Here's a great gem I heard the other day on *gasp*NPR*gasp*

http://www.kfwb.com/LAPD-Slammed-for-Plans-to--Map--Muslims/1194715

Quote :

"ACLU: 'Religious Profiling Unlawful, Deeply Offensive' LOS ANGELES - The Police Department wants to map the city's Muslim communities in order to pinpoint their potential for housing terrorist cells but the idea has drawn criticism from activists who call it racial profiling. The LAPD's counterterrorism bureau plans to identify the location of Muslim enclaves in Los Angeles in order to determine which might be likely to become isolated and susceptible to ``violent, ideologically-based extremism,'' Deputy Chief Michael P. Downing said Thursday. [emphasis added] ``We want to know where the Pakistanis, Iranians and Chechens are so we can reach out to those communities,'' said Downing, who heads the counterterrorism bureau. Downing said the plan is still in its early stages but the LAPD wants to work with a Muslim partner and intends to have the data assembled by the University of Southern California's Center for Risk and Economic Analysis. Downing testified about the plan before a U.S. Senate committee on Oct. 30. In his testimony, Downing said his bureau wanted to ``take a deeper look at the history, demographics, language, culture, ethnic breakdown, socioeconomic status and social interactions'' of the city's Muslim communities. There are an estimated 500,000 Muslims in Los Angeles, Orange and Riverside counties. On Thursday, several Muslim groups and the American Civil Liberties Union of Southern California sent Downing a letter expressing ``grave concerns'' about the program. ``Singling out individuals for investigation, surveillance, and data-gathering based on their religion constitutes religious profiling that is just as unlawful, ill-advised and deeply offensive as racial profiling,'' said the letter. It was signed by representatives of the ACLU of Southern California; Muslim Advocates, a national association of Muslim lawyers; the Islamic Shura Council of Southern California and the Council on American-Islamic Relations. The plan ``basically turns the LAPD officers into religious political analysts, while their role is to fight crime and enforce the laws,'' said Hussam Ayloush, head of the Los Angeles chapter of the Council on American-Islamic Relations, who signed the letter. However, another group, the Muslim Public Affairs Council, is considering working with the LAPD on the project. ``We will work with the LAPD and give them input, while at the same time making sure that people's civil liberties are protected,'' said Salam al-Marayati, the council's executive director. (AP)"

Pure. Fucking. Genius. Let's go out and track people who are "susceptible to messages" that argue for committing crimes. Riiiiiiiiight.

I got to hear the interview with one of the higher-ups on this plan and my jaw dropped during the interview. The guy basically said something to the effect of "this has nothing to do with religion..." And he said this about five seconds after he said he wanted to know where every MUSLIM in the city was.

Hoooooooraaaaay civil liberties going up in smoke!

11/12/2007 7:40:39 PM

I thought you would be all for this.

11/12/2007 8:03:14 PM

Religious profiling: the NEW racial profiling.

11/12/2007 8:06:31 PM

come on dude. seriously who cares about personal privacy, civil liberties, human rights; as long as George W and friends are keeping me safe from the turrrrrists and keeps iran from targeting nukes at Grandma's doorstep then i can go to sleep sound every night [/sarcasm]

11/12/2007 9:48:34 PM

yeah, i heard that interview on All Things Considered, i think. I forgot who was interviewing, but he gave the deputy several "outs" after he kept saying things that were pretty egregious, but the Deputy just kept right on going, like his plan made perfect sense and he had no inkling of an idea that his plan was likely pissing off millions of people at that moment.

11/12/2007 10:36:31 PM

Quote :

"We want to know where the Pakistanis, Iranians and Chechens are so we can reach out to those communities,'' said [Deputy Chief] Downing, who heads the counterterrorism bureau."

I LOL'ed





in a sort of way

11/12/2007 11:41:32 PM

"reach out" .......




*ahem!*

11/12/2007 11:46:42 PM

USA! USA! USA!

11/13/2007 12:27:22 AM

While I hate this plan and would not support it based on the invasion of privacy it's also no more ridiculous then the head in the sand idealism of some who seem to wish it were true that ethnicity and religion are in no way related to terrorism or are at the very least a good starting point for gathering information. It's not coincidence that it's Muslims who are currently the most real terrorist threat, nor is it necessarily foolish to assume that a violent crime committed in Compton was probably committed by a black person, nor is it wrong to assume that a new serial killer is probably a white guy.

Using information gleaned from the past is a good idea, profiling is actually a good idea because it saves a lot of unnecessary legwork. Profiling as justification for harassment is not a good idea, you shouldn't pull a guy over just for being black, but if you know based on the facts that more shit goes down in a certain area and is primarily caused by a certain group it makes sense to focus your attention in that area of that certain group. If you know that statistically speaking robberies in area X are committed by Hispanics in 70% of all prior cases then it's probably a good idea to begin your investigation with known Hispanic robbers. The principle here is the same, but I hate the invasion of privacy.

11/13/2007 3:06:17 AM

Quote :

"I thought you would be all for this."

i know, I like to surprise people every now and then

^ dude, this is totally different than "knowing that terrorists are primarily Muslims." This is tantamount to assuming that ALL Muslims are guilty of terrorism, and therefor we should invade their privacy and track them like they were some kind of scourge.

11/13/2007 6:48:44 AM

I heard on NPR about a short-lived FBI plan to locate terrorist cells by tracking sales of falafel.

11/13/2007 1:06:10 PM

I love it.

11/13/2007 1:39:09 PM

^^ given events of the past 5 -6 years, that's actually believable.

11/14/2007 2:22:46 PM

Quote :

"While I hate this plan and would not support it based on the invasion of privacy"

11/14/2007 9:22:20 PM

Quote :

"come on dude. seriously who cares about personal privacy, civil liberties, human rights; as long as George W and friends are keeping me safe from the turrrrrists and keeps iran from targeting nukes at Grandma's doorstep then i can go to sleep sound every night [/sarcasm]"

11/15/2007 7:11:37 AM

Our country's tradition of civil liberty kinda puts us in a tough place. We are almost required to wait until a crime is committed before we can act.

I just can't help the feeling that the the terrorists are using our culture's freedom and fear of offending each other against us.

11/15/2007 11:07:45 AM

Well, now, I'm curious. Clearly we're allowed to profile based on some things. Nobody complains when the government keeps a special eye on white supremacist groups, presumably including some which are not known to be guilty of a crime. Where is the line?

I think needing to know where "every Muslim in the city is" falls outside of the acceptable range, but developing a database of the communities and subsets of that group might not. There would be a political overlay that would have to go with it -- terrorists aren't just really, really Muslim, they also have this other aspect to them. I suppose if it were really necessary the LAPD could do pretty much the exact same thing, except profile the population based on prevailing political views.

11/15/2007 12:54:08 PM

according to NPR today, the plan has been scrapped

11/15/2007 6:57:02 PM

"The NYPD has admitted that its tactics never generated a lead about possible terrorist activity”

http://time.com/64267/new-york-police-muslim-spy-program-ends/

LOOOLLLL

4/15/2014 10:33:31 PM

I agree with 0EPII1: If I didn't know better I'd think the OP was a "dirty America-hating librul," in Rethug-speak.

4/16/2014 6:56:48 AM

I just spit my drink out when I read "rethug". Fuck me that is clever.

4/16/2014 10:16:38 AM

^ first time hearing/seeing it? it is very popular in this section. short for "rethugnican", i think.

4/16/2014 1:51:50 PM

i'm pretty sure lewisje is the only one who uses it. and he uses it often.

[Edited on April 16, 2014 at 1:55 PM. Reason : ]

4/16/2014 1:55:17 PM

i'm pretty sure that lewisje is... different

4/16/2014 1:58:36 PM

^^^ clearly Mr. Joshua was being sarcastic...

4/16/2014 4:00:32 PM