http://seecamp.com/

LWS 32 .32 DAO






look at the fit and finish on this lil bad boy:

12/20/2007 1:52:11 PM

glock 30 aint got shit on the glock 19 with a 17 clip

12/20/2007 1:53:18 PM

what's the kickback on that?

I got a wee 32 cal and it feels like nothin

12/20/2007 1:53:32 PM

WHY NO SIGHTS?

If shot placement is so important, why no sights?

An exhaustive NYPD report (NYPD SOP 9) revealed that in 70% of recorded police shootings (the majority under poor lighting conditions) officers did not use sights while 10% of the time officers didn’t remember whether sights were used. In the remaining 20% of the cases, officers recollected using some form of visual aid to line up the target ~ which could be the sights themselves or just the barrel.

The NYPD statistics showed no correlation between an officer’s range scores and his ability to hit a suspect at close range. The mean score for NYPD police officers (1990-2000) for all shootings is fifteen hits per 100 shots fired, which is almost the identical hit ratio seen among Miami officers ~ who in the years 1990-2001 fired some 1300 rounds at suspects while recording fewer than 200 hits. Almost unbelievably, some NYPD figures show 62% of shots fired at a distance of less than six feet were complete misses.

The 1988 US Army training manual for pistols and revolvers [FM 23-35], in apparent recognition of the disconnect between sighted shooting at the range and the ability to score hits in short distance combat, wisely calls for point shoot training at distances of less than fifteen feet. The ability to shoot targets at 25 yards using sights sadly seems to provide little or no advantage in close combat. Nor are there recorded instances where an officer required a reload in close combat. When reloads do occur, there is no immediate threat to the officer’s safety and the perpetrator has usually barricaded himself in a defensive posture. A study by Etten and Petee (l995) showed that neither large capacity magazines nor the ability to reload quickly was a factor in shootings.

Speed reloads at short ranges just don’t happen, and practicing paper punching at long ranges using sights appears to prepare one for short range conflict to the same degree it prepares one for using flying insect spray. (Hitting an annoying yellow jacket buzzing a picnic table without spraying the guests or the food might be better practice for combat than long range paper punching. So might a plain old-fashioned water pistol fight.)

In the FWIW department, of 250 NYPD police officers killed in the line of duty in the years 1854-1979 there was only one instance where it could be determined an officer was slain at a distance of over 25 feet ~ by a sniper 125 feet away. Of the 250 fatal encounters, 92% took place under fifteen feet and 96.4% under 25 feet. In the remaining eight instances the distance was unknown.

But how do I qualify at 75 feet without sights?

If you hold the LWS pistol at a 45-degree angle semi-gangsta style there is a groove formed that can be used as a sighting tool

The 25 yard shooting proficiency test for carry qualification required by many issuing authorities is absurd. It's a request to perform a feat that would land you in jail if you ever tried to perform it "in self-defense."

It's like passing a driver's test that requires you to slalom between traffic cones at 120 miles an hour. Seventy-five feet shooting proficiency is not too much to ask from a police officer who may be firing at a barricaded target, as the ability to drive at high speeds is not too much to ask from a Trooper pursuing a fleeing vehicle, but it’s ridiculous to ask it of civilians.

Shoot an "assailant" at 75 feet. Then try to find a lawyer good enough to keep you out of prison.

On the one hand the law demands that you use deadly force only when you are in danger of serious bodily injury or your life is threatened. On the other hand they demand that you have the ability to commit a long-range homicide with a firearm before they give you that right.

Using sights at shorter ranges invites problems

In order to use sights a shooter has to put at least one hand in front of their face. This obstructs the view behind the hand they have placed there. When the focus is on the upper torso of the threatening individual, the lower portion of that person is partially or completely hidden from view by this deliberately chosen visual obstruction. The closer the target, the greater is the degree of visual impairment that may cause the shooter to fail to recognize potentially important information below the sight picture.

Statistics show pistol sights generally go out the window once shooting starts; however, this does not mean sights are not used prior to the commencement of hostilities. We can see on reality TV police programs numerous instances where officers in a Weaver stance point guns at suspects who are in absurdly close proximity to them.

With both hands in front of one’s face, one is less able to recognize whether a possible threat is reaching for a gun or a wallet when the landscape below the target area is blocked from view. One might perceive movement but one cannot see what is being moved. There is no doubt in my mind accidental shootings of unarmed individuals have in many instances been caused by sight shoot training, in which a trained focus on a clear sight picture leaves one necessarily with an incomplete view of the important overall scenario.

The potential hazard of losing perspective of the complete picture of the environment is well illustrated by American Matthew Emmons. He lost what appeared to be a safe Gold medal in the 2004 Olympics by shooting, with great accuracy, holes in his neighbor’s target. Overmuch concentration on the bull’s eye, which can be achieved with sights that exclude distracting but possibly important stimuli, may assist in hitting what one is aiming to hit but it can do so at the great cost of making an improper choice of target.

Suggestions for achieving proficiency

Other than range practice of point shooting at realistic combat distances (under fifteen feet), here’s what you can do to achieve proficiency, making sure you are using an unloaded pistol:

1. Dry fire the pistol to get acquainted with the trigger pull. Dry firing will not hurt the LWS. Slow deliberate dry firing will help you get acquainted with the pull, but make it a snappy pull once you get the feel because you’ll never use the slow pull to defend yourself. (Please keep in mind ‘unloaded’ guns are probably responsible for most accidental shootings, so never under any circumstances point the pistol at any living thing or something you are not prepared to suffer the consequences of shooting.)
2. Repeatedly pick up the pistol and point it towards a target without looking at the gun. Holding the gun in that position, bring your eyes down to examine whether the position of the gun lines up with the target. As much as you can, keep your arm straight without allowing it to interfere with your vision. A straight arm makes for more accurate pointing. (The pocket slipper laser aimer is also a good training tool for getting you on target. If a threat arises you should not be thinking of the pistol, which should become an extension of yourself, but on the threat that faces you.)

Most of those who buy pistols for self defense shoot infrequently. At the distance at which handguns are likely to be used for self-defense this doesn’t bother me as much as it perhaps should. Who doesn’t have a shotgun or some other weapon stashed away, seldom or never used, that they wouldn’t hesitate to bring center stage if there was a forced house entry. People who buy pepper spray and Mace don’t normally feel the need to practice a thousand squirts to feel comfortable they can hit an assailant. And, as mentioned, the studies seem to show little practical benefit from long distance range practice. I’d rather go up against a target shooter than an individual who plays occasional paintball.

12/20/2007 1:54:57 PM

Shooting "gangsta" style is fucking ridiculous, i dont care if it has a groove or not that shit is off target

12/20/2007 1:58:11 PM

There will be no gangster style shooting here Mr.

12/20/2007 2:01:18 PM

you pull strap on me nigga you better kill me

12/20/2007 2:02:39 PM

http://www.pointshooting.com/nosights.htm

Ok, ok, I can use google too.

12/20/2007 2:03:58 PM

I was told about this Seecamp .32 many years ago. It is made by a guy in Connecticut by hand. Each pistol is totally hand built.

I was sold back then, but the cost ($500) threw me off. Now that the mighty is a lil older, the $500 is not that much of an issue.

12/20/2007 2:09:40 PM

I am a big man yes I am
and I've got a big gun.

12/20/2007 2:10:15 PM

Quote :

"I am a big man yes I am and I've got a big gun."

no


I walked in during lunch intent on buying a pocket-sized 9mm or 380.

Then the Seecamp was spotted. I really wanted a "Pocket gun" but wanted quality craftsmanship.


I put it up next to a NICE Kahr 9mm and a Baretta .25.

The Kahr was too big for the pocket and the Baretta .25 doesn't pack enough power.

12/20/2007 2:10:57 PM

haha he's got a small gun

12/20/2007 2:11:09 PM

interesting read

12/20/2007 2:14:16 PM

Alex, what is Nine Inch Nails?

12/20/2007 2:14:44 PM

Hello, Santa? I want one of these, please.

12/20/2007 2:14:52 PM

The Seecamp is used by many Intelligence and Federal agency employees.

12/20/2007 2:15:53 PM

Quote :

"what's the kickback on that? I got a wee 32 cal and it feels like nothin"

I'm sure it's pretty snappy ngr.

12/20/2007 2:21:34 PM

That's real cute, son. This here's what I carry.......

12/20/2007 2:48:32 PM

Desert eagle is a show gun, not practical at all

Shooting rounds out of a 44 makes my fucking shoulder hurt, but it would take down a crook. A DE would go through the wall and shoot the bitch in your bed.

12/20/2007 2:51:01 PM

Gun? That's not a gun. Now this, this is a gun.

12/20/2007 2:51:59 PM

^^yeah, that thing is a lil big and impractical

when i get my pistol, i think i'm gonna be lookin in the 9mm semi auto market (although, i have seen some s&w revolvers that i like alot, especially their hammerless revolvers)

12/20/2007 2:52:39 PM

half of the people with guns are not going to shoot shit. and not only that why do you even need at gun, are you scared of something?

12/20/2007 2:53:35 PM

<---------wants Springfield XD



its our natural civil right to own a gun. its in a man's blood to want to shoot a gun. if you dont like guns you are a homo

[Edited on December 20, 2007 at 3:05 PM. Reason : yes]

12/20/2007 3:04:08 PM

^^ The question isn't why you need a gun.

The question is why would you not want a gun?

12/20/2007 3:06:39 PM

because i don't need it. if i hunted orwas a police i would want one. but whats the point of buying a gun just to say you have one and no t shoot it for a real cause or just go ahead and shoot the first person that made you mad?

[Edited on December 20, 2007 at 3:09 PM. Reason : sdfgh]

12/20/2007 3:08:56 PM

I used to think guns were crazy to own and dangerous and it was fucked up to want to own one because of how much gun crime is in america.


Then my friend took me down to the range, paid for my range fees, brought his own guns, and paid for all the ammo.


My god, its like the first time you get a chick naked. Opened up a whole new world of fun for me.

I dont plan on ever using it in self defense really, I just like going down to the range and lettin some go.

12/20/2007 3:09:18 PM

How about because guns are cool.

and shooting them is fun.

12/20/2007 3:09:57 PM

Talage,

you can load 6+1 in the hole and put it in your front or back pocket. Its as small as the credit cards and money I carry in my front pocket. You could practically shove this thing up your ass.

12/20/2007 3:09:57 PM

ok then there you go, thats reasonable. but just wanting one for no good reason is not good in my opinion.

the question remains, are you actually man enough to shoot somebody, and are you competent enough with the law to know when deadly force can be used?

[Edited on December 20, 2007 at 3:10 PM. Reason : sdfgh]

12/20/2007 3:10:11 PM

^^^^^ never been mugged have you?


^^ Haha. I was actually kidding about the Desert Eagle, I thought it fit well with the Beverly Hill Billies quote. When I finally do get a concealed carry gun it'll probably be something considerably smaller, but not really pocket sized. I'd be too scared of the safety coming undone and shooting my nuts off to go shoving a gun in my pocket.


[Edited on December 20, 2007 at 3:15 PM. Reason : .]

12/20/2007 3:10:33 PM

you'll shoot your eye out

12/20/2007 3:10:51 PM

^^^^pics or it never happened

[Edited on December 20, 2007 at 3:11 PM. Reason : ^]

12/20/2007 3:11:15 PM

Quote :

"the question remains, are you actually man enough to shoot somebody, and are you competent enough with the law to know when deadly force can be used?"

12/20/2007 3:11:19 PM

Quote :

"^^^^^ never been mugged have you?"

nope and you can't predict it and most likely you having a gun will not help you in that situation.

12/20/2007 3:12:07 PM

in florida the person only has to be on your property, not even in your house and you can use force.

ask Biofreak70, we almost had to down in J-ville 3 weeks ago

[Edited on December 20, 2007 at 3:13 PM. Reason : add]

12/20/2007 3:12:30 PM

well good for you that you know! but don't they have to be threatening a life however?

12/20/2007 3:13:13 PM

prove it

12/20/2007 3:16:45 PM

i am asking not telling ...

12/20/2007 3:17:15 PM

I've been jumped by 4 guys at once before and hit in the face with brass knuckles. Even if for some fucking odd reason I had a gun on me (I dont have a conceal permit) I would not pull it out.

I'm not trying to kill somebody. Literally the only thing that can make me violent is protecting family and close friends, other than that....


But damn if shooting at targets isnt a boat load of fun.

And actually, for people like me, renting the gun at the range is just as good. I like renting the machine guns and poppin those, but i'd never own one.

12/20/2007 3:18:04 PM

I don't think any state's laws allow you to use deadly force to protect your property. However, if someone is facing you within a certain distance (like 10 feet or something) with a deadly weapon (knife, gun, etc) then you can use deadly force.

12/20/2007 3:18:48 PM

^^ i'd think twice about drawing down on 4 guys too depending on how close they are

but i've been mugged by one guy before and if I had a gun then I would have pulled it out as soon as he told me to give him my wallet.

[Edited on December 20, 2007 at 3:21 PM. Reason : oops at the double post ]

12/20/2007 3:20:57 PM

i carry one around because it makes me feel like a man

12/20/2007 3:21:59 PM

Quote :

"i am asking not telling ..."

haha, i'm just saying...yes they have to be threatening a life but if you shoot em it would be hard to prove.

i could just say "big colored man was yelling and threatening to rape my wife and eat my daughter"

12/20/2007 3:25:53 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydcGYLR_2Dc&NR=1

Seecamp .32 rapid fire range 14 second vid

12/20/2007 3:50:47 PM

Quote :

"the question remains, are you actually man enough to shoot somebody, and are you competent enough with the law to know when deadly force can be used?"

Yes, and yes. As most know, in order to get your conceal carry permit, you must learn and understand when deadly force may and may not be used. And if someone was threatening me or someone else with deadly force/sexual assault, I would have no problem using deadly force on them.

12/20/2007 4:21:43 PM

Quote :

"glock 30 aint got shit on the glock 19 with a 17 clip"

G30 was my first handgun that I ever bought



10 rounds of .45 > 17 rounds of 9mm


not to mention, you can get 13 round mags for it

all I gotta say about owning a handgun is

I never owned a "non-sporting" firearm until my friend was stabbed 7 times completely through his body, his throat slit, and his eyelids cut off, another friend stabbed 3 times through his body, while another thug held a gun to my head

you see shit like that go down and you change your mind really quickly



[Edited on December 20, 2007 at 4:29 PM. Reason : ..]

12/20/2007 4:24:29 PM

Quote :

"That's real cute, son. This here's what I carry....... "

if you're gonna go big???

why not really go big?



.500 s&w mag
or .600 nitro express..

12/20/2007 4:28:39 PM

Quote :

"glock 30 aint got shit on the glock 19 with a 17 clip"

An astute observation.

Quote :

"I never owned a "non-sporting" firearm until my friend was stabbed 7 times completely through his body, his throat slit, and his eyelids cut off, another friend stabbed 3 times through his body, while another thug held a gun to my head"

Holy shit!

Where do you live?

[Edited on December 20, 2007 at 4:34 PM. Reason : .]

12/20/2007 4:32:19 PM

that happened at myrtle beach

[Edited on December 20, 2007 at 4:40 PM. Reason : gave me a new outlook on self defense]

12/20/2007 4:40:25 PM

I encourage you to purchase one of these lil fuckers


[Edited on December 20, 2007 at 4:45 PM. Reason : .]

12/20/2007 4:44:50 PM