car has been sitting for almost a year. maybe more. new battery, plugs have spark.

the gas guage was at F, so i figure bad gas. but i opened the gas door, and the cap isnt there, so i figured ok, someone probably stole the gas out of it. and i knocked on the tank, sounded damn empty.
i was going to try anyways, but i can only get the syphon tube about 10-12 inches down the fuel neck, at about the point where the metal neck meets the rubber tube is where it looks like its just stopping.

so i put a can of seafoam and 5.5 gallongs of 93 octane gas (had only one 5 gallon tank). then the guage started to work, went backwards to half a tank, then kinda to the 1/4 mark. i dont know how big the tank is.

still no start.

it cranks all day. i can get it started with some air cleaner spray, but then shuts right off.

took the cover from inside the cabin out. looks a bit trickery under there. the fuel lines are fight in front of me.

need someone with some ford experience to see whats up.

or just tell me what the deal is. some things that i can do in like 20 minute time periods, its hard to get a good hour or so to work on it unless i take a day off of work.

maybe some lines clogged??

[Edited on February 24, 2007 at 7:12 PM. Reason : ]

2/24/2007 7:09:21 PM

have you verified the fp is working (fuses/relays)? if they're fine, unhook a line and see if it puts any fuel out when you crank it. or you could test it the "proper" way with a voltometer.

[Edited on February 24, 2007 at 8:28 PM. Reason : .]

2/24/2007 8:28:15 PM

ill check that to morow

2/24/2007 8:34:09 PM

I'll take it.

2/24/2007 8:35:45 PM

whaz dis, da aerostar replacement?

2/24/2007 8:59:35 PM

nah, its a van we've had for a few years since we opened our dry cleaners. its one of those that sits out front and has the prices on it.

now that we done have our cleaners, i need to get it off the lot

the aerostar replacement is coming soon. maybe. but i think its gonna be a chrysler. i just hope not.

[Edited on February 24, 2007 at 11:04 PM. Reason : ]

2/24/2007 10:50:32 PM

take the line off the rail, cut the key on and see if you have gas

2/25/2007 12:20:12 AM

or just give the schrader valve on the rail a poke.... i'm betting the fuel pump has locked up- but check for power at the tank connector before ya drop it
i'm dealing with a 93 f350 at work right now that has a propane/gas dual fuel setup on it... but hasn't been run on the gas side of things in several years... both fuel pumps have locked up

2/25/2007 1:41:49 AM

don't the vans have frame rail mounted in line pumps like the trucks/fsb's?

2/25/2007 8:21:05 AM

damn old american vehicles.

i can disconnect a fuel line in these toy0tas and h0ndas with my eyes closed.

yesterday i noticed the fuel line (looks like there are 2 side by side) and ill be damned if im not gonna sit there for a few minutes wondering how to disconnect it.

2/25/2007 9:39:12 AM

supply/return.

shrader valve will work too like ^^^ said.

2/25/2007 11:05:29 AM

Quote :

"don't the vans have frame rail mounted in line pumps like the trucks/fsb's?"

I think by 90 or 91 all the Ford trucks/vans/FSB's had high pressure in-tank pumps.

You also need a special tool to disconnect the fuel lines at the rail.

[Edited on February 25, 2007 at 7:00 PM. Reason : .]

2/25/2007 6:57:52 PM

Quote :

"You also need a special tool to disconnect the fuel lines at the rail."

some wire cutters

[Edited on February 25, 2007 at 7:04 PM. Reason : ]

2/25/2007 7:04:08 PM

lol

2/25/2007 7:44:39 PM

nah its a little plastic deal, they used to put them in the box with some fuel filters. you can also get a line quick disconnect tool kit at the parts stores... even at the carquest across the street from your work.

but you dont need to disconnect any fuel lines, first step is to listen to the fuel pump, if that fails, or you hear nothing, then hit up a wiring diagram, trace down the power supply to the fuel pump, then go into electrical mode. check the proper fuse, relay, then wiring direct to the fuel pump motor.

if the listen test tells you the fuelpump is in fact running, then you should test fuel pressure. however there should be a test port on the fuel rail, you shouldnt need to do an inline test and disconnect lines and shit.

2/25/2007 7:50:07 PM

the fuel rail has a little purge looking valve, looking similar to what you will see on some AC lines.

i pressed the valve in there. and nothing. no pressure or liquid came out.

makes me thing there aint no fuel going to it.

hmm, ill have to check out alldata for a diagram

2/25/2007 7:53:31 PM

oh and just undoing a line isnt a good fuel pressure test at all, you need to put a guage on it. get the factory specs and compare.

keep in mind that if the car sat long enough to evaporate all the gas in the tank you really need to change the fuel filter- because when you dumped that 5 gallons in there- all of the silt and residue that collected in the bottom of the tank, along with the varnish deposits that are now being dissolved by the new fuel, are mixing around and being pumped up to the engine. (assuming that the pump is indeed working properly)... a lot will get caught in the filter, the rest of the bad gas mix that gets by will likely have to be purged, thats when removing the line is a good idea. if the shitty fuel mix will burn then you can fire it up and let it run for a good while, then take it for a little drive. before doing any of that, be sure to check the oil and other fluids (brake/trans especially) and verify that the brakes and lights and shit work.

in regards to purging old/bad/water contaminated gas, addign some gas line dryer and topping off the tank (to dilute the shit with good combustible gas) wont hurt.

after you get it all running again, be sure to check the plugs (on that van its likely best to just change them) and dont be surprised if the o2 sensors dont last too long.

2/25/2007 7:59:29 PM

^^yeah, that's the shrader valve.

imo, it's alot easier to verify the pump is running by pushing that in or sliding a line off than getting all under the vehicle to probe wires.

also, i'm not sure about ford vans, but alot of vehicles don't run the pump until you're cranking the vehicle. makes it kinda hard to hear the pump, especially if you're working alone.

[Edited on February 25, 2007 at 8:01 PM. Reason : .]

2/25/2007 8:01:13 PM

Quote :

"alot of vehicles don't run the pump until you're cranking the vehicle"

I thought that was only for cars that have a fuel pressure sensor.

2/25/2007 8:09:37 PM

nope.

2/25/2007 8:12:36 PM

so in the cars you mention, pcm dosent activate fuel pump until it sees crank/cam position signal? or oil pressure?

2/25/2007 8:49:59 PM

yup, the circuit is triggered by something (depends on vehicle) during the crank/run cycle.

two off the top of my head are isuzus and toyota trucks.

2/25/2007 9:11:03 PM

tech discussion is fun AND educational!

2/25/2007 10:02:58 PM

lol

2/25/2007 10:16:18 PM

Quite a few makes will energize the pump for a short period when the ignition switch is turned on. Just about all the Japanese cars I've had the pleasure of working on are similar to this. My Teg does it. My 280ZX does (or rather did) it. My Maxima ('84; last of the RWD ones) and my Stanza Wally Wagon did it.

But the pump does not stay continuously energized unless there is an ignition pulse present from the distributor or unless there is an active waveform present from the crank angle sensor.

2/25/2007 10:52:59 PM

The Ford van turns on the fuel pump for a couple seconds right after the key is turned to on, then if no rpm is sensed, it turns off the pump. You can jumper a couple wires in the diagnostic port to force the relay to stay on so you can diagnose problems such as these. Jumper between the fuel pump and signal return:

2/25/2007 11:52:17 PM