In case you haven't heard, NY Gov Eliot Spitzer made a proposal to grant driver's licenses to illegal immigrants. In last week's debate Hillary Clinton said it was a good idea.

I think it's the most ridiculous thing ever. Unless it's a trap to catch all the illegal immigrants, I can't think of one good reason for this.

11/8/2007 3:23:39 PM

The only good thing that I can see coming out of it is that they'd be forced to get insurance which would be nice. It also keeps those who may be illegal but are actually applying for legal status in check.


I do think it's not really a good idea though.

11/8/2007 3:25:03 PM

Given:

1) we can't deport them all
2) we want licensed drivers

What other options are there?

11/8/2007 3:28:13 PM

A clear path to legality?

Make it a step to legalization?

Just straight up offering licenses to them doesn't seem productive really.

11/8/2007 3:31:05 PM

3) If they're here to work make it easy for them to become citizens so they fall under the same rules and processes as everyone else. Then when they fuck up, deport them/toss them in jail like you would anyone else.

^ yea. Just giving them liscences seems like it would generate more of a legal clusterfuck.

Its like you're making them an official illegal alien.

[Edited on November 8, 2007 at 3:34 PM. Reason : .]

11/8/2007 3:32:48 PM

It wouldn't force anyone to get insurance...I mean think about how many legally licensed drivers don't have it now...

Look at all the crappy awful drivers now that have licenses... I wouldn't state this as a rule, but it seems to me that illegal aliens would at least try make an effort to drive as well and better than legals as they possibly could because they'd reduce the chance of getting caught for something stupid and being deported.

Think about what your license let's you do...when you board a plane, what do you use?

11/8/2007 3:34:30 PM

^^ I agree completely.

I assumed the drivers license thing would be part of an overall program to assimilate them into the system.

^Think about what a real means of identification doesn't let you do.

[Edited on November 8, 2007 at 3:35 PM. Reason : .]

11/8/2007 3:34:41 PM

Quote :

"If they're here to work make it easy for them to become citizens"

They don't need to be citizens, only legal residents.

The big issue was that, apparently, the state of New York recently went to great lengths to ensure the security of their drivers licenses as proper identification of legal residents, and now Gov Spitzer has essentially thrown that out the window.

The solution isn't to give a legal privileged to illegal residents . . . the solution is to create a system where illegal residents are encouraged to attain legal status. I'm not sure this is how to do it.

11/8/2007 3:42:57 PM

It seems as easy a way as any.

We can't use social security cards, and we certainly can't use birth certificates, what else is there?

[Edited on November 8, 2007 at 3:50 PM. Reason : .]

11/8/2007 3:43:59 PM

The Politics of Parsing

http://johnedwards.com/watch/politics-of-parsing/

11/8/2007 4:02:35 PM

Quote :

"I mean think about how many legally licensed drivers don't have it now... "

you have to have insurance in this state in order to have a legal license

11/9/2007 2:25:17 PM

I thought that illegals could get them for years just by going to VA and a few other states, showing a birth certificate, and giving an address.

After that they have a valid government ID and can renew it anywhere nationwide.

11/9/2007 3:02:44 PM

It's safer for everyone on the road for people driving to have licenses. For various reasons.

I can't see why anyone would be opposed to this, other than for emotional reasons. It doesn't cause any new problems, and it helps to fix some existing problems. It's a win all around.

11/9/2007 3:05:28 PM

Same concept as:

Hand all teenagers condoms and birth control pills, that'll keep them from having sex and making babies.

Yes, it may help teenagers from becoming pregnant, but it's not going go solve the issue at hand; teenagers are too irresponsible to have sex. In the same light, it may help control illegals and give us an upper hand on their identity, but it's not going to fix the fact that they are still coming into the country illegally.

Somehow this country has adopted this "reactive" mindset. Instead of being proactive and taking action against certain topics, we give in to the pressure and take a defensive stance. Instead of killing the problem at the source, we wait to fix it on when it's already on our doorstep.

11/9/2007 3:27:40 PM

^ Welcome to America.

First Read put together everything Hillary Clinton has said on this topic.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/11/07/453457.aspx

Quote :

"A look at nearly everything she has said on the subject since October 16 -- which adds up to a lot more than 30 seconds -- shows that she actually has been pretty consistent in her answer: Generally, she supports what governors like New York’s Eliot Spitzer are trying to do. But she also has been pretty consistent in giving non-answers on whether she, personally, supports giving drivers’ licenses to illegal immigrants. Below is what Clinton has said on the matter… October 16 editorial meeting with the Nashua Telegraph "I hate to see any state being pushed into trying to take this into their own hands because the federal government has failed. So I know exactly what Governor Spitzer is trying to do and it makes a lot of sense, because he's trying to get people out of the shadows, come forward and we'll give you this license – but without a federal policy in effect people will come forward and they could get picked up by ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement) tomorrow. This can't work state by state – it has to be looked at comprehensively." October 30 MSNBC debate RUSSERT: Senator Clinton, Governor of New York Eliot Spitzer has proposed giving driver's licenses to illegal immigrants. [You] told the Nashua, New Hampshire, Editorial Board it makes a lot of sense. Why does it make a lot of sense to give an illegal immigrant a driver's license? CLINTON: Well, what Governor Spitzer is trying to do is fill the vacuum left by the failure of this administration to bring about comprehensive immigration reform. We know in New York we have several million at any one time who are in New York illegally. They are undocumented workers. They are driving on our roads. The possibility of them having an accident that harms themselves or others is just a matter of the odds. It's probability. So what Governor Spitzer is trying to do is to fill the vacuum. I believe we need to get back to comprehensive immigration reform because no state, no matter how well intentioned, can fill this gap. There needs to be federal action on immigration reform. Then moments later at the debate… DODD: This is a privilege. And, look, I'm as forthright and progressive on immigration policy as anyone here. But we're dealing with a serious problem here, we need to have people come forward. The idea that we're going to extend this privilege here of a driver's license I think is troublesome, and I think the American people are reacting to it… CLINTON: Well, I just want to add, I did not say that it should be done, but I certainly recognize why Governor Spitzer is trying to do... And then… RUSSERT: Senator Clinton, I just want to make sure of what I heard. Do you, the New York senator, Hillary Clinton, support the New York governor's plan to give illegal immigrants a driver's license? You told the New Hampshire paper that it made a lot of sense. Do you support his plan? CLINTON: You know, Tim, this is where everybody plays "gotcha." It makes a lot of sense. What is the governor supposed to do? He is dealing with a serious problems. We have failed. And George Bush has failed. Do I think this is the best thing for any governor to do? No. But do I understand the sense of real desperation, trying to get a handle on this? Remember, in New York, we want to know who's in New York. We want people to come out of the shadows. October 31 statement from the campaign “Senator Clinton supports governors like Governor Spitzer who believe they need such a measure to deal with the crisis caused by this administration’s failure to pass comprehensive immigration reform.” The New York Times reported on that statement: “Mrs. Clinton’s aides said her statement Wednesday expressing general support for Mr. Spitzer’s plan was intended to signal that she broadly supported his goal of granting driver’s licenses to illegal immigrants. But they said she had not studied — and was not endorsing — any specific plan.” On November 2, per the Associated Press: Clinton said she generally supported efforts by New York Gov. Eliot Spitzer and others who have tried to address public safety questions in absence of federal immigration reform. Last weekend, Spitzer announced a plan backed by the U.S. Department of Homeland Security to give licenses with limited privileges to some undocumented workers. "I don't know all the details," Clinton said, adding that the issue was going to be hard to resolve. "We've had, now, seven years of an administration that saw things in black and white, yes and no, up and down. I think it's time we actually had a conversation with the American people," she said. Clinton campaigning in Clinton, IA on November 4 "I wasn't as clear as I should have been the other night. I have had a number of occasions where I have spoken to it and I believe clarified it, but I'd be happy to do it again. I believe in comprehensive immigration reform and I have been in favor of that for years. I have signed onto bills. I have voted for provisions and I think it is the only answer for our country." "Unfortunately, because the Bush administration has failed and as has the Congress, the federal government as a whole to bring about comprehensive immigration reform, governors are left holding the bag. They're the ones having to deal with the security issues, the safety of their roads and so much else. Therefore, I broadly support what governors like Eliot Spitzer are trying to do. I don't pretend to know the details. That's up to the governor and the legislature to try to work out. But I think that it's understandable that states are trying to fill a vacuum left by the failures of the federal government." Then in an interview yesterday CNN’s Candy Crowley… CROWLEY: If I wrote a story that said: "Absent a broad illegal immigration bill, Hillary Clinton agrees about giving driver's licenses to illegal immigrants," is that correct? CLINTON: No. What I have said is that I support what governors are trying to do. And governors are on the front lines because of the failures to get comprehensive immigration reform. There are already eight states that issue driver's licenses without any verification of citizenship. That is a decision that the governors and legislatures and the people of those states have made. I understand… CROWLEY: But you see why people think… CLINTON: Well, but you know, Candy… CROWLEY: … that you are not answering the question. CLINTON: Well, but you know, Candy, well, but I think that if you go back and look at the complexity of this issue, I don’t think a lot of these hard questions lend themselves to raising your hand. And I know that that’s easier in a 30 second context to try to do. I think the fact that governors are being forced into this position is really unfortunate. They should not be making immigration policy. The federal government should be making immigration policy and that’s what I’m going to try to do as president again and I do not believe that in the context of federal immigration reform that that would be an issue that governors would have to contend with. CROWLEY: So it’s – I know it’s not a yes or no question to you but you’ve had some time here and the problem is that people can’t quite get a hold of is for a governor at this time, do you think it’s a good idea for them to offer drivers’ licenses to illegal immigrants? CLINTON: It depends upon what state they’re in. It depends upon what they think the risks are. You know. A governor of New York that has a lot of immigrants, many of whom we know are not their legally, has to worry about security. A governor of another state where that’s not a problem doesn’t. This issue has been so politicized and I understand that because you can score points. You can score all kinds of political demagogic points but the fact is if we don’t have comprehensive immigration reform, which for me includes toughening the borders, much harder sanctions on employers, doing more to help local communities that are stuck with the bill on all kinds of services. And bringing immigrants out of the shadows. And if they ever committed a crime where they came from or here, immediately deport them. But for the others, have a tough path to earned legalization. Pay back taxes. Pay fines. Learn English. Wait in line. And once you got somebody on the record registered, deported the criminals, instead they had to keep on the right side of the law, keep making a living and do all of these other things I’ve outlined, that would be the appropriate time to give them some kind of license. But I understand – I’m not going to be second guessing governors who have to do the hard work of figuring out what’s best for their state."

[Edited on November 9, 2007 at 3:41 PM. Reason : .]

11/9/2007 3:32:50 PM

^ did not read

11/12/2007 10:11:26 AM

Quote :

"Hand all teenagers condoms and birth control pills, that'll keep them from having sex and making babies. Yes, it may help teenagers from becoming pregnant, but it's not going go solve the issue at hand; teenagers are too irresponsible to have sex."

I guess you better tell the teenagers to stop having sex. That is a lot of hormones to tell teenagers to ignore. teenagers have sex. Nothing we will ever be able to accomplish will change that, especially living with your head in the sand.

I'd rather teenagers be instructed on how to use effective measures against birth and disease transmission than not, especially since they will have sex either way.

11/12/2007 10:33:52 AM

Quote :

"I’m not going to be second guessing governors who have to do the hard work of figuring out what’s best for their state.""

That's exactly what a power-hungry statist like Hillary would do everyday if she got elected.

11/12/2007 10:35:02 AM

What about State's Rights?

11/12/2007 10:36:19 AM

Quote :

"it may help control illegals and give us an upper hand on their identity, but it's not going to fix the fact that they are still coming into the country illegally."

I don't think the purpose behind giving illegals drivers licenses is to prevent them from coming into the country illegally.

11/12/2007 11:59:59 AM

Could I say I was an illegal to get a fake one?

11/12/2007 12:01:43 PM

doesn't NC grant licenses to illegals already? I could have sworn you didn't have to have resident status to get a license here.

11/12/2007 12:13:52 PM

i think you have to have a SSN card or a birth certificate to get your DL in NC

11/12/2007 1:06:33 PM

Spitzer Dropping His License Plan

Quote :

"ALBANY, Nov. 13 — Gov. Eliot Spitzer is abandoning his plan to issue driver's licenses to illegal immigrants, saying that opposition is just too overwhelming to move forward with such a policy."

Quote :

"Mr. Spitzer's plan touched off a national debate over whether issuing licenses to illegal immigrants would make the state more secure or improperly extend a privilege to them that should be reserved for legal residents. Opposition to the proposal sent his poll numbers plunging and stalled his broader agenda."

Quote :

"Mr. Spitzer's decision to abandon his plan comes as a poll released Tuesday by Siena College found that seven in 10 New York voters who had heard about it — and more than 80 percent of the 625 registered voters polled had — opposed it. It also found that for the first time, more people viewed the governor unfavorably than favorably."

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/14/nyregion/14spitzer.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

I wonder if Hillary Clinton has decided what she thinks about this issue yet?

11/14/2007 1:20:25 AM

It's pretty clear Hillary would be in support of people driving here to actually have licenses.

it's a shame she can't just come out and say it, instead beating around the bush (not pun intended).

[Edited on November 14, 2007 at 2:08 AM. Reason : ]

11/14/2007 2:08:19 AM

well, if Hillary were to say that illegals should be able to get licenses, that would require her to do something crazy, like actually take a position on an issue

11/14/2007 7:19:44 AM

^ Welcome to politics.

11/14/2007 8:50:02 AM

Quote :

"Unless it's a trap to catch all the illegal immigrants, I can't think of one good reason for this"

haha, agreed

Quote :

"The solution isn't to give a legal privileged to illegal residents . . . the solution is to create a system where illegal residents are encouraged to attain legal status."

agreed

think about it:
Deportation only costs slightly less that prison (maybe more), but of course, illegals often simply return after being deported. Just like a cop would record an illegally parked car's license plate number upon giving the driver a warning and forcing the car out, only to give a more strict punishment upon any repeat offense, cops should record an illegal alien's fingerprints upon deporting them, only to put them in prison should they get caught again. Tough but fair.

Quote :

"I can't see why anyone would be opposed to this, other than for emotional reasons. It doesn't cause any new problems, and it helps to fix some existing problems. It's a win all around."

People are opposed to this for logical, ethical, and common sense reasons regardless of how practical it may seem. Aside from a perverted sense of pragmatism, I can't see why anyone would be in support of this, other than for emotional reasons. It would cause enormous problems, and fix nothing. It is a losing idea and one of the stupidest ever.

support for this issue is political suicide (except maybe in the socialist people's republic of california)

11/14/2007 9:28:04 AM

I say let them get a drivers license. At least we can this way encourage them to learn how to drive and be safe drivers. Thus decreasing the negative impact they have on society b.c

a. the illegals will still come over regardless
b. if they really need to go earn those pesos or gets to work they will end up driving anyway.

in my mind allowing them to get a D.L is kinda like offering free condoms in high school health service offices. as a society we do not approve of 14 yr olds having sex but their is only so much we can do to discourage it; we might as offer appropriate measures i.e condoms to help minimize the negative effects that promiscuous 14 yr olds have on society.

11/14/2007 10:16:19 AM

Quote :

"I say let them get a drivers license. At least we can this way encourage them to learn how to drive and be safe drivers. "

i'm curious how these two topics are related.
Does possessing a driver's license all of a sudden make you more responsible and a better driver?

11/14/2007 10:19:32 AM

There's no way this will pass, everyone's making a big stink of it up here in NY.

11/14/2007 1:50:08 PM

illegal immigrants do the work that no one else wants to do.

11/14/2007 2:09:49 PM

Quote :

"Does possessing a driver's license all of a sudden make you more responsible and a better driver"

If they know they can get a licenses to drive; they may take some time to actually fully learn the laws of the road in the US and to drive well enough to pass the DOT tests. Even though in my opinion we should require more driving competency to get a drivers license; you still got to have some basic understanding.

currently their is no incentive for illegal immigrants to become good drivers when some will end up driving anyway.

Immigration really does not bother me except for the annoyance of dealing w/ the lady at Bojangles that does not speak English very well. They are not taking my job. The people bitching about "them immigrants are taking our jobs" should maybe turn off American Idol and re-evaluate their life. Going back to school so they can become a skilled worker or tradesmen.

Unless you plan on picking blueberries, washing dishes at a restaurant, mowing lawns, providing the sweat and muscle for building houses, or being a sanitation engineer for your career choice than you benefit economically from "illegal" immigration.

[Edited on November 14, 2007 at 2:27 PM. Reason : a]

11/14/2007 2:22:17 PM

Quote :

"Mr. Spitzer's decision to abandon his plan comes as a poll released Tuesday by Siena College found that seven in 10 New York voters who had heard about it — and more than 80 percent of the 625 registered voters polled had — opposed it. It also found that for the first time, more people viewed the governor unfavorably than favorably."

Quote :

"Opposition to the proposal sent his poll numbers plunging and stalled his broader agenda."

11/14/2007 9:51:02 PM

And now they will continue to complain about getting into accidents with uninsured illegals who don't understand the basic rules of driving.

Never mind that they don't understand because we never tested them, or that they're uninsured because we won't let them get insurance, because the important thing is DEY TUK URR JOBS!

11/15/2007 12:35:37 AM

^ I think the New Yorkers that are against Spitzer's plan are a little more sophisticated than you give them credit for.

11/15/2007 1:12:14 AM

Quote :

"DEY TUK URR JOBS"

FTW

Every time i hear about people bitching about mexican illegals i think of that southpark episode. especially the part where the men are fucking each other in the butt to prevent the future people from being born.

11/15/2007 1:34:16 AM

http://www.siena.edu/uploadedFiles/Home/Parents_and_Community/Community_Page/Siena_Research_Institute/SNY%20NOV%2007%20FINAL%20(2).pdf

It looks like blacks were more in support of Spitzer's licensing plan more than the latinos. Whites across the board were strongly against it.

http://www.dhs.gov/xnews/releases/pr_1193749447502.shtm

After reading that though, it maybe makes it a little clearer why the latinos are so against it: it basically makes anyone with the 3rd tier license a second class citizen. Instead of them being able to stay under the radar, they'll have a big stamp on their ID that says "i'm here illegally." As it is now, illegally getting a "normal" license would be better for them, than going out of their way to get the second-rate license.

Also, from the currently proposed REAL ID standards, i'd have to be against Spitzer's plan too.

11/15/2007 2:17:40 AM

Quote :

"And now they will continue to complain about getting into accidents with uninsured illegals who don't understand the basic rules of driving. Never mind that they don't understand because we never tested them, or that they're uninsured because we won't let them get insurance, because the important thing is DEY TUK URR JOBS!"

and nevermind the fact that they have no legal right to be here or anything...

11/15/2007 6:59:13 AM

Nevermind the fact that the American economy is built on the back of their exploitation.

[Edited on November 15, 2007 at 8:37 AM. Reason : add]

11/15/2007 8:37:29 AM

And you see how they're flocking to escape that.

11/15/2007 9:01:02 AM

Quote :

"illegal immigrants do the work that no one else wants to do"

you mean:

"illegal immigrants do the work that no everyone jailed for drugs wants to be freed in order to do"



I mean, we complain about how ex-cons that aren't able to find jobs fall prone to recidivism

and then we turn around and tolerate illegal immigrants "stealing" these jobs

not just from the ex-cons, but from unemployed legal American citizens in general

as well as legal non-citizens that followed the rules,

as well as those still "in line" to become legal non-citizens by following the rules.

How does that make any sense?

Why should we simultaneously step on our own feet in terms of our own work force

while rewarding those that illegally and unfairly jump to the front of the employment line?




btw,

sentences for crack, that are over 100 times harsher than sentences for cocaine, are being reduced

and they're talking about retroactively reducing the sentences of convicted crack users/dealers currently in jail

this will continue with other drug convicts as the feds continue to lose the "war" on drugs

we have plenty of non-violent and/or non-larcenous citizens sitting in jail that would love to pick fruit


I absolutely don't buy the "no one wants to do these jobs" argument because it is 100% wrong

If it were possible for the argument to be 110% wrong, it would be.

11/15/2007 10:44:01 AM

Quote :

"I mean, we complain about how ex-cons that aren't able to find jobs fall prone to recidivism"

I would rather have Jose' doing my gardening who's only crime in life is crossing the border illegally; then some ex-con. Even if the only crime was smoking crack.

11/15/2007 11:06:05 AM

Many immigrant waves came into the US as tempest-tossed, unskilled laborers. They came in the way the country wanted them to, and they assimilated into the American culture.

Having Mexicans come in isn't what bothers me. It's the way they are coming in. You can't really blame them for this, it's the fault of the gov't for not controlling the border.

As far as the assimilation. By the second or so generation, a group is pretty much speaking english and fitting in.
I understand the good feelings some get by trying to be compassionate and making the assimilation easier by using so much Spanish language. But if we keep coddling Hispanics too much as we work them into our culture, you run the risk of their culture assimilating us.

11/15/2007 11:19:27 AM

Quote :

"I think the New Yorkers that are against Spitzer's plan are a little more sophisticated than you give them credit for."

And I think that nobody ever got poor or voted out of office by underestimating the sophistication of the electorate.

Quote :

"and nevermind the fact that they have no legal right to be here or anything..."

The availability of driver's licenses isn't going to do much to change whether we have illegal immigration. So, the question is, would you rather have:

a) A bunch of illegal immigrants who cannot possibly be insured and have had no oversight whatsofuckingever to see if they know how to drive, or
b) A bunch of illegal immigrants, at least some of whom are now insured and who have had their driving skills examined

The thing is, you'll take (a), because somehow their presence in here in contradiction of an unjust, xenophobic law offends you so much that you're willing to risk lives to demonstrate your distaste.

Quote :

"You can't really blame them for this, it's the fault of the gov't for not controlling the border."

:pounds head on desk:

It's the fault of the government for setting up an unjust law that spits on the free market, to say nothing of being unenforceable.

C'mon, EarthDogg, you're supposed to be the libertarian, surely the free trade ramifications of immigration should hold some sway over you?

11/15/2007 12:35:07 PM

Quote :

"Nevermind the fact that the American economy is built on the back of their exploitation."

Get that crap outta here.

11/15/2007 1:49:22 PM

^^

1. Well, why in hell don't you put blame where it's due, Grumpy? In addition to overwhelming opposition on both sides of the aisle to Spitzer's plan, there is now strong evidence that Hillary Clinton/her camp told Governor Spitzer to drop the issue. From Hardball:

Quote :

"FRED DICKER: Yeah, we believe she did. We were told -- I was told -- at a very high level in New York politics that Mrs. Clinton's campaign or some of her top people signalled to Governor Spitzer's people that he had damaged her. They were wondering what the heck he was up to, why did he bring it to the floor now, and made it clear that the governor was hurting her and he ought to back down if he wanted to help her, which he says he wants to do. MATTHEWS: Is anybody in his office saying that, or are you getting that from a third party? Is anybody in Spitzer's office saying that the governor got the word from Hillary to cut it? DICKER: In his camp, but not his office. But at the highest levels."

http://video.msn.com/?mkt=en-us&brand=msnbc&tab=m5&rf=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036697/&fg=&from=00&vid=2715784b-b95a-4b34-b658-6524b081ddba&playlist=videoByTag:mk:us:vs:0:tag:Source_Hardball:ns:MSNVideo_Top_Cat:ps:10:sd:-1:ind:1:ff:8A

2. Certainly, one can question the timing of the abandonment of the plan at issue--basically, a plan that nearly derailed Clinton during a presidential debate has been dropped about a day before another debate. Peculiar? You bet your ass. Yet again, the Dems are playing politics with a supposedly important issue.

3.

Quote :

"'When it takes two weeks and six different positions to answer one question on immigration,' he said, 'it's easy to understand why the Clinton campaign would rather plant their questions than answer them.'"

--Obama camp

4. Giving an illegal alien a license does not mean that we know who that person actually is. "Undocumented" means just that.

5. The license can be a gateway tool to other services and forms of identification.

6. Your I'm-above-it-all act is getting old.



[Edited on November 15, 2007 at 3:52 PM. Reason : .]

11/15/2007 3:51:50 PM

Quote :

"4. Giving an illegal alien a license does not mean that we know who that person actually is. "Undocumented" means just that."

What do you mean? Spitzer's plan required a passport.

If you mean the general sense of IDing someone, then how do we know people who the people that go through the naturlization process are?

Quote :

"5. The license can be a gateway tool to other services and forms of identification. "

Like what?

11/15/2007 4:42:48 PM

Quote :

"The thing is, you'll take (a), because somehow their presence in here in contradiction of an unjust, xenophobic law offends you so much that you're willing to risk lives to demonstrate your distaste."

Nice, race card coming out again. When you can't make a good argument, just call your opponent a racist, right? Thanks, Rev. Sharpton.

But seriously, if you think the law is soooooooooooo bad, then why don't you go out and try and get THAT LAW changed, instead of finding a multitude of ways to evade and ignore a federal law?

And, just for good measure, I'll add this in... I think that we should go out of our way to make the lives of illegal immigrants in the US a total hell. We should make it ridiculously hard for ANYONE to get by in this country without having a legal right to be here. Doing anything else ENCOURAGES illegal immigration. Does it suck that we have so many people here illegally? Absolutely. But the solution isn't just to throw up our hands and say "welp, let's accommodate these criminals." The solution is to make it undesirable to be here under any circumstances other than legal ones. And then, guess what? All of the "problems" associated with illegal immigrants will diminish, including the ones that involve them driving around. Imagine that: solving the problem seems to fix all of the symptoms of the problem, too! Crazy, aint it?

11/15/2007 6:41:45 PM

aaronburro did some Mexican take your lawn mowing job growing up or something???

If nothing else Mexicans come here work hard, open up nice mexican restaurants so i can get my tacos, they do not turn everything in a racial issue, for the most part to not expect free handouts, and to be nearly tied for the largest minority population are statistically much less likely to be the ones breaking into my car stealing my stereo while parked at the mall.

If you want to be mad at anyone for

Quote :

"DEY TUK URR JOBS"

. Blame George W who made it more profitable for companies to move their manufacturing over seas. I'm not quite sure yet how i feel about free trade but thats another issue. The outsourcing of jobs and increased competitiveness of foreign companies in the US consumer markets are more to blame then the Mexican coming over to scrub dishes for your job loss.



[Edited on November 15, 2007 at 7:49 PM. Reason : 1]

11/15/2007 7:43:49 PM