http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10892985/

Quote :

"Once upon a time, American-made cars embodied a vigorous national confidence. They were enormous chunks of muscular metal and chrome with jukebox-like dashboards and dangerously-sharp tailfins. Bold and flashy, they commanded respect on the highway. These days, forget about respect. American cars are singled out for their lack of exciting designs, poor quality and meager fuel efficiency. Many American consumers began to choose Toyotas over Chryslers years ago."

Some interesting quotes:

Quote :

"“They refused to accept change,” said Adams. “While automotive industries in other countries were building smaller, safer, more fuel-efficient and reliable vehicles, the American automotive industry looked the other way and continued to shove oversized, gas-guzzling vehicles down the throats of consumers.”"

Quote :

"“As much as I would prefer to ‘buy American,’ I am not going to subsidize the huge pensions and inflated salaries that the United Auto Workers union (UAW) has extorted from Detroit by buying a sub-standard automobile,” Paul said. “The UAW and their kind are going to be the undoing of the American car manufacturing industry as we currently know it. What rises from the ashes may be an automobile manufacturer that will stand up to the UAW and build cars that actually give people their money’s worth.”"

1/30/2006 1:49:57 PM

there is no such thing as "domestic" and "import" anymore..

GMs are made in mexico
bmws & toyotas are made in america
vws are made in brazil
etc.

1/30/2006 1:56:51 PM

tell me more 'bout this UAW crew

[Edited on January 30, 2006 at 2:10 PM. Reason : n/m read the article]

1/30/2006 2:01:53 PM

Could you be anymore wrong?

majority of BMWs are made in Germany still.

I think you will find x5 and z4 don't count for much of BMW sales compared to other cars.

Some VWs are made in mexico, some still in germany.

Last I checked GMs are still made in detroit too.

Quote :

"GMs are made in mexico bmws & toyotas are made in america vws are made in brazil etc."

[Edited on January 30, 2006 at 2:07 PM. Reason : .]

1/30/2006 2:05:49 PM

You can't tell anymore.
My dad's "japanese" Honda was made in Marysville, Ohio.
My mom's "american" Ford was made in Canada. (Not sure of city/province).
My Lincoln was made in Wixom, Michigan.

That's 2 out of 3 that weren't made in their "logical" country.

1/30/2006 2:19:36 PM

Ford is mostly in the us and canada

1/30/2006 3:06:41 PM

not to mention that the foreign and domestic makes are all in bed with each other, anyway

ford and jag, ford and mazda
chrysler and mitsu
saab is a division of GM just like chevy is

etc

1/30/2006 3:17:42 PM

Quote :

"They refused to accept change,” said Adams. “While automotive industries in other countries were building smaller, safer, more fuel-efficient and reliable vehicles, the American automotive industry looked the other way and continued to shove oversized, gas-guzzling vehicles down the throats of consumers"

i agree completely with this. american auto makers are playing catch up now.

it is hard to determine country lines as far as manufacturing, etc. goes... but the technology and design still largely lies in the auto maker's country of origin.

1/30/2006 3:20:32 PM

my car was built in smyrna, tennessee.

1/30/2006 4:38:00 PM

I drive a Nissan that was built in the US.

But I can certainly see why the "American brands" are slipping though.

1/30/2006 4:57:30 PM

A bunch of the speaker and computer stuff on all cars is from japan or china. Most cars are pretty much from everywhere.

Hell, I mean the Toyota Matrix and Pontiac Vibe share the same platform... In japan the Vibe is even called a Toyota Voltz.

Not that I don't like American cars, I love American muscle but in the past decade or so I think the American manufacturers have failed to adapt. That being said, it's still sad to see that American cars still come with huge engines to make power closer to the turbocharged high tech japanese cars. And while the Japanese use Valve Timing and computer techonolgy to gain good fuel economy, the American cars must shut down cylinders to make good fuel economy.

It's sad that in America everyone seems to want a huge SUV with leather and armor plated wheels. Before importing a bunch of companies have to widen and fatten their cars to carry our american fat asses everywhere.

1/30/2006 5:04:39 PM

just because a car was assembled in the US, sure as doesn't mean the engine internals were cast and machined here, let alone designed here. the non-automated part of car assembly is pretty low level for most cars, so it really doesn't matter where it's assembled.

1/30/2006 5:50:02 PM

sigh


regardless of what is made where and who is actually owned by who, there are still domestic and import car brands.

yes most domestic lines lost the home field advantage over the past decade or so, because they just didnt offer the customers what they could get with a honda or toyota. is this the fault of the UAW? i dont know, but honestly who really cares?

1/30/2006 6:07:59 PM

^more like the last 25-30 years, not the last 10

Quote :

"it is hard to determine country lines as far as manufacturing, etc. goes... but the technology and design still largely lies in the auto maker's country of origin."

you're right, to a degree. even the technology and design is far, far more inbred than it used to be (with the manufacturer associations I gave earlier as evidence)

Hell, even the Harley-Davidson V-Rod has an engine designed by Porsche.

1/30/2006 7:40:19 PM

Quote :

"My Lincoln was made in Wixom, Michigan."

What's surprising about that?

edit: i'm an idiot

[Edited on January 30, 2006 at 7:41 PM. Reason : q]

1/30/2006 7:40:56 PM

.

[Edited on January 30, 2006 at 8:21 PM. Reason : repost]

1/30/2006 8:12:33 PM

let me just go ahead and point out that none of the "this car is really that car" stuff is going to be amazing or new to anyone else

1/30/2006 8:17:50 PM

The new beetle is actually a Ford F-350 Xtra duty

1/30/2006 8:49:02 PM

Quote :

"bmws & toyotas are made in america vws are made in brazil"

funny cause the only two BMW's that are made in the US are the Z4 and x5 which are shipped to Germany when the German made, 3series, 5 series and 7 series are brought to the US

also, another funny thing about VW's...they are mostly made in Germany, however some transmissions are assembled in japan and other assemblies are done in mexico.....dunno where you got brazil from.

1/30/2006 9:30:30 PM

bmw's are also made in autria, south africa, and great britain
just wanted to point that out because they get forgotten

1/30/2006 9:41:57 PM

My 2004 Honda Accord

US/Canadien Parts: 60%
Japan Parts: 25%

Final Assembly Point: Marysville, Ohio
Engine: USA
Transmission: Japan

1/30/2006 9:50:32 PM

I'm actually starting to like domestics better.
Particularly ford and Chrysler.
Ford is starting to come out with genuine nice cars again, and Chrysler is bringing the Mercedes influence.
Ford just showed it's diesel-electric hybrid at a recent show and I, working in the engine components industry, know there are somethings coming down the pipeline.

1/30/2006 9:59:27 PM

who cares where theyre made? theyre just following dirctions, etc. where it is DESIGNED is what matters

1/30/2006 10:01:04 PM

did anyone else read the actual msnbc article that this tread was created in response to?

1/30/2006 10:14:25 PM

yes

1/30/2006 10:17:23 PM

Quote :

"That being said, it's still sad to see that American cars still come with huge engines to make power closer to the turbocharged high tech japanese cars. And while the Japanese use Valve Timing and computer techonolgy to gain good fuel economy, the American cars must shut down cylinders to make good fuel economy."

I find this part pretty ridiculous. First off, they aren't making big engines to come close to the Jap shit, they are absolutely blowing the doors off the Japenese supercars and still doing it with better fuel economy. And how is DOD or whatever they call it now a bad thing? It makes great sense to deactivate half the cylinders when cruise is engaged and helps quiet down the motor when your cruising. I love the big meaty sound that a big V8 musclecar makes and hate that whiny sound that foreign cars make when they wind up. Not to mention the fact that most of those cars powerband is not nearly as good as the american muscle cars.

As for the article, I agree that most of Detroit has been stagnant over the past years. I think the Fusion, Mustang, etc. are steps in the right direction, and I'm hopeful for the future.

1/31/2006 2:40:57 PM

"who cares where theyre made? theyre just following dirctions, etc. where it is DESIGNED is what matters"

Lots of "Japanese" cars are designed in California

1/31/2006 2:44:24 PM

we make service calls to the Nissan "engineers" in California occasionally...you can tell they've never had their heads under a hood...and you can't tell me that an emissions system that constanly has problems clogging the tube from the cat to the intake manifold (in effect seizing the engine and calling for a brand new one) is a great design

sure it pays like ~14 hours...gg nissan

2/3/2006 12:39:10 PM

hondas are made in ohio

2/3/2006 12:42:06 PM

Its not the design location, its not the assmebly location its where the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ goes. Assembling a nissan in tenn. is not gonna afect our economy much for the better. The romeo and allied ford plants, now thats whats good for america!

2/4/2006 5:50:28 PM

^THANK YOU!

Some of you people are fucking retarded. If GM or Ford went out of business, the US economy would tank in a heartbeat.

2/6/2006 1:12:36 PM

Three cents of every dollar in the US in generated by GM.

2/6/2006 2:10:17 PM

^ so you're saying that GM is 3% of the GDP

riiiiiiiiiight

2/6/2006 10:44:45 PM

Quote :

"Before importing a bunch of companies have to widen and fatten their cars to carry our american fat asses everywhere."

2/7/2006 7:47:01 AM

Call me a stupid girl, but I thought it was inefficient and outdated business models, not where stuff was designed and built that made domestic companies lose out to imports. Foreign based companies have less overhead and are quicker to adapt to the changing needs of customers. America makes excellent larger vehicles, but we are playing catch up in the smaller vehicle market segment because it takes a dozen layers of management and a workers' union to decide if and how to do anything.

2/7/2006 8:15:06 AM

^you're right, stupid girl.

2/7/2006 9:38:58 AM

^^the workers union has no decision in the development of a new vehicle.

2/7/2006 1:19:27 PM

Quote :

"America makes excellent larger vehicles"

oh yeah, like what?

2/7/2006 7:43:11 PM

Trucks

2/7/2006 7:57:52 PM

i haven't found a modern american truck yet that's worth a fuck.

2/7/2006 8:00:30 PM

^ how modern are we talking about?

2/7/2006 9:41:05 PM

same thread different year

2/7/2006 10:05:00 PM

If you want a muscle car buy American. If you want a quality, reliable, comfortable, economical, dependable, convenient, quiet, elegant, functional car, buy Japanese.

2/8/2006 9:54:56 AM

well we just got the contract to make all GMT-900(0?) airbags

those are all the airbags in gm trucks

w00t for federally mandated devices in all new cars giving me a job!

2/8/2006 9:44:57 PM