anyone catch o'reily tonight? these two bitches were pitching a fucking fit over the fact that bush and biden said that obama was articulate. they were saying it was condescending and not a compliment.

since when is calling someone articulate a racist goddamned remark? he IS articulate. motherfucker speaks very well and in the heat of the moment. everyone knows this. and they were arguing that because everyone knows he's articulate, CALLING him articulate is condescending. well reality check cunts, what the fuck do you say about michael jordan? he was a great basketball player. everyone knew it. you STILL say that shit. my god

sorry, i'm not a big fan of o'reily. in fact i think he's somewhat of a douchebag. but that pissed me off so bad, i definitely agreed with him

2/8/2007 4:28:48 AM

because that is an adjective that is only applied to African Americans. When was the last time you heard a white individual be described as articulate? It seems time and time again, african americans are expected to be uneducated thugs and when they are not people's surprise meter takes over and they automatically state something like, "he speaks so well," or "he's articulate" as if he is not expected to be because of his race.

2/8/2007 4:39:51 AM

^ exactly

Although I definately agree that the manner in which they presented their argument was overwhelmingly retarded

2/8/2007 6:51:40 AM

um...i heard clinton described as articulate and well spoken many times. Even though he was inducted to the African American Hall of Fame....pretty sure he's white.

2/8/2007 7:26:14 AM

^^^ I'm going to try to counter what you say without either sounding racist or using superlatives. Here goes:

When enough people of a race speak in a certain way that even a school board proposes adding that way as an offical dialect*, and when that way of speaking is associated in popular culture with thugs and rappers who promote violence**, then yes I will say that a Black man speaks articulate when he doesn't talk like that.

The bullshit about this is that it wouldn't be racist if someone was saying that a White backwoods southerner from Clayton was articulate because he wasn't talking with a thick uneducated sounding southern accent. But OH NOES when it's a Black person who speaks different from the majority of Blacks that I hear every day it MUST be racist right?

*http://www.cnn.com/US/9612/30/ebonics/index.html
**http://www.mtv.com

[Edited on February 8, 2007 at 7:30 AM. Reason : ]

2/8/2007 7:30:22 AM

HE SPEAKS SO WELL

2/8/2007 8:07:42 AM

biden:
"I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that's a storybook, man."

what did bush say?

2/8/2007 8:14:16 AM

BUSH DOESN'T CARE ABOUT BLACK PEOPLE


it's true, someone famous said it.

2/8/2007 8:43:58 AM

^Actions speak louder than words

2/8/2007 9:09:40 AM

I agree, you dont hear anyone else use the "well spoken" about another race. The problem is that the outrage is against the person making the comment, and not towards the reason WHY people notice it.

2/8/2007 11:54:34 AM

articulate...well spoken...etc...are basically "wow he sure is smart for a black guy!"

like with athletes...the white basketball player described as gritty...a blue collared guy...a hustle player...are basically "heres why a white guy has lasted in the nba that long!"

2/8/2007 12:18:48 PM

his use of the jive slang is minimal at best

i trust him

2/8/2007 12:51:25 PM

dumb people. take a compliment and go with it.
frickin annoying when people try so hard to find something wrong with what someone says.

2/8/2007 12:53:08 PM

you know obama gets home

and he's ghetto as a motherfucker

he stand around with his aides and starts spitting the dopest rhymes

2/8/2007 12:53:43 PM

It's all about context. Consider the two quotes:

Quote :

"I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that's a storybook, man."

In Biden's case, the way he framed the term "articulate" was with the underlying assumption that all previous African-American candidates were not. There's a pretty blatant hint of racism here.

As for Bush, I assume they're referring to this comment:

Quote :

"Bush: “Oh, I don’t know. He ain’t — look — he hasn’t got elected yet. He ain’t even got the party’s nomination either. He’s an attractive guy, he’s articulate, I’ve been impressed with him, I’ve seen him in person, but he’s got a long way to go to be president.”"

In this case, I don't see any sort of racial taint to his words. Here, he's simply stating that Obama is better at articulating his point than other politicians, much like how people use "articulate" to describe another presidental contender, John Edwards. For Bush, it was simply a matter of poor timing and an attempt by people of the liberal side to deflect a very ugly gaff by one of their own.

(And yes, I know Republicans use the same tactic. Pelosi and her damn jet are a good example of that.)

[Edited on February 8, 2007 at 12:54 PM. Reason : .]

2/8/2007 12:54:23 PM

he did play on the basketball team in high school fyi

2/8/2007 12:56:43 PM

basketball?

I KNEW IT

he's a brother, through and through

2/8/2007 12:58:07 PM

he played basketball and smoked weed

i mean shit, thats most black dudes i know

2/8/2007 1:04:19 PM

look...

Biden, while meaning only the best, should've known better than to use that choice of words. There actually is a legitimate reason that it's considered condescending, and white people should have the courtesy to recognize that and make an effort to be accomodating.

On the other hand, black people shouldn't be so ridiculously thin-skinned about it. Furthermore, black people (as a group) need to get it together--white people negatively stereotyping individual blacks is absolutely wrong and completely reprehensible, but there is a reason that such stereotypes exist, and black people need to do something about it.


lastly, good job Obama for showing grace and poise in the middle of this stuff with Biden and W. Bush.

2/8/2007 1:13:17 PM

I agree with RedGaurd. Biden didn't only say he was articulate, he pointed out that for a main-stream black (half white), he was very articulate, which is racist no matter how you slice it.

2/8/2007 1:20:43 PM

^^those darn blacks. if they werent so lazy...

2/8/2007 1:22:41 PM

^

look...black people, by the numbers--as a group--are severely fucked up. that's cold hard fact, and pretty much nobody would disagree. it's a consensus among everyone from Al Sharpton to David Duke.

they might disagree as to the causes and the solutions, but not that it's a problem.


yes, blacks have been historically disadvantaged. Yes, there is still major fallout from that--it takes a while to catch up when other people had a head start on you. Yes, there is still even some active racism, although that has largely been dealt with. However, black people, as a group, aren't doing all that they should, either. it is hardly strictly a failure on the part of American society as a whole--the "system".

[Edited on February 8, 2007 at 1:35 PM. Reason : asdfa]

2/8/2007 1:31:12 PM

Well, if Obama were a republican we would have Harry Belafonte on tv calling him a "house nigger" for not standing with his people.

Race as a factor in politics - regardless of party - makes me want to choke a bitch.

2/8/2007 3:12:14 PM

agreed....its not like they said "wow! his hair holds like NO water!"

2/8/2007 4:14:47 PM

just face it...if you call a black person "articulate" it has racist undertones

we have a double standard folks...its been pretty damn obvious for years

2/8/2007 4:29:12 PM

"The last thing that we need is a president with a propensity towards gang violence who will do nothing but increase the national deficit by buying spinners for air force one and getting platinum teeth for his 13 brothers and sisters."

vs.

"He is articulate."

2/8/2007 4:30:52 PM

more like

"Wow...he's a black guy and he's smart too!"

vs

"He is articulate"

2/8/2007 4:48:46 PM

meh.

i like mine better.

2/8/2007 4:53:20 PM

i think yours is more humorous to both read and think about but i think mine is a little more accurate

2/8/2007 4:53:55 PM

I'll say it again...

if the prime minister of China came and spoke perfect English with no accent... wouldn't you say he was articulate? You'd say it because he spoke perfect English without a hit of an accent which would be out of the ordinary.


if someone from a trailer park spoke perfect English you'd say the same thing, wow... he's articulate.


Now, why if THIS guy ends up speaking perfect English:



Why is it racist to say... "Wow, he sure is articulate"

2/8/2007 5:28:44 PM

Quote :

"if the prime minister of China came and spoke perfect English with no accent... wouldn't you say he was articulate?"

no, you would say "wow you've mastered english"

articulate is how well one expresses opinions/ideas/viewpoints. ie, easily understandable but also eloquent

2/8/2007 5:49:17 PM

^^ Lil' Jon isn't a Senator.

2/8/2007 6:02:20 PM

Quote :

"On the other hand, black people shouldn't be so ridiculously thin-skinned about it."

whats funny is a lot of the people most vocal about bidens poor choice of words are white. a lot of times its white apologists who are oversensitive about these things.

2/8/2007 6:04:47 PM

White politicians are eloquent. "Articulate" is beneath them.

Black politicians are articulate. But if they work hard enough and the white man approves of them, they too can reach eloquence.

But seriously, the whole topic of speaking properly or well is total bullshit. We tell young black children that by not speaking standard English they'll be shut out of a prosperous society. But the fucking president of the United States of America struggles with verb conjugations, and the people who do speak perfectly are seen as dull, robotic, smarty pants know-it-alls... So let's just be real with the black kids: White people can speak however they please. You cannot because you're black.

[Edited on February 8, 2007 at 6:14 PM. Reason : sss]

2/8/2007 6:12:51 PM

no, speaking well is pretty important

2/8/2007 6:14:36 PM

^It's more important for black people than it is for white people.

If a white person speaks something other than standard English, it's cause he has his own style and can't be bothered to watch his words.

If a black person speaks something other than standard English, it's cause he's a dumb ape.

2/8/2007 6:18:32 PM

^^ yeah, President Bush is an anomaly.

^ concur that, at least sometimes, it may be more important for blacks than whites.

Quote :

"whats funny is a lot of the people most vocal about bidens poor choice of words are white. a lot of times its white apologists who are oversensitive about these things. "

concur. fuck them, too.

[Edited on February 8, 2007 at 6:20 PM. Reason : asdf]

2/8/2007 6:19:46 PM

^^^^You are comparing the average joe/raheem to the son of a president. I would argue that if your daddy was the president and you have a free pass to ivy league education, and a guaranteed shot at holding a public office, then you can struggle with the English language.

For ALL other people (save musicians/artist etc..), it IS pretty important to speak properly if they want people to take them seriously.

Quote :

"If a white person speaks something other than standard English, it's cause he has his own style and can't be bothered to watch his words."

Wrong. People with a thick southern draw and lack of extensive lexicon are immediately labeled as dumb.

[Edited on February 8, 2007 at 6:24 PM. Reason : .]

2/8/2007 6:22:18 PM

Quote :

"We tell young black children that by not speaking standard English they'll be shut out of a prosperous society. But the fucking president of the United States of America struggles with verb conjugations"

2/8/2007 6:24:47 PM

Quote :

" People with a thick southern draw and lack of extensive lexicon are immediately labeled as dumb."

IT'S LIKE RAAAAAAAAAIIIIIN

ON YOUR WEDDING DAY

2/8/2007 6:29:14 PM

haha pwnt

2/8/2007 6:31:02 PM

Quote :

"Wrong. People with a thick southern draw and lack of extensive lexicon are immediately labeled as dumb."

You're correct. There are exceptions to the rule. And people with very thick accents are one exception.

2/8/2007 6:35:16 PM

Quote :

"So let's just be real with the black kids: White people can speak however they please. You cannot because you're black."

Wrong. Anybody who speaks like they are from the ghetto won't get anywhere unless they give Dre a kick ass demo.

I don't care what color your skin is, if you choose to speak thug - a stupid dialect of english that actually applauds horrible grammar - then you deserve whatever life gives you.

Bush gets by because he speaks like an educated person, albeit poorly.

2/8/2007 6:39:25 PM

Quote :

"I would argue that if your daddy was the president and you have a free pass to ivy league education, and a guaranteed shot at holding a public office, then you can struggle with the English language."

Bush's struggle actually helped him. Look at the 2000 elections where Gore's speech was used to portray him as a know-it-all, smarty-pants, teacher's pet suck-up, and Bush's speech was used to show him as the lovable class clown. Who got elected? Did speaking perfectly standard English really matter for them? So why do we tell black children that they have to speak it? Why do they have to speak it while white people get to do what they want?

2/8/2007 6:41:08 PM

^ Meh. I overheard a conversation about how americans elect either the common man or the cowboy every time.

I'm not sure which W is.

2/8/2007 6:43:21 PM

^Right.

Quote :

"Wrong. Anybody who speaks like they are from the ghetto won't get anywhere unless they give Dre a kick ass demo."

That's what I've been saying.

Quote :

"I don't care what color your skin is, if you choose to speak thug - a stupid dialect of english that actually applauds horrible grammar - then you deserve whatever life gives you."

What makes it stupid? Is it stupid because you don't speak it?

[Edited on February 8, 2007 at 6:44 PM. Reason : sss]

2/8/2007 6:44:24 PM

^I'm not sure that's why Bush got elected. People that make these mistakes are labeled as dumb, that's all there is to it.

See, the Duke, proved my point. I misspelled "drawl" and all of a sudden the grammar nazi attacked and called me out-- labeling me as dumb. So for the rest of this thread I've been branded.

[Edited on February 8, 2007 at 6:49 PM. Reason : better correct my english.]

2/8/2007 6:48:10 PM

^^no, thats not what you were saying. you were saying it didnt matter for white people. then you made an exception excluding all white people who dont speak well which really confuses me about what your point was.

if your point was that for white people who speak well it doesnt matter if they speak poorly (you know.. cause the first part excludes all of those who speak poorly) then i can agree

[Edited on February 8, 2007 at 6:50 PM. Reason : .]

2/8/2007 6:48:16 PM

Quote :

"^^no, thats not what you were saying. you were saying it didnt matter for white people. then you made an exception excluding all white people who dont speak well which really confuses me about what your point was."

Right. It doesn't matter for white people, but it does matter for black people.

And I made an exception for white people with thick accents.

Where's the confusion?

2/8/2007 6:52:17 PM

you are putting ebonics and thick accents in different groups, they are the same thing

2/8/2007 6:53:58 PM