but I have little experience with them and dont know the process for purchasing them, so point me in the right direction

I've enjoyed going to the range with a friend, but since I am new and I'm not really sure yet I don't want to spend a lot of money on my first gun. someone recomended a kel-tec p11 as a first gun. i want to try to find something used for not much over $200, if thats possible for a decent quality gun

8/30/2006 10:59:17 PM

http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=428942

8/30/2006 11:25:30 PM

If you don't know much about them, I highly recommend you take a class about them to become educated about the various types and functions of each. Any local range should offer such a class.

Now, for the buying. To purchase a handgun you must either have:

A) A Concealed Carry Permit, or
B) Pistol Purchase Permit

It's probably a safe guess to say you don't have "A". To obtain B, you must go to the Sherrif's office and apply for one. In about 1 week, you go back downtown to pick it up. You can then take that to a store and purchase a handgun.

If you want to stay under $200, a Makarov is probably your best bet. They fire the 9x18 cartridge, which is comparable to the .380 ACP. I got one for $150 and have found it to be extremely reliable and easy to care for.

[Edited on August 30, 2006 at 11:50 PM. Reason : 2]

8/30/2006 11:50:19 PM

spend $250-300 and get a used SIG P226 from Lawmen's Supply.

take a knowledgeable friend with you to select the pick of the litter. they will likely have a number of them.

8/31/2006 12:01:56 AM

Well, I'm going to assume that you're...

a.) Not a felon
b.) 21 or older
c.) A citizen or green carded immigrant

Anyway, what do you want to do with your first handgun? If you're not looking for a carry piece immediately, the obvious answer is to find a nice .22 handgun you like in your price range (Ruger Mk.III and Browning Buckmark are the most popular ones) and buy it, and then get oodles of trigger time until sight alignment, trigger press, etc. become pure muscle memory.

If you get into guns at all, it's not like you won't end up buying one anyway.

8/31/2006 12:57:44 AM

Quote :

"If you want to stay under $200, a Makarov is probably your best bet."

I heard those were junk, true?

^And I don't want to carry it immediately, but I would like something that would allow me to carry later on. So I am probably not interested in .22

oh and I was planning on taking a class, where is the best place to go for that

[Edited on August 31, 2006 at 6:32 AM. Reason : .]

8/31/2006 6:31:38 AM

Where can I get a Desert Eagle? I wanna concealed carry permit for my own hand cannon.

8/31/2006 7:37:54 AM

^^
Ehh. Whatever.

Makarovs are fine. Try to get a Bulgarian. Or for something a bit more refined, consider a CZ82.

8/31/2006 7:49:53 AM

buying guns becomes an addiction.

8/31/2006 8:11:03 AM

i might be selling some soon

8/31/2006 8:12:05 AM

^
Whaddya got?

8/31/2006 8:42:55 AM

Where in Raleigh is the best place to purchase a hand gun?

8/31/2006 9:20:50 AM

I'm fond of PDHSC. Prices are fair (nothing special, high or low), service is great, selection's pretty good (they have pretty much the whole Springfield 1911 and XD line, but they also get other guns in/through often), etc. etc.. I buy milsurps there since they get those in pretty regularly too. They will special-order a gun for you too, they just require you to pay up front.

I keep hoping that the poor forlorn CZ 75B (9mm) that's been sitting in the display case for like three months now will still be there in January.

[Edited on August 31, 2006 at 9:29 AM. Reason : .]

8/31/2006 9:28:38 AM

yep, PDHSC is the place to go.

Lawmen's Supply down the street from them is also good for police surplus guns and stuff.

8/31/2006 10:42:50 AM

pdhc or lawmans is the 2 best in the area as far as I'm concerned

8/31/2006 10:47:45 AM

DON'T do any business with Davi's. Man, that place sucks.

8/31/2006 11:48:38 AM

^
Young Guns (in Apex) is also pretty godawful.

8/31/2006 12:05:15 PM

Regarding Lawmen's, do they sell to private citizens? Their guns all indicate a requirement for police ID of some sort.

8/31/2006 1:09:03 PM

This guy's got what you need:
http://brentroad.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=428942

Cheap!

8/31/2006 1:09:07 PM

^^yeah, you can't buy a light bar or a badge from them unless you're LE, but you can buy guns. I bought a SIG from them a few years ago.

8/31/2006 2:57:59 PM

^^
Ah geez don't listen to Pyro. Jennings pistols are awful.

8/31/2006 3:00:28 PM

wont find any used sigs down there in the $200 range, they dont have as many as they used to.

8/31/2006 5:50:37 PM

how about the kel-tec, and opinions on that?

8/31/2006 5:56:04 PM

I'd probably just save my money and get something good. try sig, glock, kahr, HK.

ruger autos are pretty good, esp. as a starter gun, just big and clunky.

springfield XD's are also a good choice, lots of people seem to like them.

I like HK personally, a USP compact .45 is my personal carry gun.

I'd go to a range (PDHSC) and try a good selection of guns before you buy so you can see what you like best. so for a carry gun in 9mm for example try a glock 19, XD compact, khar CW9, etc.

maybe Fumbler will chime in here

8/31/2006 6:29:54 PM

Seriously though, if you want cheap, check out Bersa Thunders. Less than $200 new and never misfire.

[Edited on August 31, 2006 at 7:24 PM. Reason : I think they have them in .380, 9x19 and .45 now]

[Edited on August 31, 2006 at 7:24 PM. Reason : oh, and .40]

8/31/2006 7:23:44 PM

^^^, sort of ^^
Actually, Kel-Tecs are incredible value for the money. They're not as "good" as the big names (HK, Sig, Glock, Walther, Springfield, CZ, Beretta, etc.), but they are very solid weapons.

Pick up a Kel-Tec P3AT (say it out loud and it will make sense) and compare to a PPK. The PPK will be much more polished, etc.. But the P3AT will be lighter, more compact, and just as effective a weapon.

etc. etc. etc.

Kel-Tec is underrated when it comes to their pistols, and their pistol carbine (the SUB-2000) is pure genius: they are designed and marketed for magazine compatibility with the major pistol makers (except HK, I think). And the SU16 is a surprisingly nice rifle.

8/31/2006 10:34:56 PM

8/31/2006 10:49:44 PM

Howcome nobody has mentioned smith and wesson? Just cause they're expensive, or are they not real dependable?

8/31/2006 11:03:12 PM

how does going to a shooting range work? do you have to have your own gun, or do they have ones you can use? i don't have one - could i take one of my dad's if i wanted? how much money is it? i've never shot a gun before and want to try one of those target practice ones where you shoot at the outline of the person.

8/31/2006 11:06:10 PM

^^
Shit. Yeah, forgot all about that...

Mainly just expensive. I want an S&W 41 and 617 SOOO badly...but check out the going rates.

And I'm not very fond of their semiautomatic centerfire pistols (whether the actual S&W pieces or the Walthers).

^
Depends, on the range and on the gun. Rifles, the closest decent rifle range is the FETC. Their schedule's a little whack, and they charge $10/hour on the range. A pretty nice range is Range One (about 1:00~1:15 south of "campus area"), $15 for "all day", but it's kind of far away. Pistols, PDHSC charges $15, for as long as you want—and they have guns you could rent.

Anyway, lots of gunners around on the boards. PM me if you'd like me to arrange something.

[Edited on August 31, 2006 at 11:13 PM. Reason : .]

8/31/2006 11:13:37 PM

in the $200 range, you will be able to find firearms that are pretty reliable (functionally speaking) but the accuracy will be terrible. If you just want something that goes "bang" and you could eventually use as a carry gun, then look for a decent makarov.

However, if you actually enjoy shooting firearms and would like to be able to brag about your 2 inch off hand group at 25 yards, then you are going to need to spend significantly more than 200 dollars.

9/1/2006 1:42:21 AM

I'm kinda in the market for a gun, too. I have shot before, but do not own a gun.

I was thinking about some type of wheel gun - maybe a .380. I plan to mainly use it for protection, but also plan to get a concealed license. Anyone have suggestions?

9/1/2006 5:30:02 AM

^^ well i wont be entering any competitions, but i never blame my tools

9/1/2006 6:19:27 AM

Try Perry's Gun Shop in Wendell. I bought my wife her pistol from there and got a good deal. Plus those guys really know their stuff. Also Barry's Daughter is a student at NCSU. The High Point firearms have a real low price and a lifetime warr. If they mess up you send em back and 99% of the time the send you a brand new one. They are not the most accurate gun but they make just as much noise as any other one and thats all I wanted. Plus Im not sure I want my wife that accurate for my sake.

9/1/2006 8:16:34 AM

^^^^
That is not at ALL true. (At least, not on the milsurp market—basically everything winds up a lot cheaper than it would be if made new, because someone already paid for the things once.) Sometimes it's the case with new-production guns, but generally the pistols which are so cheaply made as to be inaccurate are unsafe anyway...and I'd mock you to death for buying over-cheap rifles anyway. :p

A military surplus Makarov won't be any less accurate than any modern gun, really. They may be old, but they were (like most issue pistols) used lightly, and had to meet accuracy and reliability requirements.

Slightly more expensive, you have the CZ82 option (I linked to them earlier on thread; AIMSurplus has them). The CZ82/83 design is just wonderful. The CZ82 was the issue Czech pistol for...well, it still is. (They might be moving to the CZ75 by now, I'm not sure.) And the Czechs do not fuck around when it comes to guns. These things are freakishly accurate. Little more expensive than Makarovs, but for good reason. A new CZ83, retail, will cost you around $300~$350. I'll also note that CZs are (for their quality level) underpriced compared to their peers on the US market.

^^^
.380 is a small caliber for a semiautomatic pistol. Do you mean .38 special? Anyhow, if you're looking for a .357 (.38 special for practice/plinking, .357 for "social" uses), there are lots of good options. If you want something for concealed carry, look through Taurus, Smith & Wesson, and Ruger options. You'll probably want a 2" barrel for concealability, and a 6- or 5-shot frame. Can't help you much beyond that; I tend to prefer semiautos.

^^
With guns, if you get into them, you will come to resent the ones which seem to put bullets in odd places. And it's always nice to get a decent trigger. If you don't mind having to hunt around a little (it's cheaply available online, just scarce in retail shops) for 9mm Mak, sounds like the CZ82's for you. If you're looking for something easy to shoot to start with and that can be used later on as a carry piece, may as well splurge the extra $50-ish and get something nice.

***

I'll note that all you guys mentioning that you want "a" gun for target shooting/home protection, and carry "later", are making life harder on yourselves (if not your bank accounts). The needs for a carry piece—maximum concealability, meaning high power:weight—are pretty much the reverse of what you want for a non-concealed piece. I would not want to blast off more than a couple of cylinders of .357 from a small 2" revolver...and I would not want to conceal a full-size USP .40. If you enjoy abuse, either will work (and you certainly wouldn't be undergunned with the latter), but it's really best to get different guns for different roles.

^
Ah yes...the Hi-Point. I have to say, I like their carbines, and their pistols work, but they aren't elegant at all (price is right, though) and they feel really weird if you're used the balance of most other pistols.

[Edited on September 1, 2006 at 8:30 AM. Reason : Ninja'ed]

9/1/2006 8:20:01 AM

The biggest concern with cheap handguns is moreso reliability than accuracy. I'd worry about a $150 one not going "bang" when I want it to instead of it not hitting a target. As noted, Makarovs are just fine. Ammunition is plentiful and inexpensive, and the accuracy is more than adaquate for plinking or carry.

I also recommend PDHSC for classes. I took the IDPA and CCW classes there, and was very satisfied with the intruction.

When I carry, I typically carry the GP-100 (my preference) or the 1911 (both can be seen in my gallery). The GP-100 was on the order of $350, and the 1911 I purchased used for $385.


[Edited on September 1, 2006 at 9:14 AM. Reason : .]

9/1/2006 9:11:00 AM

you conceal at 1911 or a gp-100?

you must walk around with a trench coat on



i bought a ruger p 345 last fall and it has worked its way to the front of my favorites, and costs less than most of them.


check it out

9/1/2006 9:46:14 AM

you can't conceal a 1911?

you must walk around with a $15 holster

9/1/2006 9:54:31 AM

thats just stupid


its not a pratical concealed weapon due to its size.

you can conceal a sawed off shotgun if you want, but its not comfortable.

9/1/2006 11:48:51 AM

maybe if you're a 98lb girl or 53 years old

9/1/2006 12:04:00 PM

youre 19

you cant even own a handgun legally, nor can you carry one concealed


come back in a couple years

9/1/2006 12:41:08 PM

Quote :

"I was thinking about some type of wheel gun - maybe a .380."

.380 is typically an auto cartridge. do you mean .38 special?

Quote :

"well i wont be entering any competitions, but i never blame my tools"

not blaming your tools is all well and good, but you can't "will" a less accurate weapon to shoot accurately.

Quote :

"A military surplus Makarov won't be any less accurate than any modern gun, really."

it's going to have sucky sights. if you don't spend more money (which would kinda defeat the purpose) to put good sights on it, it's going to be a little less accurate. i doubt that it would be as accurate as something like a SIG or a nice 1911, anyway...but it would prob do well for the price.

Quote :

"they were (like most issue pistols) used lightly"

haha, i've seen some issue M9s (Beretta 92FS) that weren't used lightly at ALL.

Quote :

"The needs for a carry piece—maximum concealability, meaning high power:weight—are pretty much the reverse of what you want for a non-concealed piece. I would not want to blast off more than a couple of cylinders of .357 from a small 2" revolver...and I would not want to conceal a full-size USP .40. If you enjoy abuse, either will work (and you certainly wouldn't be undergunned with the latter), but it's really best to get different guns for different roles."

Concur.

Quote :

"you can't conceal a 1911? you must walk around with a $15 holster"

a full-sized 1911 can be concealed, and most are fairly thin in profile, but it's not really the best tool for that job.

9/1/2006 2:34:45 PM

Quote :

"youre 19 you cant even own a handgun legally, nor can you carry one concealed "

the law says u have to be 21 to purchase a handgun, and that it is illegal for a minor to possess a hand gun. in the same section it defines a minor as anyone under 18 years of age, so technically he could own/possess a handgun as long as it was “given” to him. If you can talk ur dad or brother or uncle to give u one for your b-day or Christmas ur in luck. Also in NC u have to have a valid permit to purchase from and individual so even if u find someone to sell to you the act of it being sold to u is the illegal part. The owning of it is perfectly fine tho.

Oh and I love Sig’s one of the best guns on the market imo. Go ahead and buy what u want, other wise u’ll find what u want but u’ll have already spent ur money on something to get u by.

u do have to be 21 to get a chp

[Edited on September 1, 2006 at 3:17 PM. Reason : chp]

9/1/2006 3:14:52 PM

Quote :

"you conceal at 1911 or a gp-100? you must walk around with a trench coat on"

Both conceal just fine with an IWB holster and button-down shirt.

With a T-shirt, I'll carry the Makarov (also IWB) or the NAA mini (pocket).

[Edited on September 1, 2006 at 3:25 PM. Reason : .]

9/1/2006 3:22:30 PM

Quote :

"The High Point firearms have a real low price and a lifetime warr. If they mess up you send em back and 99% of the time the send you a brand new one. They are not the most accurate gun but they make just as much noise as any other one and thats all I wanted. Plus Im not sure I want my wife that accurate for my sake."

wow, dude. you're a moron. out of all the guns that are unreliable, hi-point is at the top of the list. I've seen more broken hi-points/ jennings than I care to think about. A self-defense firearm is supposed to shoot reliably EVERY SINGLE TIME you pull the trigger. not just once in a while. As for all you wanted was for the gun to make a noise, then you got a gun for the wrong reason. guns are made to kill things. and if you're pointing it at someone then you should kill them, because theres no other reason to do so. and lastly, someone who is more accurate is safer, because then they'll hit what they intend to and not some bystander.

9/1/2006 10:28:33 PM

Jennings, Bryco, etc. are not Hi-Point.

Their CARBINES are excellent weapons.

Their pistols, from all reports from people who actually own them, are in fact quite reliable. If they're all you can afford, at least they'll put bullets more or less where you point the gun, and they'll function decently.

That said, I'd recommend saving up for something better than a Hi-Point pistol.

9/2/2006 8:33:04 AM

colter is the real moron here. everybody knows hi-point is a great gun.

[Edited on September 2, 2006 at 5:05 PM. Reason : mm]

9/2/2006 5:05:29 PM

^
Well..."great" is an overstatement. Unless you're talking about their carbines, which fucking rock.

9/2/2006 5:21:57 PM

blah blah I know more about guns than you do

9/2/2006 6:49:58 PM

y'ok

damn, is that you?

9/2/2006 6:58:54 PM