i apologize already for the large amount of text

although i know there is no way for this to be completely objective....

which skillset is more marketable and worth more

here's the backstory
i'm a consultant and work on multiple projects throughout the year - currently the group i'm in is a wireless group and the development work is 100% java - within my group i do about 10% development / 70% RFID deployments / 20% sys admin work

i've got a java background but the last project i worked on was a windows mobile project done in .net (lead by the microsoft group - lasted ~8months - we built a framework to be able to quickly develop multiple mobile applications and the 1st of those applications) - it took me about 2 weeks to have almost a complete transfer of skills (not including specific frameworks that aren't available for both and the such) - i really enjoyed the work and the team i worked with was either the best or 2nd best (with the other one actually being a team from another group - not my own)

the MS group has an opening and the guys i worked with on my last project have recommended me for it and are trying to recruit me and i can't decide what to do so trying to get some more opinions

the differences between the groups are
within the company i work for 90-95% of all development is done in java but the wireless group has highs and lows with the amount of work so sometimes i sit waiting for the next project to start - this hurts because i have a target utilization of the number of hours i am supposed to bill clients each year - up until april of this year my manager was someone i wasn't very close with but that changed and now i work with someone who i'd consider to be a friend (raises are coming in 2 weeks so we'll see if that played a role at all)

the MS group is kind of the step-child within the company but i've been told there is always work and most of it is fun (like the project i just got done with) but of course every once in a while there are crappy projects that can't be avoided - the main guy that is trying to recruit me to the MS group is a guy that i really respect both as an individual and technically - he mentored me on this past project and i learned more during those months than i have during my entire career - there is no gaurantee that we would ever work together regardless of which group i'm in though

if i were to remain in the wireless group then i could work on some MS projects still but i wouldn't get first dibs and would merely be a resource that they could call on if they were short a man

if i were to go over to the MS group then it's not very likely at all that i'd get to do RFID work anymore - which i love to do the most of anything i've done so far but the work is sometimes sporatic and typically shorter and last 2 weeks - 2 months which means i have to hop projects more often and it's rough on utilization which effects my bonuses, raises, and promotions

i will try to add anything that i've forgotten and please ask questions

5/28/2008 7:25:18 PM

i'm a .net developer and really enjoy it. i haven't done java since college though so i might be biased. two of the guys i work with came from java dev work and say they like .net better

5/28/2008 7:35:42 PM

overall i did enjoy the .net development more - i am uncertain if that was just because it was .netcf and it was intriguing to work with the limitations of .netcf as well as device limitations

sucks our RFID work isn't done in .net and it's not likely that i could cause a shift due to the current environment

5/28/2008 7:45:38 PM

I started out doing Java for 2 years out of school and picked up .NET 'recreationally'.

I quickly realized that I enjoyed .NET much more and haven't looked back.

I'm in Charlotte so banking is big. Both Wachovia and Bank of America have both platforms I'd say 40%/60% .NET/Java.

5/28/2008 7:50:33 PM

^ where do you work? i'm in charlotte too

5/28/2008 8:07:22 PM

Having recently looked for a job

I saw a ton of .NET positions, but can't remember any pure Java positions - if that helps.

5/28/2008 8:35:20 PM

java is horseshit

5/28/2008 8:45:18 PM

i would think .net is far more marketable. plus this sounds like a pretty nice way to expand your skillset

5/28/2008 9:21:51 PM

outside of big blue, .NET is a much more marketable and higher paid skillset to have (in general). It REALLY depends on your market though. Knowing java allows you to transition easily to pretty much and MS language. .NET (I'm assuming you were working in C#) is a pretty easy transition, and I've heard the same sentiments from everyone I've talked to who has moved from Java to a .NET language.

5/28/2008 9:44:08 PM

yeah it was a mixture of vb and c# - it would have been all c# but some of the client's side wasn't able to make the leap to c# due to their heavy background in procedure vb6 and powerbuilder

i've heard it's not that hard to go from java - > MS but the other way around is sometimes difficult - it did seem pretty easy the way i went but of course have no experience the other way - just what i heard

so far it seems pretty one-sided

5/28/2008 9:48:23 PM

yeah, going the other way is generally a lot more difficult. Java devs usually come from an academic background (university CS degrees and postgraduate work). C#/VB devs are a much more mixed bag. So having the theory background makes the leap easy, which usually correlates to Java guys learning new languages pretty fast, while the other way doesn't always work out so well.

The one thing I will say based on first-hand knowledge is that most Java/C/C++/Perl converts to any .NET language are usually really slow at it. MS has built a LOT of framework elements to do common tasks and complex tasks with little code, which is a complete 180 from the concepts of most traditional languages, so many converts end up spending a lot of time reinventing the wheel so-to-speak because they don't expect such solutions to exist.

That said, there are still many industries that are almost, if not entirely Java exclusive, so really it's about where you want to go and what you want to do. Then look at the market for the industry and see what the current, and more importantly, future platform technologies are

5/28/2008 11:44:18 PM

I really wish I had the opportunity to exp .Net in college. As a CSC major they have shoved Java down my throat and looking for a job requiring .Net experience is out the question. Even in my senior year i wanted to take a .Net course but it didn't count towards the csc major curric.

5/29/2008 1:20:01 AM

Quote :

"Even in my senior year i wanted to take a .Net course but it didn't count towards the csc major curric"

wtf is that all about? M$ hate?

5/29/2008 9:07:44 AM

It's because NCSU and most universities do not want to teach application, only theory. I offered to teach a course on web application development (cross section of RDBMS, client-server development) but as soon as they saw I was going to teach applied programming they told me to take it to Wake Tech. BULLSHIT

5/29/2008 11:58:42 AM

oh heaven forbid you teach something which will actually make people valuable in the marketplace

5/29/2008 12:34:54 PM

topic has begun to be derailed

5/29/2008 12:41:05 PM

sry yo, but i think the choice for you is pretty clear.

Quote :

"the MS group is kind of the step-child within the company"

of the red headed variety? bad enough to where it might affect future advancement?

5/29/2008 1:24:48 PM

good point - I forgot to address that

it probably will have little effect on advancement if I change or stay

however it could potentially effect my ability to transfer to a non-traveling job - with both of these groups trvael is about 100%- I plan to have kids in 3-4 years and when I do i'll stop traveling - there is a possibility to transfer to another group that has no travel but with most if not all of those being somewhat java related

if I change groups then I am almost setting myself up to leave when kids become a reality which I don't necessarily view as a bad thing

5/29/2008 3:34:02 PM

In 3-5 years you shouldnt be doing actual coding anymore anyway. You should hopefully be in a higher level position than that, unless you just love development. In which case knowing both would be a benefit

5/29/2008 5:40:43 PM

Quote :

"qntmfred - where do you work? i'm in charlotte too"

BofA - in ITC.

Quote :

"Java devs usually come from an academic background (university CS degrees and postgraduate work). C#/VB devs are a much more mixed bag."

Excellent point, I've seen a lot more bad .NET developers that came up the VB/procedural route than Java turned C# developers.

5/29/2008 8:23:03 PM

Quote :

"I really wish I had the opportunity to exp .Net in college. As a CSC major they have shoved Java down my throat and looking for a job requiring .Net experience is out the question. Even in my senior year i wanted to take a .Net course but it didn't count towards the csc major curric."

This is whiny BS. The vast majority of companies hire entry level, and no one expects you to be an expert in anything coming out of college. (And if you are basing this on the "requirements" in job ads, then you are naive. Most ads overstate what is required hoping for the pipe dream where they will find that genius who is entry level, knows everything that is required, and will work for entry level salary).

What companies would really like to see is that you were intellectually curious enough to try stuff out on your own outside of class. If you don't demonstrate the curiosity and the capacity to learn independently, then you aren't an attractive candidate, anyway.

It's simple: Outside of class, pick an application that you want to make or need, pick the language/api that you don't know, and build that application. Then, put this on your resume. If "developed xyx app outside of class" is on your resume, they're going to ask you about it in an interview. This is how you show curiosity and independent learning skills.

A company would be fucking stupid to hire someone who doesn't enjoy learning programming outside of class.

[Edited on May 29, 2008 at 9:16 PM. Reason : .]

5/29/2008 9:13:34 PM

Quote :

"What companies would really like to see is that you were intellectually curious enough to try stuff out on your own outside of class. If you don't demonstrate the curiosity and the capacity to learn independently, then you aren't an attractive candidate, anyway."

Well said.

5/29/2008 11:01:28 PM

Quote :

"In 3-5 years you shouldnt be doing actual coding anymore anyway. You should hopefully be in a higher level position than that, unless you just love development"

something about this really irks me. yes, the typical ideal career path involves promotion, but i just hate that it's assumed that programmers will end up in management after 5-10 years. just b/c you're a good programmer doesn't make you a good manager. i know this is the way it works, especially in big companies like ibm, but it seems lazy to me.

5/29/2008 11:41:56 PM

Quote :

"i know this is the way it works, especially in big companies like ibm, but it seems lazy to me."

most of the people i work with have been in a technical/non-managerial role for over 10 years - mainly because they love doing it and don't want to be a manager

i'm not so sure that it always works the way mentioned

that said - in a few years i would like to not be programming for my job

5/29/2008 11:43:35 PM

^^Most places are like that, but it's up to you to control your career path. There are many places where you can get paid, have responsibilities, and still be heavily technical. I'd bet that companies who try to keep strong technical people in technical position are better places to work, more successful.

5/30/2008 12:02:28 AM

it's not so much that i feel that unless I get promoted to management I'm not successful, it's that other people get promoted who shouldn't be there, just for the sake of promotion

5/30/2008 12:06:34 AM

no doubt.

5/30/2008 12:32:11 AM

Quote :

"something about this really irks me. yes, the typical ideal career path involves promotion, but i just hate that it's assumed that programmers will end up in management after 5-10 years. just b/c you're a good programmer doesn't make you a good manager. i know this is the way it works, especially in big companies like ibm, but it seems lazy to me."

I said that knowing Omar personally.

But I also never said management. There are LOTS of technical roles that are non-developer, mainly architects, patterns and practice, mentors and lead positions.

5/30/2008 1:16:51 AM

Quote :

"I really wish I had the opportunity to exp .Net in college. As a CSC major they have shoved Java down my throat and looking for a job requiring .Net experience is out the question. Even in my senior year i wanted to take a .Net course but it didn't count towards the csc major curric."

if you want to learn a programming language, goto technical college.

if you want to learn how to program, goto a university.

5/30/2008 3:03:18 AM