Black lab mix rescue, about 3.5 y/o. She's had flakes for a while and she itches occasionally, especially around her head...likes to rub her body on the furniture. We used to have her on standard IAMS, but suspecting an allergy to something in the food, I moved to a fish and potato food made by Nature's Choice (I think) and she did a little better. Then I moved her to a duck and potato made by "Dick Van Pattens Natural Balance" sold at PetCo...and shes doing a little better on that. But she still gets flakes, and she still itches. she's also had some sort of ear problem in the past and we had to treat with drops (sorry im not sure what drops). And now this:

Quote :

".my dogs right ear stinks like crap...and it was pretty moist in there. there was some brown mud looking stuff in there (but it wasn't mud). i cleaned it out with some bottled ear cleaner stuff, put some ear mite treatment in there (came as part of a two part set with the cleaner), and put some ear powder in to dry it up."

Shes also been missing some hair on the outside of both ears for a while; I can't tell if thats getting worse or staying the same. Her hair near the base of her tail was thinning on both sides, and she itches it alot, but it looks likes its grown back in since then. Her eyes tear some...but not anything out of the ordinary.

I'm planning on taking her to the vet this week, but its kinda far down in Holly Springs. I'm thinking about getting her tested for allergies, but I know thats like $200 and it sounds like the end result of that testing is often having to give her expensive shots all the time, which I'm not sure I want to do...so whats the real point of the testing if I know I don't want to give her shots?


What say the animal experts of tww? The post is meant to help gather information in perpetration of taking her in. Thanks for any info.

10/21/2007 9:45:48 PM

no offense but i think you are the biggest jew on tww

Quote :

"perpetration"

preparation?

10/21/2007 9:51:27 PM

what kinda post is that?

do you not know the difference between lounge and chit chat?

if you think he's such a jew, why didnt you PM him and tell him? im sure it has nothing to do with the fucking dog you retard.

10/21/2007 10:39:51 PM

drunknloaded, stay in chit chat, you do best there

synapse, sounds like your buddy has an ear infection.

10/21/2007 10:43:40 PM

The vet will take care of the ear infection.

As for allergies... Our dog has bad allergies and has been on Fish and Potato for some time (it definitely helps). My wife (a vet) also gives her one Benadryl in the morning and one at night to help with the itching (plus it helps her sleep). We find that if you buy the cheap instant mashed potatoes they are perfect for giving pills to dogs with allergies (just mix up a cup at a time and keep it in the fridge for a couple of days).

Also, be sure you aren't giving your dog any treats that might be compounding the problems... bones, greenies, and pretty much every commercial treat are made with high allergy products like chicken and wheat. You can thinly slice potatoes then microwave them for about 7 minutes for "potato chips" that our dog loves. Baby carrots work well too.

Have your vet give you some allergy Relief oatmeal shampoo and you might need some pyoben shampoo for the skin irritations. I wouldn't bother with the allergy tests and/or shots. Just like some people, certain dogs are going to have problems with allergies for their whole life no matter what approach you take. Right now is one of the two peak allergy times of year for pets and with the NC being a high allergen region there isn't much you can do to avoid it (just make the dog as comfortable as possible).

10/21/2007 11:56:14 PM

10/22/2007 12:43:48 AM

Definetly sounds like bad allergies. Most likely she'll need to go on prednisone. Make a vet appointment.

10/22/2007 10:03:10 AM

Quote :

"My wife (a vet) also gives her one Benadryl in the morning and one at night to help with the itching (plus it helps her sleep"

do you know what type of bendryl? I just started giving my dog the chewable childrens tablets but dont know if thats really the best thing.

10/22/2007 10:24:25 AM

I agree - it's more than likely the food that you feed. Besides the flaky skin and ear problems, do you also see him licking at his paws? Is there staining in between the paw pads?

A lot of allergies in dogs caused by food is a resultant of corn meal/corn, wheat gluten in foods - to bulk up the weight consistency in the food, decreasing the price of making the food. I replied to you in another thread, but I support feeding dogs Solid Gold. It's a great quality, holistic dog food - and there's a food in particular by them that I like, which is called Barking at the Moon - which is a high protein, low carb food that has no corn or wheat gluten and meal in it - and uses all natural ingredients.

Fish oils like Lipiderm, sold in PetsMart or PetCo, can be added to foods that will help with the oils on the dogs coat and skin - which will help with the flakiness of the skin. You can use a Medicated Oatmeal shampoo for your dog - but I also like to combine it with a leave-in oatmeal creme rinse. You can get those products from Davis Manufacturing which has a wide variety of dog shampoos and conditioners.

Vets, in my opinion, don't treat ear problems very effectively (I don't know why - but in my profession, I see a lot of dogs with ear problems and after having the owner say that they are on a regimen from the vet, and having the ears still look nasty - I doubt they are on the correct regimen). I don't know whether or not it's because they can't get a good culture sample from the ear canal or they don't dive further in the problem as to why the dog has the issue in the first place. Changing the food will help tremendously. Then you need to be able to keep the dog's ears clean and dry. If the dog has hair in the ears, plucking the hair out is probably the first thing to do. I always like to flush the ears out with a medicated shampoo (chlorohexedine, massage the canal, and flush out with warm water - that gets a lot of gunk out). I clean ears with cotton balls and Regular Listerine. Listerine is an amazing disinfectant, and it helps to dry the canal because of the alcohol content. You can clean the ears like this daily - and flush them weekly.

Hope this helps - hope you are able to get the medical assistance you need. Where do you live? Maybe we can refer you to closer veterinarians that can help you.

10/22/2007 10:29:52 AM

Quote :

"It's a great quality, holistic dog food - and there's a food in particular by them that I like, which is called Barking at the Moon - which is a high protein, low carb food that has no corn or wheat gluten and meal in it - and uses all natural ingredients. "

ew, you eat dog food???


naw, but seriously, you shouldn't eat dog food.

10/22/2007 10:35:48 AM

Really, Justin - please.


Barking at the Moon is a holistic dog food that I like to use to feed my animals. As a disclaimer, I have never eaten dog food, although Solid Gold only uses human-grade quality ingredients in their food.

10/22/2007 10:44:16 AM

i no i was jking.

10/22/2007 10:50:05 AM

seasonal allergies are also a common problem, esp with the feet-chewing dogs. my dog is having ridiculous itchiness problems and it's all b/c we haven't gotten much rain (to wash away the allergens). you can give them benadryl a couple times a day and add some fish oil to the diet, already mentioned (cheap, sold at walmart in capsule form, you don't have to buy the jacked up in price dog version, it's all the same).

she doesn't eat dog food w/ corn or corn gluten meal (you don't have to buy expensive, prescription, or hard to find organic foods to get away from corn, fyi). she's had problems with this in the past. typically if it's a food allergy there will be some nausea and stomach upset associated with the food, not just a skin reaction.

she just goes into the vet a couple times a year and gets a cortisone shot (we just did this saturday actually). it's $16 at my vet.

you can try oatmeal shampoo but it's never done mia any good. we use a hypoallergenic shampoo that has no soap, no dyes, no fragrances, nothing. it's the only thing i can bathe her with that doesn't make her more itchy. also, tea tree oil (on the skin) helps if there's a particular spot she's chewing to death.
this is what we use on her:

the groomer lady and the vet tech at the store recommended it.

who broke the thread?

[Edited on October 22, 2007 at 11:14 AM. Reason : ]

10/22/2007 10:56:21 AM

Quote :

"Definetly sounds like bad allergies. Most likely she'll need to go on prednisone. Make a vet appointment."

Agreed, and agreed with Wheezer that vets don't seem to do a great job with ear problems. Our dog for the first 9 years of her life always had similar issues, and was on and off prednisone for most of those 9 years. We've been through many food trials and many treatments. A recent visit to a new vet has given us one hell of a breaktrough though.

The vet had us put the dg on a whitefish and sweet potato diet only and ha the dog on Temaril-P which has a lower dose of steroids like the pred, but also includes something like benedryl. She still itches from time to time, but for the first time in her life her ears aren't filled with crud and she isn't in pain whenever you touch her ears. Aside from the pill and weekly earcleaning, you would never know she had allergies. Only downside is the Temaril is about $40 every 2 months but that's so much cheaper than a vet visit every couple of months for new tests and treatments.

I would say ask the vet what they think about using the Temaril instead of the the pred, from what ours said, it's a much safer medicine for the dog.

[Edited on October 22, 2007 at 11:04 AM. Reason : dgfh]

10/22/2007 11:01:00 AM

Quote :

"I agree - it's more than likely the food that you feed. Besides the flaky skin and ear problems, do you also see him licking at his paws? Is there staining in between the paw pads? "

She doesnt lick her paws much, i'll check for staining. I've always fed her higher quality food, and the last two bags have been allergy-sensitive food and didn't use any of those typical ingredients which commonly cause reactions: corn,wheat etc. I was thinking of trying the duck/potato from the vets office and seeing how that goes. i'll look into that solid gold stuff too

Quote :

"Fish oils like Lipiderm, sold in PetsMart or PetCo, can be added to foods that will help with the oils on the dogs coat and skin - which will help with the flakiness of the skin. You can use a Medicated Oatmeal shampoo for your dog - but I also like to combine it with a leave-in oatmeal creme rinse. You can get those products from Davis Manufacturing which has a wide variety of dog shampoos and conditioners."

I'll look for that shampoo, the stuff i use now says "medicated" but doesnt have oatmeal in in. what about coal tar...is that advisible in addition to or instead of oatmeal? also ive worried about giving her the oil stuff in case shes allergic to that. should i not worry about that? this is the shampoo i use now. is it good or bad for allergic dogs:

also is there anything i can put on her entire body between baths to calm her skin down?

Quote :

"If the dog has hair in the ears, plucking the hair out is probably the first thing to do."

Your dog doesn't go nuts when you do that? Is the powder good for keeping the ear dry too? The active ingredient is 5% Lodoform. fyi this is what i used to clean/treat her ear before applying the powder: http://www.gundogsonline.com/dog-first-aid/pet-ear-care-kit.html


So it sounds like the chewable benedryl is a good idea? what dosage do you guys use?

10/22/2007 11:01:28 AM

my dog has the same problem with her ears and the vet had no clue how to fix it, so we just cleaned them out every day and started putting different creams on them to find the one that worked best. we tried just about any cream that you can find at any drug store and found that vagisil- no joke- works best.

10/22/2007 11:05:59 AM

good luck getting the dog to chew up a cherry/grape/whatever flavored pill. i know mia wouldn't.

i just give her 1 regular benadryl in a piece of cheese or mashed potatoes once or twice a day. it's not enough to make her sleepy but it helps the itching a tiny bit.

10/22/2007 11:13:03 AM

I wouldn't use the Coal Tar or tar and sulfur shampoos because those are more geared towards fungal/bacterial infections of the skin- - not for allergies or flakiness. Now, if you are noticing that your dog has an oiliness to it's skin/coat and the flakes are more scaley (yellow coloration) then yes, I would use that shampoo. Bio-groom has a medicated oatmeal shampoo that's just awesome. It's got some type of menthol in it that smells great, but makes the skin feel good. Davis Manufacturing as the oatmeal creme rinse that I love to use that you don't rinse out.

Medicated ear powder that you use for plucking the ear hair out will also dry the ears too. Works well. I sprinkle some in, kind of massage it in the canal and pluck the hair out - the remaining residue will dry it out. Vagisil is geared towards yeast infections for women, I've never heard of using it for dogs, but I'd ask your vet about it. The thing is about yeast, it needs a warm, moist environment with sugar/carbohydrates as it's nutrient source. A lot of foods have those unneccesary carbohydrates in the food becuse it's cheaper that way.

I can probably help you get these products if you're interested as I'm a Professional Dog Groomer. My shop owner is a Solid Gold Sales Rep, and you can buy the food from her. Solid Gold also has completely holistic treats you can give your dog that is void of chicken and corn meal/gluten. Solid Gold also sells suppliments that you can put in the food for skin/coat health.

10/22/2007 11:17:29 AM

can you get Innovo Evo dog food?^

PM if so. Ive only been able to find it online.

10/22/2007 11:32:14 AM

^ PM Sent!

10/22/2007 11:34:29 AM

Quote :

"I wouldn't use the Coal Tar or tar and sulfur shampoos because those are more geared towards fungal/bacterial infections of the skin- - not for allergies or flakiness. Now, if you are noticing that your dog has an oiliness to it's skin/coat and the flakes are more scaley (yellow coloration) then yes, I would use that shampoo. Bio-groom has a medicated oatmeal shampoo that's just awesome. It's got some type of menthol in it that smells great, but makes the skin feel good. Davis Manufacturing as the oatmeal creme rinse that I love to use that you don't rinse out"

Ahh, thats really helpful info, thanks! I haven't noticed oiliness or yellow coloration so I think I've been using the wrong stuff lately. I'll look for something with oatmeal in it. Sound like I can use one of those "cream rinses" between baths if i want?

and whats the normal causes of hair loss on a dogs ear? she had a skin scrape for mites (i think they were looking for mites) and that came back negative. i don't see her itching her ears all that often...what else could cause it? she doesn't have hair loss anywhere else, just on both ears. its about 30% gone but its been like that for a while (hasn't gotten worse).

also what oil supplement would you guys recommend? sound like i dont have to worry about allergies when it comes to those. heres a few i can find online. any of these look particularly good?
http://www.1800petmeds.com/dog.asp?LV=68 - Scroll down to supplements
http://www.petco.com/Shop/petco_ProductList_PC_productlist_Nav_186_N_22+103+30+5508.aspx
http://www.petco.com/product/10963/8-in-1-NutriCoat-Skin-and-Coat-Food-Supplement.aspx
http://www.petco.com/product/6970/Pet-Gold-Skin-and-Coat-Gel-Caps-for-Dogs-and-Cats.aspx

10/23/2007 10:41:14 AM

seriously, if you're just looking for a fish oil supplement, buy it from walmart/target/somewhere cheap. this is what my vet told me to do, and almost everything they sell for pets is marked way up. it's the same stuff, they just charge you $10-15 more to add the word PET to the label.

10/23/2007 1:13:13 PM

^ thx, I just picked up one of those big bottles of the fish oil capsules...hopefully my girly will eat them

This is the shampoo I got "TropiClean Medicated Shampoo." I don't remember seeing "medicated" on the label, but the ingredients look the same so thats it. Looks like all/mostly all natural ingredients so thats a major reason i got it.
http://www.petco.com/Shop/Product.aspx?familyid=9090#description

Quote :

"Specially formulated with oatmeal, tea tree, papaya, and aloe vera to sooth dry, itchy skin, while eliminating pet body odor. Natural salicylic acid eliminates flaking, dandruff, and scales associated with seborrhea."

Quote :

"Contains: Coconut based shampoo, oatmeal, salicylic acid, papaya extract, tea tree extract, vitamin E, yucca, aloe vera, kiwi."

I assume that will be better than the sulfadone? If thats not the right stuff I can take it back and get something else.

10/24/2007 8:57:18 AM

sounds good.

my has dog does fine w/ the capsules. they're the gel kind or whatever so i cut it open and drizzle it on her food. she loves it.

10/24/2007 9:06:46 AM

My boyfriend's weimeraner had the same issue with her ears. Her vet always said it was allergies-recommended changing to fish and potatoes food. He just said that her ears would have to be cleaned regularly, and he did that, but they just itched her all the time. She used to constantly shake her ears. This lasted 5 years.

Took her to a different vet this summer and he actually took the time to put the gunk from her ears on a scope. Massive yeast and bacterial infection that had been there 5 years basically untreated. After a month of antibiotic, antifungal and steroid treatment-her ears were pretty and pink and not hot feeling any more. I havent' seen her shake her head in months. Get a lab friend to actually look at the gunk if your vet won't...could save your dog a ton of suffering. btw-any suggestions for what to do about the negligent first vet??

10/24/2007 12:20:24 PM

Move on and forget about it...be grateful that the problem is now resolved.

10/24/2007 1:43:04 PM

Thats what we did-just had her records transferred. But it bothers me that a vet could miss such an easy diagnosis that caused permanent damage not to mention suffering. Could you imagine a 5 year ear infection and no opposable thumbs?

10/24/2007 2:23:20 PM

Haha, yea that would be torture!

10/24/2007 2:55:50 PM

shes going in this week if my vet can fit her in

in the meantime what do you guys think about:

Quote :

" and whats the normal causes of hair loss on a dogs ear? she had a skin scrape for mites (i think they were looking for mites) and that came back negative. i don't see her itching her ears all that often...what else could cause it? she doesn't have hair loss anywhere else, just on both ears. its about 30% gone but its been like that for a while (hasn't gotten worse)."

10/31/2007 9:18:08 PM

Discount Pet Store in Cary sells Innovo dog and cat food, fyi. Among other better brands.

And for jataylor, vagisil worked best because it is a cream used to calm yeast. It's common for long eared dogs with closed ear canals to get too moist and develop yeast infections - just like a vagina.

^Classic sign of food related allergy. Getting a hollistic brand might help, but getting a prescription anti-allergen diet will definitely help. If your vet hasn't noticed this...it might be time to get a new vet.

[Edited on November 1, 2007 at 11:12 AM. Reason : merf]

11/1/2007 11:06:32 AM