There's an interesting police report out now on a mother that charged her son's teacher with child abuse after she forced him to listen to his class mate's complaints about him and allowed them to vote him out of class for the day.

Here's a summary from Slate (complete police report included in the link):

Quote :

"On May 21, Alex Barton, age 5, was escorted out of his kindergarten classroom at Morningside Elementary in Port St. Lucie, Fla., by the local police department's "school resource officer." Alex, who is autistic, was taken to the assistant principal, to whom he promised he would "not kick students, throw crayons, eat crayons, crawl under the table, kick the table of other students ... [or] disrupt the class," according to a police report. (See excerpts below and on the following six pages.) The assistant principal tucked in Alex's shirt, put his "shoes on the right feet and tied them," and sent Alex back to class. During Alex's absence, his teacher, Wendy Portillo, "gathered the students to talk with them" about the youngster's misbehavior. When Alex returned, Portillo, who has been teaching in Port Lucie for 12 years, directed the youngster to the front of the room and "asked him to listen to what the children didn't like" about him. According to Alex, the children complained that he "eats paper, picks boogers … and bites his shoelaces," and Portillo herself said, "I hate you right now. I don't like you today." (Page 2). Portillo next "polled the class" about whether to let Alex back in (Page 4). Alex lost the class vote, 14-2, and spent the rest of the school day in the nurse's office. That night, Alex "did not eat dinner [and] would not sleep in his own bed." (Page 2). The day after Alex's kindergarten show trial, his furious mother contacted the police school resource officer to report Portillo for child abuse. The police officer interviewed Alex ("Mrs. Portillo is very mean," Page 2); the teacher ("the students in class were all her priority," Page 3); and several child witnesses (Pages 5 and 6), and in the end concluded there was no "probable cause" for criminal child abuse (Page 6). The St. Lucie County Public School District is still investigating whether any department regulations were violated."

http://www.slate.com/id/2192480/entry/0/

I don't that the teacher went about it the right way, but if the kid is mentally troubled to the point he can't behave himself in class he shouldn't be there. It isn't fair to other kids if he dirupts class to the point that they can't learn. Put him in a special class or give him a tutor, at least until he can learn to behave himself.

[Edited on May 30, 2008 at 3:43 PM. Reason : ``]

5/30/2008 3:42:37 PM

To be fair to the kid, it was actually Aspergers syndrome, which is a rather high functioning form of autism.

5/30/2008 3:45:36 PM

why cant we just kill everyone thats genetically fucked up...tired of worrying about these less fortunate people

or at least devote one of the states to just all the messed up people

[Edited on May 30, 2008 at 3:48 PM. Reason : think of the money that would be saved]

5/30/2008 3:48:05 PM

Don't you have some form of downs DNL?


The teacher fucked up, it's not her place to judge kids in front of the class, especially at such a young age. She should lose her job if she thinks something like that is appropriate for young children.

5/30/2008 3:49:57 PM

You're thinking of Florida.

5/30/2008 3:50:12 PM

why can't we kill this whiny mother for bitching

5/30/2008 3:50:18 PM

Quote :

"I don't that the teacher went about it the right way, but if the kid is mentally troubled to the point he can't behave himself in class he shouldn't be there. It isn't fair to other kids if he dirupts class to the point that they can't learn. Put him in a special class or give him a tutor, at least until he can learn to behave himself."

putting a student up in front of his classmates, no matter how dysfunctional he is, and publicly deriding him and forcing his classmates to vote on him is "not going about it the right way"?
Yes, the student probably should be in a special class. Yes, he might does need some kind of disciplinary or remedial action. Yes, maybe he's a complete brat or problem child, or maybe he's just handicapped and doesn't know better.

But if the report is true, what that teacher did is 100% vile, cruel and unacceptable. She should not be allowed to set foot back in that school.

5/30/2008 3:59:58 PM

agentilon,

A lot of assertions there but not much argument. Why is it a bad approach? I can think of a few things good about it. 1) it makes it clear that Alex's actions were hurting his classmates 2) it narrows down on what specific problems they had with his behavior 3) it connected negative consequences with negative behavior.

If you're trying to change a child's behavior, those sound like good hit points. You apparently don't like it because it made the kid feel bad, but I would argue that that's part of the point. He should learn to associate disrupting class with feeling bad. It really isn't that much different from having to stand in the corner (another publicly humiliating forms of punishment).

It seems like you would have to argue that the degree of public humiliation in this punishment was so bad that the kid will be somehow "scarred for life". That's going to be a pretty tough case to make. How much public humiliation does it take to create emotional damage? and how do we define and measure that emotional damage? Not easy questions to answer.

[Edited on May 30, 2008 at 4:23 PM. Reason : ``]

5/30/2008 4:21:43 PM

The kid has a diagnosed mental problem, punishing him for something he cannot help is counterproductive, especially if it's after those behaviors have occurred.

5/30/2008 4:29:56 PM

Quote :

"if the kid is mentally troubled to the point he can't behave himself in class he shouldn't be there"

Sometimes school administrators don't give a fuck about this and can't kick the kid out of school.

My dads teacher friends confirmed this suspicion for me. The admin doesn't care about the teachers and doesn't want to get its hands dirty.

5/30/2008 4:31:22 PM

^^^ those arguments are generally beside the point. Maybe this child did need to be dealt with in a way that it was clear to him that he was a disruption and his presence was bringing down the rest of the class.

But the teacher's actions were what was out of line. It is not her duty or right to tell a student "I hate you right now" or to actively turn his fellow students against him. If he needs physiological counseling, then get him a psychologist. If he needs disciplinary action, then let the principle or a school officer take care of it. If he needs to be separated from the class, then fine - do it. But a kindergarten teacher does not have carte blanche to humiliate or publicly discipline a 5 year old in whatever "creative fashion" she can come up with.

[Edited on May 30, 2008 at 4:33 PM. Reason : .]

5/30/2008 4:33:04 PM

Quote :

"If he needs disciplinary action, then let the principle or a school officer take care of it."

Here's the rub. The kis had just returned from the principles office (one of the many times that week it states). Obviously school officials didn't care. As a kid in school who was REALLY upset when others disrupted the class, I can see how the teacher was at her wits end. Hell, I was such an uptight child I would cry when kids acted up and disrupted my learning. Who was looking out for mywelfare? That's right, no one. The same kids acted up in my school and nothing was ever done, nor was there any thought on how their behavior affected other kids.

5/30/2008 4:37:13 PM

^ The part alleged stuff about her telling him she "hated him" is where I think she went wrong. She should have kept her cool.

But nothing you said really addresses any of the points I raised. You move on from saying the punishment is bad to simply saying it "isn't her right" to punish in this fashion. How do you know? Teachers have the right to keep order in their own class room and there are guidelines for how they can do that. And I really expect that she has a better understanding of those guidelines than you or I. If she violated those guidelines, she will likely be punished, but neither your nor I have any clue.

5/30/2008 4:40:30 PM

my wife is a special education teacher at a Wake County high school. A large portion of her kids are autistic, have Aspergers, brain damaged, or otherwise severely LD. If she did any of those things she would be fired on the spot.

5/30/2008 4:42:41 PM

^^ It's OK because it's within guidelines?

[Edited on May 30, 2008 at 4:43 PM. Reason : ]

5/30/2008 4:42:53 PM

agent, apparently things are diff in Fla because she was not fired on the spot (though St. Lucie County Public School District is investigating to determine whether department regulations were vuolated).

Tarzan, no...I think it's an effective punishment strategy because of the 3 reasons i listed previously (scroll up).

5/30/2008 4:56:16 PM

Maybe she was so desperate to get him out of her class she did this on purpose

Maybe nobody would help her get this kid out of the class so the other 23 could learn

5/30/2008 5:05:37 PM

^^ Just to be clear: you think it acceptable for a teacher to actively encourage 5 year-old kindergarten students to deride a fellow student?

You understand we're talking about 5 year olds, right? Five year olds have little understanding of their own emotions and sense of self. I can almost guarantee that Alex Barton is--at best--only dimly aware that his actions can affect others in anything other than a physical manner.

If nothing else, Portillo has now tied her classroom authority to the whim of 5 year olds. Great teaching, I tell you what.

5/30/2008 5:14:21 PM

Without meeting the kid, you can garuntee the kid is "dimly aware" of what goes on around him? Great. Hey all those folks are like that guy on Rain Man, right?

Let's get this straight. Based on the police report, this doesn't sound like a free-form "pick on Alex" forum. She asked the class a specific question: to describe what they didn't like about the things he did. Even 5 year olds are smart enough to answer a question like that. And if you read her comments in the police report she sounds very concerned about the well-being of those kids, including Alex.

And let's be clear that he did do things to disrupt class. The incident that got him sent to the principal to begin with was that he was getting under desks and lifting them with his feet so that the papers and materials feel all over the floor. Not exactly conducive for learning is it?

Now, if Alex really doesn't understand what he's doing that would be one thing. But there are degrees to autism. The fact that Alex has been allowed into a regular kindergarden class makes me think that he isn't rocking-back-and-forth-card-counting-out-of-his-mind-crazy.

[Edited on May 30, 2008 at 5:36 PM. Reason : ``]

5/30/2008 5:33:08 PM

I didn't say that he was dimly aware 'of what goes on around him'. Five year olds act out for selfish reasons--I said Alex is likely only dimly aware that his behavior negatively impacts others. I can say this because he's 5 years old. It's unlikely that he or any other 5 year old has the emotional maturity to fully understand the emotional needs and states of others.

And let's be clear: I'm not saying that Alex should be in that classroom. However, the teacher handled the situation incorrectly. Now, this may be a response to other circumstances, e.g. school administration doesn't support the teachers properly, or Alex's parents inappropriately insist on mainstreaming. If such is the case, this situation needs to be adressed on a larger scale than an individual teacher.

5/30/2008 5:53:32 PM

Good Lord, the kid is five years-old. As long as they aren't playing with themselves or pooping their pants in class, they get an A+ in behavior from me.

Democracy, is great and all, but voting him out of the class is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.

As far as the list of bad qualities goes, that's not a horrible thing to do. But there's a right way to do it. Step one is also having a list of good qualities.

All in all, this teacher doesn't sound too bad though. Scale of one to ten, this Alex kid's humiliation probably comes in at a 6. It might affect him in the future, but kids are pretty resilient. More than anything, this sounds like a funny story: "And they fucking voted me out--14 to 2!!!" AHAHAHA

5/30/2008 6:11:50 PM

Since when do a bunch of 5 year old kids' opinions matter on an issue like this? Let's say Alex was just the classroom dork that didn't say anything and kept to himself. I'd be willing to bet if you let a bunch of 5 year olds vote on that they'd kick him out because he is "stupid". All of a sudden it's ok to kick a student out of class because he's unpopular?

5/30/2008 6:33:37 PM

Yes the teacher fucked up and should be punished. Nonetheless this does NOT warrant a child abuse charge. No more then the drunk driver getting charged with 2nd degree murder for someone he killed while driving impaired. Yes he should go to jail and will face the shit but he did not murder someone. Reckless operation of a vehicle and voluntary manslaughter yes.

[Edited on May 30, 2008 at 6:57 PM. Reason : l]

5/30/2008 6:56:56 PM

^ did you really just compare those two?

5/30/2008 7:20:31 PM

seriously? 5-year olds? Moral development at that age consists of one thing: if i am bad, I am punished. That is pretty much the way all 5-year olds see it. PSY101, people. Putting the kid in front of the class to "show him others felt" would accomplish nothing, because 5-year olds don't care what others feel!

The only real thing that happened here is that the teacher made the kid feel bad, which sort of works as a punishment, but there are far better methods available, and certainly ones that aren't as degrading. An authority-figure telling a kindergartner that "she hates him" is practically the worst thing you can do. Jeez!

The teacher should be fired on the spot. Child-abuse? Please, that's bullshit. But the teacher should be fired.

5/30/2008 7:46:23 PM

I don't think she should be fired. Teachers are human too, and in all likelihood what we have here is a rabid demon child (std disclaimer: figuratively speaking, tongue-in-cheek, have a sense of humor). I'm not sure the autism thing gives me much more sympathy -- kids act out for lots of reasons. Many have ridiculously bad home lives due to factors beyond their control. All bets are off.

Such is the perfect storm of public education -- teachers in a politically-correct pressure cooker, basically untrained to deal with kids that often have insane disciplinary and personal problems. But each one is a special little snowflake.

I really don't understand how or why people do it for a living ...

5/30/2008 8:12:14 PM

Ummm. I have taken no courses in teaching. And yet even I know that having a group of 5 year olds critique a peer is pointless. Moreover, I also know that telling a 5 year old that you hate him is a bad plan. Surely someone who has achieved a degree in education and is certified as an educator should know better. The bitch should be fired

5/30/2008 9:56:35 PM

Quote :

"I'm not sure the autism thing gives me much more sympathy -- kids act out for lots of reasons. Many have ridiculously bad home lives due to factors beyond their control. All bets are off."

His symptoms are fairly common for kids with autism. It doesn't make sense to punish him for being autistic, which is what this teacher is doing. If he is bad enough though, then its up to the school to decide to place him differently, but it's not the teachers place to humiliate him. There is no situation, ever, period where a teacher should publicly single out a student like this. I can't imagine why someone of 12 years experience would not get this. There has to be more to this story, it almost seems.

5/31/2008 12:03:17 AM

He'll grow up, shoot up a high school, and then we'll all talk about how senseless it was, what an evil person he was, and wonder why it happened...

5/31/2008 12:22:05 AM

He'll grow up, shoot up a high school, and then we'll all talk about how senseless it was, what an evil person he was, and wonder why it happened...

5/31/2008 1:32:12 AM

To the above posters ...

Smoker4:

Quote :

"Teachers are human too"

Since I meant it to be the main point, I actually put it at the front of my post. Funny huh?

Also if someone could point out where I was defending her actions as proper methodology, I'd like to see it. Considering that's not exactly what I said (at all).

People reach their breaking points in any high-stress job, and teaching is one of them. It's easy to sit around on a message board speculating. I'm sure all of you would expect to be "fired on the spot" for reaching your own breaking points.

5/31/2008 6:59:15 AM

So it's 100% confirmed that he's autistic?

I read that he was being tested for autism-- which doesn't mean a whole lot at that age.

When many parents realize that their kids are socially inept and unable to behave, they begin scrambling for a medical/psychological diagnosis for what is actually simply bad parenting.

5/31/2008 8:03:52 AM

Quote :

"When many parents realize that their kids are socially inept and unable to behave, they begin scrambling for a medical/psychological diagnosis for what is actually simply bad parenting. "

goddammit Boone, i sure wish you'd stick to talking about things which you have half a fucking clue about

aaronburro is absolutely right. these are five-year-old kids. they have no capacity to handle the responsibility of delivering judgment and punishment.

this teacher should be fired and face some sort of board review of her teaching license. furthermore, the entire school's administration involved should be investigated, and see what the hell is going wrong there.




[Edited on May 31, 2008 at 9:09 PM. Reason : ]

5/31/2008 8:59:32 PM

This is pretty messed up. It sounds like the kid doesn't belong in a regular class, but if he's autistic and can't help the way he acts, he shouldn't be ridiculed for it.

5/31/2008 10:37:43 PM

if he doesn't belong in a regular class, then the district should employ standard assessment practices as used by education professionals, and provide him with the resources he needs.

if he's high-functioning, or whatever, and falls within boundaries of "normal", then the teacher should in concert with the adminstration, establish clear boundaries of acceptable behavior as well a consequences for non-compliance.

what a teacher should NOT do, is set up some sort of 5-year-old Department of Justice, a la Lord of the Flies, and declare to the child in front of the class that "I hate you" and all this other shit that allegedly happened.

jesusfuckinchristalready.. 5-year-olds can not be given the responsibility of punishing their peers.

6/1/2008 1:52:36 AM

Quote :

"goddammit Boone, i sure wish you'd stick to talking about things which you have half a fucking clue about"

Dude, I'm a teacher. What are your credentials, again?


And for the record, I wasn't defending the teacher's actions-- I was trying to get clarification on the autism thing.

[Edited on June 1, 2008 at 9:30 AM. Reason : .]

6/1/2008 9:24:40 AM

I was thinking more people would be supportive of the teacher. I mean, she has apparently had similar problems with Alex like this in the past, she sent him to the principal, the principal sends him back, she didn't think she or her class was ready so she sent him to the nurse. The only thing anyone has disagreed with is that she allowed her fellow students to explain their discomfort with Alex's behavior and to voice their opinion of whether they wanted him back for this time period as well.

And I'm hearing a lot of conflicting reasons for why allowing the kids to voice their complaints was bad. Sometimes in the same post! Here is aaron.

Quote :

"seriously? 5-year olds? Moral development at that age consists of one thing: if i am bad, I am punished. That is pretty much the way all 5-year olds see it. PSY101, people. Putting the kid in front of the class to "show him others felt" would accomplish nothing, because 5-year olds don't care what others feel! The only real thing that happened here is that the teacher made the kid feel bad, which sort of works as a punishment, but there are far better methods available, and certainly ones that aren't as degrading. An authority-figure telling a kindergartner that "she hates him" is practically the worst thing you can do. Jeez!"

So....

1) Having the kids critique Alex's behavior would not do any good because 5-year olds are sociopathic robots that don't care how others feel.

2) Having the kids critique Alex's behavior was too harsh because 5-year olds feel bad if others don't like them.

Gosh that makes sense!

And some claims have been even more extreme. The kids is going to start shooting people because people did not like him acting out in class? WHAT? That's fucking retarded. If kids were that sensative they could NEVER be punished without them going Charles Manson later in life.

I think the problem is that a lot of people on this board are squimish with punishing children. They mistakenly see them as innocent little angels that need to be, rather than growing pre-adults that need to be taught how to behave in society. But..that's just my opinion.

[Edited on June 1, 2008 at 12:22 PM. Reason : ``]

6/1/2008 12:21:30 PM

Umm...I think you need to read the thread again.

Quote :

"The only thing anyone has disagreed with is that she allowed her fellow students to explain their discomfort with Alex's behavior and to voice their opinion of whether they wanted him back for this time period as well."

People have also disagreed with the fact that the teacher said 'I hate you'.

Nobody has said that Alex should not be punished. If normal classroom behavior is within his abilities (depending upon the severity of his autism), then he should most certainly be punished for acting out and disturbing the class. Such a punishment should be delivered only by the teacher and should take into account the emotional/developmental state of the child. Under no circumstances, however, should punishment involve the teacher saying 'I hate you' and asking a group of 5 year olds to serve as judge and jury. Five-year-olds lack the emotional maturity to fully grasp how their actions affect others--this includes both Alex and his classmates.

Quote :

"I think the problem is that a lot of people on this board are squimish with punishing children."

Speaking for myself, this is not at all the case. The punishment should be appropriate, and what Portillo did was not.

Quote :

"They mistakenly see them as innocent little angels that need to be, rather than growing pre-adults that need to be taught how to behave in society."

I don't think anyone sees Alex as an innocent little angel (though the state of his autism could be a mitigating factor). I (and others, from what I understand of their posts) find Portillo's behavior just as infantile as Alex's.

Incidently, the idea of children being l'ittle people' or 'pre-adults' went out with the Victorian Age. Children are markedly different than adults and need to be treated markedly different than adults.

6/1/2008 1:10:30 PM

Quote :

"The teacher fucked up, it's not her place to judge kids in front of the class, especially at such a young age. She should lose her job if she thinks something like that is appropriate for young children."

6/1/2008 1:21:40 PM

A Tan,

1) I also said that her alleged remark was wrong (it is only mentioned in the police report as comming from Alex's mother, who was not there). If that's your only beef with what she might have done then we are in agreement. If it isn't, I'm still waiting for someone to come up with a consistant rationale for why her punishment was wrong (beyond "it sounds like it would hurt his feelings and all children with hurt feelings grow up to shoot people from bell towers!!").

2) yes, they are different from adults. I did not call them "little adults" so don't put words in my mouth. I only meant that they are in a transformative period and one of the tasks of education is to teach children how to operate in the "grown up" world. Aaron's characterization of 5-year children as being totally oblivious to the feelings of others (essentially making them sociopathic robots) is simply just dead wrong (not to mention contradictory to his other remarks). Yet it's characterization of children that seems popular on this board. You've also made the same case:

Quote :

"Five year olds act out for selfish reasons--I said Alex is likely only dimly aware that his behavior negatively impacts others. I can say this because he's 5 years old."

Ask almost any 5-year old child how they think someone would feel if they got called a name and they will say "bad." It really is (believe it or not) a concept that 5-year olds can deal with. Why else do u think children call each other names? It isn't because they don't realize it will hurt the other's feelings, it's because they WANT to hurt the other's feelings. There is nothing dim about this understanding.

6/1/2008 3:29:12 PM

Quote :

"why cant we just kill everyone thats genetically fucked up...tired of worrying about these less fortunate people"

You'd be one of the first in line.

6/1/2008 3:58:13 PM

Quote :

"Aaron's characterization of 5-year children as being totally oblivious to the feelings of others (essentially making them sociopathic robots) is simply just dead wrong (not to mention contradictory to his other remarks). Yet it's characterization of children that seems popular on this board."

Alex is not a sociopath. His behavior, while disruptive, if certainly not deviant for a 5 year-old with autism.

I have not said that 5 year-olds are 'totally oblivious to the feelings of others'. I said that Alex (and other 5 year olds) are not fully capable of understanding the thoughts and feelings of others, or how one's own actions may affect others' thoughts and feelings. Many adults have difficulty with this, particularly when dealing with others from different backgrounds or cultures. Why is it so hard to understand that an inexperienced 5 year old meeting others in a kindergarten class would not also have difficulty?

Quote :

"Why else do u think children call each other names? It isn't because they don't realize it will hurt the other's feelings, it's because they WANT to hurt the other's feelings. There is nothing dim about this understanding."

No, 5 year-olds do not want to hurt others when they call them names. They want attention, which they get by provoking a response. The fact that they're hurting someone is incidental.

6/1/2008 4:29:02 PM

^ are you kidding me? Five year olds know good and well that calling people names is hurtful

6/1/2008 5:06:46 PM

okay, Boone, i didn't realize you were an educator. obviously you have more of a clue about these issues than the average person. sorry.

but for you to say,

Quote :

"When many parents realize that their kids are socially inept and unable to behave, they begin scrambling for a medical/psychological diagnosis for what is actually simply bad parenting."

is even more troublesome, that you are an educator. and i have to take serious exception to this.

I know firsthand of many parents who are NOT "bad parents", who are highly involved in their child's education and physical/mental/emotional development ... yet their child turns out to have some sort of behaviorial issue.

my own child, for example, had been recently diagnosed with a "moderate-to-severe" hearing impairment, that has made his behavior very challenging for us and his teachers. now that we FINALLY realize what the underlying problem is, we FINALLY got the appropriate treatment to what initially appeared to be a child who "just wouldnt pay attention"

for you to imply that some large amount of parents are merely looking for excuses to blame on their own incompetence really does a disservice to huge amounts of parents who are struggling to give their children the best opportunities in a system that wants to pigeonhole kids into a nice neat row of easily-categorized boxes.

and I'm curious. you say you're a teacher.... what do you teach, in what capacity, and to what type of students? whatever it is -- even if it's young elementary kids -- I'm confident in saying that you'll never understand the full complexity of these issues until you actually have children. may you be so lucky to have a child who doesn't have any disabilities of any sort.

6/1/2008 5:21:37 PM

Let me quote myself, this time with emphasis.

Quote :

"When many parents realize that their kids are socially inept and unable to behave, they begin scrambling for a medical/psychological diagnosis for what is actually simply bad parenting."

many, not all. I see why one would take offense to the statement if it were read the way you read it.

I was actually a bit of a rapscallion early in life because I was unable to properly communicate due to speech problems.

But the fact is, many parents frantically seek to diagnose away what is simply poor parenting. Therefore testing for autism does not mean the kid actually is autistic.

That's all I was saying.

[Edited on June 1, 2008 at 5:37 PM. Reason : .]

[Edited on June 1, 2008 at 5:39 PM. Reason : .]

6/1/2008 5:36:15 PM

Quote :

"^ are you kidding me? Five year olds know good and well that calling people names is hurtful"

I'm just saying that the goal of 5 year old name calling has more to do with getting attention than it has to do with specifically hurting someone else.

6/1/2008 6:06:54 PM

ug.

[Edited on June 1, 2008 at 6:36 PM. Reason : ``]

6/1/2008 6:36:17 PM

ug?

[Edited on June 1, 2008 at 7:37 PM. Reason : pad]

6/1/2008 7:36:51 PM

Quote :

"If you're trying to change a child's behavior, those sound like good hit points. You apparently don't like it because it made the kid feel bad, but I would argue that that's part of the point. He should learn to associate disrupting class with feeling bad. It really isn't that much different from having to stand in the corner (another publicly humiliating forms of punishment)."

As a teacher, I have to agree with this. I teach at a school where we're not really allowed to do ANYTHING to punish the students. So the results are disruptive kids who make class hell for everyone else in it. One time I had the administration jumping on me for making a kid swap seats with another kid so he'd stop talking to his friend during the class.

While I don't agree with having the teacher say, "I hate you right now," I'm not sure I see anything wrong with telling a kid what behavior of his is pissing off everyone else. Hell, I remember in middle school having a teacher that every day would make students stand in front of the entire class and tell them why they didn't do their homework for the day. It was embarrassing as hell but eventually everyone was turning in their homework every day. Something tells me in today's schools the teacher would get in trouble for that

6/2/2008 10:05:08 AM

disruptive kids need to be removed from class and/or punished. Teachers and kids who are there to learn shouldn't have to put up with it.

If the kid is retarded, then put him in with the rest of the retards so he can get specific help. Putting them in the normal population isn't helping anyone.

If the kid is just being a dick, then punish him and hope he eventually learns how to behave.

6/2/2008 10:25:36 AM