We have the worst fans in the ACC. Maybe even the country.

We don't take to it well at all.

2/25/2006 7:36:10 PM

When you lose becuase you make the same mistakes 4,493,499.394 times over the past 10 years....it does get a little frustrating


So does that mean it's our fault? Or is it still Gavin Grant's? Evtimov's?

2/25/2006 7:37:43 PM

because getting mad will change everything!!!!111

[Edited on February 25, 2006 at 7:39 PM. Reason : rollie eyes]

2/25/2006 7:39:14 PM

Oh I'm not mad. I just point and laugh at our basketball team. Have for years

2/25/2006 7:41:11 PM

I can't say that I've really kept up with NC State basketall over the last 10 years.

I do know that for the first 5, with a coach trying to implement a new system, and with the crap talent we had, mistakes should have been expected.

Considering the last five...well, Evtimov has been the consistent factor, so who knows

I'm also talking about football when I bring up the argument. We're a pretty bad bunch when it comes to losing.

I know that nobody wants a losing team, but when losses take over any type of positives throughout the year, that's just not right.

2/25/2006 7:44:47 PM

Quote :

"I can't say that I've really kept up with NC State basketall over the last 10 years"

And there you have it



If you've watched this year... you've basically seen what's happened over the past 5 years. I mean exactly the same

2/25/2006 7:46:09 PM

While I haven't done it for the last 10, I have for the last 5.

2/25/2006 7:47:40 PM

Anyone who is a good competitor does not take loosing very well...excellence demands that you hate to loose - examples- Michael Jordan HATES to loose (he cheats his own grandmother at cards) Bob Knight HATES to loose (chairs, choking, etc....) WHY SHOULD WE TAKE IT WELL?

"I can't say that I've really kept up with NC State basketall over the last 10 years."

when you've put up with this crap for 19 years maybe you'll feel differently, or if you get a clue anytime soon.
...we should take loosing better... you're funny

2/25/2006 10:14:40 PM

OMFG NEW

AND ALSO

Quote :

"Evtimov has been the consistent factor"

DISCREDITS ANY BASKETBALL KNOWLEDGE WE MAY HAVE PERCEIVED YOU HAD

2/25/2006 10:15:49 PM

"never give up" Jimmy V


^no, youve missed the point. EV IS CONSISTENT. you may think consistently bad, but he IS consistent.

[Edited on February 25, 2006 at 10:16 PM. Reason : -]

2/25/2006 10:16:20 PM

^^^LOSE....loose is a completely different word

[Edited on February 25, 2006 at 10:16 PM. Reason : .]

2/25/2006 10:16:25 PM

Quote :

"Anyone who is a good competitor does not take loosing very well...excellence demands that you hate to loose - examples- Michael Jordan HATES to loose (he cheats his own grandmother at cards) Bob Knight HATES to loose (chairs, choking, etc....) WHY SHOULD WE TAKE IT WELL?"

Just a quick question. What in the hell did you do in the game to consider yourself a "good competitor?" Get the fuck over it, and stop living vicariously through somebody else. YOU haven't done a damn thing to affect anything in the game, so stop with the "competitor" bullshit.

God damn ya'lls some whiny bitches.

2/25/2006 11:01:56 PM

I did not read anything because it came from superdude

2/25/2006 11:21:09 PM

^ And you don't know squat about sports, so GTFO of my thread

Quote :

"DISCREDITS ANY BASKETBALL KNOWLEDGE WE MAY HAVE PERCEIVED YOU HAD"

Idiot, when I meant "consistent", I meant that for the five years that I've kept up with NC State basketball, Evtimov has been there i.e. when Packbacker asked

Quote :

" So does that mean it's our fault? Or is it still Gavin Grant's? Evtimov's? "

I implied it could be Evtimov's fault since he's been there over the whole time span.

Way to not pay attention

2/26/2006 12:10:06 AM

At some point you have got to stop blaming the players...


Chris Webber? Yeah, that was his fault..


When terrible last-play shots go up for years straight, you can't rebound for consecutive years, you lose to teams you should lose to for consecutive years, etc.... you've got to be realistic.

I'm not bashing Herb, just stating the obvious. There are some major problems with his system, and until they're fixed.. we're going nowhere.

Ultimately, Herb recruits the players, motivates the players, coaches the players, and is responsible for everything revolving around this program.

He's had ample time to fix the problems, get his personell in here, and yet we still cant rebound, hold a lead, make an inbounds play, break a full-court press, or do anything besides shoot 3 pointers.

[Edited on February 26, 2006 at 12:15 AM. Reason : ]

2/26/2006 12:14:15 AM

I dont think Gavin is really as bad as he plays. I really dont. He had some really nice drives today and looked very agressive. I'll let it slide that he missed the rim with one layup cause he prolly wasnt expecting to get to the rim. He just needs to learn to release at the top of his jump shot, not on the way down.


Oh but the point is...he's not a point guard. He's a slasher against bigger players, and he can post up against smaller guards. He should never touch the ball outside the 3 point line though. Ever.

2/26/2006 12:14:32 AM

Gavin Grant reminds me of Grundy.

Wildly out of control but has lots of potential. He'll settle down and be a great player, I think

2/26/2006 12:16:43 AM

^^ impossible. there are times in our set where 5 guys are outside of the 3 point line

2/26/2006 12:19:22 AM

Yeah, which is why Gavin gives the impression that he sucks

2/26/2006 12:24:56 AM

Quote :

" When terrible last-play shots go up for years straight, you can't rebound for consecutive years, you lose to teams you should lose to for consecutive years, etc.... you've got to be realistic. I'm not bashing Herb, just stating the obvious. There are some major problems with his system, and until they're fixed.. we're going nowhere."

You're right, the system isn't perfect. If I recall, he's been modifying it with each passing year to try to make it better. What used to be the "Princeton Offense" is now the NC State offense. He's utilized the block more than he ever used to a couple years ago.

Lack of rebounding = our players. We practically play with four guards on offense. None are big enough to even compete on the boards with the taller players. He's recruited the big men, but they're still raw. And once Evtimov gets out of the way, we'll have a bigger man who can actually jump.

Beating the press and all that jazz = lack of point guard. We're finally getting one in Chris Wright. Herb has tried and tried to get one before him, but we always lost out. He knows he needs a good point to beat the press and he's been unlucky to net one.

You say we're going nowhere. I'm saying that we've been getting better, but because we don't improve by leaps and bounds, people see it as going nowhere. Since North Carolina had a bad season, then got a new coach and won the championship the next year, people have this perception that we can do it too. I'm kinda sick of always having State fans use Carolina as our measuring stick. We'll never create our own niche when everything we do is done to prove that we belong with them.

2/26/2006 12:28:57 AM

stop making logical posts....


people are gonna start thinking I'm your alias

2/26/2006 12:30:00 AM

we have more talent this year than last and have not improved

2/26/2006 12:32:24 AM

we don't have the go-to star type player


THAT is what we're missing

Cam didn't step up and fill Julius' shoes

2/26/2006 12:33:39 AM

More talent...

Okay

We lose Hodge

The only "new talent" that I've seen on the court that gets significant time is McCauley. The rest of the team is virtually untouched. Yeah, that's a huge increase in talent. (Yeah, Ced got MUCH better, and Bethel was healthy, but just think if they were that good AND we had Hodge)

When they get a couple years under their belt, I'll look forward to Fells and the rest. Right now, they can't do squat. Think of them as if they were O-Linemen. Even the best ones may end up riding the bench for a couple years because no matter how "talented" they might be, it doesn't translate right away.

2/26/2006 12:38:11 AM

simmon, cam, bethel?????


Here is a good post from state fans.

Quote :

" Why can't Herb try another offensive set mid-game when things are not working? Miami abandoned their offense vs us mid-game and went small and opened the floor. Every high school and AAU team in the country uses some version of a double post motion offense, where players actually screen for players away from the ball. It would seem to take little preparation time--all the players know the basic rules of a motion game. I watched Ced play in a motion offense during the Chavis league this summer. Herb originally used the Flex offense his first year here (see Maryland, Boston College). Using a couple of actions out of that would not be complicated. He also used a basic 3 man weave offense at times that first year. Even your basic open set (four corners) type of offense would not take elaborate preparation time. If Brackman went and screened away for Simmons once, the other team might pass out. All we needed was something different for ONE POSSESSION!!"

It just makes sense a single offense isn't good for all situations. Herb doesnt have the creativity, flexibility, and quick thinking to change things up, though. I'm actually surprised that he switched to zone, this game. I wonder if it will take another 10 years for him to figure out that there is no panacea offense and that our version of the princeton offense is particularly fragile.

Announcers have even called is out for being robotic and deliberate, and they are right. We completely break down when we face a little adversity.

[Edited on February 26, 2006 at 12:41 AM. Reason : ^way to contradict yourself in your own post. we have the one of the most experienced acc teams]

2/26/2006 12:40:07 AM

OMG! I'm off the bandwagon because Majarus and Packer think we're robotic

2/26/2006 12:42:05 AM

I'll admit that I think we should have 2-3 plays that stem off of some other offense just to mix things up every once in a while.

2/26/2006 12:43:12 AM

great thread, take a shot at our fans

2/26/2006 1:01:20 AM

well, we DO have some of the most fairweather fans ever

2/26/2006 1:06:03 AM

You have it backwards. Any ncsu fans who is still around is anything but fair-weather. The fans who still have positive outlooks are the fair-weather ones, since they obviously havent been around for a while.


ESPECIALLY all these old guys on statefans who drop several grand for season tickets to watch a crappy team. Show some respect. Their actions speak louder than your words.

[Edited on February 26, 2006 at 1:23 AM. Reason : sfds]

2/26/2006 1:07:33 AM

^couldnt have said it better


Thats why we can rag on UNC fans for making up "walmart nation" when we get waxed every time we play them. It takes balls to be a State fan these days

2/26/2006 1:09:06 AM

Quote :

"The fans who still have positive outlooks are the fair-weather ones, since they obviously havent been around for a while. "

i disagree

i have a positive outlook

i don't like losing

but it doesn't keep me from sleeping

shit happens that i have no control over...better to just accept and let it be

2/26/2006 1:36:37 AM

im a humongous state fan, and like any other state fan, I would like nothing more than to see us get a championship in football or basketball. But like the last guy said, its not gonna change my life in some crazy way if i never do see us win one. I'm sure that sometime over my lifespan i will(god willing) see us put up some sort of banner. I mean....somethings gotta happen in a 50 year span right(Red Sox/Cub fans be quiet).

2/26/2006 3:31:28 AM

when we lose I drink heavier

2/26/2006 12:37:04 PM

Quote :

"people are gonna start thinking I'm your alias "

i never associated john kruk with logical posts, you have nothing to worry about

2/26/2006 1:05:50 PM

The people who use sports to sleep at night generally cheer for UNC or Duke or something. That much is a given. These are winning teams, and that's the only connection the majority of their fans have towards these universities; the sole connection.

Like I said to this douche-hose at the Carolina game - anybody can buy a shirt at Wal-Mart. And what was the comeback? Nothing. He already established he didn't go to UNC. Those people act like they don't care about such comments, and no matter how hackneyed the comments about Wal-Mart Carolina fans are, they know it's the absolute truth.

It's a lot harder to go to college, metriculate and stay loyal to your Alma Mater, no matter how bad they are. Nobody wants to lose, and as far as our fans being terrible, I think we were spoiled with two seasons of awesome luck in basketball that makes our fans act "terrible." Hell, we still have something UNC and Duke don't have; an undefeated Championship season. We were spoiled with the taste of how sweet winning is and winning everything is the epitome of our expectations. Why don't people understand this? All those other shit schools - you take Clemson in basketball for example; they don't know what it's like. They've sucked since the dawn of the peach basket. What are their expectations? Certainly, it's not winning a championship every year, because they are rational about things that we, NC State, cannot be and never will be about at this point.

I'm not saying the behavior of our fans at times isn't despicable, but you have to let that shit slide. There's one thing that we have over all those other douchebags, and that's loyalty, and you can't take that away. You can actually take it for granted it seems. As soon as you bring anything up over at UNC about loyalty, what do they say, even without asking, as to prove it moreso to themselves than anyone else? "I was there when we had those bad seasons with Dougherty." They throw that shit in your face as to justify their self-doubts when going through those horrible seasons.

What do you hear from Duke fans on this respect? "I'm a real fan because I like Duke football." Well, you generally don't have to throw that shit in their face before that comment comes out, either. They always have excuses when they suck, but we have attacks; we have strong criticism. We don't ignore one sport we're not good at. No sir, we're as loyal as they come.

[Edited on February 26, 2006 at 1:18 PM. Reason : k]

[Edited on February 26, 2006 at 1:18 PM. Reason : d]

2/26/2006 1:18:15 PM

Yeah...someone said something like that last night. ITs easy to be a duke or unc fan, but being a state fan takes some balls really.

You watch...with as bad as our football team was these last two years, CF is gonna come damn close to selling out again. Kenan MIGHT sell out for the Miami game, and State will help sell it our for that game. We have some of the best fans in the world in that respect. The only thing thats gonna keep people out of the stands is a lack of effort (see UNC game / BC game on offense), and stupidity (see averaging 10 penalties a game last season in football). As long as the team comes out and plays hard and smart, it doesnt matter who wins, our fans will always come back.

[Edited on February 26, 2006 at 1:31 PM. Reason : ]

2/26/2006 1:30:48 PM

Quote :

"Lack of rebounding = our players(who are recruited by Herb). We practically play with four guards on offense(a decicison made by herb). None are big enough to even compete on the boards with the taller players. He's recruited the big men, but they're still raw(maybe if they had a coach to get them prepared, they could contribute to the teams the way other young players in other programs seem to). And once Evtimov gets out of the way, we'll have a bigger man who can actually jumpEvtimov is the basketball anti-Christ. Beating the press and all that jazz = lack of point guard(Who's in charge of recruiting again?). We're finally getting one in Chris Wright(But what if he's "raw"?). Herb has tried and tried to get one before him, but we always lost out(But Herb is the super awesome best recruiter ever!!!! How can he lose out on recruits? Is it becasue they see him running a shitty offense? Or is it because they see teams constantly underperforming here?). He knows he needs a good point to beat the press and he's been unlucky to net one(But Atsur...Sucks)."

2/26/2006 2:31:54 PM

Ok...so I can't spell
I guess I meant the fans dont take LOSING well because they players and coaches take it too well.
when I pay good $ for my tickets, and have paid $ for a decent/non-stagnant basketball program through the wolfpack club for 19 years I expect results.
I don't wish to live vicariously through players (although itd be neat to be able to know what its like to jump that high...) I'd just like the coach whose salary we pay and the players whose scholarships we pay to want to represent for NC State (all of us) better than they have been. I think being content with LOSING or with mediocrity is a disgusting, lazy attitude for any person or organization to have.

2/26/2006 4:11:41 PM

Remember, when talking TWW....it is much more important to spell correctly than the point of what you were saying.

2/26/2006 4:39:17 PM

lets see. i live sports. i eat sports. i really get bummed when the panthers season, the wolfpack season's are over...now what will i do??? seriously i can't wait till the fall!!! but on the same not i love the summer at the beach soooooo

2/26/2006 6:10:45 PM

Quote :

" Lack of rebounding = our players. We practically play with four guards on offense. None are big enough to even compete on the boards with the taller players. He's recruited the big men, but they're still raw. And once Evtimov gets out of the way, we'll have a bigger man who can actually jump."

When you leave your center out at the 3 point line.... it's not the players fault they cant get rebounds. Cedric is a beast... there's no reason for him to ever come out to the top of the arc.

Quote :

"Beating the press and all that jazz = lack of point guard. We're finally getting one in Chris Wright. Herb has tried and tried to get one before him, but we always lost out. He knows he needs a good point to beat the press and he's been unlucky to net one. "

I follow recruiting and know all about Wright. I also know about Paul, Gilchrist, Shakur, etc. You're right.. he's tried... but they don't want to play in our system (Aside from Gilchrist). It'll be interested to see if a true point guard can flourish.

I think it will help things, but we still shoot too many 3's and cant rebound becuase everyone is out at the 3 point line.

Quote :

"You say we're going nowhere. I'm saying that we've been getting better, but because we don't improve by leaps and bounds, people see it as going nowhere. Since North Carolina had a bad season, then got a new coach and won the championship the next year, people have this perception that we can do it too. I'm kinda sick of always having State fans use Carolina as our measuring stick. We'll never create our own niche when everything we do is done to prove that we belong with them. "

We are improving in talent.... that said, our flaws have been consistent.

We are a one-dimensional team who sucks ass if the 3 pointers aren't falling because we refuse to utilize one of the most athletic big men in the conference.

We get outrebounded becuase our entire team is at the 3 point line, we don't block out on defense, and everyone just stands around and watches the ball being shot.

We can't hold leads becuase our coach plays the patented "Stand around, dribble, and throw up a prayer when the shot clock is under 5 seconds" offense.

Great coaches dismantle us becuase they take away our 3 pointers.... we fold like a deck of cards. We're improving and we have the talent to overcome this in certain games.... but if we have an "off night" from 3 point land, we don't have a coach who is capable of telling people to pound the ball inside.... nor do we have anyone aside from Cedric who has the balls to do it.

Anyone can get lucky. When it comes to stringing together consecutive victories and high-percentage shooting that's needed to go deep in the tournament... or being two dimensional when we meet a great perimter defending group....we fold.

That's not the foundation for a successful team.

[Edited on February 26, 2006 at 6:23 PM. Reason : ]

2/26/2006 6:22:27 PM

When bashing Herb please do not leave out the part where two current NBA players were chased off after their Sophomore years of college.

Also add that another player with a brief career in the NBA was chased off after his first season at NC State.


So there you go, three NBA talents chased off by Herb.


It's not that Herb cant get talent, its that he doesnt know how to use it or keep it.


What we're dealing with here is a guy who is just too smart for his own good. Basketball isnt math. it's not a perfect science. Each possession doesnt have to be picturesque. The ball just has to go in the fucking bucket.

Stop dicking around on offense and play the game of basketball the way it is meant to be played. It is painful to see this shit.

2/26/2006 7:11:15 PM