3/21/2008 1:03:56 AM

3/21/2008 1:19:32 AM

They said the same thing about Vietnam, the rest of Asia would fall to the red menace

and magically, nothing happened

3/21/2008 1:24:37 AM

^ Yeah, Laos and Cambodia are still laughing at us over that.

3/21/2008 1:30:15 AM

Posting on this messageboard will surely bring about change

3/21/2008 1:31:52 AM

Don't forget, we can't pull out. The Viet Cong will follow us home!

3/21/2008 1:33:13 AM

wait, i thought failure and complete civil war were inevitable, which is the big reason that we should leave now before we lose any more lives or dollars?

are you telling me now that it'll all work out if we just leave it alone?

which one is it?

3/21/2008 1:38:07 AM

Yes, because international terrorism was a hallmark of Viet Cong strategy.

3/21/2008 1:39:26 AM

you don't even need to go down that road to shoot these arguments down

3/21/2008 1:40:45 AM

I'm realizing that.

Besides, Iraq/Vietnam comparisons are so 2004.

3/21/2008 1:46:17 AM

we could save ourselves these arguments if we just stopped going to war

3/21/2008 1:48:41 AM

These are the same motherfuckers that were against the surge

What we need to do is send those heat ray gun tanks and that robot dog over to the troops to finish the job

3/21/2008 1:49:36 AM

You cannot "win" the war in Iraq without ending the stream of fighting men and arms from Saudi Arabia, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Yemen, UAE, etc.

5 years and half a trillion dollars later, we are no closer to winning the war than we started. We can either address the perceived threat of international terrorism that exists heavily in other countries we are not even at war with, or we can face the real threat of financial insolvency which will affect every single American for perhaps the rest of our country's history.

Millions of Americans are losing their homes. Millions of Americans are dying from preventable illnesses due to lack of health care. That is the real threat to National Security. That is the real terrorism.

3/21/2008 1:52:09 AM

You fucking moron, have you even seen the ray gun tank? It was on 60 minutes like 2 weeks ago.

also the robot dog is on youtube

3/21/2008 1:53:27 AM

^^ oh snap

[Edited on March 21, 2008 at 1:54 AM. Reason : - a heat ray gun up your ass]

3/21/2008 1:54:06 AM

Quote :

"Millions of Americans are losing their homes."

Iraq caused the housing boom and the ensuing shady lending practices?

Quote :

"Millions of Americans are dying from preventable illnesses due to lack of health care."

Iraq took away my health care?

3/21/2008 1:58:28 AM

you're right

we're better off sinking trillions into foreign wars
everything at home will just work itself out

3/21/2008 1:59:39 AM

Thats exactly what I said. I'm glad that you're astute enough to pick up on it.

3/21/2008 2:03:07 AM

no, you shut up!

3/21/2008 2:04:05 AM

You know, animals never have war. War is an invention of mankind.

3/21/2008 2:22:54 AM

Quote :

"we could save ourselves these arguments if we just stopped going to war "

yeah, but not this argument--we already went.

Quote :

"You cannot "win" the war in Iraq without ending the stream of fighting men and arms from Saudi Arabia, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Yemen, UAE, etc. "

That's debateable, I'd say...although yeah, it would sure as shit make things easier.

Quote :

"5 years and half a trillion dollars later, we are no closer to winning the war than we started. "

Maybe, but that's irrelevent. What matters is whether or not we think staying is a good bet--because it is precisely that. It's like having a ton of chips thrown in a game poker and having, say, three deuces. You have a real shot at winning, but you could very easily lose. Do you fold, or do you throw in some more chips? If you fold, you're fucked proper for sure. If you stay, you may or may not be fucked. You have to weigh the costs, benefits, and risks.

Quote :

"We can either address the perceived threat of international terrorism that exists heavily in other countries we are not even at war with, or we can face the real threat of financial insolvency which will affect every single American for perhaps the rest of our country's history. "

Well, you're preaching to the choir about the financial insolvency. Remember, I'm the fiscal conservative. How you can make this statement, then turn around and follow it up with:

Quote :

"Millions of Americans are losing their homes. Millions of Americans are dying from preventable illnesses due to lack of health care. That is the real threat to National Security. That is the real terrorism. "

...blows my mind. What it seems clear that you are insinuating is that the money we're spending in Iraq could be spent on housing bailouts and socialized health care. This is flawed and I don't feel like getting sidetracked into it here. Furthermore, it isn't the job of the Federal government to bail out idiot homeowners or idiot businesses, and it isn't their job to provide healthcare (I think the system we have now is broken, but socialized medicine sure as shit isn't the way to fix it).

3/21/2008 2:29:12 AM

Quote :

"Maybe, but that's irrelevent. What matters is whether or not we think staying is a good bet--because it is precisely that. It's like having a ton of chips thrown in a game poker and having, say, three deuces. You have a real shot at winning, but you could very easily lose. Do you fold, or do you throw in some more chips? If you fold, you're fucked proper for sure. If you stay, you may or may not be fucked. You have to weigh the costs, benefits, and risks."

Good to know that we're gambling with men's lives.

3/21/2008 2:31:34 AM

unfortunately, you can't avoid doing so.

kinda like "if you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice"

3/21/2008 2:35:45 AM

We have the world's most advanced, costly and powerful military, but our nearest enemies are on the other side of the world, divided by huge expanses of ocean. We will never again have a war fought on our own soil based on the simple logistics of getting here. All we really need to secure our nation's defense is a strong navy and air force, and perhaps a space command.

Having such a huge Army only has any practical use for offensive operations. And who knows how many more future wars we will launch under the guise of "national defense". Perhaps we can give Blackwater's private army the contracts, you know, for "smaller" government. The company will be sure to keep donating funds to the reelection campaigns of Republican congressmen who will vote to continue the war and continue steering the nation's wealth to a handful of connected political allies, because they are more deserving than the American taxpayer.

3/21/2008 2:45:23 AM

Quote :

"theDuke866: Maybe, but that's irrelevent. What matters is whether or not we think staying is a good bet--because it is precisely that. It's like having a ton of chips thrown in a game poker and having, say, three deuces. You have a real shot at winning, but you could very easily lose. Do you fold, or do you throw in some more chips? If you fold, you're fucked proper for sure. If you stay, you may or may not be fucked. You have to weigh the costs, benefits, and risks."

My poker analogy was better.

Quote :

"SourPatchin: We're clinging to a pair of twos in a hand that never ends"

message_topic.aspx?topic=517913&page=1#11387672

3/21/2008 2:51:37 AM

look

if we had a less interventionist foreign policy (taking both the positives and the negatives that come with such an approach), we could certainly get by with a smaller military (though not a total lack of ground forces, and using private contractors would definitely not be the way to field the ones that we did keep. Funny how you're for yielding the legitimate functions of our Federal gov't to the private sector, but want Uncle Sam engaged in all sorts of activities that are clearly unconstitutional. I can't figure that one out). The broadest point you are making is one that I will happily concede, as it is what we in the biz refer to as a "no shitter." Oh, and our army (in the general sense, to include our Marine ground forces) is relatively very small. That is DEFINITELY not where we put the real emphasis, in the grand scheme.

3/21/2008 2:53:56 AM

please no fagging up my thread with quotebombs, k?

we gots a section for that





















GET UR INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS NOSTRADAMUS ON, Y'ALL

[Edited on March 21, 2008 at 3:05 AM. Reason : Saruman says: They will TOTALLY NOT know what to do without us.]

3/21/2008 3:00:18 AM

who's asked us to leave?

3/21/2008 3:03:57 AM

Is asking really necessary when you approve of the murder of our forces?

Not that no one's asked...

http://www.newyorker.com/talk/comment/2007/10/22/071022taco_talk_wright

Who needs a Vietnam comparison when you can just compare it to the kind of thinking that got us into this war in the first damn place?

[Edited on March 21, 2008 at 3:16 AM. Reason : .]

3/21/2008 3:08:28 AM

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/02/29/60minutes/main3891865.shtml


GIVE IT A CHANCE

3/21/2008 3:18:13 AM

the 3 vietnam veterans i've talked to about the iraq war have told me we should get out asap

3/21/2008 3:21:10 AM

no seriously, supposed we stay there for X more years and by some miracle, the insurgents lay down their arms.

What do we get? Nothing. Just wasted money.

3/21/2008 5:20:42 AM

i done falled up into da soapbox

3/21/2008 5:37:09 AM

You stole my crystal ball, Gamecat!

Quote :

"Don't forget, we can't pull out. The Viet Cong will follow us home!"

Scuba Steve

You've pinpointed one primary difference in this war and that one--terrorists will follow us home.

[Edited on March 21, 2008 at 5:44 AM. Reason : .]

3/21/2008 5:40:33 AM

Quote :

"i done falled up into da soapbox"

This is what happens when you're tired of getting your ass handed to you in Soap Box, so you come to Chit Chat for redemption.

3/21/2008 5:51:04 AM

You'd have to actually address comments to have lay any sort of claim to "ass-handing" JCASHFAN.

3/21/2008 3:02:51 PM

Quote :

"RAY GUN TANK"

3/21/2008 3:04:32 PM

Gamecat just hates Bush beyond reason.

I have no basis to say this. But it goes along with this thread theme

3/21/2008 3:06:05 PM

I wish their was a section on TWW - that you could talk politics.

3/21/2008 3:07:19 PM

srsly

3/21/2008 3:08:53 PM

Quote :

"(CBS) What if we told you the Pentagon has a ray gun? And what if we told you it can stop a person in his tracks without killing or even injuring him? Well, it’s true. You can’t see it, you can't hear it, but as CBS News correspondent David Martin experienced first hand, you can feel it. Pentagon officials call it a major breakthrough which could change the rules of war and save huge numbers of lives in Iraq. It's a gun that doesn't look anything like a gun: it's that flat dish antenna which shoots out a 100,000-watt beam at the speed of light, hitting any thing in its path with an intense blast of heat. An operator uses a joystick to zero in on a target. Visible only with an infrared camera, the gun, when fired emits a flash of white hot energy -- an electromagnetic beam made up of very high frequency radio waves. Col. Kirk Hymes, head of the Joint Non-Lethal Weapons Directorate, is in charge of the ray gun which is being tested at Moody Air Force Base in southern Georgia. The targets at the base are people, military volunteers creating a scenario soldiers might encounter in Iraq, like angry protestors advancing on American troops, who have to choose between backing down or opening fire. Off in the distance, half a mile away, the operator of the ray gun has the crowd in his sights. Unlike the soldiers on the ground, he has no qualms about firing away because his weapon won't injure anyone. He squeezes off a blast and the first shot hits like an invisible punch. The protestors regroup and he fires again, and again. Finally they’ve had enough. The ray gun drives them away with no harm done. Officially called the "Active Denial System," it does penetrate the body, but just barely. What happens when the beam hits a person? "It's absorbed in the top layer, 1/64th of an inch, which is about three sheets of paper that you’d find in your printer," Col. Hymes explains. "And it’s hitting what inside that 1/64th of an inch?" Martin asks. "Well, right within that 1/64th of an inch is where the nerve endings are," Hymes says. "

Quote :

"DEUS EX MACHINA"

3/21/2008 3:11:35 PM

Chicago Tribune article, Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL) "said there wasn't much difference between his position and George Bush's position on the [Iraq] war."



lol

3/21/2008 3:14:01 PM

BEU just wants you to pay for a perpetual shooting gallery of brown people for he and his buddies.

I have no basis to say this, but it fits with his response.

Let's throw more money at the problem!



[Edited on March 21, 2008 at 3:28 PM. Reason : keep spending your money and lives! if we sink far enough, we'll just surface again!]

3/21/2008 3:20:32 PM

Quote :

"You'd have to actually address comments to have lay any sort of claim to "ass-handing" JCASHFAN."

I did, you just didn't like my answers. Its ok, I didn't mean to bruise your little TWW ego. Sorry there little feller

3/21/2008 3:29:14 PM

LOL

You'd have to use logic to do that.

*pats your lil' head*

I promise. I'll be just fine...

When you get around to tackling my idea for solving the problem in Iraq (which you didn't do, sorry to correct, but it was on page 1 of that thread), please let me know.

So do you guys use tarot cards to divine the future? Or dice?

With all that $$$ you guys should have a fucking sweet Ms. Cleo machine...

[Edited on March 21, 2008 at 3:39 PM. Reason : learn to debate...until then, we'll have to do this in chit chat i guess]

3/21/2008 3:32:05 PM

Posting on this messageboard will surely bring about change

They should turn the ray gun on you treasonous ultraliberal scum

3/21/2008 3:37:14 PM

Bring'em on!



[Edited on March 21, 2008 at 3:41 PM. Reason : And who you callin liberal, white man?]

3/21/2008 3:40:31 PM

^ I just addressed the logistics part of your argument based on my experience. I don't have answers for the larger questions


Don't hate little man, there is enough in the world already

[Edited on March 21, 2008 at 3:50 PM. Reason : what the world, needs now . . . is love, sweet love . . .]

3/21/2008 3:47:16 PM

I only hate whoever the tarot cards tell me it's ok to.

I only kill when the crystal ball blesses the murder.

4 1000 MORE YEARS!!!

3/21/2008 4:16:58 PM

set em up

3/21/2008 4:17:28 PM