I'm looking at purchasing a new video camera, and alas - I know jack about video cameras. I'm more of a still person myself. My the still photo world I know that Canon gear has always overachieved when it comes to getting real-life exposure and colors, but in Sears I noticed a JVC HDD camera with TONS of storage. The question here is - which one looks better and which one can i get data off quicker? If I go with a tape system I'll be using an external reader to speed it up, the JVC does a USB2.0 transfer only (which, i really wish was firewire for reliability's sake).

Comments?

Here's the two models I'm looking at - feel free to suggest more. These will be used in an outdoor environment, and can expect to take some abuse.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=1871&A=details&Q=&sku=480664&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=1871&A=details&Q=&sku=419313&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation

4/24/2007 6:26:58 PM

really, no one had an answer to this

5/10/2007 9:44:40 AM

yeah, i'd be interested in camcorder wisdom too. i want to get one by the end of the year

5/10/2007 9:47:07 AM

here's the problem.

most HDD based camcorders have pretty shitty internals for video quality. And uncompressed (aka what you want to record on) that space runs out FAST. Take a look closely at the specs and you'll see most HDD based camcorders can only do 1-2 hours of raw video.

on the flip side, there are some really nice MiniDV camcorders, but they are limited by the tape.

This definitely may have changed in the past year or so, but that was my experience when I looked at a lot of camcorders last year. I just decided to wait until a decent 1080i HD camcorder hit the under $1K mark to look again.

5/10/2007 11:41:07 AM

miniDV all the way.

as Noen pointed out, HDD cams are usually pretty crappy. The drives generate a good bit of noise, which inevitably transfers over to the video signal in some way.

PLUS (more importantly) once you run out of room on a HDD cam, you're SOL. If you've got a miniDV cam, you just pop in a new tape. Also, they make smaller DV cams, which is important to me.

I was looking real hard at the Canon HV20, but I'm in no rush until Blu-Ray burners + media become affordable.

5/10/2007 1:00:59 PM

depends on application. miniDV ftw in most cases, but if you want to just shoot home vids and dont care THAT much about quality (compression algorithms has gooten pretty good these days), HDD might be better for you. especially if you are not planning on editing the video via comupter, HDD is the way to go. In-camera editing will allow you to do basic editing and get rid of all the junk, then you can hook it up to a stand-alone dvd recorder, fool proof and super quick way to make a dvd. same with DVD-based, but i havent had much expericence with those and i wouldnt trust DVD's for long term storage.

if you are trying to do anything more serious than family (or girls gone wild) videos, then miniDV (3ccd at that, they are becoming way affordable) ->pc/mac-> DVD, miniDV, HDD or the internetz

5/10/2007 1:19:36 PM

what about transferring to PC? what are the options out there and what's good/bad?

5/10/2007 1:38:35 PM

my bro-in laws mini dv makes all kinds of noise that gets picked up by the mic.
its a cannon i don't know what model number.

5/10/2007 2:23:53 PM

^^as far as cables/connections, usb 2.0 for DVD and HDD camcorders and Firewire/i.link/IEEE 1394 for all MiniDV and some HDD/DVD. Many MiniDV will include USB, but usually for still image transfer or for use as a webcam. FireWire is preferred for uncompressed DV video transfer, has something to do with transfter rate consistency as opposed to USB 2.0. Also many standalone DVD recorders have a firewire in, but i haev not seen any with a USB in (although i havent looked at those in a couple recent months). USB is fine for compressed video and generally lets your cam work with all sorts of messaging and videoconferencing software.

uncompressed DV takes up a lot more space, something like 2 gigs for every 10 minutes, but hard drives are cheap these days.

as far as editing, adobe premiere, apple final cut pro, sony vegas are powerful apps. windows movie maker comes free with XP and does a decent job for a quick vid, fairly simple to work with. dvd authoring through the computer - i have never really been interested in it cause it takes so long to reencode, maybe there are better applications out there than the last time i tried it. i usually run finished material back to miniDV for archive and then use a stand-alone recorder to burn it to dvd and share with others.

5/11/2007 11:51:13 AM

Damn Igor, pretty much summed it all up.

Who the hell let you out of the garage anyway

5/12/2007 2:12:26 PM

bump per request

12/31/2007 3:15:30 PM

appreciate it

a coworker mentioned his father-in-law got him a dvd camera for christmas and how he had to return it because it was absolutely terrible (no post-editing, firewire, online reviews, the works). he ended swapping it for an HDD camera at circuit city and he noticed all the mini dv cameras were definitely getting phased out (older models). he was fine with getting an HDD because he wants something less professional than his prosumer dv camera. but as for the abundance of HDD cameras in the store, are HDD cameras getting that much better or is the consumer market still too dumb to care? is 2008 going to be the downfall of mini dv cameras?

12/31/2007 3:22:47 PM

Canon's MiniDV problem is motor noise as the motor to wind the tape is near the mic. This is really only noticable when you are filming silent. If someone is talking or there is other noise in the background you can't hear it at all. Honestly how often are you filming when it's completely quiet? I've got a MiniDV Canon SR-600. It uses firewire for transfer to the computer for video and has an SD slot for crappy video and not so great pictures (no flash) but that trasfer is USB 2.0. The battery life is pretty good and I've been happy with the picture. I only wish it had a light to help out with low light situations.

12/31/2007 9:44:12 PM

i had a jvc minidv that transferred over usb

1/2/2008 8:39:37 AM

Personally love my Sony MiniDV Camcorder, unless its pen drop silent you'll never hear the motor on the tapes.
Plus, I don't have to worry about a hard drive getting full, I have a stack of tapes sitting in my desk drawer, was especially nice when I went overseas and filled up five tapes and there was no way my laptop hard drive could hold all that data.
No problems with corruption from the X-Ray machines (checked international luggage) either!

1/3/2008 12:10:10 AM

I shoot HDV.
The thing about having tapes is they are a reliable and cheap medium for archiving.

1/3/2008 10:53:53 AM

Mini DV Best

HDD driven cams compress the video in a Mpeg2 fashion

HDV is fake HD (compressed HD basically)

Best bets:

MiniDV - standard def video (720x480) not compressed like mpeg2 (hdv/HDD cams)
HD - 1920x1080; not compressed

Panasonic has been terrific to me. DVX100b best buy for prosumer DV, HVX200 best buy for prosumer HD.

I've been producing indy vid for 3 years professionally now and this is what I've learned.


/thread

1/3/2008 9:14:23 PM

^
Agreed, except that 3 years in the biz is a little presumptuous
for a "/thread"

1/3/2008 9:32:49 PM

My sister/bro-in-law got a HDD vid camera about a year ago and have been very pleased with it's functionality and ease-of-use, especially with regards to storing the video on their computer or making a compilation DVD of various videos they shot. They are entirely home users, nothing professional at all, just trying to capture the moment in the easiest possible way.

I've seen the quality and it doesn't match a proper DV at all, but for a no-nonsense digital way to record and store video, the JVC HDD cameras did the job well and pleased 2 non-technical users very much.

1/3/2008 10:02:02 PM