http://www.waxahachiedailylight.com/articles/2007/05/20/dailylight/news/01-05-20-taser.txt

Quote :

" Man calls for EMS, gets police Tasers By JOANN LIVINGSTON Daily Light Managing Editor Posted: Saturday, May 19, 2007 8:13 PM CDT Waxahachie resident Allen Nelms says a call to 911 to get medical attention for his diabetic seizure got him Tasered by police instead. He said he still has no answer as to why police broke down his door with their guns drawn before shooting him multiple times with a Taser as he lay in bed. “One of the officers said I ‘lunged’ at him. I asked him, ‘How can I lunge at you from my back and on my bed?’ ” Nelms said in an interview with the Daily Light. All he’s received, he said, is a one-paragraph statement from police that indicates the department concluded an investigation into his allegation of excessive force in less than five days, with Assistant Chief Brett Colston saying the officers operated within policy guidelines. The 52-year-old partially disabled man - who also suffers from rheumatoid arthritis - was having a diabetic seizure during the early morning hours of April 28 when his girlfriend, Josie Edwards, called 911 to request paramedics. “I respect the law and police but on this day I was a shooting target for them when I needed help,” Nelms said in his May 3 written complaint to the police department. The couple’s statements indicate an officer came to the residence on Perry Avenue and inquired as to what was going on - and then called for backup. Nelms told the Daily Light that he was in his bed in the couple’s bedroom when officers burst in with their guns drawn and yelling at him to get on the floor. He said he told them he needed medical help, not the police, but officers continued yelling at him to get on the floor. He said he went to roll over to his right, with photographs indicating he was struck by Taser barbs on his left side, his back and his shoulder. He said he was handcuffed, with paramedics intervening when the officers began trying to yank the Taser barbs from his skin. Paramedics removed the Taser barbs and then checked his blood sugar, with officers then releasing him from the handcuffs. In her statement, Edwards, who has Lou Gehrig’s disease and is on oxygen, said an officer came to the door and asked her what was the matter before calling for backup and the paramedics. She said about six or seven police officers kicked the front door in and stormed the back bedroom where she said she could hear one telling Nelms to get on the floor. “Allen was shouting, ‘Please don’t do me like this. I just need help.’ Next thing I heard some ‘zing’ noise and Allen was shouting,” she wrote in her statement. “I asked what were they doing to him. One policeman replied, ‘We just took care of him.’ “After they did their shooting and laughing, they came out (of) the rooms. The paramedics had to pull out the Tasers,” she said. After Nelms was Tasered, Edwards said officers asked her what she was doing there, with Edwards telling them it was her home and she lived there. She said the officers then questioned her about what time Nelms came home and if he was drunk or on drugs, if he ever got into fights or if he had hit her. In her statement, Edwards said she told officers Nelms did none of that and that he was sickly. She also said she told the officers they had called for paramedics in the past because of his seizures. Nelms told the Daily Light he has never had a problem in calling for paramedics before, and there is no history of his becoming violent when he is having a diabetic seizure. Edwards noted the same in her statement, which was taken as part of Nelms’ complaint. “Of the 16 years that we (have) lived here and called for paramedics, police decide to come and take over and try to almost kill the man,” she said in her statement. “They never asked any questions (like) did he have a heart pacer, they just wanted to have fun by shooting Tasers and handcuffing the man after he was shot,” she said. Nelms said after he was checked over, the police and paramedics left. He was not transported, there was no arrest made nor charge filed. After his complaint was closed, Nelms said he was referred by a city council member to Waxahachie attorney Rodney Ramsey, who told the Daily Light he has filed notice with the city on Nelms’ behalf to preserve all documentation and evidence relating to the incident. “This police department has a bad history of disparate treatment on the east side,” Ramsey said. “They’re not treated fairly. They’re not treated justly. “I bet the police wouldn’t kick in a white man’s door on Spring Creek at 4:30 a.m. and Taser him three or four times,” said Ramsey, saying he will seek justice on Nelms’ behalf. “I don’t care if I make a dime on this case. I don’t care if this costs me money,” he said. “I want to know what policy says you can kick somebody’s door down and Taser them for asking for medical help. This is not going to happen in this town anymore.” Ramsey said he wants the names of the officers involved in the incident and that he will renew his efforts to see a citizens review board of police established in the city of Waxahachie, saying that while the majority of the department’s officers are good officers, there are some whose actions are questionable. In addition to what Ramsey cites as Civil Rights violations, he said what really disturbs him about the incident is that the officers were laughing about what happened. “They better have everything they have on this,” he said. “There had better not be one piece of evidence that is shredded in this case.” Nelms filed his complaint with the police department at 2:05 p.m. Thursday, May 3. An internal affairs investigation was conducted, with Colston informing Nelms of its conclusion in a written response dated Wednesday, May 9. “A review regarding your written complaint dated May 3, 2007, was conducted,” Colston wrote in a one-paragraph response. “After careful consideration of your allegations we have found that the officers were within our departmental policies regarding the use of a less than lethal force option (TASER) on you during an event at your residence on April 28, 2007.” Because litigation has been threatened, little if any information is available for public release. A provision of the Open Records Act allows governmental agencies to withhold otherwise releasable materials under an exception of pending litigation. As a result, in this case, such materials as dispatcher and radio communications and the use of force report in all likelihood will be withheld - as allowed by prior rulings of the state Attorney General’s Office. A brief synopsis of the incident that is releasable by the department says only that officers responded to 720 Perry at about 4:30 a.m. April 28 in reference to a 911 hangup. A Waxahachie Fire Department call record indicates a fire squad responded to the address on a “medical assist, assist EMS crew.” Fire personnel were notified at 4:44 a.m., arriving at 4:47 and clearing at 5:25 a.m. “We acknowledge an incident occurred and allegations of excessive force made,” Police Chief Chuck Edge said. “We have looked into the incident and (because of Civil Service rules and the pending litigation Open Record exception) cannot talk about it any further.” The Daily Light has requested a copy of the department’s policies on use of a less than lethal force option. The Waxahachie Police Department acquired Tasers in late 2004. The weapons fire two small probes from up to 21 feet away and administer a 50,000-volt shock. The electrical charge disables a person’s ability to control his muscles, making coordinated activity all but impossible during the five-second duration of the impulse. E-mail JoAnn at editor@waxahachiedailylight.com "

I think that less than lethal force is becoming too often a method of submission, and this should be unacceptable. Even in cases not this extreme law enforcement officers should not feel free to use a tazer to get someone to comply because it doesnt come with the consequence of death. I won't argue that there aren't times when less than lethal force should be used but deadly force should not, but the overly liberal use of less than lethal force should be looked at as seriously as the overly liberal use of deadly force. Regardless of race, socio-economic status, etc... if police had shot this man there would have been at the least some outrage over the incident, but because it was just a tazer the police think that they can do a quick internal investigation and find that everything is ok.

6/17/2007 2:30:12 PM

I'm still trying to figure out why they stormed into the house in the first place. I think there's more to this story than what is in this article.

6/17/2007 3:01:35 PM

bad part of town, they say it was registered as a hang up

6/17/2007 3:11:46 PM

I agree this doesnt make alot of sense.

6/17/2007 8:41:06 PM

Yeah, I think there is some critical info missing from the article.

Hard to make a judgment without all the pieces.

6/17/2007 9:50:28 PM

this is kinda similar to all those stories of using bad info from informants and SWAT teams subsequently busting up granny's house.

6/17/2007 11:02:18 PM

sounds like something the Wilmington police would do

6/17/2007 11:24:34 PM

That article might not say everything, but damn... and it's pretty damning that the Fire Dept. recorded the call as a “medical assist, assist EMS crew.” What the hell were they doing going into his residence like that? Unlike a SWAT team with bad information, or the recent case in Wilmington, these guys had no warrant nor probable cause... He gets tasered, but he never resisted arrest or physically fought back. Even if he refused the police commands (in his own house, which were pretty unlawful) as long as he poses no physical harm to himself or others and isn't actively resisting them the officers, I would think they broke the guidelines for use of a taser by their dept. since they are pretty standard.

Hopefully, everything comes out and these guys get thrown off the dept.

6/18/2007 12:05:46 AM

6/18/2007 12:41:56 AM

^^ I'm not making any judgements one way or the other until I hear the other side of this but when you have police responding to a 911 hangup they're going to be pretty tense to start, and depending on what was going on during his diabetic seizure he could have been quite biligerent and possibly percieved as threatening. He also may not have been to cognizent of what was going on or what he was saying.

The article is kind of all over the place, but the one thing that jumps out at me is they said they've called plenty of times for paramedics with no problems, so something happened this time that caused the 911 operator to call the cops rather than the paramedics, that's probably what put the cops on high alert and the rest (assuming this is true) was a combination of bad information and bad judgement.

Another question:

How is it that a cop came to the door, apparently she answered the door and spoke with the cop, and yet they still needed (and were able) to kick down the door?

[Edited on June 18, 2007 at 1:36 AM. Reason : q]

6/18/2007 1:26:22 AM

where the fuck is waxahachie?

6/18/2007 2:31:48 AM

this kinda reminds me of the southpark episode where Stan's parents go to a party and the ATF shows up think the party is actually a cult getting rdy to commit mass suicide.

Everytime a couple tried to leave the party, they ran into the ATF outside the house. The head agent yells "freeze don't move" then they are wasted by a spray of bullets for "not cooperating."

6/18/2007 8:13:20 AM

I think it is cute how 134234 be234234 always comes in on the side of authorities when he reads stories like this, then leaves out quotes that are damaging to his cause

Quote :

"“This police department has a bad history of disparate treatment on the east side,” Ramsey said. “They’re not treated fairly. They’re not treated justly. “I bet the police wouldn’t kick in a white man’s door on Spring Creek at 4:30 a.m. and Taser him three or four times,” said Ramsey, saying he will seek justice on Nelms’ behalf."

Face it dude, these are some power trippin' cops that wanted to harass an old negro in a rough part of town. Nothing more, nothing less.

6/18/2007 9:02:54 AM

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"depending on what was going on during his diabetic seizure he could have been quite biligerent and possibly percieved as threatening."

Sounds like something someone who has no idea what the fuck a diabetic seizure is might say while looking for a reason to defend the police.

6/18/2007 9:20:12 AM

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"I think it is cute how 134234 be234234 always comes in on the side of authorities when he reads stories like this, then leaves out quotes that are damaging to his cause "

I just like to hear the other side of such stories. We live in an age where police are hypersenitive about lawsuits and such, so when you hear something this fucked up, you want to know if there's more to the story than you're being given. If there's not, take the fuckers out back and shoot them, but I'm not going to go off just a sensationalized news story that leaves too many questions unanswered.

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"Sounds like something someone who has no idea what the fuck a diabetic seizure is might say while looking for a reason to defend the police."

Sounds like someone who's never seen a person with dangerously low blood sugar, especialy a seizure:

http://www.isletsofhope.com/diabetes/complications/seizures_1.html#seizure

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" What is a diabetic seizure? A seizure occurs as a result of a burst of simultaneous, contradictory signals from brain cells. There are many causes of seizures including head trauma, fever, illness. Hyperglycemia (high blood glucose) and hypoglycemia (low blood glucose) both can cause seizure, convulsion, coma, and even death. During a seizure a person is unaware of their surroundings even if they may seem alert on some level. If the seizure is a result of low blood glucose (hypoglycemia) do not attempt to feed the person who can easily choke on food and drink. Instead, give a shot of glucagon and call 911 if necessary. Generalized seizures can have any of the following characteristics: Can, but do not always causes violent convulsions Muscles may twitch, jerk, or slowly become rigid (clonic seizures) Loss of muscle tone (tonic seizures) Can affect involuntary body movement and function (clonic seizures) Alter sensation, awareness or behavior May involve numbness in part(s) of the body Result in brief loss of memory Manifest as detecting a strange odor (when there is none), seeing flashes of light, or sometimes feel like a panic attack Can last a few seconds or result in a continuous seizure that does not stop without medical intervention There are more than 20 types of seizures classified into groups including motor, sensory, autonomic, emotional or cognitive seizures. Many seizures have unknown causes and not all seizures result in actual convulsions. Grand mal seizure (or, tonic seizure) A person having a grand mal seizure may cry out, lose consciousness and fall to the ground, and convulse. Grand mal seizures are what most people are familiar with as they tend to occur with violent convulsions during some epileptic seizures. Complex partial seizure A person having a complex partial seizure may appear confused or dazed and will not be able to respond to questions or direction. Some people have seizures that are not noticeable to others and the only clue that a person is having an absence (petit mal) seizure is rapid blinking or a few seconds of staring into space."

[Edited on June 18, 2007 at 10:18 AM. Reason : asdfasg]

6/18/2007 10:17:14 AM

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"Nelms told the Daily Light he has never had a problem in calling for paramedics before, and there is no history of his becoming violent when he is having a diabetic seizure. Edwards noted the same in her statement, which was taken as part of Nelms’ complaint. “Of the 16 years that we (have) lived here and called for paramedics"

You'd think if his seizure was violent, then it would have been violent before in the past 16 years.

6/18/2007 10:21:06 AM

Not at all. A person could go their whole life without ever experiencing a violent seizure and suddenly have one. It would certainly give a reason for the 911 to be a hangup if she's never seen him have a violent one before. Like I said, she claims they've called 911 for this many times before, what did she do, or say that made the operator think this was a hangup and that it required police response that she hasn't done in the past?

6/18/2007 10:24:00 AM

There is a time where logical arguments and reality start to diverge. Your automatic characterization of this story as sensational has you playing catch up in this thread. Facts are facts. Nothing sensational about them. These power trip cops harassed some poor black man in need of medical help. It has happened before, and it will happen again.

6/18/2007 10:30:08 AM

You don't think the article has sensationalizm in it? OK, so what is the purpose of telling us that he has arthritis? What is the purpose of telling us that his girlfriend has Lou Gehrig's disease? What's the purpose of quoting the lawyer implying that the police department is going to be shredding evidence? All of these are designed in my opinion to subtly sway your opinion in a particular direction.

Again, I want the other side of this story, that's all I'm asking for. You on the otherhand are ready to convict on one news story.

6/18/2007 10:41:03 AM

I realize that someone wants to sue anytime it rains now, but what exactly can he sue for? Other than the front door? They called the police, and there isnt any long term damage done by a tazer. Look it sucks, but Im sure they had thier reasons. This shit has gotten ridiculous where everyone wants to win the lottery everytime a mistake is made.

6/18/2007 10:50:29 AM

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"OK, so what is the purpose of telling us that he has arthritis? What is the purpose of telling us that his girlfriend has Lou Gehrig's disease? "

That all seems like valid information to frame a story where cops tazered a diabetic seizure victim.

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"What's the purpose of quoting the lawyer implying that the police department is going to be shredding evidence?"

This one is about the only thing that I would label as sensational.

6/18/2007 10:53:48 AM

I can't believe people are defending this shit... He was in his own residence with his girlfriend who came to the fucking door and told the officer what was happening! The officer doesn't deny that! Jesus Christ... There is NO excuse, even if he was thrashing around violently, he wasn't endangering anyone!

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"but what exactly can he sue for? Other than the front door? They called the police, and there isnt any long term damage done by a tazer"

They didn't call the police, they called 911 for medical assistance, Note the Fire Dept. recorded the call from 911 dispatch as a MEDICAL assistance. His rights were violated, big time. Did the have a warrant to enter his residence? Did they have probable cause that a crime was being committed? Nope.

What other side could there be?

6/18/2007 2:55:58 PM

Quote :

"I realize that someone wants to sue anytime it rains now, but what exactly can he sue for? Other than the front door? They called the police, and there isnt any long term damage done by a tazer. Look it sucks, but Im sure they had thier reasons. This shit has gotten ridiculous where everyone wants to win the lottery everytime a mistake is made."

If I zapped a guy repeatedly for no good reason, I'm pretty sure I'd have to pay for it. Cops should be held to exactly the same standard.

6/18/2007 2:56:46 PM

Tazers are avaliable to the public now at www.taser.com

So, if you feel like it, you're welcome to go and taze a cop for no good reason at all. Of course, there will probably be some dire consequences to that.

6/18/2007 3:07:54 PM

Even if there is no intent to do so, it's a slanted story.

Key Things We're Missing
-911 Transcript
-Police/Fire/EMS Radio Traffic Transcript
-Police Report
-Use-of-Force Report

Unfortunately it doesn't sound like we're going to see these until a trial.

All we have is two people alleging the event occurred. One of those people didn't even see it happen.

Why is it slanted? Look at the additional, yet unnecessary information:

Quote :

"who has Lou Gehrig’s disease and is on oxygen"

Quote :

"“This police department has a bad history of disparate treatment on the east side,” Ramsey said. “They’re not treated fairly. They’re not treated justly."

Quote :

"“I bet the police wouldn’t kick in a white man’s door on Spring Creek at 4:30 a.m. and Taser him three or four times,” said Ramsey, saying he will seek justice on Nelms’ behalf."

Quote :

"“I don’t care if I make a dime on this case. I don’t care if this costs me money,” he said. “I want to know what policy says you can kick somebody’s door down and Taser them for asking for medical help. This is not going to happen in this town anymore.” Ramsey said he wants the names of the officers involved in the incident and that he will renew his efforts to see a citizens review board of police established in the city of Waxahachie, saying that while the majority of the department’s officers are good officers, there are some whose actions are questionable. "

Quote :

"In addition to what Ramsey cites as Civil Rights violations, he said what really disturbs him about the incident is that the officers were laughing about what happened. “They better have everything they have on this,” he said. “There had better not be one piece of evidence that is shredded in this case.”"

First of all, that the woman has a disease and is on Oxygen has no relevance.

Secondly, by reporting the musings of an attorney, the newspaper has allowed the issue to become a sensational one of race. Black people oppressed by white authority figures!! News at 11!! It continues this by allowing the insinuation that the police department shreds evidence.

Sorry, but we're left with a horribly incomplete picture of the events, and without further information none of us should be jumping to any conclusions.

6/18/2007 3:19:04 PM

Keep telling yourself we have an incomplete picture of the events. We don't.

6/18/2007 3:44:22 PM

for real!!

argg fucking cops!!!

ill ignore the lack of any kind of evidence or accounts from the police department and base my opinion on a sensationalist article and a lawyer out to make his name!

fucking hate the goddamn popo

6/18/2007 3:48:52 PM

Unless he wasn't actually lying in bed when the cops zapped him, I think we know all we need to.

6/18/2007 3:54:50 PM

Wha wha wha, I try to make sure every post in this thread is of the strictest logical standards. Sometimes, a spade is a spade, and it must be called as such. The cops fucked up, I don't know how much more obvious this one can be.

I hope someone keeps track of this, and in eleventy months from now when this finally goes to court, we'll hear about it.

6/18/2007 3:55:39 PM

i know when every spade is a spade

6/18/2007 3:56:41 PM

he called 911. THe girlfriend answered the door, and the cops had to break it in? Then they had to taze him? It doesnt make sense. And we should just take the papers word for it. I mean, we all know those rich white kids planned on raping a black stripper all year. Heaven forbid we even consider the fact that they might have been baiting for thier lottery ticket.

6/18/2007 4:02:15 PM

Quote :

"That all seems like valid information to frame a story where cops tazered a diabetic seizure victim. "

To frame a story for what? I thought we were concerned about facts. Did anyone responding to the call or the 911 operator know that the guy had arthritis? Did anyone responding to the call or the 911 operator know his girlfriend has Lou Gehrigs disease? If not, I fail to see how either point is relevant to the story at hand except to generate greater sympathy for the victim and more animosity towards the cops.

Quote :

"I can't believe people are defending this shit... He was in his own residence with his girlfriend who came to the fucking door and told the officer what was happening! The officer doesn't deny that!"

Actualy, that's not entirely clear:

Quote :

"The couple’s statements indicate an officer came to the residence on Perry Avenue and inquired as to what was going on - and then called for backup. "

Quote :

"Edwards, who has Lou Gehrig’s disease and is on oxygen, said an officer came to the door and asked her what was the matter before calling for backup and the paramedics. "

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"She said about six or seven police officers kicked the front door "

Now maybe I'm being a bit pedantic here, but nothing indicates she told the officer what was going on, just that they asked. What did she tell them, wouldn't that be some crucial information? Why did the officer feel the need to radio for backup along with the EMS unit? What did she actually say to the officer the came to the door and why if she was speaking with the officer did they need to kick the front door down? Like I said, something isn't adding up here. Even assuming these were just some racist cops looking to get their jollies by roughing up a black guy, why radio for an additional 5 or 6 cops and why radio for EMS at the same time?

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"There is NO excuse, even if he was thrashing around violently, he wasn't endangering anyone!"

A friend of mine has a disorder which among other things makes her prone to involuntary muscle movement, very similar to seizures. She has, on more than one occasion, without warning reached out and punched someone or herself. And it can happen whether she's sitting there, having a fit of convulsions or cutting some vegetables with a knife. If you didn't actualy know better, you would think she was assaulting you, so someone thrashing violently doesn't mean they aren't or can't be percieved as endangering someone. It doesn't mean they would always be percieved as a threat either, but again we have no other information than very hand picked quotes from the victim and his race baiting lawyer.

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"They didn't call the police, they called 911 for medical assistance, Note the Fire Dept. recorded the call from 911 dispatch as a MEDICAL assistance."

The way I read it, the fire department recieved the call from the police or the EMS unit the police had already called out to provide extra assistance. Again, something isn't adding up here, why if EMS was already on the scene would they need to call for the fire department as well?

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" Did the have a warrant to enter his residence?"

Are you saying that police should be required to get a warrant before they respond to a 911 call? Especialy a 911 hangup?

Quote :

"Did they have probable cause that a crime was being committed? Nope. "

When a 911 operator tells you to respond to a hangup call in a bad part of town at 4:30 AM, which is higher on your list of possible senarios, a crime in progress or a diabetic with low blood sugar? And then again, what happened when the first officer arrived on scene? What did she say, why did he feel the need for backup? Why did they have to kick down the front door?

All I want are the answers to the basic questions that any junior high newspaper reporter would know to ask, but apparently the Managing Editor of the Waxahachie Daily Light does not.

6/18/2007 4:02:21 PM

Another story:

Quote :

"Nelms, 52, said he is still recovering from an invasion that took place at his home five weeks ago. It was 4 a.m. in the morning when he said he became overcome with a diabetic seizure. His common-law wife, Josie Edwards, called 911. Officers were the first to arrive at the home located on 720 Perry. Edwards said she told them she needed medical help and Nelms said he stuck his head out the front door and said, 'We don't need the police." That was when he said the officer called for back-up. Nelms said he went back to bed and was lying down. "Three cops come in," he said. "I think it was three, three different lights, and ordered me to get on the ground and roll over." Nelms said when he started to move the officers zapped him with a taser twice, and possibly a third time, on his stomach and back. Edwards, who suffers from Lou Gehrig's disease, said she couldn't believe what was happening. "I said, 'What are y'all doing to him?'" she said. "And I heard Al say, 'Oh, Oh,' just hollering real loud." After he was hit by the tasers, paramedics arrived and tended to Nelms, and he said the officers left without explanation. Nelms filed a formal complaint. "

http://www.txcn.com/sharedcontent/dws/wfaa/localnews/news8/stories/wfaa070606_mo_policetasering.20bcdeb9.html

6/18/2007 4:17:03 PM

Quote :

"Officers were the first to arrive at the home located on 720 Perry. Edwards said she told them she needed medical help and Nelms said he stuck his head out the front door and said, 'We don't need the police." "

A few minutes ago I was about to post this was the scenario I thought might have happened as an answer to the "why did they answer the door then bust down the door" question, but then I read 132423 beakk324's post and gave up again.

[Edited on June 18, 2007 at 4:21 PM. Reason : [b]]

6/18/2007 4:20:37 PM

Yeah, cops get pissed when you say things like that.

6/18/2007 4:23:03 PM

Quote :

"Officers were the first to arrive at the home located on 720 Perry. Edwards said she told them she needed medical help and Nelms said he stuck his head out the front door and said, 'We don't need the police." "

So a cop shows up to the location of a 911 hangup. A woman from inside tells him she needs medical assistance and then some random guy sticks hit head out the door, says "We don't need the police" and then closes it. And you wonder why the cops might be on edge a little. Now we're starting to get a bit more of a picture here.

6/18/2007 4:28:41 PM

Yes, clearly the only logical response to such a situation is to kick down the door and zap the guy as he's lying in bed.

What else could the cops have done?

6/18/2007 4:33:46 PM

I didn't say it was the only logical response at all, but it's certainly understandable as to how this would have contributed to the overall outcome. If you were a cop responding to the same situation how would you react? This is what you know:

1) 911 recieved a call for assistance that ended in a hangup
2) You are in a bad part of town
3) It's 4:30 AM
4) You've arrived at the house, and an unidentified female is telling you she needs medical assistance
5) An unidentified male sticks his head out the door and tells you he doesn't need the police and then closes the door.

Now for the remaining questions:

1) All the unanswered questions from before
2) Did EMS arrive with the backup?
3) When backup arrived, did the cops try the door again
4) If so, when backup arrived, did they answer the door again?

6/18/2007 4:42:34 PM

Yeah it seems pretty clear that the first cop HAD to call for backup bc someone said they didnt need the police, then the three of them kicked in the door just to taze some guy.

6/18/2007 4:43:25 PM

Yea, I mean, I guess if I am a cop and always assuming my next call will be my last one, I can immediately start coming up with a fanciful story where

The girl in the first room was part of the robbery that was taking place in the second room. Her and her male cohort concocted the plan when they found out one of their hostage victims managed to sneak in a call to the 911 folks asking for medical assistance (not the actual cops, strangely enough)

So when the cop showed, they tried to pull a sneakeroo on him but he didn't fall for it. It all makes perfect sense. I can see why they were on edge, and why they called for 5-7 buddies to come help with the nigger tazing party.

WHY DID THEY LEAVE WITHOUT ANY COMMENT OR ANY PAPERWORK FILED? WAS A CRIME NOT COMMITTED SINCE THEY HAD TO TAZE SOMEONE?

6/18/2007 4:48:31 PM

are you still talking without knowing all the facts to the case?

shut the fuck up. if it goes to trial and the cops were being assholes, then you win. christ.

6/18/2007 4:57:56 PM

^I hear they actually had flier up for that kind of party.

It seems pretty clear that we arent getting the whole story. It does appear that the police made a mistake. And without hearing the police's side, its really hard to make an informed opinion. However, what exactly is this guy suing over? There is no long term damage done. Im curious what "damage" goes for these days.

6/18/2007 5:00:53 PM

Yeah, responding to a 911 hangup, a female asking for medical assistance and a male telling you to go away doesn't in any way shape or form seem like a crime in progress does it?

Quote :

"WHY DID THEY LEAVE WITHOUT ANY COMMENT OR ANY PAPERWORK FILED?"

Good question, why haven't the reporters asked or found that information yet along with the answers to the rest of the questions that remain unanswered?

Quote :

"WAS A CRIME NOT COMMITTED SINCE THEY HAD TO TAZE SOMEONE?"

Depends on the department use of force policy. In some departments, tasers are a complaince technique.

6/18/2007 5:01:25 PM

Quote :

"Yeah, responding to a 911 hangup, a female asking for medical assistance and a male telling you to go away doesn't in any way shape or form seem like a crime in progress does it?"

So why didn't the cop ask the woman what was going on? Why didn't they assume the woman was in danger and get her the fuck out? Why did that cop call his buddies on the spot rather than trying to talk to them from behind the door (where he was safe if that was the issue). Why was he tazed again when he rolled to his stomach?

Only a bunch of matter of fact treat every post in this section like a Robert's Rules debate folks would whine and cry about needing more information before making a judgment about this case.

I'll go on the record from this point, make a feedback thread about it, alert a mod to it, whatever, this account can be terminated if it comes out that the folks in question (not the police) were doing something wrong.

6/18/2007 5:06:21 PM

Quote :

"However, what exactly is this guy suing over? There is no long term damage done. Im curious what "damage" goes for these days."

I don't think getting zapped is exactly a pleasant experience. That second story said he was recovering from injuries caused by the tasering. Personally, I hope he sues the hell out of them.

6/18/2007 5:17:39 PM

Quote :

"So why didn't the cop ask the woman what was going on? "

He did. She said she needed medical assistance and then he was told by someone else to go away.

Quote :

"Why didn't they assume the woman was in danger and get her the fuck out? "

I thought you didn't want them kicking doors down? Furthermore, one cop going through a closed door into an unknown situation would more likely than not make things worse not better.

Quote :

"Why did that cop call his buddies on the spot rather than trying to talk to them from behind the door (where he was safe if that was the issue)."

You assume he didn't try. It takes time for backup to arrive. And the in front of the door his hardly a safe point in a senario like that. It's safer than other places, but a bullet can go through a door too.

Quote :

"Why was he tazed again when he rolled to his stomach?"

Again, this is why I want more information.

I don't think the cops in this matter are blameless, nor do I feel they're saints. It's quite obvious from the second article that the department has violated policy and at least one of the officers has as well. It's clear that an outside investigation needs to be done, but what's not clear is what happened that night or why.

Quote :

"Only a bunch of matter of fact treat every post in this section like a Robert's Rules debate folks would whine and cry about needing more information before making a judgment about this case. "

Because there has never in the history of the world ever been a victim who has made false allegations. Or dramaticised an incident beyond what it was. No one has ever accused an officer of wrong doing when infact the officer was in the right.

Quote :

"That second story said he was recovering from injuries caused by the tasering."

1) If he was laying on the bed when he was tased, what injuries could he have sustained that he would still be recovering from 5 weeks later?

2) If he did sustain such injuries, why when EMS and the fire unit responded did neither transport him to the hospital?

Again, this story still has more questions than answers. And I don't think we're going to get any until trial

[Edited on June 18, 2007 at 5:26 PM. Reason : more questions]

6/18/2007 5:21:19 PM

Quote :

"Because there has never in the history of the world ever been a victim who has made false allegations. Or dramaticised an incident beyond what it was. No one has ever accused an officer of wrong doing when infact the officer was in the right."

Those cases aren't this case.

Quote :

"He did. She said she needed medical assistance and then he was told by someone else to go away."

I'm talking about after the random person told them to go away. Why didn't he talk with the lady who he was dealing with, maybe in a different location, somewhere safe. Seems like a simple explanation on her part would have resolved the situation at that point.

Most likely what happened, is the black guy said something offensive because he doesn't like cops and was pissed they showed up instead of the paramedics (we don't need no stinkin pig) and the cop called his boys to fuck the black man up.

Quote :

"I thought you didn't want them kicking doors down? Furthermore, one cop going through a closed door into an unknown situation would more likely than not make things worse not better."

Your trying to make up information to fit your puzzle just like everyone else is. No one is talkin about a cop going through closed doors here. Seems like he could have dealt with the girlfriend just fine. The man ran back to the bedroom and slammed the door, and the woman said they needed medical help and was screaming saying there was a man with a gun or she was in any danger.

6/18/2007 5:30:59 PM

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"Those cases aren't this case."

Without all of the facts you have no idea, you're just guessing, just like the rest of us.

Quote :

"Why didn't he talk with the lady who he was dealing with, maybe in a different location, somewhere safe. Seems like a simple explanation on her part would have resolved the situation at that point. "

Presumeably because she was in the house and he was outside the house? Makes it rather difficult to carry on your conversation somewhere else when the other person is behind closed doors. If a simple explination would have solved everything, why didn't they give one in the first place? Why was she the one asking for medical assistance when it was this guy (who managed to walk to the door, talk to the cops and go lay back down) who was in need of emergency assistance because of his diabetic siezure? WHY WAS THE 911 A HANGUP WHEN THEY CLAIM TO HAVE DONE THIS MANY TIMES BEFORE WITH NO INCIDENT?

Quote :

"Most likely what happened, is the black guy said something offensive because he doesn't like cops and was pissed they showed up instead of the paramedics (we don't need no stinkin pig) and the cop called his boys to fuck the black man up. "

Why also radio for EMS and fire assistance? Why not just light him up a couple times and leave?

Quote :

"Your trying to make up information to fit your puzzle just like everyone else is. No one is talkin about a cop going through closed doors here. Seems like he could have dealt with the girlfriend just fine."

Well the cop was outside, and they were both inside (if you would read, you would note he stuck his head out the FRONT door). How do you propose he "rescue" her without going through the closed door?

[Edited on June 18, 2007 at 5:48 PM. Reason : adsf]

6/18/2007 5:46:20 PM

Quote :

"Sounds like someone who's never seen a person with dangerously low blood sugar, especialy a seizure:"

it doesnt matter how threatening he looked, he was shot in the side and back on his bed. he posed no direct threat in that position.

6/18/2007 6:16:38 PM

He wasn't shot; he was tased. And we don't know for sure what he was doing at the time. We've all seen plenty of tasing videos on youtube. Officers typically give several warnings before tasing someone. How do you know that he wasn't warned several times first?

6/18/2007 6:18:53 PM