Quote :

"Former president Jimmy Carter isn't just suspicious that the US is using torture to extract intelligence from detainees -- he's absolutely convinced. Asked by CNN's Wolf Blitzer if, by Carter's definition of the word, the United States had used torture during the Bush administration, the Nobel Peace Prize winner was adamant: "I don't think it, I know it," he said. "Certainly." Pressed by Blitzer on whether that meant that President Bush was lying, Carter was equally clear. "The president is self-defning what we have done and authorized in the torture of prisoners," said Carter."Yes." Earlier in the interview, Carter said Bush's denial this week that the US did not in fact torture detainees was "not an accurate statement if you use the international norms of torture as has always been honored in the last 60 years, since the Universal Declaration of Human Rights was promulgated.""

http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Pres._Carter_US_tortures_prisoners_I_1010.html

He's basically saying what everybody knows, which is that President Bush can only say "We don't torture people" by changing the definition of what "torture" means.

10/11/2007 12:05:22 AM

Threadworthy?

Quote :

"He's basically saying what everybody knows"

10/11/2007 12:09:07 AM

Jimmy C in teh mofuckin howsss.

10/11/2007 2:25:34 AM

carter is a moron, no one should take him seriously

10/11/2007 2:48:39 AM

not only is Carter an ex-President of the US (duly elected, unlike his predecessor), he is also a recipient of the Nobel Peace Prize, a highly effective and accomplished philanthropist, an internationally-renowned author, a WWII combat veteran, a nuclear engineer, and the architect of the most successful peace treaty ever seen in the Mideast before or since...

you, on the other hand, are a semi-literate kneejerk partisan hack.

now what you got, bitch? nothing. that's what.






[Edited on October 11, 2007 at 3:10 AM. Reason : ]

10/11/2007 3:08:05 AM

i dont really find this threadworthy

10/11/2007 3:41:09 AM

Quote :

"not only is Carter an ex-President of the US (duly elected, unlike his predecessor), he is also a recipient of the Nobel Peace Prize, a highly effective and accomplished philanthropist, an internationally-renowned author, a WWII combat veteran, a nuclear engineer, and the architect of the most successful peace treaty ever seen in the Mideast before or since... you, on the other hand, are a semi-literate kneejerk partisan hack. now what you got, bitch? nothing. that's what. "

I think this won the thread.

10/11/2007 7:39:50 AM

Jimmy Carter: US tortures people, "I know it", by making them listen to interviews with Jimmy Carter! ZING

No, wait, it was a miss? crap.

10/11/2007 7:55:56 AM

Quote :

"not only is Carter an ex-President of the US (duly elected, unlike his predecessor), he is also a recipient of the Nobel Peace Prize, a highly effective and accomplished philanthropist, an internationally-renowned author, a WWII combat veteran, a nuclear engineer, and the architect of the most successful peace treaty ever seen in the Mideast before or since..."

No problems with his philanthropy. No problems with his combat record. Good guy, even. However, his presidency was absolutely horrible with record inflation and unemployment along with gas lines and high interest rates.

Oh and that peace treaty HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. WTF ever dude.

10/11/2007 9:54:57 AM

That massive inflation was all on Carter. The entire world was suffering during that period and Carter inherited a mess from the previous administration that was a direct result of the Vietnam War.

10/11/2007 10:03:43 AM

does carter know how to shut up and just rot...nobody gives a shit what he says except for when his opinion fits into line with CNN's political agenda to bring down the US

10/11/2007 10:06:53 AM

Well, Reagan only shut up and rot because he was suffering alzheimers. I appreciate what jimmy Carter is doing. He is by far a better human being than you wll ever be.

10/11/2007 10:08:14 AM

it's torture having to listen to that old guy

10/11/2007 10:19:51 AM

we probalby torture people as a direct result of carter's utter incompetency when it came to foreign policy

10/11/2007 10:33:50 AM

10/11/2007 10:39:02 AM

Quote :

"we probalby torture people as a direct result of carter's Bush's utter incompetency when it came to foreign policy"

10/11/2007 10:41:19 AM

we didnt torture people before bush then

10/11/2007 11:13:04 AM

Idk, but the Bush admin are the ones authorizing it now......and lying about it, until they change longstanding rules to facilitate their agenda.....shouldn't be surprised tho, by now its a clear pattern within this admin

[Edited on October 11, 2007 at 11:24 AM. Reason : .]

10/11/2007 11:21:13 AM

we haven't been attacked since 9/11 and if "enhanced interrogation methods" have prevented this, then i fully support "enhanced interrogation methods."

10/11/2007 11:44:38 AM

Quote :

"a WWII combat veteran"

More than we can say for Bush, unless sitting on a national guard base drinking beer and doing blow, while most young Americans at the time were fighting in the jungles of Vietnam earned bush veteran status.


btw its not torture. Guards and CIA agents just like having fun with prisoners.

Quote :

"we haven't been attacked since 9/11 and if "enhanced interrogation methods" bush wiping his ass with constitution, invading the privacy and 1st amendment rights of Americans, disregarding the geneva conventions whenever we feel like it, not giving due process to people we abducted from the middle east often only on circumstantial evidence, and violating human rights; have prevented this, then i fully support "enhanced interrogation methods." all the above"

[Edited on October 11, 2007 at 11:50 AM. Reason : l]

10/11/2007 11:46:04 AM

^ ah, someone watches family guy!

10/11/2007 11:48:42 AM

that's racist

10/11/2007 12:30:40 PM

Quote :

"we probalby torture people as a direct result of carter's utter incompetency when it came to foreign policy"

wasn't it Eisenhower a republican that put the American Friendly Monarch into power in Iran who was a complete despot who was eventually overthrown during a civil war.

Reagan that funded and supported Saddam during the 1980's. Reagan who also supported the mujahideen in Afghanistan who's distinguished members included Osama Bin Laden and future leaders of the Taliban. Even going as far as praising them as "freedom fighters"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mujahideen


yeah carter kinda fucked up with economics but i have always been under the impression that except for the iran debacle he was good with foreign policy.

10/11/2007 12:43:22 PM

HUR, maybe you could feed apple sauce and change his bed pans in a couple of months....this guy goes down as one of the worst presidents in the history of the country and by you blaming other presidents before him for his shortcomings shows us what an ass you are.

10/11/2007 1:08:41 PM

i was not defending Carter. TreeTwista10 made a statement that Carter's screw ups is the reason for the current state of the world in which we have to use torture to defend America from the turrrists. I merely pointed out that Carter had some assistance from other US presidents in creating the current hostility and hatred of the US in the Middle East

10/11/2007 1:12:58 PM

Quote :

"yeah carter kinda fucked up with economics but i have always been under the impression that except for the iran debacle he was good with foreign policy."

AAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, yes, hostages for 444 days in a foreign country is wonderful policy! You can't say he was good at foreign policy minus that whole hostage thing over there...

The hostage crisis defines his foreign policy.

[Edited on October 11, 2007 at 1:15 PM. Reason : .]

10/11/2007 1:15:14 PM

We went 8 years without any sort of a Homeland security or ridiculous torturing policies before we were attacked again. So, isn't it a little premature to make a judgment about the current torture policies until then? Keep in mind, we need to ignore all the literature and studies saying that torture doesn't really work.

Furthermore, if torture did work, how do we know that our torture policies are preventing us from being attacked? They don't publish that sort of information you know.

Hell, aside from some half baked plot in NYC, it doesn't even seem like the terrorists are after us at the moment.

10/11/2007 1:19:18 PM

^ that couldn't be because of something positive the US is doing?

10/11/2007 1:21:05 PM

Stop taking your cues from the TreeTwista school of soap box posting. If you have something in particular about my post that you would like to question, please quote it and phrase your concerns more completely.

Otherwise, I have no clue what the hell you are talking about.

10/11/2007 1:26:07 PM

Quote :

"except for the iran debacle he was good with foreign policy. "

some of you trolls have very bad selective reading. How is Iran the sole defining issue to define his foreign policy. Last time I checked their is 170 countries in the world and the relevance of Iran is relatively small compared to many. I guess the Camp David Accords, establishing trade/diplomatic relations with China, SALT II treaty, are all accomplishments that went down the drain b.c some crazy towel heads pissed off at the totalitarian leader we installed in Iran kidnapped 52 hostages (some were CIA agents conducting intelligence) for 444 days.

Quote :

"we need to ignore all the literature and studies saying that torture doesn't really work."

who here is actually arguing that torturing does not work??? I am sure King Edward I of england could give a seminar on the effectiveness of torture or Stalin. Torture "works" but is it right or humane???

NO

Why do you think we have shit in the constitution about torture along with cruel and unusual punishment. I mean I am sure it would help the police if they could torture the guy caught smoking a joint behind food lion into ratting out his supplier.....

Anyone supporting the use of torture is fundamentally un-American and should hang a swastika flag in their bedroom.

[Edited on October 11, 2007 at 1:31 PM. Reason : l]

10/11/2007 1:27:04 PM

Quote :

"who here is actually arguing that torturing does not work??? I am sure King Edward I of england could give a seminar on the effectiveness of torture or Stalin. Torture "works" but is it right or humane???"

Are you kidding? I mean, if you capture a guy and skip all the normal interrogation first, yea, I suppose it does "work", if you ignore the fact that many people would have talked without it. Show some good proof that it works.

10/11/2007 1:38:01 PM

hypothetically if a terror suspect might know where a nuclear bomb is planted in new york city, i don't know how anybody but the most pure pacifists wouldnt advocate a little roughing up in order to potentially save the lives of 10 million people

10/11/2007 1:40:05 PM

^^Hell, aside from some half baked plot in NYC, it doesn't even seem like the terrorists are after us at the moment.


[Edited on October 11, 2007 at 1:40 PM. Reason : dfa]

10/11/2007 1:40:13 PM

I thought MSNBC leaned left? They have had Cheney's wife on and now Pat Buchanan on tearing Carter up.

And now someone from the W. Post.

10/11/2007 1:44:58 PM

Quote :

"hypothetically if a terror suspect might know where a nuclear bomb is planted in new york city, i don't know how anybody but the most pure pacifists wouldnt advocate a little roughing up in order to potentially save the lives of 10 million people"

Except it doesn't work, so why use it?

10/11/2007 1:46:43 PM

saying it doesnt work (implying it never works) is just as ignorant and flat out incorrect is saying it always works

and oh yeah...IF IT COULD SAVE 10,000,000 AMERICAN LIVES, USE IT.

[Edited on October 11, 2007 at 1:47 PM. Reason : .]

10/11/2007 1:47:26 PM

Quote :

"I mean, if you capture a guy and skip all the normal interrogation first, yea, I suppose it does "work", if you ignore the fact that many people would have talked without it."

you lost me bud........

Quote :

"Show some good proof that it works."

I am sure that if the CIA tied you down to a chair, used pliers to rip your fingernails out, dunked you in water repeatedly for 5 hours pulling you up each time just before you pass out from oxygen deprivation, good ole fashioned roughing up with a baseball bat, then put you in a 120 degree hotbox in isolation with barely enough room to stand, we could get you to admit to raping little boys for the last 5 years.

Chance must be like Jabba the Hutt. "Your jedi mind tricks will not work on me Luke Skywalker" hahahaha

[Edited on October 11, 2007 at 1:49 PM. Reason : l]

10/11/2007 1:48:39 PM

In which case the torture didn't work since I haven't raped them.

Quote :

"saying it doesnt work (implying it never works) is just as ignorant and flat out incorrect is saying it always works and oh yeah...IF IT COULD SAVE 10,000,000 AMERICAN LIVES, USE IT."

Oh...I got it. If we torture EVERYONE, then it will have worked at least some of the time. Which is exactly part of the problems with torture.

10/11/2007 1:50:31 PM

Theres a nuclear bomb hidden in NYC...planted there by a sleeper cell operating inside our own country...the details of the attack are only known to the cell members and some of their cohorts back in the Middle East...our intelligence gets word that there is a nuclear device inside of the United States and that terrorists control it and are planning on blowing it up sometime soon...you capture one of the sleeper cell terrorists...one of the few people in the world who knows the details of the attack, location of the bomb, etc

do you do whatever is called for in order to save 10 million american lives? or do you not lay a finger on the terrorist because torturing would be stooping to their level...even though you're pretty much willing to accept losing 10 million American lives instead of beating up one terrorist

10/11/2007 1:57:47 PM

i hope that everyone would choose to beat the shit out of the guy to save 10 million of any people

10/11/2007 2:01:17 PM

A guy on thewolfweb supposedly has knowledge that a kid down the street from him knows some people at Cary High School that had said something about an attack on Cary High School was imminent and that several people would die.

Do you arrest that guy on the wolfweb and torture him when he doesn't give you the information to save a couple of lives?


Your scenario doesn't mean dick to the discussion (it doesn't even make for a good movie). If we live in a country where such scenarios can't be prevented (and they can, long before the torture stage is needed), then we're fucked anyway.

10/11/2007 2:07:48 PM

just when i thought i had heard all of the worst analogies imaginable, you come with that garbage

comparing national security intelligence and 10 million american lives to hearsay on a website about a school shooting and "a couple of lives"

i think its pretty clear that Chance would rather have 10 million americans die

10/11/2007 2:11:48 PM

ad hom

10/11/2007 2:13:04 PM

cop out

10/11/2007 2:14:13 PM

i mean that was the whole point of that argument right? someone disagrees with your logic and you say they want 10 million americans dead.

but let's be clear here: there is a marked difference between a specific eminent threat to american civilians and what is likely going on in gitmo and other american-run facilities right now.

10/11/2007 2:16:04 PM

so you agree that in my scenario, torture would be justified

or you can harp over the last line of ^^^^thatpost which is obviously pretty meaningless to the overall discussion

10/11/2007 2:19:26 PM

Quote :

"just when i thought i had heard all of the worst analogies imaginable, you come with that garbage"

Did you even comprehend what I wrote.

I just lauded our country such that the movie plot scenario you concoctedcopied from somewhere will never be a real scenario, so why should it enter the discussion about torture policy?

And the best you could do was mis-characterize my position yet again.


How about gain some originality and some substance to your postings, because they are a waste of electrons to this day, years after we had the misfortune of you discovering TSB.

10/11/2007 2:21:08 PM

i'm not gonna feed the troll because there is absolutely no fucking way you're actually this retarded

10/11/2007 2:21:59 PM

ad hom

10/11/2007 2:22:45 PM

hey look who else is trolling

10/11/2007 2:23:44 PM