BRING IT BACK!

I'm sick of seeing these fuckers walking around my neighborhood all damned day like they got nothing to do and still collecting a fuckin paycheck.

Hell i don't care if they're building a statue of fuckin GWB just do something please...

4/21/2007 11:47:38 PM

pick up trash, plant trees...something. Its sad when I see twenty somethings on disability. Most get it for diabetes, and come in drinking a mellow yellow. I have a patient that got his back broke on the job and is now paralzyed waist down. He was and still IS a logger. He has some choice words for a number of "disabled" in our country. He now can works some machine that splits the trees, since he obviously cant cut them down anymore.. but he WORKS and has a real diability. Pride is a dying thing in many.

4/22/2007 12:11:51 AM

Workfare is something I like more than welfare, and could support more than welfare.

4/22/2007 12:46:46 AM

there are plenty of workfare programs all throughout the country

4/22/2007 1:40:14 AM

Most welfare programs have work requirements every since the Temporary Assistance for Needy Families stuff was passed.

It's a state-by-state thing, though.


BUT PLEASE DON'T LET THAT STOP YOU FROM GIVING US YOU AWESOME ANECDOTES EXPLAINING HOW TERRIBLE WELFARE IS

4/22/2007 1:53:59 AM

^which can all be avoided by being pregnant. And did you miss the part about finding a DISABILITY? Those come out of SS money, and not welfare. However, they often are allowed to get on medicare/medicaid very early. Yeah, what would I know about it. I see them everyday. You probably have a much better perspective from a classroom.

4/22/2007 11:24:47 AM

4/22/2007 11:46:47 AM

"If we dont stand up, who will?" He said it best. I dont know johnny, how bout the people actually living in poverty? Giving people more incentives to not be productive is a bad thing. Making people earn thier money is a much better idea. Ah, but that sounds alot like capitalism, and not socialism. my bad

People have every opportunity in this country to succeed. Sure you might not get rich, but you can certainly make a decent life for yourself. Bad choices will often limit your success, but you cant keep rewarding people who continue to make bad choices by punishing productive individuals.
Explain to me how I have a lady with 8, yes EIGHT, kids. She buys herself a pair of glasses and pays cash for over 500 bucks. She doesnt work, but somehow has the money for 500 pair of glasses? Something is out of whack. While most middle class families figure how many kids they can AFFORD to raise, and are then limited by..i dunno..common sense. People "on the system" have no such limitations and are rewarded by increased money for everyone they spit out.

4/22/2007 11:56:30 AM

"leave politics out of this"

"but if you don't vote for me, i'll disappear from the landscape again until next elections"

"or at least vote for one of my democrat associates"

"but please, leave politics out of this"

4/22/2007 12:20:06 PM

I don't know what you were expecting. It was a pretty typical political speech...absolutely nothing of substance was said, and everyone felt really good at the end.

4/22/2007 12:27:28 PM

^^When he said leave politics out of it, I think he meant that it wont be a popular political decision (as demonstrated by some twwers responses to this topic) but if you have to side step that and talk about it anyways if you mean to do something about it. I’m glad he atleast recognized that it was a complex issues that would require a comprehensive response instead of simplifying to the poor need to work harder or something like that. But I don’t think anything more should be expected from a 1minute clip of a speech.

[Edited on April 22, 2007 at 12:57 PM. Reason : .]

4/22/2007 12:56:21 PM

All this being said,

Let's reenact the WPA and CCC

4/22/2007 1:21:18 PM

For those who wanted a more detailed plan than could fit into a 1 min speech, one with a focus on working your way out of poverty (while not being completely abandoned) here is Edwards.

Quote :

"End Poverty by 2036: Edwards believes that ending poverty should be a goal our nation actively pursues. A national goal will rally support for the cause and help us measure our progress. In 1999, Tony Blair announced a 20-year goal to end child poverty in Great Britain and he has already reduced child poverty by 17 percent [Washington Post, 4/3/2006]. Edwards calls for a national effort to: Cut poverty by one third within a decade, lifting 12 million Americans out of poverty by 2016. End poverty within 30 years, lifting 37 million Americans out of poverty by 2036. Creating A Working Society Edwards has outlined a Working Society initiative to lift 12 million Americans out of poverty in a decade and beat poverty over the next 30 years. In the Working Society, everyone who is willing to work hard will be expected to work and, in turn, be rewarded for it. REWARDING WORK Create 1 Million Stepping Stone Jobs for Workers Who Take Responsibility. Every American should have the chance to work their way out of poverty. However, some willing workers cannot find jobs because of the place they live, a lack of skills, experience, and references, or other obstacles like a criminal record. As much as 18 percent of former welfare recipients do not have a job. Edwards suggested creating 1 million temporary jobs over five years. The jobs would be reserved for individuals who cannot find other work after six months of looking, pay the minimum wage, and last up to 12 months. In return, workers must show up and work hard, stay off drugs, do not commit any crimes, and pay child support. Studies have shown that these programs are successful moving people into permanent jobs. Jobs would be chosen carefully with local business and labor leaders to meet local needs without displacing existing workers. [Turner, Danziger and Seefeldt, 2006; Mathematica, 2002; CBPP, 1997; Ellwood and Welty, 1999] Raise the Minimum Wage to at Least $7.50. For almost nine years, the federal minimum wage has stood at $5.15 an hour. Congressional pay has increased by more than $30,000 in that time. A full-time minimum-wage worker earns only about $900 a month and $10,700 a year. Today, Edwards proposed increasing the minimum wage to at least $7.50 an hour. The proposal would increase a full-time minimum-wage worker's pay by $4,800 and benefit more than 15 million minimum and near-minimum wage workers. A $1 increase in the minimum wage has been estimated to lift nearly 900,000 people out of poverty. [CongressLink, 2006; EPI and CBPP, 2005; Census Bureau, 2006; EPI, undated; Sawhill and Thomas, 2001] Create Opportunity in Rural America. Nearly 90 percent of America's poorest counties are rural, and many have been hit hard by the struggles of the U.S. manufacturing and textile industries. Edwards believes in investing more in rural community colleges to strengthen "mid-skilled" industries and linking training to actual business needs. He also supports rural small business centers to build rural economies around homegrown businesses. [Rural Poverty Research Center, 2006; Center for the Study of Rural America, 2005] Strengthen Labor Laws. Union workers earn 28 percent more than non-union workers, on average. Federal law promises workers the right to choose a union, but the law is poorly enforced, full of loopholes, and routinely violated by employers. Edwards supports the Employee Free Choice Act to give workers an effective, democratic choice over whether to form a union. EXPANDING AFFORDABLE HOUSING Establish a New Era at HUD. The federal Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) needs an overhaul to make housing policy a force for economic opportunity. Too many low-income families are segregated in high-poverty neighborhoods, cutting them off from jobs and good schools and creating areas of concentrated poverty that undermine other antipoverty programs. Edwards suggested creating one million new housing vouchers over five years to let low-income families choose to live in better neighborhoods. He believes that we should also expand the supply of affordable housing that is economically integrated with other communities. He also proposed coordinating housing policies across metropolitan areas, cutting HUD bureaucracy, and requiring recipients of new housing vouchers to work if they can. Create New Homeowners. Edwards has proposed an American Dream Tax Credit to help first-time homebuyers. Working families would receive up to $1,000 a year for five years, which they could set aside for a future downpayment. After five years, American workers will have up to $5,000 for toward their first home. Fight Predatory Lending. Home ownership promotes economic security and, for most families, is the top generator of wealth. However, predatory lenders use deceptive terms and abusive interest rates and fees to strip away families' equity, reducing the amount of wealth they have saved in their homes and sometimes depriving them of their homes entirely. Edwards called for fair rules to protect homeowners. HELPING FAMILIES SAVE Help Low-Income Workers Save with "Work Bonds." Edwards proposed a new tax credit to help low-income, working Americans save for the future. The credit would match wages to $500 per year and be directly deposited into a savings account. Edwards has also proposed expanding the Savers Credit to match the savings of low-income families. Expand Access to Bank Accounts and Fight Abusive Payday Lending. An estimated 56 million Americans don't have bank accounts, and they pay check cashers $8 billion for services most banks provide for free. Short-term payday loans regularly charge interest rates above 300 percent. Edwards suggested subsidizing bank accounts for working families and national rules to prevent abusive payday lending. [Center for Economic Progress, 2004] STRENGTHENING EDUCATION Expand College Opportunity: In Greene County, North Carolina, Edwards helped launch a College for Everyone program that is helping students attend college this fall. He has proposed a similar national program where students who agree to work part-time during their first year at a public college would get their tuition paid. Research has shown that the first year of college is the most difficult one, where additional student aid can make the greatest difference. [Dynarski, 1999; Census, 2005] Create Second-Chance Schools for High School Dropouts: As many as one-third of all students drop out of school, and the rates are even worse for poor and minority students. Almost a third of dropouts between the ages of 25 and 34 live in poverty. Large majorities of recent dropouts regret their decision and now believe that a high school degree is the key to good jobs. Edwards believes that we should create second-chance schools, including some in evenings and at community colleges, to help former dropouts get back on track. [Civic Enterprises, 2006; Manhattan Institute, 2006; Urban Institute, 2001] Strengthen Public Schools: Edwards suggested expanding access to preschool programs such as Head Start and North Carolina's Smart Start, investing more in teacher pay and training to attract good teachers where we need them most, and strengthening high schools with smaller schools and a more challenging curriculum. PROMOTING RESPONSIBLE FAMILIES Encourage and Reward Responsibility from Fathers. Welfare reform required mothers to work and helps them find jobs, but it failed to touch poor fathers. It did not help fathers support their children and become valuable members of their family and their community. Edwards will require more fathers to help support their children and, in return, help them find work. He will reserve budget cuts in child support enforcement to increase collections by more than $8 billion over the next decade and ensure that payments benefit children. Cut Taxes for Low-Income Workers. The Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) matches the first earnings of low-income workers. The credit is often used for household necessities and work expenses. It is also an effective tool for increasing labor force participation. The EITC already lifts more than 4 million people out of poverty, and expanding it could draw hundreds of thousands more Americans into the workforce and lift more than a million out of poverty. [CBPP, 2006; Sawhill and Thomas, 2001] Triple the EITC for Adults without Children. Working adults without children are the only Americans living in poverty who pay income and payroll taxes. A single worker at the poverty line pays more than $800 in federal income and payroll taxes. Moreover, the EITC largely overlooks single men, who receive less than 2 percent of EITC benefits. Edwards supported tripling the maximum EITC for single adults to $1,236. This proposal will give 4 million low income workers a tax cut averaging $750, lifting workers out of poverty and drawing more men into the workforce. [CBPP, 2000 and 2006] Reduce the Marriage Penalty for Struggling Families. Marriage is the foundation for strong, economically secure families, but the EITC penalizes married couples by up to $3,000. Edwards believes that we must cut the EITC marriage penalty. His proposal would reduce penalties on low-income families who choose to get married and cut taxes for 3 million couples by about $400 a year. [CBPP, 2006] Fight Teen Pregnancy. Edwards believes we can build on recent partial success in reducing teen pregnancy. The U.S. still has one of the highest rates of teen pregnancy in the industrialized world. Edwards called for more support for struggling young people and investments in programs that help them beat the odds. "

[Edited on April 22, 2007 at 1:25 PM. Reason : .]

4/22/2007 1:25:03 PM

you really do have a hard on for Johnny

4/22/2007 1:31:31 PM

What can I say, that $800 haircut really does it for me.

4/22/2007 1:33:13 PM

Quote :

"some willing workers cannot find jobs because of the place they live, a lack of skills, experience, and references, or other obstacles like a criminal record."

Quote :

"Raise the Minimum Wage to at Least $7.50"

Quote :

"Strengthen Labor Laws"

Am I the only one here that recognizes the first quote is contradicted by the following two quotes? If you dissuade people from creating jobs by either driving up the price or driving up the hassle they will do less of it.

Quote :

"Create Opportunity in Rural America. Nearly 90 percent of America's poorest counties are rural, and many have been hit hard by the struggles of the U.S. manufacturing and textile industries."

A dollar in a depressed rural county is not worth the same as a dollar in New York City. At the extreme, Price differentials can get extreme in some circumstances (particularly judging by wage differentials) making a $7.50 minimum wage exceedingly destructive in some areas while it is largely un-used in others.

The implimentation of minimum wages at the state level has been a real benefit to rural states, lets leave it at that.

4/22/2007 3:20:45 PM

I live in an area that was hit hard when the textile jobs left. It will take time for the mindset to change. For generations school didnt matter, most didnt finish and just went to work. That opportunity just isnt there anymore. However, the remaining factory workers dont seem to get the message as goodyear strikes every two years. And they are saying the same things the textile workers were saying, "they cant leave, they NEED us." They will eventually realize it.

There are plenty of state projects that can be performed by using a workfare program. Its another mindset problem though. Ive been getting the money for doing nothing for all these years..now you want me to work for it? that will be the problem.

4/22/2007 9:50:40 PM

4/22/2007 11:47:51 PM

woot




And yet these are the same people who bash FDR

4/22/2007 11:52:56 PM

It is for non-workfare related crimes that we condemn FDR.

4/23/2007 12:16:08 AM

Quote :

"And yet these are the same people who bash FDR "

It's more of a, if we're going to have a welfare system, we might as well do it in a way that bennefits society as a whole.

4/23/2007 10:26:48 AM

i like the idea of workfare but i've read some negative things about the welfare to work stuff that's in place as it is.

4/23/2007 10:41:54 AM

Well there are a couple obvious problems with the idea:

1) the potential for creating jobs just for the hell of it, which is a waste of resources (yes there's a lot of road work and such that need to be done but eventualy you will hit a limit)

2) inefficiency when you're taking what is almost inevitably the lowest rungs of society and putting them to work on projects that are already inefficient as is.

3) inability to fire a worker. In the real world, you don't do your job right or well, they fire you, you don't make money. In a workfare world, inefficient or bad workers who are fired would just wind up on "normal" welfare, making them larger drains on resources as now not only are we still paying for them, but now we need to find and train someone to replace them. This could be solved by there being a willingness to say to someone "If you can't even hack a workfare job, then you don't deserve public help" and cutting them off, but that won't happen.

4) In the future, I could see people arguing that the people on workfare programs aren't making enough money because they can't buy or have this or that luxury (the free internet access to all crowd, I'm looking at you), and demanding we pay more money. This is the same problem welfare has at times. Workfare should always be the lowest of possible employments, giving a desire to find something better and stick with it. If workfare ever becomes a higher paid or bennefitted position than real jobs, people won't want to try and get off the workfare track.

4/23/2007 11:02:28 AM

^good post.

Welfare should pay half of min wage. Dont like it? get a job.

4/23/2007 11:21:25 AM

you want to know why welfare is so "high"? because there is no point in giving people welfare if it isnt enough to provide for rent and food. at the same time, wages are so low that people working 40 hours a week at minimum wage cant pay for the basic needs.

So, yes, you could lower the level of welfare benefits, but if you did so it wouldnt force people to work, it would force people to starve.

4/23/2007 11:26:13 AM

starve? Yeah welfare provides so little, I saw thousands of starving people in new orleans. They had to slide one "starving" woman down a board out of a house bc she was too large to walk.

If you cant afford to feed youself, common sense would dictate you cant afford to feed a child, or 6.

There is nothing wrong with people EARNING thier money. You see thats how society works. Without us workers there wouldnt be any money to be given to others. Its like teaching your 10 year old that money doesnt grow on trees.

4/23/2007 11:43:33 AM

You most certainly can pay for basic needs on minimum wage at 40 hours a week. It's not the best life in the world, but you can. The problem is we live in a "want it now, got to have it now" society. Instead of sticking to the job and working and improving and working your way up, people get frustrated and fed up, quit, leave or just plain don't show up and then have to start all over again. No one working 40 hours a week at minimum wage should be doing it for longer than a year. If they are, it's because they aren't trying hard enough. Even McDonalds pays better than minimum wage.

Quote :

"yes, you could lower the level of welfare benefits, but if you did so it wouldnt force people to work, it would force people to starve."

Which is why obesity, not starvation, is a major problem for our poor right?

Edit
--------

Of course, you need to define what basic needs are. I'm sure your definition is quite different from mine. I consider basic needs a safe roof over your head (safe as in it's not about to come crashing down), access to a kitchen to cook, food to eat and clothes to wear. Everything else is a luxury. TV, air conditioning, private kitchens or bathrooms, phones etc. All of that is a luxury. When I think basic needs, I think a dorm room in a dorm hall. What do you think?

[Edited on April 23, 2007 at 11:50 AM. Reason : kjh]

4/23/2007 11:46:23 AM