Quote :

"CHAPEL HILL - Sometime tonight, North Carolina forward Tyler Hansbrough will inevitably stand his ground, hit the floor, draw a whistle -- and Virginia fans will call foul. Taking a charge, which the two-time All-America has done a career-best 26 times this season, is a form of art as much as a feat of athleticism. And while Hansbrough said there is no fake-contact "flopping" involved in his ground-hits, some ACC coaches and players admit it sometimes takes a bit of theater to draw the referees' attention. Which has earned defenders such as Hansbrough, Duke's Kyle Singler (13 charges taken) and N.C. State's Gavin Grant (seven) the title of "bard" as much as "ball player" in many opposing arenas. "Acting? We use that word and say [a player] is an 'actor' but I think it's helping the official to see that, 'Hey, I'm here, I'm in position and I'm taking it right in the chest or right in the gut,' " N.C. State coach Sidney Lowe said. "I think when you see some guys flying back seven, eight feet away, that's a little over the top. Sound effects, head jerking back, all of that -- no." But, Lowe added, "You do have to sell it." John Clougherty, who coordinates the ACC men's basketball officials, said calling a charge is the hardest determination an official has to make. The guys in stripes have just a split second to determine whether a defender's feet were planted before an offensive player makes contact -- which is an even more difficult task if the ballhandler blows by his primary foe and ends up barreling into the secondary "help." The official also has to determine whether contact was actually made. "Some players are just experts at embellishing it and exaggerating it and using their voice in an effort to fool the referee ... we have players in this league that are masters of it,'' Clougherty said. Fake or foul, taking a charge can have as much or more impact as blocking a shot -- which is why teams without burly shot swatters preach it so much. For instance, because No. 2 Duke is playing four guards and one lanky forward in Singler this season, the Blue Devils rely even more heavily on taking offensive charges to counter their lack of bulk inside. Sophomore wing Gerald Henderson said Duke players started learning how to take charges their first day of practice. Thus, four different players (including Henderson) have earned whistles at least nine times this season. "Do we use it as a tactic? Absolutely," Henderson said. "We're a team that's not going to be able to block a whole lot of shots. If we do [block shots], it'll be from the help side and a lot of perimeter blocked shots. So we have to be quick and help each other inside by getting into position [for charges]." And how much does acting play into it? "You gotta sell the call," Henderson said, grinning. "I don't have a percentage for you. You have to sell it to the referee." Still, some of the biggest impacts -- literally -- occur when big guys take the fall. When N.C. State forward J.J. Hickson drew a charge from Virginia Tech's J.T. Thompson in the final minute earlier this month, for instance, it helped thwart any Hokies comeback attack and seal the Wolfpack's 73-63 victory. (Hickson has three charges this season.) "When you have a big guy who's willing to take a charge, then he becomes even better defensively,'' Lowe said. "Because as a guard, when you're driving in there and you're trying to draw contact, you don't know whether he's going to go for the block or take that charge. And sometimes, taking the charge is better." For the 6-foot-9 Hansbrough, that was the case at Clemson last month when he stepped in front of K.C. Rivers with 47.6 seconds left to give the Tar Heels a chance to win it in regulation. In the end, it took an overtime period and a Wayne Ellington 3-pointer to prevail 90-88 but the charge halted a potential go-ahead bucket, swung possession and momentum. "It was probably the most important one I've taken,'' said Hansbrough. "It goes back to playing a little better defense. I think sometimes a situation just presents itself, and I'm just there. Other times, I've gotten older and matured a little bit, and that's something I'm looking for a little more." A little? The ACC doesn't keep stats on charges taken, but according to the teams' records, Hansbrough alone has taken more charges than the Wolfpack players combined. Clougherty said he's seen charges increase over the years as more teams have gone to a fast-paced, transition-oriented attack. Hansbrough's have increased because he wants to play better defense. "He is not a guy that has a 7-4 wingspan that's going to jump over the moon and block shots; he's got to be selective with them," UNC coach Roy Williams said. "But he is tough enough to stand in there, and I wish we had a couple other guys who would be that tough to stand in there." Williams, whose fifth-ranked team plays the Cavaliers in Charlottesvile tonight, said he doesn't believe in the "acting" method of taking a charge -- and that when his players do get charging calls, they are legitimate. "I hate teams that just flop all the time, and if you see one of my guys flopping, then it's a guy that I'm going to be really ticked at,'' Williams said. "Twenty years as a head coach and I've never had anybody that other teams would talk about as a flopper." Which may be a good thing, because according to Clougherty, flopping can eventually bruise more than a player's body in the official's eyes. "Eventually, the actors hurt themselves because as many teams as we have, [the officials] get to know who are the guys who are trying to fool them, and they discuss those things in the pregame -- the certain players out there that are taking flops, not contact," he said. " ... So while they may get a call that one time, they may not get a call later when there is legitimate contact. ... Eventually, it does even out." Even if fans are still calling foul. "

2/12/2008 11:16:04 AM

Quote :

"Williams, whose fifth-ranked team plays the Cavaliers in Charlottesvile tonight, said he doesn't believe in the "acting" method of taking a charge -- and that when his players do get charging calls, they are legitimate. "I hate teams that just flop all the time, and if you see one of my guys flopping, then it's a guy that I'm going to be really ticked at,'' Williams said. "Twenty years as a head coach and I've never had anybody that other teams would talk about as a flopper.""

oh oh, the Mel Gibsons on here wont like this one bit

2/12/2008 11:20:08 AM

interesting.

2/12/2008 11:20:42 AM

Quote :

"Which may be a good thing, because according to Clougherty, flopping can eventually bruise more than a player's body in the official's eyes.* "Eventually, the actors hurt themselves because as many teams as we have, [the officials] get to know who are the guys who are trying to fool them, and they discuss those things in the pregame -- the certain players out there that are taking flops, not contact," he said. " ... So while they may get a call that one time, they may not get a call later when there is legitimate contact. ... Eventually, it does even out.*""

* Does not apply to the Duke Blue Devils.

2/12/2008 11:25:54 AM

^^^
http://www.fanblogs.com/sec/004675.php

2/12/2008 11:27:22 AM

heres the thing about Hansbrough

he clearly flops...if he's not an obvious flopper answer me this...how come when Hansbrough has the ball in the paint and is taking it strong to the hole and he gets hammered by two forwards and a center, he's ok, he gets a shot off...but when he doesn't have the ball and he's 30' from the basket, a tiny PG can easily flatten him

2/12/2008 11:27:49 AM

i want to know how grant is labeled as a flopper with a whopping 7 charges taken.

hansbrough has 24!
singler has 13!
henderson and 3 other duke players have 9+ each!

and mention grant (7) as a flopper.

[Edited on February 12, 2008 at 11:29 AM. Reason : i guess they didn't call bs on hickson's charge. reading comprehension ftl.]

2/12/2008 11:27:58 AM

^^^ what a dumb post, has nothing to do with flopping in the ACC, or even BBALL, I mean, I appreciate the positive press for Tennessee but it has nothing to do with this topic...

2/12/2008 12:10:17 PM

Except that NC State has no rival either

2/12/2008 12:13:35 PM

lol

2/12/2008 12:21:32 PM

State:

bball - UNC, Duke, Wake
football - UNC, FSU, ECU

Tennessee:

bball/football - MTSU

2/12/2008 12:27:59 PM

I mean, Tennessee cant help it that 95% of the time they beat the living fuck out of who "should" be their rival, Vandy and Kentucky. Bama/UT was the biggest for a long time, Auburn and Bama didnt even play each other for years and years. Florida was an afterthought until Spurrier got there and everyone else is too far away or they dont play them every year

2/12/2008 12:31:17 PM

dude, you have easily the biggest school in your state (whereas North Carolina has NCSU, UNC, etc...South Carolina has USC, Clemson....etc)...and you border 8 other states

you're simply going to have to go out of state for a rival, except for Middle Tennessee State

2/12/2008 12:36:07 PM

Oh yeah, I forgot, The University of Kentucky is in Tennessee

2/12/2008 12:37:01 PM

why in the world did this turn into a tennessee arguing thread?

(I know it wasnt you jaybee, it was directed toward the guy who posted the completely unrelated link)

Memphis is in Tennessee...

[Edited on February 12, 2008 at 12:38 PM. Reason : asd]

2/12/2008 12:37:27 PM

Kentucky's rival is Louisville

They are both in the same state

try again

2/12/2008 12:37:38 PM

not in football... trust me, if there is ONE game that Kentucky would want to win, its against TN, not even close


^^ yup, they bring up Tennessee a LOT more than I do

[Edited on February 12, 2008 at 12:40 PM. Reason : d]

2/12/2008 12:38:19 PM

This thread has flopped and should be teed up

2/12/2008 12:41:32 PM

to get us back on track, somebody address what i said earlier about Psycho Traveler

Quote :

"heres the thing about Hansbrough he clearly flops...if he's not an obvious flopper answer me this...how come when Hansbrough has the ball in the paint and is taking it strong to the hole and he gets hammered by two forwards and a center, he's ok, he gets a shot off...but when he doesn't have the ball and he's 30' from the basket, a tiny PG can easily flatten him"

2/12/2008 12:43:49 PM

When you're standing there and some dude comes barreling into you, it's a lot harder to stay on your feet than when you're actively moving and balancing.

Example: You're standing somewhere in line waiting for something. An average sized woman walks into you from behind and makes you fall forward. Not knock you off feet, but knock you off balance and make you take a step forward. Now imagine a 6'2" male athlete running into you at full speed. If you're just standing there you're probably gonna get knocked over. But if you're actively moving and balancing yourself, you're going to stand a much better chance of staying on your feet. Sure you can embellish it a little bit, but it probably won't take much if you're actually in good position (which I will admit, Hansbrough usually is even though he sucks huge balls).

[Edited on February 12, 2008 at 12:49 PM. Reason : ]

2/12/2008 12:47:00 PM

^^Did he even fall when he got his nose busted open???

2/12/2008 12:57:35 PM

^^but are you telling me hansbrough's balance completely sucks on defense, so much that a skinny point guard can send him flying...but his balance on offense is so good that he can take multiple hard shots and still score?

2/12/2008 1:02:08 PM

No, I'm saying that when you're stationary it's a lot harder to balance than when you're moving. Like in the ocean, if you're standing there letting the waves hit you it's impossible to stay on your feet for an extended period of time. But if you're moving through the water it's pretty easy to stay on your feet. When you are controlling your inertia it's a helluva lot easier to balance than when you have to react to someone else running into you. I'm sure he acts a little bit on some charges, but I'd say the majority of them are legit.

2/12/2008 1:09:02 PM

how in the hell was paulus not mentioned in that article?

2/12/2008 1:14:35 PM

Its acting when he winds up under the basket from contact at the three point line.

2/12/2008 1:15:02 PM

IMStoned420 I understand the physics aspect that you're bringing up

My thing is Hansbrough is supposedly SO TOUGH and SUCH A TOUGH HARD WORKER but he's a little bitch playing defense at the perimeter

2/12/2008 1:27:52 PM

hahaha that just gave me an awesome idea for a shirt or sign or something

psycho T = Blue's Traveler

2/12/2008 1:33:34 PM

with frontman John Flopper

2/12/2008 1:36:04 PM

What gets me is that in the Clemson game Hansblow would lower his shoulder like a retarded bull in a china shop and the refs would make a blocking call. He could have easily have been called for at least 3 charges in that game that went against Clemson.

2/12/2008 1:41:37 PM

Quote :

"John Clougherty, who coordinates the ACC men's basketball officials, said calling a charge is the hardest determination an official has to make except with Duke"

Quote :

"Sophomore wing Gerald Henderson said Duke players started learning how to take charges their first day of practice."

This is why K would never make it at the next level, so much of his defensive success relies solely on the charge, but he knows how to play the ACC system, so ultimately, he's the real winner here.

Quote :

"Taking a charge, which the two-time All-America has done a career-best 26 times this season"

Is there any doubt that Hansblow commits two charges for everyone he takes, he just doesn't get called for it, this is a joke

2/12/2008 1:42:44 PM

All you need to read from that article: # of charges taken

Hansbrough:a career-best 26 times this season
Four Duke players: each have taken 9 or more
State's leader: Grant with 7

2/12/2008 1:43:26 PM

Quote :

"This is why K would never make it at the next level"

in fairness, i was at the Lakers game last night and Kobe wouldn't have gone to the line half as much if the refs didn't call him when he initiated contact and then yelled HAEEEEAAAYYYYY!!!

2/12/2008 1:43:59 PM

I honestly think taking charges is a legit way to play defense. Obviously, flopping comes into play and it certainly isn't the sexiest way to play defense, but it is useful. I think the majority of charges Hansbrough takes are legit even though it makes him look like a pussy. Duke is a team full of pussies and half of the calls they get are cause they practice that shit.

Hansbrough usually does beat the other team to the spot and when he doesn't I've seen him get called for a blocking foul. He travels a whole helluvalot but with the way the huge black dudes try and play defense against him, they'll never take the charge. They'd rather go up for the block and that's when they get called for fouls. He's too strong of a player to go heads-up against like that. You'll lose that battle 90% of the time as a defender. He's just good at initiating contact. That's the same reason he's gonna get pwned in the NBA. He'll be going up against Amare Stoudamire and Drew Gooden and Dwight Howard who can all match him for strength and are big enough to block the fuck out of his shot. His game is well-suited to ACC play because he's stronger than average. His charges are simply the result of beating guys to a spot on the floor and being a smart player. I honestly don't think he flops a whole lot.

2/12/2008 1:53:21 PM

i rarely see him get to a spot and get his feet set before a much quicker guard gets to the same spot...but he just wills the refs to call the charge

besides, i think guards should take charges...if you're a PF or C and a guard is driving to the basket, go for a fucking block you pussy

2/12/2008 1:56:08 PM

Nobody is arguing that HansBlow isn't smart and beat his defenders tot he spot when he's on defense. BUT when he's on offense, his head is frequently pointing tho the floor and barrels his way through defenders like a Tornado. No one can say with a straight face that he doesn't at the minimum commit just as many charges as he takes, it's a total joke to anyone who's not a UNC fan. I have no problem with the refs calling fouls on defenders when they idiotically challenge his shot, when he's the strongest low post player in the ACC, but most times they are forced to do so because they know that Hansblow can bulrush opponent's in the paint and they know they aren't getting the call.

2/12/2008 1:57:59 PM

Well that's when the coach needs to say to the guy guarding him to stay with the charge strategy and if the refs aren't calling it to inform them that it is indeed a charge. If they stick with it, Hansbrough should get into foul trouble. If you politely tell a referee that you think they made a bad call or bad no call they'll usually try to correct it or at the very least look a little closer for it. A lot of the problem is that when Hansbrough goes plowing through the paint the defenders are still moving. You'll never get charge calls like that.

2/12/2008 2:04:03 PM

2/12/2008 2:18:16 PM

Quote :

"oh oh, the Mel Gibsons on here wont like this one bit"

you don't have to point that out every fucking time you find something like that, it's a NC State board, people are gonna find something to complain about a rival

as you would probably find on every team message board

2/12/2008 3:50:18 PM

Quote :

"i rarely see him get to a spot and get his feet set before a much quicker guard gets to the same spot...but he just wills the refs to call the charge"

wins the thread

2/12/2008 3:56:10 PM

i tend to think of flopping as more in the mold of going flailing at the slightest bit of contact. i'm sure most of these guys could probably manage to stay upright if they got run into, but you pretty much have to go flying if you want the call. seems like there usually is sufficient contact, but requires a little acting to go with it

in hansbrough's case, does he flop occasionally? sure, but it's not like he just makes up contact like some other players, and i think you know who i mean

2/12/2008 4:32:27 PM

^ Gonzalez?

[Edited on February 12, 2008 at 4:59 PM. Reason : V I know. I was joking. Hence the ]

2/12/2008 4:36:39 PM

Paulus

2/12/2008 4:44:16 PM

hahah, GG goalielax

2/12/2008 4:48:09 PM

Quote :

"Twenty years as a head coach and I've never had anybody that other teams would talk about as a flopper."

....



never had anybody huh?

2/12/2008 5:41:35 PM

Why is nobody talking about Paulus?

2/12/2008 6:22:03 PM

^you're just as capable of anyone here

2/12/2008 7:12:59 PM

great flop by UVA against hansblow. I loled.

2/12/2008 8:35:36 PM

Quote :

"how come when Hansbrough has the ball in the paint and is taking it strong to the hole and he gets hammered by two forwards and a center, he's ok, he gets a shot off...but when he doesn't have the ball and he's 30' from the basket, a tiny PG can easily flatten him"

Momentum. F=MA

Quote :

"Eventually, the actors hurt themselves because as many teams as we have, [the officials] get to know who are the guys who are trying to fool them, and they discuss those things in the pregame -- the certain players out there that are taking flops, not contact," he said."

This kinda goes with how I envisioned the typical UNC pregame referee meeting:

"People are starting to get suspicious. We've got to get clever this game."

2/12/2008 8:42:17 PM

Momentum=Hansbrough's will= mv

2/13/2008 2:04:56 AM

Best Flop of the Year? A new award category maybe?

2/13/2008 4:52:41 AM