For a while now I've been considering a career change and was wondering if anyone had experience though friends, family, employment with the State Department and their Foreign Service Officer program.

Pros and especially cons are appreciated. Thanks T-dub.

11/7/2007 10:30:29 PM

I don't have personal experiences.

I do know that the test is extremely difficult and highly competitive. There are preparatory classes that you can take similar to those offered for the GMAT and LSAT.

They have a recruiting office over in hell at UNC-CH.

11/7/2007 10:54:21 PM

i'm planning to take the test, i'll let you know how it goes--i do know that if you're coming from another federal job, they'll try to match your salary; their entry-level pay isn't great, especially for an engineer, so i may try to do that

there's a pdf floating around from georgetown that has a lot of information on the fso corps, i'll see if i can find it again

[Edited on November 8, 2007 at 12:00 AM. Reason : &]

11/7/2007 11:56:45 PM

Looks like the State Department is hiring:

http://careers.state.gov/hiring.html#FSO

11/8/2007 1:08:30 AM

ever thought about being a Foreign Area Officer in the military? familier with the program?

(it may be called something different in the Army, although i don't think so)

11/8/2007 1:46:58 AM

I don't have personal experience with the exam, but one of my friends who was a Gates Scholar at Cambridge (pretty bright guy) failed it. He's in law school now and is planning to take it again soon, but he's intimidated by it now.

11/8/2007 2:10:36 AM

FS entry process

http://isd.georgetown.edu/best.pdf

OPM suitability matrix

http://editthis.info/images/jpl_rebadging/a/ab/Suitability_Matrix_mods.pdf

FSO blog

http://fsoglobetrotter.blogspot.com/

Quote :

"ever thought about being a Foreign Area Officer in the military? familier with the program?"

google wasn't very forthcoming with information--what exactly do they do?

[Edited on November 8, 2007 at 3:57 AM. Reason : &c]

11/8/2007 3:35:17 AM

you go to foreign language school in Monterey, CA for 1-1.5 years, then to whatever you're assigned for a couple of years. You are specifically forbidden from engaging in intelligence gathering operations--i.e., you are not a spy. you are given a supplemental budget to allow you to travel extensively throughout the country and meet, greet, partake, and learn as much as you can about the country, its culture, and in general how they do things and what makes them tick. you also continue to take classes at local institutions.

when you're done and move on to your next assignment, you're a go-to guy any time they need to consult experts on your particular country.


oh, and it's not a primary job in the military--it's an assignment open to officers from various communities.

[Edited on November 8, 2007 at 4:10 AM. Reason : asdfasd]

[Edited on November 8, 2007 at 4:11 AM. Reason : and this is how it works in the USMC. your mileage may vary slightly in the Army.]

11/8/2007 4:09:14 AM

I have a bit of experience with the State Department and specifically the Foreign Service from my time working for them at our Embassy in Bosnia. What kind of stuff do you want to know (I could ramble on all day about it so for the sake of your eyes, itd help to know what you are looking for)?

I think that the Foreign Service is a really cool career but definetly not for everyone, not even most. Since I know from reading here that you have been in the military, I should point out that quite a few of the FSOs that I worked with were prior military (Marines, Army, and one from the Air Force). I dont know if this is indicative of Embassies around the world or just Bosnia and the like. At the time, it was a 'hardship' post because of the increased terrorist threat and the fact that it was a post war country. Hardship entails a substantial pay raise but it also means that only your spouse and children under 5 can accompany you (the idea being that children under 5 will always be with a parent). That said, life there was hardly a hardship. Sure, we had many many interesting security briefings and 'panic rooms' in our houses (they were more of a 'cool' novelty to show guests rather than a place that id want to actually use), but day to day life was pretty normal for eastern europe. It certainly wasnt anywhere near as overtly dangerous as when I was first in the country in the mid nineties.

The work itself was generally very cool. I worked in the Political section and my portfolio included Human Rights, Elections, CounterTerrorism, Counter Narcotics, and Human Trafficking. Quite often I got to stray outside of my portfolio to work with other FSOs on other subjects (like spending a few days a week at the beach negotiating the arrival of a Naval vessel for a port call). Obviously, I was very low on the totem pole but I still got to participate in a lot of interesting things outside of the compound. As a general rule, the high level activities were tedious and boring while the high profile stuff was a ton of fun. It was always fun showing up to these events as the sole representative of the US and getting a WTF look from the security (i was 21 at that time).

As a general rule, the embassy was a very tightly knit community from the Marine Security Guards to the FSOs to the Ambassador. We were all away from home and in the same situations so we all made the most of it. During the holidays there was never a shortage of people hosting big embassy wide parties. I had never had three thanksgiving meals in one day before I lived there. Additionally, the MSGs were widely regarded as the social coordinators of the embassy. they were the youngest there and had the most kickass house (the entire ground floor was a bar, just like you would go out to in raleigh. pool table, foosball, tvs everywhere, and fully stocked with alcohol from the states) so they threw regular parties for the entire staff. It was always fun to bring locals to these parties and see their reaction to the debauchery.

Like I said, I could go on and on all day so let me know what youre looking for.

Quote :

"I do know that the test is extremely difficult and highly competitive."

Having taken the test before, I wouldnt say that it is extremely difficult. Frustrating to be sure, but the questions arent real brain busters. In fact, they are more trivial so that you cant really study too much for them aside from general topic areas. Either you know the questions or you dont. If you can get through the general knowledge section, can sell yourself on the bio section, have a firm grasp of the english language, and can write like a college student should, then you will be fine. It is, however, highly competitive which is the problem for most. There is no shortage of really smart people interested in these jobs, but simply being smart does not guarantee success in this type of job.

Quote :

"They have a recruiting office over in hell at UNC-CH"

The Diplomat in Residence is actually over at Duke at the moment. They tend to alternate between keeping offices at Chapel Hill and Duke. One of the DIRs a few years back was a Carolina grad but had to work at duke. The current DIR is Renee Earle and she is very nice and great to talk with. I actually visited her a few weeks back when I was in the US. For those that manage to make it past the written exam, she offers practice sessions for the Oral Assessment. I've never had to go through FS Oral Assessment but I would have loved to have a practice session before the Diplomatic Security Oral Exam.

11/8/2007 4:56:19 AM

^ Please continue--it's interesting.

11/8/2007 5:54:32 AM

What do you want to know?

11/8/2007 6:54:13 AM

Will they accept old ass douchebags?

11/8/2007 9:13:31 AM

What does the Foreign Service think about past "experiences" say at a Grateful Dead conert, for example?

11/8/2007 2:19:03 PM

^^ I think they do--so you're a cinch.

11/8/2007 2:27:23 PM

Quote :

"What does the Foreign Service think about past "experiences" say at a Grateful Dead conert, for example?"

I think all government agencies recently changed their policy to no illegal drugs within the past year.

11/8/2007 2:31:20 PM

Were you listening to Diane Rehm today? It seems like a potentially decent gig, and especially seems like they're hard up for people.

11/8/2007 2:57:18 PM

^^Cool. Thanks skankin monkey.

[Edited on November 8, 2007 at 3:18 PM. Reason : k]

11/8/2007 3:18:16 PM

Regarding past drug use, straight from the horse's mouth:

Quote :

"Drug Involvement 24. The Concern. Use of an illegal drug or misuse of a prescription drug can raise questions about an individual's reliability and trustworthiness, both because it may impair judgment and because it raises questions about a person's ability or willingness to comply with laws, rules, and regulations. (a) Drugs are defined as mood and behavior altering substances, and include: (1) Drugs, materials, and other chemical compounds identified and listed in the Controlled Substances Act of 1970, as amended (e.g., marijuana or cannabis, depressants, narcotics, stimulants, and hallucinogens), and (2) inhalants and other similar substances; (b) drug abuse is the illegal use of a drug or use of a legal drug in a manner that deviates from approved medical direction. 25. Conditions that could raise a security concern and may be disqualifying include: (a) Any drug abuse (see above definition); (b) testing positive for illegal drug use; (c) illegal drug possession, including cultivation, processing, manufacture, purchase, sale, or distribution; or possession of drug paraphernalia; (d) diagnosis by a duly qualified medical professional (e.g., physician, clinical psychologist, or psychiatrist) of drug abuse or drug dependence; (e) evaluation of drug abuse or drug dependence by a licensed clinical social worker who is a staff member of a recognized drug treatment program; (f) failure to successfully complete a drug treatment program prescribed by a duly qualified medical professional; (g) any illegal drug use after being granted a security clearance; (h) expressed intent to continue illegal drug use, or failure to clearly and convincingly commit to discontinue drug use. 26. Conditions that could mitigate security concerns include: (a) the behavior happened so long ago, was so infrequent, or happened under such circumstances that it is unlikely to recur or does not cast doubt on the individual's current reliability, trustworthiness, or good judgment; (b) a demonstrated intent not to abuse any drugs in the future, such as: (1) dissociation from drug-using associates and contacts; (2) changing or avoiding the environment where drugs were used; (3) an appropriate period of abstinence; (4) a signed statement of intent with automatic revocation of clearance for any violation; (c) abuse of prescription drugs was after a severe or prolonged illness during which these drugs were prescribed, and abuse has since ended; (d) satisfactory completion of a prescribed drug treatment program, including but not limited to rehabilitation and aftercare requirements, without recurrence of abuse, and a favorable prognosis by a duly qualified medical professional. "

http://www.state.gov/m/ds/clearances/60321.htm#h

When I went through my clearance investigation with Diplomatic Security, they asked a lot of questions about drug and alcohol abuse (perhaps because I was only 21). They even asked what i would do if I were to father a child overseas, weird.

11/9/2007 7:50:18 AM

What type of stuff should you study if you plan to take the test? I have been interested for a while but haven't had the time to look into it as much as I've wanted yet.

11/9/2007 8:01:53 AM

They've changed the test around a bit this year so they've eliminated or combined certain sections. The writing section is pretty straightforward: either you can produce a well written essay (often argumentative of some sort) or you can't. Unfortunately, the writing style that you have to use in this essay is NOTHING like any of the types of writing that I had to do when I worked in the Embassy (and I did a LOT of writing)

The english language section is pretty much a staple of standardized tests. Just read a passage and pick out the grammatical errors or something like that. If you did well on this section of the SAT or some other test, you should be fine on this one. Nothing too tricky.

The biographical information section is pretty difficult to 'study' for in that it is asking question about you. Since time is of the essence during the test, I would recommend looking over your resume and thinking about situations that you can promote from your past, whether it be academic or work related. Most of the questions are geared to determine you experience level and how well rounded you are. This section may have changed a bit since the have added a personal narrative section to the application.

As I understand it, the general knowledge and career track sections have been combined again. What this means is that you will have to answer basic questions about each of the 5 career cones (Management, Consular, Public Diplomacy, Political, and Economic). I dont know if they officially weight the questions that pertain to the cone that you choose in your application but it would be wise to make sure that you dont miss any of them just to be safe. As far as the general knowledge questions go, they will draw from tons of areas: pop culture, geography, american government, etc. I find it pretty tough to really study for this section aside from brushing up on the basics because the questions can be pretty random.

They offer a study guide for $15 or so when you apply to take the test and it would be a pretty wise investment if its your first time taking the test. They have a few sample tests of each section and it will give you an idea of what to expect.

11/9/2007 8:56:02 AM

Oh, is it common for people to take the test multiple times?

11/9/2007 9:01:26 AM

Yes, in the past it has been very common. I have no clue with the new format since they just introduced it a few months ago. Nearly all of the FSOs that I worked with had taken it 2 or more times.

11/9/2007 9:29:16 AM

If anyone else has anything to add, i'd love to read about it. I'm still debating trying for something like this or going the masters/phd route.

11/12/2007 9:08:52 PM

Quote :

"(4) a signed statement of intent with automatic revocation of clearance for any violation;"

Catch-all phrase for the applicant who is outstanding but a raging pothead



Thanks all for this thread - I've considered work in the State Department myself so this information is very useful. What kind of training do FSOs go through? What kinda PT, marksmanship, height/weight, grooming standards are there?

11/12/2007 9:28:14 PM

Quote :

"What kind of training do FSOs go through?"

they spend a year plus in training, but i don't know exactly what that entails

Quote :

"What kinda PT, marksmanship, height/weight, grooming standards are there?"

heh, it's not that kind of officer--they have marines for that

[Edited on November 12, 2007 at 9:46 PM. Reason : unless you mean diplomatic security]

11/12/2007 9:42:00 PM

True, but I figured they'd have to have SOME physical standards

11/12/2007 9:49:42 PM

well, considering that for at least the first few years you're likely gonna be in some third-world shithole, it's probably not a bad idea. the girl in the blog i posted mentions that there were saferooms in their housing in pakistan...

[Edited on November 12, 2007 at 9:58 PM. Reason : &]

11/12/2007 9:56:05 PM

Quote :

"I'm still debating trying for something like this or going the masters/phd route."

Simply put, you can do both. It costs nothing to take the exam and begin the process. The process itself is pretty long and a master's/phd on top of international experience/regional expertise would really help going through that process.

Quote :

"What kind of training do FSOs go through? What kinda PT, marksmanship, height/weight, grooming standards are there?"

All new FSOs have to go through A-100 which is basically Diplomacy 101. Its an esprit de corps class that introduces everyone to diplomatic life and this is where you get your first assignment. After A100, its on to full time language training which could last as long as two years (arabic, chinese, etc). However, if you are needed, they can pull you out of language training early. When I worked in bosnia, we had a language instructor on site that tutored everyone a few days per week.

For the vast majority of embassies, there is no PT/marksmanship/height or weight standards other than getting medically cleared to serve anywhere in the world. There are exceptions though, Iraq currently being one of them. All FSOs going to Iraq have to take the Diplomatic Security AntiTerrorism Course - Iraq before leaving. From what ive heard, it covers basic weapons familiarization, IED identification, defensive driving, and other similar things. It lasts about a week i believe. If you are interested in becoming a Diplomatic Security Special Agent/RSO, the requirements are much like any other federal law enforcement agency.

Quote :

"the girl in the blog i posted mentions that there were saferooms in their housing in pakistan..."

My house in Bosnia had a saferoom. Nowhere near as cool as in the movie 'panic room', the room itself was actually my master bathroom. And its not surprising that they have them in Pakistan since the consulate in Karachi has been attacked a number of times over the past few years.

11/13/2007 8:27:54 AM

Quote :

"their entry-level pay isn't great, especially for an engineer,"

¨

True, the entry-level pay for an FSO is nothing to write home about but there are lots of perks that raise that base salary a bit. While at post, you are either provided embassy housing (sometimes within the compound [ie: Russia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Algeria, etc], and sometimes out in the community) or you are provided a housing allowance and free to find your own housing. The apartment I was assigned in Bosnia was in the heart of downtown, lavishly furnished, and orders of magnitude better and larger than anywhere that I've lived in the past. The only thing that I was responsible for paying was my phone bill, all other utilities were covered by the embassy.

Additionally, State provides FSO with post differential and hazardous duty pay. The amounts of these varies based on a number of factors but can add a serious amount of cash on top of your base salary. Currently Iraq is the highest that I know of at 35% for both PD and Hazardous Duty pay. Yeah, thats right, if you do a tour in Iraq, they tack on and addition 70% of your base pay to your paycheck. In these hazardous duty posts, they also provide a paid R&R trip or two back to the US (or anywhere in the world that doesnt exceed the cost of your ticket home). This is in addition to your vacation time.

In instances where either your children cannot accompany you to post or where there arent schools up to american standards, the department pays to send your kids to school. A coworker of mine who spent most of his career in backwater african countries, sent his kids away to the best boarding schools in Switzerland. Obviously, it is far from ideal to send your kids away for an extended period of time but it is something that you should be aware of before joining the foreign service.

For you engineers and IT guys out there, you have an additional option of becoming a Foreign Service Specialist. You will be posted overseas just like FSOs but your work will be in your field. All of the stuff that I have said about FSOs applies to you with the exception being the selection process. You do not have to take a written exam to begin the process. You submit your application to the review board and if they like you, youll be invited to an oral assessment. It'll be an all day interview basically, but at the end, you will know if you get a conditional offer of employment or not. One of the IT guys that came toward the end of my time at Embassy Sarajevo was actually and NC State grad which was pretty cool.

11/17/2007 7:22:15 AM

Ok, I hate to keep BTTTing this since Im essentially talking to myself at this point, but has anyone who applied to take the test received an offer to take the test during the December 1-8 window? They just released the overseas testing sites and they are offering at the embassy here, Im just wondering how long it takes to get the offer.

11/19/2007 7:49:28 AM

i had thought about taking it, but i'm not sure i'll take the time to assemble my resume and what-not before the deadline. what is it--the 26th i think...anyway, if i do and i hear something, i'll let you know

[Edited on November 19, 2007 at 8:05 AM. Reason : oh, and post whatever other information you can think of--i read it even if i don't comment]

11/19/2007 8:03:33 AM

I'm thinking about looking at taking the test this summer. The website I read said the whole process takes about 6 months to complete.

11/19/2007 8:14:56 AM

^^ Yeah I went ahead and sucked it up and filled out the application last night. It takes quite a bit of time with the KSAs and having to account for every job (both paid and volunteer) over the past 10 years. I have way too much going on right now to even think about the exam but I really want to get the ball rolling as soon as possible. Since my thesis goes before an approval board on the 3rd of december, I cant take the exam unless I can get a slot after that date.

^ I really hope that they have managed to streamline the process enough to get it down to six months. In many cases in the past, the security clearance process would take at least that long.

11/19/2007 8:23:13 AM

Why are you applying again? Did you quit, then go to school, then decide to rejoin?

11/19/2007 9:26:36 AM

hahaa no, I wasnt officially an FSO when I was at the Embassy, just an Intern. Luckily for me they were up to their eyeballs in work and were shortstaffed at that time (elections, post 9/11, run up to the iraq war, etc in addition to the normal work). I expected to do the normal BS intern duties but my first day in the office my boss told me that as far as he was concerned, i was an FSO and my workload and status in the office reflected that.

11/19/2007 9:32:12 AM

For the engineers out there:

http://tinyurl.com/3cvwsr

The State Deparment is hiring Foreign Service Diplomatic Security Engineering Officers. Basically it looks like you'd be designing, implementing, and maintaining Counter-terrorism/surveillance/espionage systems for embassies. For the current students, you are eligible to apply if you are within 9 months of graduating and at least 20 years old.

11/20/2007 11:26:36 AM

^^ So what is the deal with placement? Do you have any say so in where you go? What if you know or kind-of know another language?

11/22/2007 5:11:53 PM

FYI, as the OP I just wanted to say that the information here has been awesome. I've decided to put off being an FSO because of something else I've always wanted to do that can't be put off, but I'll probably wind up doing it someday anyway.

11/22/2007 11:27:26 PM

^^ As far as I understand placement to go, you have some say but ultimately it is up to the Department. When you apply, you have to clearly state that you are available for worldwide deployment. That said, in A-100, I understand that you get to fill out a prioritized wish list based on the available openings list. From this wish list will generally be your posting. Im pretty sure that if you have fluency in a strategic language or a highly sought after language, you will have a better shot at getting a posting where that language is spoken. Spanish, French, German, etc do not apply and while they are great to know, I doubt that they will get you much of an advantage since lots of people speak them.

*That said, all of the information in this post is simply from what I heard while working in the embassy in Bosnia from the junior officers. Since I was an intern, I didnt have to go through that same process, at that time intern applicants provided a wish list of 3 embassies that they would work at and you either got a job at one of those or no job at all.

11/23/2007 10:25:36 AM

^ ok, thanks. I'm almost done filling out the application. This is exactly the kind of thing I'm looking for if the JAG doesn't work out.

11/23/2007 3:16:38 PM

they've just made the exam available overseas w/ a max of 1000 test takers for the December 2007 exam. Manila is a pilot test site this year....perhaps I'll think about this more next year.

11/25/2007 10:28:36 PM

^ I made it in as one of the 1000. Originally, they werent going to offer it overseas until the March Exam but they somehow managed to get it up and running early. I'm really glad that I paid the Diplomat in Residence at Duke a visit when I was home last month, otherwise I would have missed out.

11/26/2007 9:36:55 AM

congrats on that!

11/27/2007 1:38:10 AM

bttt

8/7/2009 8:24:32 AM

Thanks, I guess I didn't go far enough when I searched.

8/7/2009 12:26:19 PM

WOW ... didn't realize this thread is so old. hopefully SkiSalmon is still paying attention

this career sounds very exciting to me. I already have a security clearance and FSO sounds like a great job when I leave the Navy. If SkiSalmon or any other FSO's are still around, can you tell me what exactly your job was like? How much of it was cool and how much of it was bureaucratic BS?

8/7/2009 10:49:37 PM

I'm going to be taking the test on Oct. 3, hopefully. I have a lot of study material to go through.

8/8/2009 1:04:00 AM

Its really funny that this thread got bumped today, i was just thinking about it. Im planning to take the test again in October and am looking for a person or two to study with. Nerdchick, when I get a few minutes tomorrow Ill post some info about what my job entailed past what I wrote earlier in this thread. I too didnt realize how long ago this thread was from.

8/8/2009 3:51:53 AM

As far as studying goes, over the past few days Ive begun to get a lot of study materials together:
- Arco Study Guide
- Cliff's Study Guide
- Official State Dept Study guide (current edition + the ones from 03 and 04)
- American Dictionary of Cultural Literacy
- Plus lots of docs and pdfs found on the FSWE group on Yahoo.

Last week I happened to be in DC during the same time as a recruiting event at Main State. Most of the info they provided was little more than that listed on careers.state.gov but there were a few things that were of interest to me. They made it very clear that they are hiring and looking to bring a lot of people on board over the next few years. They mentioned that they intend to hire 750 FSOs this year. USAID mentioned that they intend to double their cadre of FSOs over the next few years.

Flying Tiger, what career track are planning to apply into? Despite previously working in Political, I am planning to apply into Economic.

Nerdchick, in my experience working in an embassy for State was a lot of fun. There were certainly times that it was monotonous and others that it was a lot of fun. Your experience will depend on a number of factors: what country you are in, how large/'important' your embassy is, who you ambassador/supervisors are, and what our foreign policy is for that country. In the case of Bosnia, we had a lot of influence there and my time there was during a very busy and important time.

Like any govt job, there was a fair amount of bureaucracy but it wasnt as bad as I would have expected. I worked in an office with six political officers and our political counselor (boss). Each person had a specific portfolio of duties ranging from Counter Narcotics/terrorism, federation/republika srpska politics, political-military affairs, etc. Generally, an FSO is the resident expert on issues pertaining to their portfolio and follow any developments and report on important topics. In other cases, requests for specific information will come down from the Ambo/Washington. A big part of the job is meeting with host government officials, members of the diplomatic community, local civic organizations.

I particularly liked the job because it was never the same day to day, offering a variety of challenges. Some days I would be in the office reporting on the day's/week's activities and the next I could be out traveling around the country observing elections/observing the excavation of mass graves/planning the port visit of a Navy ship. It was def not a 9-5 job, even though I was the lowest in the food chain I would routinely be required to represent the Embassy at local events. Sometimes I would be on my own, sometimes with coworkers, and sometimes with the Ambassador.

Its def not a job for everyone, living overseas for prolonged periods of time and under constant scrutiny can prove too much for some. No matter what you are doing, you represent the US and the Embassy. In that sense, it is impossible to leave work at work. However, this really make the embassy community act like a family. This even extends to the diplomatic community as a whole.

8/8/2009 2:43:17 PM

can you not register for the Oct test until September?

8/8/2009 3:39:30 PM