I have been on a consistent diet and excercise this week and last. I have a few questions:

1.) I have been running 30mins and lifting for 30mins a day. Some days I would alternate (ie monday - run, tuesday - lift) now im merging them together (running and lifting) and I Rest on 7th day (sunday). This good? subpar? stupid?

2.) The first week before i started the consistent diet and excerise I lifted and was pretty sore. This week I have lifted longer and harder and I have yet to wake up the next day and feel sore. Should i bump the weight up more? I have been pretty much maxing out.

overall I feel really good and I have a lot of energy. My body isn't too sore and I feel motivated to work out the next day.

[Edited on December 8, 2006 at 5:30 PM. Reason : dd]

12/8/2006 5:29:52 PM

what are your goals and current stats?

[Edited on December 8, 2006 at 5:38 PM. Reason : ]

12/8/2006 5:36:32 PM

pack muscle on my upper frame (arms, chest, pecks in particular). I'm 215, 5'11, almost 6'0.

all the while, running and burning fat off.

I was planning on doing high reps during the summer to tone the muscle.

[Edited on December 8, 2006 at 5:40 PM. Reason : ss]

12/8/2006 5:40:06 PM

uhmm.. you can't really bump up the weight if you are maxing out.... so not sure what you meant there.


Also make sure you give your individual muscle groups at least a day off to rest.

12/8/2006 5:46:04 PM

Quote :

"uhmm.. you can't really bump up the weight if you are maxing out.... so not sure what you meant there."

I should be clearer.

Usually I was doing 3 to 4 sets of 10 reps and quiting.

I bumped the weight up 20-30lbs now I usually do 3 sets, but only 8-5 reps now. Maybe 10 on the first set.

I could bump it more, do 4 or 5 max, then maybe only do 2-3 sets.

12/8/2006 5:51:43 PM

Long pm sent. As for what you are doing now, it sucks.

High reps to tone is bullshit. "Tone" is low bodyfat and muscle beneath.

[Edited on December 8, 2006 at 5:57 PM. Reason : ]

12/8/2006 5:56:38 PM

if you have the time i would recommend running in the AM and then lifting after work/school before a big dinner

12/8/2006 6:24:23 PM

morning runs are the shit

12/8/2006 6:25:30 PM

Quote :

"Usually I was doing 3 to 4 sets of 10 reps and quiting. I bumped the weight up 20-30lbs now I usually do 3 sets, but only 8-5 reps now. Maybe 10 on the first set. I could bump it more, do 4 or 5 max, then maybe only do 2-3 sets."

i got good results by doing that and just mixing it up every 3 or 4 weeks

12/8/2006 6:28:03 PM

i'll definately start running more in the morning now that classes are pretty much over.

I am going to try incorporating the HIIT into my running for a month or so and hopefully see some results.

12/8/2006 6:45:44 PM

HIIT?

I've finally gotten my knee in a good enough shape to do a good deal of running, so I'm looking for any pointers I can find on a good program.

12/8/2006 7:18:28 PM

Quote :

"HIIT"

High-Intensity Interval Training

google search for more specifics of it.

In essence you want a warm up, bust your ass, come back down and jog, still going, bust your ass spirit again, etc. 20-30mins.

I have been sort of doing this already. I felt bursts of energy after running for about 10 mins and just spirited. I have often supressed it with the idea "i better not over do it, going to need the energy to run for another 10mins".

12/8/2006 8:18:56 PM

The number of reps/amount of weight debate is always ongoing, but I have always been under the impression that what really counts is how much stress you are putting on your muscle over time...

From http://www.wannabebig.com/article.php?articleid=259 :

Quote :

" After several weeks in the gym Bob notices that he isn’t getting sore, so he decides to increase the number of sets for each muscle group. As a result, the soreness returns, and Bob is happy once again. However, Bob notices that he is performing a large amount of working sets for each muscle group and is finding that his time in the gym is growing longer with each session. To add to this, the soreness he used to receive after his workouts has vanished. Bob is worried. What should he do? Should Bob: A. Increase his sets even further. B. Keep his sets the same and lower the reps. C. Change his workout routine. D. Self educate on the basics pertaining to strength training. ... However a beginner only needs to understand that the number one prerequisite to muscle growth is to overload it beyond what it is currently capable of handling. If you do not overload the muscles they will not grow ... "

I'm too lazy to post anymore of the highlights, but read the entire article, its good...

[Edited on December 8, 2006 at 10:57 PM. Reason : .]

12/8/2006 10:56:41 PM

Being sore doesn't ensure you had a good workout. Most soreness, especially delayed onset is caused by the stretching of the muscle.

[Edited on December 8, 2006 at 11:08 PM. Reason : G/S/P]

12/8/2006 11:03:41 PM

I thought you were sore because you were tearing muscles.

12/8/2006 11:07:04 PM

The eccentric movement causes a stretch, which creates tiny tears in the muscle resulting in soreness.

12/8/2006 11:10:34 PM

^^read that article, it is saying bob is uneducated b/c he thinks he needs to be sore after every workout...

12/8/2006 11:13:38 PM

Word, I just skimmed the thread

12/8/2006 11:15:39 PM

Quote :

"pack muscle on my upper frame (arms, chest, pecks in particular). I'm 215, 5'11, almost 6'0. all the while, running and burning fat off. I was planning on doing high reps during the summer to tone the muscle."

have you worked out before?? cause 215, 5'11 for someone who hasnt worked out in a while sounds like 20%+ body fat, if thats the case, then you should focus on burning fat. Do Cardio MWF, and lift hard on T and Th, and make sure your diet is negative.

i am 6'2, 215 18% bodyfat, so i am cutting down on the fat now. In the end its all about the %bodyfat, buy some calipers and keep track of that.

12/9/2006 1:02:15 PM

don't fall into the cardio bunny bullshit trap

12/9/2006 1:43:38 PM

Personally...I've found that speeding up your workout can help you create more of the "lean" muscle...as opposed to high reps.

When I was bigger, I rested a decent amount between sets and was therefore able to throw up more weight consistently because my muscles had more time to recuperate. Now I try to do my one hour and fifteen minute workout in an hour...or my hour workout in forty-five minutes. Add that to increased cardio and I'm about as lean as I can get with keeping most of my strength.

12/9/2006 3:34:11 PM

nm

[Edited on December 9, 2006 at 3:49 PM. Reason : ]

12/9/2006 3:48:47 PM

Quote :

"have you worked out before?? cause 215, 5'11 for someone who hasnt worked out in a while sounds like 20%+ body fat, if thats the case, then you should focus on burning fat. Do Cardio MWF, and lift hard on T and Th, and make sure your diet is negative."

Honestly, i was in the best shape of my life in middle school (8th grade). I had pecks and some what of a 4 pack. I was probably 170ish then. I played football back to back years. (county champions both years btw)

That fitness stuck with me all through highschool pretty much until my senior year. I have progressively gotten worse in college.

my diet has dwindled to pretty much water, OJ every now and then, whole wheat sammiches, apples, and other healthy items.

[Edited on December 9, 2006 at 5:26 PM. Reason : kk]

12/9/2006 5:25:11 PM

I was in this dilemma, about 8 months ago.

I was 5'8" and 187 and rising. The beer gut was in full effect and when I sat at my desk at work, my belly hit the table. I decided enough was enough and started going to the gym hard.

8 months later, I've lost about 15 lbs and dance between 170 and 175. I'm starting to climb up because of Muscle mass and Holiday fat which I hope to lose once I can start mountain biking again. (Winter = bad joints)

My only advice is to just keep working out and portion out your meals. It doesn't really matter if you do more reps or if you lift more weight, just so long as you are doing it.


For me, since I don't want to spend 4 hours in the gym, I increase the weights and not the reps. Also, you're sore because you're not used to lifting. Everyone goes through that their first time and if they haven't lifted in months.

I chalk it up to your body screaming, "WTF MATE? When did we start doing this?" and nothing more. So don't lift to the point that it hurts.


Just do it.

12/9/2006 9:13:49 PM

remember, if you are trying to pack on muscle mass,

its time under tension for muscle that matters, forget the weight/reps debate, you can either do high reps / lower weight or low reps / higher weight.


cardio is great, muscle mass is the best way to burn calories

oh and 90% of this whole thing is diet

12/9/2006 11:05:52 PM

nvm

[Edited on December 9, 2006 at 11:26 PM. Reason : good thread]

12/9/2006 11:26:02 PM

you cant pack on muscle and lose fat at the same time...choose which way you want to go and stick with it

12/10/2006 10:29:58 PM

http://www.mikemahler.com/newsletter/

Lots of stuff there. To me, this just makes sense:

From #98 (only pieces):

Quote :

"While there are literally hundreds of strength training exercises to choose from, very few are actually worth doing. The few exercises that are worth doing are the exercises that provide the most bang for your buck. In other words, the few exercises that are worth doing are your ticket to massive increases in strength, size, and or muscular conditioning depending on what your goals are and how the exercises are implemented.. I like to refer to these exercises as the "20% Club." I get a ton emails from people that are incredulous about the benefits of training programs that emphasize compound exercises. Compound exercises work several muscles at a time. Some great examples are: The Clean and Press, Pull-ups, Squats, and Deadlifts. Many men do not believe they can get big well developed arms without doing any isolation exercises. On the other hand, many women do not believe they can tone up without focusing on isolation exercises for the glutes, inner thighs, and midsection. Of course, the reality is much different. At this point you may be wondering where all of the upper body exercises are? Lets drive an important point home before moving forward. The majority of your body is not in your upper body. According to Dr. Al Sears author of, "The Doctor's Heart Cure" "your upper body only contains about 15 percent of your body's total muscle mass. If your increased their size by 200 percent, you would not notice a measurable difference in your body's total muscle mass." Dr. Sears goes on to state that working the quadriceps and hamstrings are the keys to building substantial muscle mass. Yes, men I hate to tell you this but doing twenty sets of curls and fifty sets of triceps pushdowns are not the secrets to building a powerful body. In fact for most trainees doing any isolation work is a waste of time."

Then pieces from #99:

Quote :

"Most trainees should be taking exercises out of their regimens rather than adding more in. You can only focus on a few things successfully so when in doubt leave it out. If you have trouble on all four categories, strip it down further. For example do the Clean and Press and Squat and that is it for a month. Then switch to the Floor Press and Deadlift for a month. If you can handle all four categories, feel free to add in some core work such as weighted sit-ups, hanging leg raises, Turkish Get-ups, or Windmills. Beyond that you could add in a few sets of some isolation work to address a weak link. However, that is only beneficial for advanced trainees. Work on putting up some great numbers on the 20% club before you even think of that. For example get your Floor press up to 300lbs, Clean and Press up to 200lbs, Squat up to 400lbs and Deadlift up to 500lbs. Once you have done that, you may benefit from some isolation work. Otherwise, isolation work is generally a waste of time. Think you are the exception to the rule? You are not so repeat this mantra "I am not an exception to the 20% club" as many times as necessary to get is down. "

Do what you like though.

12/10/2006 11:39:31 PM

Quote :

"you cant pack on muscle and lose fat at the same time...choose which way you want to go and stick with it "

Wrong. If you are lift weights hard, fast, or after a run your heart rate will go up to the fatburn or cardio zone of between 40-80% your max heart rate. So while you are on the bench press and not taking your sweet-ass time lifting you are essentially packing on muscle and losing fat.


Plus, the more muscle you put on, the easier your body is able to burn fat. It isn't a complete solution, but trust me, having more muscle doesn't DECREASE your ability to burn it.

12/11/2006 12:30:54 AM

^but in order to gain weight...

you need to increase your calories
to decrease your weight, you will need to decrease your calories

so to put on muscle, you need to increase calories

how are you going to lose weight while increasing calories

i guess it depends on how much weight loss / body fat you are trying to lose and how much muscle you are trying to gain...

i have always heard / read it was hard to do both at once

12/11/2006 11:04:11 AM

it's not impossible to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time, but it is rather difficult

usually the only people that can do this to any significant degree are people just starting out who haven't lifted before

If this is your primary goal than you should try body recomposition
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/

[Edited on December 11, 2006 at 11:46 AM. Reason : ]

12/11/2006 11:45:57 AM

It's possible to burn fat while building muscle. You have to get enough protein while keeping the total calories down, but that's easy when you're young. The increased muscle mass will also burn more calories 24x7. (I'm talking about most people, not athletes who are already in peak condition.)

12/11/2006 11:49:04 AM

Lyle knows his shit:

Quote :

"The basic question that continues to come up is "How come newbies can gain muscle and lose fat but more advanced guys can't." First and foremost, I want to point out that only fat newbies can accomplish this, lean guys are not going to lean out significantly while gaining muscle. And I think this points us partly in the right direction. Way back when, when I first got on the track of leptin (oh, about 98 I think), a lot of what leptin was doing (and note that leptin is related to bodyfat levels) seemed to explain at least part of this. Leptin turned out to be the big missing middle puzzle piece that I"d been looking for for about 10 years. So consider a fat untrained individual. Because of all of the bodyfat they are carrying, there are a bunch of adapations that have occurred which, given the right stimulus, is going to make them *more effectively* mobilize fat for fuel. I know I"ve discussed this before but now expect a zillion and one questions. But when you look at that actual adaptations in terms of whole body (especially fat cell) insulin resistance, it's clear that they occur in an attempt to limit further fat gain/help with fat loss once the excess calories are removed. The fat cells are resistant to insulin (meaning insulin can't be anti-lipolytic) leptin would be limiting food intake if the brain weren't resistant, leptin is trying to push fatty acid oxidation (except that muscle is alos resistant), there are tons of fatty acids n the bloodstream just waiting to be burned, &c. So even in the face of high insulin or whatever, fatty acids can be mobilize for fuel. Read that last sentence again, especially given the role of insulin in muscle growth. So I think that's the first part of the story. The body is primed to use a lot of fat for fuel under those conditions. Going back to 98, this is actually what led me to leptin, trying to figure out why fatter people can lose fat with less LBM loss compared to lean. So I started looking at the differences physiologically in fat people vs. lean people. And kept coming back to leptin (which I'd been deliberately ignoring for years). Which turns out to be part (but certainly not the entire picture). But I digress. But it's not the whole story. The other part of it and at this point I get way off into speculation land I think has to do with being relatively more untrained. Everybody knows that beginners respond better to training than anybody else. Primarily because they are so far from their genetic potential. They have more 'room to grow' to put it one way. This is true of everything, first year of any training is when you will make the most massive gains, unless you're training is retarded. And as you get closer to your genetic limits, things start to level off and you reach an asymptote. And I think that the two factors together are what allow it to happen. You're in a situation where a. muscle can be gained quite easily b. fat can be lost quite easily Because both are so far below (in the case of muscle) or above (in the case of fat) genetic limits. That's on top of all the hormonal/energetic stuff going on when you're fat. The body is trying to push fatty acids away from storage and towards fat oxidation, even in the face of a relatively anabolic hormonal state. But a fat but trained individual doesn't have both factors going no. They may have plenty of fat to lose but they don't have a ton of muscle to gain. No newbie effect. A semi-lean but muscular individual has to drop insulin to mobilize/burn fat for fuel at any effective rate. Which limits their anabolic potential (and this is ignoring all of the stuff going on in the muscle with AMPk and protien synthesis and all that crap). They can lose fat but they can't gain muscle at the same time. And, in a muscle gaining mode, you're in a net anabolic state anyhow. You can't lose fat and gain muscle at the same time for the most part. "

12/11/2006 11:52:14 AM

Quote :

"unless you're training is retarded."

12/11/2006 12:18:59 PM

one day I'll be back into. just rest on the Sabbath, B. no matter what.


To God Be The Glory, G.


- 5, B. 5.

12/11/2006 12:23:46 PM

Quote :

"^but in order to gain weight..."

I am talking about building muscle. you can build muscle and lose fat at the same time.

weight might stay the same, but you should differentiate between, fat, muscle, and weight.

12/11/2006 12:27:58 PM

is it ok to work the same muscle or muscle group if you're still sore from the last workout?

i killed my shit on friday.

12/12/2006 3:06:36 PM

Sure Why Not? I usually feel better.

Quote :

"Floor press up to 300lbs"

How many people on here really do floor press?

12/12/2006 3:21:59 PM

I have worked out for a long time, almost 10+ years, and I've had these same worries "I'm not getting sore, my workout sucks". Being sore is not the key, but if you really do want to feel sore, mix up your exercises.

Try doing more power-lifter types exercises like power cleans, dead lift, clean and jerk, standing military presses, squats, barbell rows, etc. Anytime I mix these into my workouts, it always wrecks my body until I get used to them. I'll always keep a few of these exercises in my regular routine, but I just trade them in and out in order to avoid getting "too used to them" (if that makes sense).

12/12/2006 3:24:46 PM

someone posted this workout in some other thread, and i decided to try it. im not overweight or anything, but my workout had grown stale and i was looking for more diversity. im almost finished with phase 2, and ive already seen some great improvements in my strength. in addition, ive switched from long medium intensity cardio to HIIT. I've only been doing HIIT for 2 weeks now, but so far I like it.

http://www.menshealth.com/cda/article.do?site=MensHealth&channel=fitness&conitem=9bd999edbbbd201099edbbbd2010cfe793cd____

12/12/2006 3:25:14 PM

Cleans and Jerks are Olympic movements

12/12/2006 3:26:22 PM

^ So what? Are you saying that power lifters don't do Clean and Jerks?

12/12/2006 3:27:54 PM

Hey i have a question for you guys. While I appear physically fit (5'7" @ 142lbs w/ 11% body fat) I am horribly out of shape. I mean if I run a short distance i'm winded, if you touch my stomach you feel little resistance and I can probably only do about 5 push ups.

I'm not looking to get big, but only to be in shape so would running every other day and doing push ups/curls and crunches on the opposite days be enough to start getting me in shape, or is there more i should focus on?

12/12/2006 3:45:23 PM

^^Not on a regular basis. But you called them powerlifting movements, just clearing up any confusion.

12/12/2006 3:48:20 PM

Quote :

"I'm not looking to get big, but only to be in shape so would running every other day and doing push ups/curls and crunches on the opposite days be enough to start getting me in shape, or is there more i should focus on?"

Yes, this is what we did in the ARMY. I never touched a gym. It is enough to get you fit. We had morning PT where we would do everything in one day. The 'rest' days were for motorpool, and other things.

Powerlifting the world (which seems to be the goal of a lot of people) wouldn't do much with that.

12/12/2006 5:08:41 PM

3 weeks now and seeing slight results. A few muscles around the shoulder area coming out now and my chest feels tighter.

stomach area hasn't changed much, going to incorporate more crunches every other day.

12/12/2006 5:30:34 PM

^ don't get to self absorbed with your gut just yet. It'll come off with time. Our gut is almost the polar opposite to women's boobies, its the last to go when you work out.


For right now I would focus on your larger muscles, that is your chest, back and legs. The larger muscles are the easiest to work out and will help you burn more fat in the long run. I forget the equation but Its something for every pound of muscle you have you burn a certain amount of calories.


Plus if you focus too much on your abs, your gonna have a ton of muscle there, but there will still be a layer of fat and still have a pot belly. Then you'll like one of those 80s wrestler freaks.


Be patient. It'll come.

12/14/2006 8:01:41 PM

^ yeah, i have heard something like that before.

i feel 10x better (physically and mentally) than i did 2 months ago. Going to keep at it through out the holidays. might fuck up my diet on christmas and what not, but I think i can make up for that.

12/15/2006 7:59:35 AM

^just stay on your diet 6 days a week over the holidays and give yourself one "cheat" meal when you can eat whatever you want...it'll keep you from going crazy from depriving yourself of all the good holiday junk food

12/15/2006 11:25:59 AM

what is the name of the cheapo gym $10/month...didn't the one by wolf creek close down?

if so, whats the name and the other locations? I'm trying to pickup a cheap gym that I can go to while ncsu gym is closed for the holidays

12/15/2006 4:55:53 PM