http://www.motortrend.com/features/112_0706_americas_best_handling_car/index.html

8/9/2007 3:50:12 AM

Here is America's best handling car, and perhaps the world's:

Noble M400 Returns as Rossion Q1 (US)

http://www.rossioncars.com

Make sure to check out the colors: http://www.rossioncars.com/pages/models/models_q_one_colors_ad_green.html

Rebodied and reworked, available for 90K in the US, or the chassis for 69K. Looks very much like the sexy Noble M15 now. Phreaking gorgeous!

Biggest bang for the buck, in modern automotive history? Enzo-rivalling performance for 1/7th the cost.

Quote :

"7.9.2007 – Press Release ROSSION AUTOMOTIVE ANNOUNCES WORLD DEBUT OF THRILLING NEW ROSSION Q1 Rossion Q1 Redefines Supercar Landscape Offering Ultimate Performance in Luxurious Road Car, Perfectly Suited for Street or Track CINCINNATI, OH (July 9, 2007) – Rossion Automotive proudly announces the worldwide debut of their new supercar, the Rossion Q1. The move into production for the Rossion Q1 began after 1G Racing acquired both the intellectual and design rights for the Noble M400 and M12 platforms earlier this year in February. While further stressing the performance aspects that made Noble platforms such a startling success, the new Rossion Q1 incorporates dramatic design and a comfortably refined interior to create a versatile supercar that mesmerizes on the road as easily as on the track. “We are extremely proud to launch the Rossion brand with the introduction of the new Q1,” says Rossion Automotive Vice President Dean Rosen. “The Q1 is about achieving the very highest possible levels of performance and blending them with luxurious touches traditionally absent from cars of this caliber.” The Rossion Q1 is for the enthusiast looking for a refined road car that pushes the limits of performance in every way.” The Q1 offers one of the most superb driving experiences available with a wide array of the highest quality comforts with available options including satellite navigation, power mirrors, hand-stitched sumptuous interiors, and high-grade sound system. The sensuously-styled body covers the fiery power of the Q1 with a suggested drive train offering a visceral 450-horspower and 400 ft. lbs. torque. To maximize performance, the mid-mounted engine is set into a feather-light frame offering a slim total weight of under 2,500 lb. With 0-60 mph times posting an ethereal 3.2 seconds, a daunting 11.4 second quarter mile time with well over 1G of lateral track skid pad, and a blisteringly fast top speed of 185 mph, the Rossion Q1 will offer even the most accomplished drivers a truly world class driving experience. Available with one of the most versatile high-performance packages available today as a component vehicle, the Rossion Q1 will be hand built in limited numbers at the same 380,000 square foot production facility the M400 was produced. The Rossion Q1 chassis will have a base price just under $69,000 (U.S.) minus drivetrain. Owner completed cost with suggested drivetrain Base price $90,700. Initial orders are now being accepted for the Q1 with first deliveries set for later this year. About Rossion Automotive Based in Cincinnati, Ohio, Rossion Automotive is the distributor of high-performance component cars including the new Rossion Q1. For more information on Rossion vehicles, please visit http://www.rossioncars.com or call 866-612-6625 (International 513-738-0828)."

The best colors:

8/9/2007 5:58:46 AM

just by seeing the pics....
GT3 then...
im gonna say the lotus.



[Edited on August 9, 2007 at 8:13 AM. Reason : ok, i didnt see the GT3 in the pic ]

if im reading correctly, it says the EVO camein second and the lotus in third...

cue the EVO lovers coming in here thinking they've got the [second] best car in the land

[Edited on August 9, 2007 at 8:19 AM. Reason : ]

8/9/2007 8:11:57 AM

I think the Cayman actually came in second.

8/9/2007 8:43:20 AM

nga plz...

aint no way

8/9/2007 9:32:49 AM

8/9/2007 10:05:54 AM

i rode around VIR in an Elise w/ the Lotus road test engineer. It was a pretty damn wild ride. craaaazy lateral grip for street tires. that whole 2000lb thing.. yeh it works

8/9/2007 10:48:28 AM

i just want a lotus. the full out track turblow one.
$90K or however it is aint no thang.

ill just run it into a wall to start things off

[Edited on August 9, 2007 at 11:05 AM. Reason : i knew the cayman was a good car. didnt know it was that good.]

8/9/2007 11:04:31 AM

yeah the cayman had all the experts excited when it came out, and a lot of them predicted it would handle better than the 911.

which makes sense as it is smaller and lighter.

and every test since it came out confirms that.

8/9/2007 11:09:19 AM

They forgot the MR2

8/9/2007 11:09:33 AM

Quote :

"if im reading correctly, it says the EVO camein second and the lotus in third... cue the EVO lovers coming in here thinking they've got the [second] best car in the land "

Nope the lotus 3rd, EVO 4th.

I do wish they had tested the Elise instead or in addition to the Exige. The exige lost so many points because of its harsh ride and fear of losing control at the fringe, which are both because it's the track version of the car.

8/9/2007 11:18:05 AM

Quote :

" if im reading correctly, it says the EVO camein second and the lotus in third... cue the EVO lovers coming in here thinking they've got the [second] best car in the land "

LOL. well i guess that helps my brother's odds of getting into dental school

8/9/2007 11:29:55 AM

haha.. i just went to page 8, and saw the GT3 was top dogg, then the next car was the EVO. i didnt bother really reading.

8/9/2007 12:26:20 PM

It's Motor Trend. The opinion of that rag is virtually meaningless.

8/9/2007 1:54:46 PM

motortrend's opinion holds as much credit as hooker's blood at a blood drive.

you people that read that and think anything they say is remotely true are total retards.

8/10/2007 1:21:08 PM

Quote :

"haha.. i just went to page 8, and saw the GT3 was top dogg, then the next car was the EVO. i didnt bother really reading. "

Apparently you can't read, either the article or the thread then.

And I love how everyone ALWAYS gets high and mighty over any mainstream opinion piece. Because I'm sure all of you have been driving high end sports cars for decades and have professional journalism backgrounds.

Oh wait, lets replace high end sports cars with old track beaters, and years of journalism with insert completely unrelated field here ___________

I'm not saying they are the gospel truth, no one is, but don't be stupid.

8/10/2007 1:32:38 PM

It was a pretty good article, way above MT's typical attempts. For sheer variety of numbers, that was an impressive test. Quantifying handling is a very difficult thing, especially from the driver's point of view, when a car with dramatically less grip might be considered more fun and therefore "better handling." It really is an opinion piece though. There is little question that the z06 would demolish pretty much everything in that test around most tracks, but it didn't do so well... MT just tried to answer the unanswerable: "which variable should be optimized to make the best handling car?"

Obviously excluding ride quality puts the exige ahead of the cayman... etc.

8/10/2007 2:35:45 PM

Quote :

" Apparently you can't read, either the article or the thread then."

nga plz.

the results werent posted in this thread up until a few posts up, where that chart is..

in the article, on the last page after all that blah blah about the GT3, the next car mentioned is the EVO. i was skimming and saw second place then a few words later the word EVO.

i dont read articles like that because i already know the best handling car in the land.

the all mighty Single Cam Civic.

8/10/2007 4:14:30 PM

Posting in an Evo thread.

8/10/2007 5:55:41 PM

beat it terk

8/10/2007 6:53:34 PM

bttt

11/19/2007 5:20:12 PM

I thought this thread was about my Dodge Ram.

11/19/2007 5:25:28 PM

^

nope it was about

Quote :

"the all mighty Single Cam Civic. "

11/19/2007 6:20:08 PM

my lifted swaybar-free jeep ?

11/19/2007 6:27:49 PM

i drove a cayman the other day.

what a nice car. i'd seriously consider getting one. rides really well, handles like a dream.

goes where you point it.

11/19/2007 6:29:03 PM

it's not bad but im personally going to go with the 911 gt3

11/19/2007 6:40:42 PM

of course the GT3 handles better than the Cayman... but hello big price difference!

a friend has a cayman S and he took me for a ride. accelerated to 95 mph real fast, went around a round about at 50 mph, accelerated to 75 mph, then braked with full force to a complete stop.

DAMN.

11/19/2007 6:52:55 PM

i was obviously joking

11/19/2007 7:30:49 PM

Quote :

"the all mighty Single Cam Civic."

11/19/2007 10:49:19 PM

this thread is about quad-turboed Evo's isn't it?

11/19/2007 10:57:31 PM

My desire of material wealth is driven mostly by the desire to own a GT3. I've never driven a car that's more of what I want before. It really is THAT good. The fact that it's rather unforgiving to drive, is just icing on the cake.
Ahmet

11/19/2007 11:04:59 PM

How well do y'all think an FD chassis RX-7 would've done against these cars, especially the Evo and S2000 (which are two that I have extensive seat time in, and also two that aren't prohibitively expensive)?


I'm developing a boner for an LSx swap into something...FD, Miata, and maybe even a Z3 all are potential ideas I've had.

I mean, I'm just kicking around the idea--not gonna pull the trigger on ANYTHING until I get to NC in the summer, and maybe sometime after that (depending on when it looks like I'll get deployed).

11/20/2007 12:28:57 AM

Quote :

"How well do y'all think an FD chassis RX-7 would've done against these cars"

The engine would have blown up before the end of testing.

11/20/2007 12:34:34 AM

read the rest of the post

[Edited on November 20, 2007 at 12:40 AM. Reason : dbl post]

11/20/2007 12:34:47 AM

They didn't even change the tires on those cars to make sure the tests were done straight from the manufacturer, an LSx in an FD chassis wasn't exactly a dealer option...

[Edited on November 20, 2007 at 12:45 AM. Reason : why did you have to go and ruin it?]

11/20/2007 12:39:28 AM

'87 Thunderbird TurboCoupe.

11/20/2007 12:42:37 AM

11/20/2007 12:46:07 AM

11/20/2007 12:49:01 AM

I've driven an S2Ks several times in anger, and have a lot of seat time in EVOs as well. I don't care what this magazine says, there's no comparison. Of all the cars listed, I think there's the two Porsches, and then there's the Lotus, then there's everything else.

I think the EVO's a lot of fun in that I am going fast near the -very high- limits of this cool techno sedan sort of way, but it's not cool in the "I am controlling this fast moving vehicle near it's crisp limits, playing around with understeer/oversteer using small inputs" sort of way. The S2K, though a fine vehicle, I could never warm up to it. The buzzy/intrusive note of the gutless engine... I appreciate it as a car, it's so right with the high revving motor and great suspension and all, yet just not me. Let me work this in, the FD feels awesome when they run, but then you have to look at the sagging plastics, the ever breaking brackets/interior bits, and generally live with the "lightweight" japanese-ness of it (which I know you don't mind, but this is my opinion).

Cayman/cayman S are too soft for me, the Lotus is too much like a kit car/death trap. 911/gt3 is just right. Oh god, and the engine tone...
Ahmet

11/20/2007 12:50:51 AM

Evo >>> GT3 >>> everything else.

11/20/2007 1:09:55 AM

I know what you mean about the Evo, and I imagine it's an even greater consideration on the track. It's nasty fast (in the twisties), and it's super easy to drive the shit out of it, but sometimes it's almost TOO easy...Flick the wheel, hammer the throttle, hang on, grab the next gear, rinse and repeat. Yawn. 85 mph around a 35 mph corner? Ho-hum. I'll do it at 70 in the rain--while changing stations on the stereo. Aim it where you wanna go and stomp it to WOT, and just make sure no cops are around to watch you, because they might think you're pushing the envelope...which I suppose you are, but the Evo makes it all but automated.

Quote :

"Let me work this in, the FD feels awesome when they run, but then you have to look at the sagging plastics, the ever breaking brackets/interior bits, and generally live with the "lightweight" japanese-ness of it (which I know you don't mind, but this is my opinion)."

...and that's where the LSx would come in--it would always run (and move out with serious authority, at that). The "lightweight japanese-ness" of it is a plus in my book--I like the lightweight, go-kartish, slot-car feel.

I know they were the shit in 1995--I just wonder how they stack up against some of the better options with 10 years more automotive evolution (so to speak) to benefit from.

11/20/2007 1:13:43 AM

Quote :

"I know what you mean about the Evo, and I imagine it's an even greater consideration on the track. It's nasty fast (in the twisties), and it's super easy to drive the shit out of it, but sometimes it's almost TOO easy...Flick the wheel, hammer the throttle, hang on, grab the next gear, rinse and repeat. Yawn. 85 mph around a 35 mph corner? Ho-hum. I'll do it at 70 in the rain--while changing stations on the stereo. Aim it where you wanna go and stomp it to WOT, and just make sure no cops are around to watch you, because they might think you're pushing the envelope...which I suppose you are, but the Evo makes it all but automated."

but just like any car, drive the Evo smoothly and well and you will be that much faster than the "yeeeehawww" evo drivers.

11/20/2007 1:15:51 AM

more or less, but you know as well as I that the car will let you get away with almost anything.

and if you don't nail your entry speed (hit it on the slow side), you can usually just stomp on it and get that speed back, up to the point that you run out of power to overcome what you're scrubbing off with ugly slip angles. it squirms around a little, but keeps right on doing what it's doing.

11/20/2007 1:22:49 AM

Quote :

"The S2K, though a fine vehicle, I could never warm up to it. The buzzy/intrusive note of the gutless engine... I appreciate it as a car, it's so right with the high revving motor and great suspension and all, yet just not me."

I had never riden in the passenger seat with the top up while someone drove the s2000 until ahmet did. I've got to say it sounds like its going to blow up the entire time. If it were not for 100k / 2012 warranty I dont know if i would have the faith i should..... It obviously wasnt made to compete with most of the cars listed in either of youre arguements or motortrends year old article. I suppose if you went on MSRP alone it is in the evo/sti price bracket but if you pay MSRP for an 8 year old car design youre an absolute moron.

11/20/2007 1:24:06 AM

Quote :

"more or less, but you know as well as I that the car will let you get away with almost anything. and if you don't nail your entry speed (hit it on the slow side), you can usually just stomp on it and get that speed back, up to the point that you run out of power to overcome what you're scrubbing off with ugly slip angles. it squirms around a little, but keeps right on doing what it's doing."

my point isnt that...its if you avoid doing everything you just mentioned you will be significantly faster. Just because there are a lot of bad evo drivers doesn't make it a bad car.

11/20/2007 1:41:57 AM

oh no, i think it's a phenomenal car--the most impressive thing I've ever driven in certain respects. why do you think i bought one??!!

and i will admit to hamfisting mine around some on the streets--i'm not about to try to nail entry speeds on a public road with no run-off...

but i'm not above throwing it into the corner at 8.5 tenths, then wringing it out to a 9.8 tenth pace once I know I have it made, even if that isn't the optimal way to do it on a closed course.


and while i haven't managed to track mine ( ), there's no way it requires or rewards the sort of finesse that most other performance cars do. That isn't knocking the Evo--in fact, it's really kinda backhanded praise.

11/20/2007 2:07:04 AM

11/20/2007 4:27:12 AM

you know whats fun.

a supercharged S2K at its limits

sounds like the belt will rip off.

11/20/2007 9:32:17 AM

I really enjoy driving M3s, they're one of the best handling cars I've been around. Duke, you should come to the Chin event at VIR (December 8-9) if you can. I'll give you some hot laps and can probably hook you up with a few in a GT3 +an early 911 for more flavor (PM me). Have you driven a newer 911, if not, you should. It's precise with high limits, but you have to be a decent driver to push the car. Add in that it was engineered as a complete package, with proper brakes, chasis geometry, etc. from day one. An early 996 is not expensive and unlike a project, pay -->drive. Do NOT however, go near a GT3. After spending countless hours in/around them on track, I am finding it hard to overcome the urge to buy one. A 600hp Corvette pales in comparison for a multitude of reasons... I'm not the only one here considering one, perhaps TWW will start calling us Porsche fan boys.

I want.

As for the EVO, yes driving it properly gets you a faster lap time, but not by much. It seems like an absolute garbage execution of a turn vs. a proper one nets you a barely lower exit speed. A "lesser" car would loose significant momentum, or worse. Fun to be around none the less, impressive a car that capable and hard core, that much of a "driver's car" came from Mitsubishi, in the form of a modified lancer. What's funny really is that when I first started instructing, I would hear other instructors warn of students in e36 M3s, how a mediocre driver can seem to be much better, because the car masks their mistakes. Now they warn about EVOs, how times change...
Ahmet

[Edited on November 20, 2007 at 10:04 AM. Reason : .]

11/20/2007 10:02:55 AM

well maybe you really should get that evo. It might decrease the rate in which you go off track in a forgiving E36 M3

11/20/2007 10:09:41 AM