if i want to and recognize and be humble enough to realize i'm not the greatest thing to ever live in this universe


yeh. stopping hating on freedoms. there's lots of monarchs and socialist republics to choose from if you want all the stuff you constantly describe... go join them and don't ruin what we've had for so long.

[Edited on June 8, 2008 at 11:21 PM. Reason : .]

6/8/2008 11:21:04 PM

Pointing out that you're dumb doesn't make me irreligious.

You dumb.

6/8/2008 11:22:10 PM

irreligious

more like irreducated. lol

6/8/2008 11:29:22 PM

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/irreligious

You still dumb.

6/8/2008 11:38:21 PM

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/07/opinion/07meacham.html

Quote :

"In the 1790s, in the waters off Tripoli, pirates were making sport of American shipping near the Barbary Coast. Toward the end of his second term, Washington sent Joel Barlow, the diplomat-poet, to Tripoli to settle matters, and the resulting treaty, finished after Washington left office, bought a few years of peace. Article 11 of this long-ago document says that “as the government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,” there should be no cause for conflict over differences of “religious opinion” between countries."

Say what you like about the US being "founded by religious principals," but let's not confuse that with being a "Chrisitian nation." We have separation of church and state for a reason. The fact that politicians, both past and present, skirt the lines on this issue in no way makes it acceptable to infuse christian values into the public via the government.


I'm a practicing catholic, and honestly it pisses me off to see this kind of rhetoric. Far be it that we embrace the idea that the US can get better, instead of simply staying the way it is. Admitting that our country has flaws in no way insults its overall success.

To be fair, left-wingers need to avoid falling into the trap of blaming the US, corporations, etc. for any and all of their problems. Yes, sometimes war IS necessary. No, not all corporate profits are derived from exploiting their workers or ass-rape the environment. Yes, religion does serve a purpose and does have a net-positive effect on society as a whole. Even the ideal system of government isn't perfect; sometimes you gotta cut the system a little slack.

6/9/2008 12:03:28 AM

Well somebody else thinks this nation was founded on Christian principles too http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9izhjnaLa3M

6/9/2008 12:07:55 AM