What would you get?

That's my price range, but I would like to stay towards the bottom of it...

And this is whats important to me (in order of priority):
1) Reliability (though if i buy new/newish this is slightly less of a concern)
2) Comfort (aka I'd rather have an wrx than an evo)
3) Performance - I want it to be pretty damn fast - Handling/Acceleration are equally important
4) Value

4 Doors would be nice, 4 seats are required

Ideas?

9/20/2007 4:13:09 PM

good thing ive never seen a post like this on tww.

9/20/2007 4:16:27 PM

shut the fuck up

9/20/2007 4:17:48 PM

if it were me.. S4

[Edited on September 20, 2007 at 4:23 PM. Reason : or maybe M3]

9/20/2007 4:22:44 PM

one of those new body style TLs.

its honda powR

look into a 350Z. im sure you can find one on the high side of your limit.


so you pretty much want something japanese.

9/20/2007 4:23:03 PM

'01-02 E46 M3

9/20/2007 4:28:13 PM

05 GTO

9/20/2007 4:38:43 PM

^^^

Quote :

"4 seats are required"

if jap car, get used:

infiniti g35 (coupe or sedan)
lexus is300 (or a used new gen is250)
wrx sti
altima 3.5
maxima
mazda 6 (6 cyl)
mazdaspeed 6
mazdaspeed 3 (current one)

choose the "pretty damn fast" one from the list!


[Edited on September 20, 2007 at 4:42 PM. Reason : ]

9/20/2007 4:40:44 PM

buy my 540i and save $15k

9/20/2007 4:44:23 PM

^ hell yeah

would someone be stupid to buy a used jap car with 25% the performance of the 540i for 20-25K, when they could get ^ for 10K?

or would they be wise, myabe because the 540i isn't as reliable?

(i am asking... not implying anything)

9/20/2007 4:53:01 PM

lexus is

9/20/2007 5:05:22 PM

probably a '95 Defender 90

[Edited on September 20, 2007 at 5:53 PM. Reason : .]

9/20/2007 5:53:15 PM

i like the new altima but i dont think i could ever bring myself to own a nissan

9/20/2007 7:04:49 PM

25k...


legacy gt
fast,
incognito
the wrx mods bolt up
comfy
leather
awd

9/20/2007 7:06:55 PM

Quote :

"2) Comfort (aka I'd rather have an wrx than an evo)"

huh? what makes a WRX more comfortable than an Evo?




from your criteria, strictly speaking, an E46 M3 or an Evo are pretty much the cars to beat, depending on how you weight different factors (if it's a performance question, the Evo is the answer...but the M3 is a sweet, sweet ride, too. I had an E46 330ci with the sport suspension...i won't dwell on comparing the two...you probably know which one you'd prefer).

Quote :

"look into a 350Z."

not a 4-seater...and an S2000 is a way better sports car, in my opinion...and an Evo will annihilate it from a performance standpoint, with 4 doors, 5 seats, AWD, and a real trunk.

you could go for a G35 sedan or coupe...but I'd prob prefer the BMW.

9/20/2007 7:22:28 PM

IF I would have had to get 4 seats, i would have definitely gotten an E46 M3

But BMW parts are not cheap...

remember, just because you can afford the car payment, you still have to maintain it / keep it on the road

9/20/2007 11:04:55 PM

evo

350z

legacy/wrx

Turbo'd foxbody ... what huh???!?!?

GTO would be fun



[Edited on September 20, 2007 at 11:21 PM. Reason : [Edited on September 20, 2007 at 11:21 PM. Reason : -]]

9/20/2007 11:08:59 PM

'98 Supra Twin Turbo or early 90's NSX.

You could find one in really great condition in that price range

9/20/2007 11:28:12 PM

02-03 f250/f350

9/20/2007 11:28:54 PM

^ completely pointless as a passenger vehicle, and fits almost none of his requirements.

9/20/2007 11:33:01 PM

You wont find an early 90's NSX that has 4 seats

reading is fundamental

9/21/2007 12:12:42 AM

A v6 camry.

9/21/2007 12:34:37 AM

^^and you won't find a Mk IV Supra that is a good value

or as reliable as a newer car


^yuck. camry is one of the worst driving cars i've ever encountered.

[Edited on September 21, 2007 at 12:35 AM. Reason : asdfasd]

9/21/2007 12:34:57 AM

Well, cheap reliable bland and has power. Handling I can't speak for, though my old boss drove his like a bit of a maniac when he had to and it fared pretty well.

I guess if you had to buy new in that range and wanted all those things you'd get an acura tsx or something.

9/21/2007 12:44:10 AM

or an M3...or at least a 330.

or an Evo if that wasn't enough performance for you.

[Edited on September 21, 2007 at 12:48 AM. Reason : Camry is a grocery getter. it has power and handles OK compared to, i don't know, a school bus]

9/21/2007 12:48:14 AM

get a used evo or sti

that's what your criteria is leaning towards anyway

9/21/2007 12:58:09 AM

e46 m3

9/21/2007 1:01:37 AM

^^^^^^^^ really? A crew cab has plenty of room for passengers. It's going to be much more reliable than any sedan (diesel engines will run much longer than gas engines). I find the seats to be plenty comfortable - they are adjustable so if they aren't comfortable its your fault. I'd say stock 520 ft/lbs is pretty good as far as performance. You definately get your money's worth in a full size pickup.

Granted he may not be looking for a pickup.. i'm just saying a 250 would infact meet all requirements.

9/21/2007 1:17:33 AM

all except pretty damned fast.

but gg anyway

9/21/2007 1:21:24 AM

diesel engine longevity and adequate space (with a crew cab) hardly mean that it fits any of those requirements, much less all of them. a 3/4 or 1 ton diesel pickup is a fucking godawful vehicle to use as primary transportation if you have no use for the towing and hauling capacity.

9/21/2007 1:27:15 AM

You make up for the "pretty damned fast" by taking shortcuts on the sidewalk to get out of traffic.

9/21/2007 1:27:56 AM

WRX is not more comfortable then a Evo. The Evo's seats are so much more comfortable...even more so than a STI (and yes i've owned/own both to compare)....oh and a Evo's ride is way more comfortable suspension wise then a STi.

Quote :

"^^^^^^^^ really? A crew cab has plenty of room for passengers. It's going to be much more reliable than any sedan (diesel engines will run much longer than gas engines). I find the seats to be plenty comfortable - they are adjustable so if they aren't comfortable its your fault. I'd say stock 520 ft/lbs is pretty good as far as performance. You definately get your money's worth in a full size pickup. Granted he may not be looking for a pickup.. i'm just saying a 250 would infact meet all requirements."

someone add this to the dumbass posts thread. How redneck can you be to say a FORD!!!! is more reliable than any sedan?????? WTF EL OH EL! And not to mention its a fucking pick-up truck!

[Edited on September 21, 2007 at 1:45 AM. Reason : fda]

9/21/2007 1:43:25 AM

never owned STi...driven both, though. I though the ride was comparable (not that anyone who buys either car gives even the slightest damn about that, of course). STi is a little better equipped and appointed on the interior, but again, if that's what you want, you're looking at the wrong car. Evo's seats are definitely better. STi sounds awesome and has nice power delivery...

but the Evo's steering and handling are far and away better, and if you want to spend a grand or so and throw a few bolt-ons at them, the Evo will absolutely blow the STi into the weeds.

I set out to buy an STi, and even after test driving them, I tried to justify the STi to myself (it isn't as ugly, it sounds great, has a less sucky interior, and i like the overall layout on paper)...but the Evo is simply a far better driving experience.






On the other end of the spectrum (or at least this narrow part of the automotive spectrum, the part constrained by his 5 wants/needs), the E46 is a sweet ride. I had a 330ci with 5spd and sport package that I sold to buy my Evo. For the car afficionado who appreciates performace, I can't imagine a much better car (and certainly not for what I paid for it). It isn't the ace at anything, but it's the jack of EVERYTHING. I mean, it is really, really a sweet ride...and the M3 would just amplify the strengths noticeably (i've only driven an E36 M3...never an E46, although i've driven a shit ton of other BMWs).

ultimately, though, the E46 is an arguably unbeatable machine for the car afficionado who appreciates performance. It is not, however, the solution for the fiending sports car zealot who worships at the alter of automotive performance (read: me). Even the M3 is not such a machine. The Evo is precisely that, and just happens to also have a real backseat, a real trunk, and AWD. If you've never driven one down a twisty road, there is no way you have a concept of what a brilliant, focused performance platform it is. It will redefine your concept of what constitutes a performance car...you will feel like Michael Schumacher--it'll make even a decent driver look awesome. Just recognize that it is focused and rather uncompromising, and sacrifices things like standard equipment, interior fit/finish/control feel (dials and switches, not driving controls) for the sake of cramming all of the performance tech into a car at such a relatively low price.

it is in no way uncomfortable, though.

[Edited on September 21, 2007 at 2:05 AM. Reason : asdfasd]

9/21/2007 2:01:05 AM

Eight E30s!!!

9/21/2007 9:59:34 AM

Quote :

" 1) Reliability (though if i buy new/newish this is slightly less of a concern) 2) Comfort (aka I'd rather have an wrx than an evo) 3) Performance - I want it to be pretty damn fast - Handling/Acceleration are equally important 4) Value "

Based on this criteria and the ordering of I wouldn't recommend either the WRX or the Evo. You should look at used BMW's.

9/21/2007 1:48:11 PM

wrx, is300, sc300, s2000, legacy, s14 240sx and $15,000 worth of parts for 300whp and nice options for "comfort", used vette, older m3

9/21/2007 2:57:54 PM

I like how you threw in an 240sx there

As if it remotely accomplishes the comfort and reliability tasks.

9/21/2007 3:05:50 PM

Quote :

"Even the M3 is not such a machine"

E46 M3 is very much a performance machine on par with STEvos. Suspension is calibrated even stiffer than EVO (which has considerable amount of body roll) and steering response is excellent. Stock for stock I would give EVO slight advantage on the track in the hands of novice drivers, but in experienced hands, M3 will shine on track just as much as EVo if not more. It is much more difficult to drive a RWD car at the limit than AWD STEvo, which is percieved by drivers as "more performance".

I personally had helluva hard time following few evos on tail of dragon (sandsanta, golovko, soundboy), simply because I cannot afford a mistake. Opposite lock is not second nature and takes time to perfect. Also, far less power than E46.


[Edited on September 21, 2007 at 3:22 PM. Reason : f]

9/21/2007 3:16:54 PM

Quote :

"The Evo is precisely that, and just happens to also have a real backseat"

even asian kids can't sit comfortably on that back seat. Any large framed person 6' or taller isn't going to sit comfortbly in the front seat of an Evo.

9/21/2007 3:20:18 PM

Quote :

"I like how you threw in an 240sx there As if it remotely accomplishes the comfort and reliability tasks. "

That's why I mentioned the leftover money. With that you could easily make it comfortable and reliable. Stock they are reliable and if not stock having a good tune will make then reliable no mattwer what engine - it all comes down to the tune. Comfort wise an s14 is pretty comfortable and with a little money you could easily swap in Z33 seats get a nice audio system and leather interior. It's not as lux as a lexus but it can be made to be a nice car, plus it's cheaper than all the others I listed.

9/21/2007 3:41:18 PM

Quote :

"even asian kids can't sit comfortably on that back seat. Any large framed person 6' or taller isn't going to sit comfortbly in the front seat of an Evo"

an Evo has the most back seat room from any 4 door sedan in its class. Its comparable to a 5 series BMW. Even the WRX/STi has 3" less leg room for back seat passengers. You also get excellent leg room in the front. I'm 6' tall and I don't mind riding in the back of SandSanta's Evo because I have plenty of leg room...only problem is i get car sick so i have to always ride upfront. (And no its not from SandSanta's driving )

9/21/2007 4:45:54 PM

who cares about leg room when the door starts curving in on you immediately? you might not notice because you're rail thin, but most people are incredibly uncomfortable in those cars.

also, are you talking about the newer model EVO's or a 3-5 year old version? I have sat in an EVO XIII and thought I wouldn't be able to get out of it, but they might have more room in the older versions. At the same time, you're not going to get the newer models for 25k.

9/21/2007 5:51:23 PM

Evo XIII? Damn, can i have that time machine?

9/21/2007 6:07:56 PM

Go buy a certified preowned acura off lease

Oh wait, you said pretty damn fast.....

9/21/2007 7:24:10 PM

Quote :

"s14 240sx and $15,000 worth of parts for 300whp and nice options for "comfort", used vette"

if you throw 15k in parts at a 240sx, you're a retard

and a vette does not have 4 seats

Quote :

"E46 M3 is very much a performance machine on par with STEvos. Suspension is calibrated even stiffer than EVO (which has considerable amount of body roll) and steering response is excellent. Stock for stock I would give EVO slight advantage on the track in the hands of novice drivers, but in experienced hands, M3 will shine on track just as much as EVo if not more."

I disagree. It's a capable performance car, but you're nuts if you think it's as performance focused as an Evo. Furthermore, the Evo IX is probably mod friendly to a greater extent than any other car on the road, and the power deficit compared to an M3 can be easily overcome for a paltry amount of money and trouble.

if you need numbers to back these assertions up, they're out there, and they favor the Evo.

Regardless, I'm not really even talking about lap times, etc (the only time a stopwatch is a good way to measure a car's fun factor is if you're racing)...I'm just saying that the Evo is a much more hardcore sporting machine than an M3, and if you need the numbers, they're there, and even if they weren't, you could make a IX absolutely knock an M3's dick in the dirt for $1000-1200 and an afternoon's work.

I'm also not hating on the M3--I'm a BMW fan, and the M3 is a fantastic automobile. If high performance is the question, though, the Evo is the answer.

Quote :

"who cares about leg room when the door starts curving in on you immediately? you might not notice because you're rail thin, but most people are incredibly uncomfortable in those cars."

never ridden in the back of my Evo, but it's pretty spacious...much bigger than the back of my E46 was. The front seats are probably uncomfortable to disgusting fatbodies, but I have no sympathy for them. I'm a relatively meaty dude, and I fit into the Recaro buckets just fine.

Quote :

" At the same time, you're not going to get the newer models for 25k."

dude, you can pick up a IX these days for $25k...much less the VIIIs you're talking about.

Quote :

"even asian kids can't sit comfortably on that back seat. Any large framed person 6' or taller isn't going to sit comfortbly in the front seat of an Evo."

bullshit--there is plenty of room (for this size of car, and compared to an E46) in both the front and rear. The only people who might be uncomfortable are those who are really wide. I'm pretty thick through the shoulders and lats, and I'm just fine--very few people other than fatties will be uncomfortable.

Quote :

"It is much more difficult to drive a RWD car at the limit than AWD STEvo, which is percieved by drivers as "more performance"."

This much is true. The Evo is far and away the easiest car I've ever seen to drive FAST. It's so easy that it completely masks (and maybe even rewards) some generally bad habits (i.e., if you're not on the gas, there's a good chance you're wrong...haha). I'm actually a little concerned about going back to something less forgiving (read: Lotus Elise long term, maybe S2000 shorter term).

My 330ci was pretty forgiving, too (compared to my S2000 or tweaked-out Miata), but nothing like the Evo.

Quote :

"I personally had helluva hard time following few evos on tail of dragon "

That road is much more suited to an Evo... in addition to being all but idiot proof, it has lightning quick steering, and the ability to accelerate really hard out of tight corners. There's also not really anywhere (maybe 2 short straights, but basically nothing) for the M3 to stretch its legs.



basically, the Evo is Jenna Jameson, the M3 is Jennifer Aniston. The Evo is Jason Bourne, the M3 is James Bond.

[Edited on September 21, 2007 at 7:30 PM. Reason : asfdadad]

[Edited on September 21, 2007 at 7:35 PM. Reason : asfdasfa]

9/21/2007 7:27:05 PM

Quote :

"If you had $20K-$25K to spend on a car......"

I would spend it on a car I already have.

9/21/2007 7:32:56 PM

It's a shame the m3 convertible is so fucking heavy.

I don't think I would be happy with another car that isn't a convertible.

I dont know how you did it duke1!one!111!!!!

9/21/2007 7:34:28 PM

well, partially for that reason, i'm torn on whether to keep the Evo and hot rod it, or sell it and buy another (stock) S2000. It wouldn't be a question if they were the same price, but i can have an S2000 for $10k+ less, which would free up all kinds of money for me to enjoy other toys and activities.

on the other hand, the opportunity to have an 11 second sedan with physics-defying handling and a backseat and a trunk is also a pretty attractive proposition...along with having AWD and a hardtop to mount a ski rack on, as I live by some pretty nice places to ski.

9/21/2007 7:38:43 PM

I think you will want to kill yourself if you go from an evo to an s2000.

9/21/2007 7:40:27 PM

Well, remember I owned an S2000 (albeit one with an aftercooled supercharged and exhaust, and huge--but lightweight--wheels and tires). I've driven a couple of stock ones (both before and after the mid-life updates to the car).

Stock for stock, the Evo will crush it, performance-wise (and I don't just mean acceleration). The warranty and Camry-like practicality are also a big plus, along with the AWD for skiing this winter. If you start modding, the Evo will only crush it exponentially more per dollar spent. It also has a much better stereo (mine has the factory Infinity), HID lights, etc.

The only place the S2000 wins in any numbers game is price...you can get an '02 or so for ohh, $15,000ish...I could sell my Evo for at least $12k more than that...probably $13k. The S2000 also gets better gas mileage, and doesn't cost a small fortune in tire replacement (although still relatively bad).

However, the S2000 is a convertable (big plus in my book, although the weather here north of Seattle is prob gonna suck pretty often for the next 4-6 months). It's also a lot smaller (still bigger, heavier, and softer than I'd prefer, but substantially smaller than the Evo). It looks a lot better, and the interior is much nicer, both in look and feel. Also, my Dad would probably take it off my hands and cover the payments (or at least most of them) during times that I'm deployed, once I get stationed back in NC next summer. He would have no interest in the Evo. All in all, the S2000 scores points on the intangibles, and is just generally a lot of fun to drive and own.

I'm leaning towards keeping the Evo, but a part of me wants to sell it and get another S2000.

[Edited on September 21, 2007 at 7:51 PM. Reason : original S2000 had the best shifter i've ever seen, and in '02 they made it even better!]

9/21/2007 7:50:47 PM