Quote :

"WASHINGTON -- -- The Bush administration's war on terrorism suffered another legal setback Thursday when a federal judge struck down part of the revised USA Patriot Act. U.S. District Judge Victor Marrero (Manhattan) ruled that investigators eventually must get a court's approval when ordering Internet providers and phone companies to turn over records without telling customers. The ruling suggests that despite Congress' attempts to put the Patriot Act on firmer constitutional ground, it still faces significant legal challenges. If upheld on appeal, Marrero's decision could mean major new oversight of the FBI's use of a controversial investigative technique. In the six years since the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, the bureau has issued thousands of national security letters to build counter-terrorism and counterintelligence cases. The letters have become a popular tool at the bureau because they do not require court approval, and recipients have been prohibited from telling customers that their data have been requested by authorities. The Justice Department is expected to vigorously challenge Thursday's decision."

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-patriot7sep07,0,7984344.story?coll=la-home-center

The article goes on to say that the FBI's tracking of the letters that they send out is incredibly disorganized, and they're not even sure how many letters they send out in a year....

Step in the right direction in my opinion.....

9/7/2007 11:13:43 AM

hmm...weren't u lot bashing google and yahoo for following China's 'Patriot Act'

Quote :

"U.S. District Judge Victor Marrero (Manhattan) ruled that investigators eventually?? must get a court's approval when ordering Internet providers and phone companies to turn over records without telling customers."

9/7/2007 11:17:34 AM

Quote :

"hmm...weren't u lot bashing google"

??

And its better than nothing... As it stands now, they don't ever have to notify or get approval.

9/7/2007 11:40:07 AM

Quote :

"The Bush administration's war on terrorism suffered another legal setback"

ummm... that's a bit of a stretch.
i mean, what Bush wants to do in his supposed war on terrorism might be hindered a bit now.

but the actual war on terrorism? nah, shouldn't be a problem

9/7/2007 12:02:59 PM

Bush used the oldest trick in the book. Using an outsider attack (rather it be from a terrorist act or legit nation) and/or perceived threat into scaring and/or rallying the people behind a cause in order to allow the gov't to increase its power and perform actions that otherwise would not be tolerated by the populace.

Leaders of the US have done this on several known occasions i.e start of US Mexican war in the 1840's, explosion of the US Maine, etc

Hell this was a favorite of Julius Caesar back in the old roman days

9/7/2007 12:08:11 PM

Yeah, anything you have to call the Patriot Act - implying that if you are opposed to it, you're not a patriot - is suspect.

9/7/2007 12:23:58 PM

Quote :

"hmm...weren't u lot bashing google and yahoo for following China's 'Patriot Act'"

Completely fucking different.

9/7/2007 1:05:47 PM

^completely fucking not. Its the exact same thing. You are violating civil rights of the innocent by sending them to Gitmo. Chinese are doing the same thing with their own people. Its really not different at all.

9/7/2007 2:20:50 PM

Quote :

"^completely fucking not. Its the exact same thing. You are violating civil rights of the innocent by sending them to Gitmo. Chinese are doing the same thing with their own people. Its really not different at all."

are you purposefully this obtuse? What does gitmo have to do with this? What does the right to free speech have to do with this?

Are you still completely blinded by your America = evil, everyone else = good that you cannot even make a proper analogy?

Jesus Christ, Mark, stick to the ice dancing and leave the thinking to people who have brains.

9/7/2007 2:53:58 PM

WTF are you talking about? Ice dancing?

You are the one thats obtuse. If you can't see how China demanding information on certain users from Google and Yahoo is no different then the Patriot Act that allows the US Gov. to demand information on users WITHOUT a court order. Explain to me where the difference is?

citizens of China that are outspoken AGAINST the government, reported by others as terrorists/conspiring against gov. officials. check.

citizens of the US that are outspoken AGAINST the government. reported by others as terrorists/conspiring against gov. officials. check.

Or are you saying that anyone who thinks America is in the wrong is an idiot and a terrorist?

9/7/2007 3:22:52 PM

not to get off on a tangent, but if we hypothetically shut down Gitmo, where would we send all the prisoners? No other countries want them. I guess the prisoners who we did release and then later captured on the battlefield in Afghanistan could go back to Afghanistan? Maybe we should just execute them all

also http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/09/05/ap4082477.html

Wiretapping prevents terrorist attack...the most important freedom is the right to life

9/7/2007 3:23:19 PM

except that the vast majority there are innocent and the only crime they committed was being Arab and being in Afghan. at the time of the invasion.

[Edited on September 7, 2007 at 3:24 PM. Reason : .]

9/7/2007 3:24:35 PM

Quote :

"the vast majority there are innocent"

i take it you're just making a wild guess...unless you want to attempt to prove it

9/7/2007 3:25:34 PM

prove it? its already been proven. Search google or read a book.

9/7/2007 3:27:04 PM

Everything you can google is a fact

9/7/2007 3:27:58 PM

wow....nvm...go smoke a blunt or something.

9/7/2007 3:29:32 PM

way to change the subject when you get completely pwnt

9/7/2007 3:31:57 PM

wow....nvm...go smoke a blunt or something.

9/7/2007 3:33:02 PM

you sure are doing a great job of arguing your side of the topic!

also it looks to me like there were 5 prisoners who were held after being found innocent...hardly the "vast majority"

http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=1997083&page=1

9/7/2007 3:38:11 PM

Quote :

"WTF are you talking about? Ice dancing?"

Sorry, figure skating

Quote :

"You are the one thats obtuse. If you can't see how China demanding information on certain users from Google and Yahoo is no different then the Patriot Act that allows the US Gov. to demand information on users WITHOUT a court order. Explain to me where the difference is?"

First of all, that aspect of the patriot act was ruled unconstitutional. They can't do it anymore. Likewise, what the FBI was interested in is not the same as someone getting arrested for creating a webpage about Chairman Mao being a homocidal douchebag.

Quote :

"citizens of China that are outspoken AGAINST the government, reported by others as terrorists/conspiring against gov. officials. check."

True

Quote :

"citizens of the US that are outspoken AGAINST the government. reported by others as terrorists/conspiring against gov. officials. check."

untrue

Quote :

"Or are you saying that anyone who thinks America is in the wrong is an idiot and a terrorist?"

No, I'm saying you are an idiot. Think it through logically, if your statements about the US Government doing the same thing as the Chinese government are true, you'd be in jail right now.

Additionally, your criticism of America is the most hypocritical piece of bullshit I've had the misery of reading. You live comfortably in America because of the largess of your family, exploit everything America has to offer than cry about how evil Americans are, while you are engaging in the same actions as those Americans you despise.

9/7/2007 7:59:50 PM

Quote :

"First of all, that aspect of the patriot act was ruled unconstitutional. They can't do it anymore. Likewise, what the FBI was interested in is not the same as someone getting arrested for creating a webpage about Chairman Mao being a homocidal douchebag."

well, not really. the decision is stayed until the DOJ has a chance to appeal. so we'll see what the USSC has to say about it.

9/8/2007 1:35:35 AM