Disclaimer: I don't know how you kids roll in here, but if you want to bash classic VWs, do it elsewhere. This car is not my daily driver, but I enjoy working on it (at least, I used to...) and want to get it running again.



Ok. I have a '67 Beetle, that came with a stock '70 engine. Doesnt mean anything, really, but back in highschool, my friends and I got involved updating some of the components, namely the heads. The '70 motors had single ported heads and a single carb. We modified it to have dual ported heads with still the same single carb (which is pretty much new). They manufacture adapters for this, so we didn't think it to be a big deal, and perhaps it isnt.

My question is this: Will sticking with the DP heads be worth it while I'm tearing into the engine once again, or should I give up on the idea of messing around and (possibly) sneaking a bit more horsepower. It's been 5 years since I've been home long enough to work on it, and it has not been TOUCHED in my absence.


Return to stock '70 single ported or go with the dual ported idea? Do you think the single carb will be able to handle the DP heads? It's a 30/31 PICT carb, and cylinders are all the same size (only the heads are different...)

12/9/2006 12:51:17 PM

I think you would do better to look up some VW beetle web forums. I'd be willing to bet you'd find all the answers you're looking for and more.

12/9/2006 12:58:04 PM

well, i had started typing out a long essay on the pros/cons of either setup... then i got to thinking this sure sounds familiar- i had a friend with a car just like that

then it dawned on me- it was you
how ya been man? hit me up sometime and i'll be glad to jump right back in on that project...

was one of those dp heads cracked? i cant remember

12/9/2006 1:02:53 PM

LOL I didnt know you were still on this board

12/9/2006 1:14:02 PM

now that you mention it, i think of them DID have a hairline fracture on the edge of a valve...

I'm thinking about going back to the SPs to just make it easy, but I'll have to get a new oil cooler (old style...) and clean up the old fan shroud...

btw I've been reading up on carb adjustment/tuning, and I dont think it's as hard as we were thinking it was... I'm more intimidated with the fact that I'm going to have to take it apart to clean the last 5 years of sitting out of it than I am the adjustment. I'm about to go down to this place chris told me about, see what they got, then probably just order the stuff online.

Getting:
carb rebuild kit (gaskets mainly)
engine gaskets (shouldnt need, but whitey will be closed as we're working on it, and it's only $15)
85.5mm Pistons/Cylinders
and possibly the oil cooler
battery
clutch t/o bearing



and I seem to remember my brand-f'ing-new starter not working well, so maybe that too

12/9/2006 1:26:28 PM

get a cheap engine kit form jcwhitney for it

12/9/2006 4:29:11 PM

^yeah, really. those things are like rebuilding a lawnmower engine. i would go dp if you can though, it's a pretty noticeable power difference.

[Edited on December 9, 2006 at 4:44 PM. Reason : .]

12/9/2006 4:43:50 PM

but will my single carb be able to keep up with the more efficient DP heads?


maybe i'm making it more complicated than it actually is, but it seems to me that it opens a whole new issue of how it was designed. Would it be that you'd just make the mixture more rich, and that's the end of it? Because the DP heads would suck (literally) harder than the SPs and therefor you need more gas to get the right compression mixture?

Or does it have nothing to do with the compression and the carb is specifically designed to work with SP OR DP heads?

12/9/2006 4:53:21 PM

i'd get a better carb regardless. i prefer weber.

[Edited on December 9, 2006 at 4:55 PM. Reason : .]

12/9/2006 4:55:03 PM

2bbl weber and intake pwnts 4 strombergs anyday, even on a stock engine

ftw:
http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/Product/tf-Browse/s-10101/Pr-p_Product.CATENTRY_ID:2010154/p-2010154/N-111+10210+600010209/c-10110


seriously:
[link]http://http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/Product/tf-Browse/s-10101/Pr-p_Product.CATENTRY_ID:2005265/p-2005265/N-111+10210+600004747/c-10110[/link]


http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/Product/tf-Browse/s-10101/Pr-p_Product.CATENTRY_ID:2005216/p-2005216/N-111+10210+600004810/c-10110


http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/Product/tf-Browse/s-10101/Pr-p_Product.CATENTRY_ID:2005620/p-2005620/N-111+10210+600005279/c-10110


you can build a ballin ass engine with twice the stock horsepower for less than $1k

[Edited on December 9, 2006 at 7:01 PM. Reason : ]

12/9/2006 6:54:14 PM

trust me, if I had that much to spend, a "ballin ass" engine would be in there.

I'm totally JUST looking to getting it running, though. Minimal cost. I MAY be convinced to getting the crank turned. MAYBE.

I realize the carb sucks, it's stock replacement, but hey-- it's basically new.

12/9/2006 9:19:04 PM

Stick with the dual port heads. All stock engines up to '74 had the single Solex carb, even with dual port heads. Unless you're talking Type III, which all had either fuel injection or dual Solexes.

you also need to stick with the later "doghouse" oil cooler, as it helps eliminate the hotspot on #3 cylinder, and subsequently burned/dropped valves on that cylinder. You can run doghouse with either the single port or dual port heads. Tin's available for either. Besides, it's the fan shroud that makes the difference, not the cylinder tin.


You want to know about VW, I can tell you a few things about VW.

If you're going for a rebuild, then get the drop-in 87mm jugs instead of the 85.5s, and if you have the extra money, get a set of Cima pistons/cylinders instead of cast stock. Displacement will go up to 1641cc from 1584cc (where JC Worthless got 1650, I don't know. Fuckers need to do their math).

Stick with the single Solex carb and center section, which will work fine all the way up to between 4000 and 4500 rpms. you'll notice a decent performance gain from running the Holley/Weber 32/36 DGV progressive two barrel carb, but they can be a little tricky to tune if you don't know what you're doing, and it's NOT a simple bolt-on affair. Neither are dual Kadron/Solex carbs or baby Webers, but they are a better setup if you want to go with a new carb.

My favorite cars of all time. And I mean OF ALL TIME. I would love to own another one, but it's not in the cards for the time being. I already got my fingers in too many pies...

12/9/2006 11:56:27 PM

BTW, if you stick with the stock case, you need to have it spec'ed and line-bored. And go with a good crank. Best one to go with is a Berg counterweighted crank. Quality piece, and well worth the extra money.

Don't even waste your time grinding the stock crank. If you go that route, just get a remanufactured one.

12/10/2006 12:03:05 AM

i didn't know what this was all about before. but i want in. the second my project car is running i've got plenty of free time. you know where to find me.

& i know some air cooled people, but... they scare me

[Edited on December 10, 2006 at 2:04 AM. Reason : *]

12/10/2006 2:04:11 AM

I scare your mom, valhalla


Thanks a lot for your comments, guys, I'll be talking more with you both


Lemme get church and this exam outta the way

12/10/2006 7:39:30 AM

go talk to the fellas @ T-Hoff. They have all that air cooled stuff all over their showroom

12/10/2006 12:26:51 PM

get James... he loves this shite... he's way busy these days and probably looking for an excuse to escape to

12/10/2006 12:27:03 PM

poke around on ncdubs.com.. there are a couple of aircooled gurus on there..

12/10/2006 3:11:21 PM

If it were me, I'd build a 2110cc engine. That's 90.5 mm jugs/pistons, 82mm stroke. I'd get custom barrels from somebody like AutoCraft so that I could run the 5.7" or 6" Chevy rods, and I'd get a custom crank built by either Scat or Gene Berg with 8 dowels and a wedgemate. I'd HAVE to run either the Scat case or a blueprinted brand new stock dual-relief universal case (less magnesium than the older cases and also has a place to bolt a rear mount) with appropriate reinforcements (in front of #3 cylinder, overbored and case-savered head stud holes, bored for 90.5mm barrels and reinforced around barrel spigots, etc)...

Follow up with a good oil pump and drill the main galley for full-flow application and a remote filter, oil thermostat, and second oil cooler (ya gotta keep the doghouse cooler too!).

Cam? A good Engle 110 grind would do me dandy.

Fuel? Induction? If I was to go traditional, I'd shoot for a pair of Weber 40 or 44 IDFs from Fast Freddy's. But I really like fuel injection. So that with custom siamesed throttle bodies a la Weber/Dellorto bolt pattern would be my favorite choice. Also makes it easier to turbo if you wanted to go that route. I think a single T25 turbo would be all I would want...appropriately wastegated and blow-off valved to a common plenum and then piped to each side. And limited to about 7, maybe 10 lbs boost. VW heads, even the 041 castings, don't really like all that much boost. So maybe I'd have to go with Scat heads. You can order aftermarket head castings that will bolt up to 90.5 barrels without flycutting AND they seal better as well in the quench area.

I swear, I wanna get another bug. I miss mine. BADLY.

12/10/2006 7:15:02 PM

^there's one on CL cheap. looks fairly solid from the pics. dude wants 400, sounds like he might take less.

12/10/2006 7:30:17 PM

Can I keep it at your house? My dad wants my 280 GONE, but I can't bring myself to part with it...and he would shit if I brought another car home. I gotta find a place in Bath to set up shop.

And the Teg made a round in the neighborhood today, but I still haven't gotten the sheetmetal on it yet. Soon, soon.

12/10/2006 7:48:58 PM

sure, i've even got a spare spot in the garage at the moment actually. i've cleared out a couple vehicles from the fleet recently. how long are we talking? drop me a pm.


[Edited on December 10, 2006 at 7:52 PM. Reason : .]

12/10/2006 7:50:36 PM

1914 ftw

12/10/2006 10:25:45 PM

fuck a bug

12/10/2006 11:48:39 PM

lol now we just need my brother to post that pic of his

12/11/2006 12:48:52 AM