I am writing a thesis paper proving that classic rock music and musicians of the time such as Eddie Van Halen, Steve Vai, Joe Satriani, Yngwie Malmsteen, etc. are "better" than the musicians and bands of the modern rock era?

Does anyone have any ideas of any aspects I can research such as composition, political stance/song meaning, lyrics, etc.


thanks

10/29/2006 10:41:58 PM

lawl

10/29/2006 10:44:16 PM

Well for one you could focus on how record labels and mainstream pop has caused modern rockers to try and aim and please over writing good impacting music. The 4 chord patterns and lack of powerful solos along with uninspired lyrics. By modern rock i gather that you mean Nickelback and bands like that correct? Or do you mean the 'pop punk' scene as well?

you could talk about how "classic rock" was mainly influenced by events of the time. For example the Vietnam war was a mainstay for many artists. Crosby, Stills, and Nash and Neil Young are good examples.


add: Why did you choose this topic without any ideas of your own?

[Edited on October 29, 2006 at 10:52 PM. Reason : i mean really]

10/29/2006 10:49:07 PM

I have ideas of my own, just wanted to get ideas from other people. I am tryin got narrow down the different aspects I would like to focus on in the paper such as composition. I would like to maybe narrow it down to maybe 5 main ideas to write about. Let me know if you have any suggestions on how to break it up.

Thanks

10/29/2006 11:24:16 PM

i just wanted to add that "BJ-Angel" makes me laugh my ass off

10/29/2006 11:25:31 PM

Eddie Van Halen was a cheating piece of crap who played with is back to the crowd.


other than that classic rockers are better because they were the first of their kind IMO.

Guys like Hendrix came along when nobody had done what they were doing with a guitar.

You're hard pressed to find something that sounds like original 60's/70's music (the best imo) that hasnt been done before.

10/29/2006 11:38:25 PM

There is plenty of good rock out there now, its just not popular. The musicianship required to make popular rock music is nearly nonexistent. Any guy with a guitar can tune to drop D, put together 3 or 4 chords, and scream like an idiot. Another thing is "classic" rock i.e. Skynyrd, Zeppelin, Hendrix, AC/DC, VH...that was guitar dominated while stuff today is based on "catchy-ness", sit-in songwriting, etc. You can't really group instrumentals (Satriani) with popular music: its more of an art form than pop rock.

IMO: The "rock" music of today is not Rock 'n' Roll.

10/29/2006 11:45:00 PM

I agree with that. I cant stand groups like Nickelback and Creed. Mainstreem 90's music was closer to the good stuff than the crap you hear today, and it fell off at the end anyway. Black crowes did it pretty well...one of my favorite bands not from the 60's or 70's.

10/29/2006 11:55:43 PM

Quote :

"The "rock" music of today is not Rock 'n' Roll."

10/30/2006 1:36:00 AM

Jimmy Page. I mean, who compares nowadays?

but yeah, you first need to define 'better' and what metric you are using.

Is the fact that kids these days listening to hiphop reflect that rock has gone down the tubes? Where have the Page's gone to inspire a generation? Is there anybody out there?(sorry about that)

Which really pisses me off. What happened to white high school kids going to see rock bands on the weekends? Now most every club plays some stupid rap shit and a bunch of little white middle class suburbanites run around and pretend they're gangsta's. WTF

RIP Mad Monk.

10/30/2006 7:42:44 AM

words:

I'm assuming this is just a general topic until you've done more research. If not you should probably narrow it down to one or two things, i.e. composition, lyrics, creativity/originality, guitar playing, etc.. Then how are you going to measure these things?

Things to consider

You should ask yourself if you want to compare all rock music of that era to that of this era or just popular rock music of each respective era. Or just the big names, since you just listed 4 guys off of the "best guitarists of all time" list. Also, all of their bands make "guitar music", the guitar is the focus.

You should consider the fact that the record industry is different, companies today will put out anything that will make them a buck... how many "one hit wonders" are there today compared to back then (i really don't know, but perhaps it's something you should consider)? Also record companies don't like to take risks, so what you get is mediocre, formulaic music. The more original artists are on smaller labels that don't get much exposure. Remember, those guys you mentioned played a role in changing the way music sounded... even if mainstream bands still played like that they'd just be duplicators/imitators. Maybe a more interesting topic would be how they influenced music or how music is being influenced today compared to then.

Are you really talking about music or guitar? Because Yngwie Malmsteen is nasty on the guitar technically speaking, but his bands' music has never done anything special for me. Same with steve vai, I love watching the guy play but I rarely sit down and listen to his music. Or maybe what you're really talking about is soloing, because a lot of the old classic riffs aren't really that complicated or hard to play. So then the question is; Can guitar players really not solo anymore or do they choose not to, and why is this?

Have you looked at all rock (metal?)? or just the pop-rock that's played on the radio? There's a huge difference.

Is this really a fair comparison considering that most young musicians today have a much larger variety of influences than back then and may in turn be drawn away from the rock genre where they can do something a little more original?

That style of rock has been done. Not to mention that particular style of music was generally the popular form of music then, where as now it's not. There just weren't as many (pre-paved) directions for one to go with their musical and creative abilities as today. Do you really expect people to keep doing the same thing over and over again?

Are you being bias? are there really not any good guitar players in modern rock or just not the style you like?

what constitutes "good", or what makes classic rock "better" than modern? Doesn't this mostly come down to personal preference? Is it based on technical ability, musicianship, creativity/originality, some combination of all those components? How do you measure any of this stuff? The only thing you could really measure is record sales, you'd have to factor in whether or not people buy more albums today compared to then but you could theoretically compare the two in that regard.

Is there really any "right way" to play an instrument?

What about people like Tom Morello who got big playing a very non-traditional style, but very original? I've never heard anyone else who sounded like Rage Against the Machine. I've heard people make an attempt, but not actually pull it off, though if you want to hear more "rock" like music from him you can listen to audioslave. What about guys like Adam Jones of Tool, i don't know how good the guy really is (he's not typically highly regarded by guitar purists), i just know what he puts on records. And just because he doesn't come out soloing and mostly plays in drop d, that doesn't me he can't. He seems to be more interested in creating sounds and texture and adding to the whole than playing scales. I wouldn't put him anywhere near Malmsteen on the guitar player list but he'd be way above malmsteen on the original/creative musician or guitar player list. And I'd listen to tool's music way before anything by malmsteen. John Frusciante? What about John Mayer or Jonny Lang (2 young guys who can shred), Robert Cray? The guys you listed are generally blues/early rock influenced,... have you looked at modern blues (the 3 previously mentioned guitar players, who played Crossroads along with Steve Vai)? So once again is it really that people can't/don't do it anymore, or is just not at the forefront of mainstream music? Perhaps you should take more of a social approach to this, as in "Why isn't "x" style of music as popular as it once was".

You should start a thread in entertainment asking about the best guitar players of today and years past... or ask why, or maybe just whether or not the music of that era is in fact "better" than now just to see what other kids have to say. It may give you some idea of where to start.

Unless you know the band members themselves and their musical abilities you can't prove that any one band, and definitely not that any one style is better than another (it's absurd that you even suggested you could). Even if you could vouch for their musicianship it comes down to what people want to hear. It doesn't matter if it's technically correct if i don't like it.

and the obligatory; You're a senior at a major university... do your own work.

10/30/2006 11:14:52 AM

Quote :

"Jimmy Page. I mean, who compares nowadays? "

nobody, and dont try to suggest otherwise or I'll jump through the computer and stab you.

10/30/2006 11:47:29 AM

bj angel lol

10/30/2006 11:48:58 AM

music, imo, is way more diversified today. with internet music proliferation anyone can find any sound you like. in say the 60's/70's there may have not been many other choices than rock (i know there were some, but not as many as today).

due to this there is mainstream garbage as well as brilliant non-mainstream bands.

a lot of jam bands and live performers today have hella good guitar skills and could compete with the likes of classic rockers, except they dont get the airplay or facetime that they did.

[Edited on October 30, 2006 at 1:47 PM. Reason : have, not of]

10/30/2006 1:46:36 PM

wolfAApack == don't know crap about the evolution of rock music.....especially about EVH and/or
guitarplaying.....he probably listens to The Wiggles

10/30/2006 4:18:57 PM

bjangel2....props to you for writing such a paper....send me a copy when you're done if you don't mind....sounds very interesting....the 3 to 4 chord modern rock just plain out blows.....no skills....no leads, no arpeggios, ....the list just goes on.....

10/30/2006 4:25:03 PM

i've never heard so many people defend classic rock by saying that today's music only uses "three or four chords"

AC/DC built their career on 3 chords

ZZ Top as well

What I have found is that the pentatonic scales have all but become a thing of the past, whereas most solos say 18-20 years ago often began from that starting point. Also, the evolution of the bass player has coincided with the downplaying of the lead guitarists; to the point where now most lead singers ARE the lead guitarists... which was almost unheard of back in the day. The songs are written from the drums and bass, as opposed to being written from the guitar; what results is a more prominent rhythm, and less focus on melody.

The whole maintsream/indie argument is dumb as shit. Don't even go there, it's retarded and played out.

10/30/2006 6:28:20 PM

Nirvana killed musicianship

10/30/2006 7:35:01 PM

i blame punk, but yea

10/30/2006 7:39:51 PM

all in all...there's no more talent in today's "rock" music....if that's what you want to call it.....it's all garbage to me....

10/30/2006 9:25:26 PM

AC/DC rocks with 3 to 4 chords....cause Angus and Malcom have mean riffs and bone crunching leads....

10/30/2006 9:31:13 PM

this reminds me of a great song.

Quote :

" Fun Fun Fun in the fluffy chair Flame up the herb Woof down the beer [click!] Hi I'm your video DJ I always talk like I'm wigged out on quaaludes I wear a satin baseball jacket everywhere I go My job is to help destroy What's left of your imagination By feeding you endless doses Of sugar-coated mindless garbage So don't create Be sedate Be a vegetable at home And thwack on that dial If we have our way even you will believe This is the future of rock and roll How far will you go How low will you stoop To tranquilize our minds with your sugar-coated swill You've turned rock and roll rebellion Into Pat Boone sedation Making sure nothing's left to the imagination M.T.V. Get off the M.T.V. Get off the M.T.V. Get off the air Get off the air See the latest rejects from the muppet show Wag their tits and their dicks As they lip-synch on screen There's something I don't like About a band who always smiles Another tax write-off For some schmuck who doesn't care M.T.V. Get off the air And so it was Our beloved corporate gods Claimed they created rock video Allowing it to sink as low in one year As commercial TV has in 25 "It's the new frontier," they say It's wide open, anything can happen But you've got a lot of nerve To call yourself a pioneer When you're too god-damn conservative To take real chances. Tin-eared Graph-paper brained accountants Instead of music fans Call all the shots at giant record companies now The lowest common denominator rules Forget honesty Forget creativity The dumbest buy the mostest That's the name of the game But sales are slumping And no one will say why Could it be they put out one too many lousy records?!? M.T.V.-Get off the air! NOW"

[Edited on October 30, 2006 at 9:37 PM. Reason : er]

10/30/2006 9:37:18 PM

You should also look at the equipment involved. Look at the early guys, and where they recorded. Look at the sun studio equipment and the warm, homey tone that was generated. In the 60's and 70's, very few of the bands you mentioned used anything but marshall amplification. The plexi's were (and still are) the choice heads (the 1959slp for example). These marshalls were famous for producing the warm tone (tube heads vs solid state). Listen to the allman brothers band, bad company, or any band from this era and you will hear a warmer sound. Satch, Yngwie, and Vai all use effects to get their tones while the "classic" groups used little effects and let the tubes produce the tones. EVH created his famous sound from running a 100W marshall head though a powerbrake to get the famous marshall crunch at a lower volume. Anyway, I could go on and on about this.

By my definition, classic rock began with Chuck Berry and his blues based rock with the pentatonic/blues scale solo. From then on, it was still blues based, just louder. The solo used to be a chance for an artist to express the music. You had guys like Hendrix, Clapton, and Allman doing things no one else had done on the guitar and they all developed different stylings. Also, phrasing was used. A big part of each style was how the guitarist phrased their notes. Notice I said "artist". Alot of the bands today do not write their own music. Song writers are paid to write the music (probably why they all sound alike), because this is what "sells".

Anyway, I am starting to rant. Just know that the equipment was different, the phrasing was completely different, and the guitar used to be a way to express yourself, not just a way for teenagers to pick up chicks.

10/30/2006 10:38:22 PM

Quote :

"wolfAApack == don't know crap about the evolution of rock music.....especially about EVH and/or guitarplaying.....he probably listens to The Wiggles "

you're right. I listen to the wiggles, and EVH was god.

Tell me he didnt play using synthesizers and effect pedals to produce some of his insane guitar solos...if you do you're lying. I'm not saying he wasnt a good musician, but he wasnt the greatest guitar player alive like I hear many people argue. When you layer riffs you're not playing guitar.


who the fuck are the wiggles btw?

10/30/2006 11:51:12 PM

he wasn't the greatest at all, he just popularized/mastered tapping...tapping techniques and whammy bars don't qualify as "effects"...aside from using a DL4 (which evh would have no use for), how do you layer guitar riffs for a live performance, without looping etc

10/31/2006 12:04:48 AM

looping...same as cheating. When your fingers arent moving as fast as the notes you're playing, you're cheating imo...to each his own though.

Maybe he didnt though...some of it sounds fake to me...thats all.

[Edited on October 31, 2006 at 3:27 PM. Reason : ]

10/31/2006 3:18:19 PM

^you have to see him play first before you can make those assumptions.....he used mad legato and tapping of course......but all those aren't effects.....the only effects used were a rackmount delay, an EVH Phase 90 of course, a noise gate, a flanger, and a good ole wah.....

BTW....what kind of music do you listen to? The type of music a man listens to can say a lot about him.

10/31/2006 3:37:16 PM