Are there any one around here that have had one of these in their contract that they signed? B/c I've got one and it might get in the way of fidning another job. It's uber-vague, and says 1 year within 50 mile radius I cannot work for a 'similar' business company working 'similar practice' etc etc. For a non-compete

Well, I just aced an interview, and the company is asking me to fax my noncompete clause - now I'm nervous it will bust me.

Should I be nervous? I mean fuck these companies that think they can do that, I only worked at this place for 8 months, and its my first frekaing job out of college. I have no trade secrets of any sort...and I had to sign to get the damn job, but I just though it was bullshit jargon.

Do you think this would screw it up?

1/26/2006 4:41:32 PM

shouldn't be nervous.

1/26/2006 4:44:54 PM

if you signed a non compete clause then you have to obey it.

1/26/2006 4:52:24 PM

is it both 1 yr and 50 mile radius?

or one year OR 50 mile radius?

1/26/2006 5:04:17 PM

^^No you don't. Noncompete agreements are extremely legally shaky and they are rarely enforced when employees have moved on in good faith.

1/26/2006 5:10:45 PM

Were you a tutor by any chance?

as far as the non-compete clause goes you can do one of two things (we studied these last semester in law school):

1. Simply call your old employer and ask out of it
2. This might seem unbelievably obvious but nothing will happen unless your old company takes you to court... i.e. there is nothing wrong with simply violating the contract in and of itself. Most companies won't take you to court over something like this, it just doesn't make any sense for them to pay lawyer's fees over something so trivial. Hope this helps.

[Edited on January 26, 2006 at 5:16 PM. Reason : asd]

1/26/2006 5:11:31 PM

no, i'm a recruiter. and it says very broadly 50 mile AND 1 year.

i'm really close to an offer so if this screws it up i'm going to be upset

1/26/2006 5:21:59 PM

I wouldn't worry about it too much unless it's doing the exact same thing and you left on bad terms. Otherwise, just ask them to rename your job title.

1/26/2006 5:23:47 PM

once you leave a company you are not under their contract?

1/26/2006 5:28:16 PM

so you are saying what, to quit then reapply?

I mean i'm at the final stages of the interview - and its such a nicer job, and it's actually doing slight different line of work ...more sourcing than sales/customer contact. And I wouldn't have been alarmed had the manager not specifically say 'it could be a problem'

1/26/2006 5:37:31 PM

whoops

[Edited on January 26, 2006 at 5:43 PM. Reason : ,]

1/26/2006 5:43:01 PM

WTG DONNA MASON

1/26/2006 5:48:00 PM

Quote :

"Noncompete agreements are extremely legally shaky and they are rarely enforced when employees have moved on in good faith. "

1/26/2006 5:59:33 PM

Quote :

"^^No you don't. Noncompete agreements are extremely legally shaky and they are rarely enforced when employees have moved on in good faith."

Noen is right from a legal perspective. I've had a recruiter tell me that a non-compete clause would never stand up in court as she hired me away from a company that was making all it's newer employees sign one (I wasn't under one though.)

From experience though, I can say that you will have a damn hard time finding a company that will touch that with a 10 foot pole and there is a chance it will screw you out of a job.

I'd try not to sign it if at all possible.

1/26/2006 6:02:21 PM

Oh boy- You guys have it wrong. Covenants not to compete are very much enforced and very legal in North Carolina. I could post three recent NC cases enforcing these clauses, but it would bore you. There is not obligation for good faith on behalf of the employer at will. You can be fired for anything short of race, sex, religion, sexual orientation, and nationality. They can fire you for not signing a clause.

Basically, the agreement sounds reasonable for your line of work. Your employer gave you access to their training, pricing, and other fun stuff that seems trival to you. If your applying for the same kind of job/industry, you cannot take it. The new company is smart to ask for a copy of your clause, they open themselves up to tortious interference with contract by hiring you.

These contracts are easy to enforce and well worth it to the company to ensure you comply. Don't risk it.

1/26/2006 8:22:28 PM

You are subject to the contract for the condition of the restriction (1 year). You cannot quit and find a new job to avoid the problem. Actually, the 1 year runs from the day you leave this job.

What kind of job/company are you at now and what are you applying for?

1/26/2006 8:24:25 PM

Quote :

"You can be fired for anything short of race, sex, religion, sexual orientation, and nationality."

I thought you could be fired for sexual orientation in NC. I might be wrong, though.

1/26/2006 8:26:28 PM

Could be the case. Don't really care enough to research it.

1/26/2006 8:29:02 PM

just doctor it up and send it

1/26/2006 9:14:00 PM

If a new place is going to hire you, they typically would do what is needed or pay to get you out of your contract... At least that's why they traditionally would ask........

1/26/2006 9:23:09 PM

I have been screwed over several times because of non compete clauses... they are very much enforced.... especially in the radio business.... so if it says 50 miles or 1 year, It means 50 miles or 1 year.

1/26/2006 10:00:01 PM

i've seen first-hand some pretty impressive maneuvering to get around non-compete clauses

unless you're stealing somebody's clients outright the company that made you sign won't care

1/26/2006 10:02:13 PM

And they wouldnt care. I'm not worried about the company i'm leaving at all. I'm worried about not getting this potential job, thats the rub. I could give a metric fuck-all about my current company - b/c they are awful, and are a sinking ship fast.

I wouldn't be working the same business as my current job - I would be in totally different domain. Plus I saw this:

Non-compete laws are rarely taken to court - and if so, it is usually for an employee or invetor embedded in the company for quite a while. In North Carolina, they are frowned upon. However, under North Carolina law, these agreements may be enforceable if certain conditions are met. The first is that the agreement must be entered into to protect a legitimate business interest of the employer. The employer's desire to limit competition is not a legitimate purpose -- the employer has no right to restrict reemployment based solely on a desire to limit competition. However, if the employer has another business reason (such as an investment of special training or the disclosure to the employee of proprietary information), the noncompete agreement may be enforceable if the other conditions of enforceability are met.

1/26/2006 10:31:11 PM

Took this from online too:

"Unfortunately in many states, non-competes are still legal. Still, these states typically don't want to deprive employees of earning a living in their chosen fields, but they also want to protect companies. It's a balancing act and scope is a big consideration. So, a non-compete agreement might be enforceable in your state, but only if it's reasonable in scope and necessary to protect the company's interests. For example, it might be enforceable if it restricts you from working for a competitor for six months within a 25-mile radius, but not beyond that scope or if you can prove it will seriously impact your right to make a living.

Regardless, some employers know, but don't care, that their non-compete agreements are not enforceable, in whole or part. They might try to get you to sign on the dotted line anyway. It's an intimidation tactic to protect that for which they have no right to protect. They count on employees not knowing or checking its legality. If you don't sign it, they might terminate or refuse to hire you, or deprive you of some benefit or perk. But the courts frown on employers behaving in this way, and you could have legal recourse if this happens to you.

1/26/2006 10:35:56 PM

WHY DONT YOU DISCUSS THIS WITH THEM INSTEAD OF TWW?

1/26/2006 10:46:20 PM

Don't take legal advice from people on TWW. If you are concerned, speak with a lawyer.

1/26/2006 10:52:18 PM

if it were your own company and you were married you could just get your wife to be the owner and you just work for them

1/26/2006 11:00:04 PM

North Carolina is a "right to work state" so they are worthless. My dad owns a business and makes his employees sign them but he admits that they are only there as a deterrant and aren't worth the paper they are written on.

1/27/2006 9:02:04 AM

Are you nervous about faxing the non-compete clause or taking the job?? You shouldn't be nervous about faxing the non-compete clause, because that can't get you in trouble. As far as your situation, I wouldn't want to give any solid advice without reading the clause word for word. In general they are very legal, but lots of non-compete clauses really restrict the employee and won't be enforced in court. Yours doesn't sound too restrictive. Also, depending on how important you are to your company and how big of a dick your boss is, you might just want to sit down and have a chat with him to see if he will let you out of it.

I would just wait to hear back from the company you are interviewing with, and no matter what they say, talk to a lawyer.

1/27/2006 9:13:41 AM

Seems like it doesn't really matter how enforceable your non-compete is. What's important is how enforceable this potential company perceives it to be. If they think it will be a problem...then legal mumbojumbo is pointless. I'm sure some companies don't ask for non-competes and don't care. Others do.

Bottom line is I really think it will be up to this new company to decide if they want to take that chance. We can discuss the legality all day long, but at the end of the day, if they feel uncomfortable with you having a non-compete in place...they simply won't hire you.

1/27/2006 9:23:11 AM

^

Wrong. If a non-compete clause is legally unenforceable, then the hiring company won't give a shit. This is ALL ABOUT LEGALITIES. If the non-compete clause is legally enforceable, then you're screwed...if it's not, or parts of it are unfair by legal standards, then you have a way out. Businesses know all about non-compete clauses and they might even have their own lawyer that will be looking at it when you fax it over. They'll be able to tell if its bull-shit and they can hire you, or if they're better off going after someone else.

And if your non-compete clause does end up restricting you, you do have the option (although it's probably not a good chance) of trying to talk your current boss into letting you out of it.

1/27/2006 9:36:19 AM

Quote :

"I could post three recent NC cases enforcing these clauses, but it would bore you."

Please bore me.

Quote :

"Regardless, some employers know, but don't care, that their non-compete agreements are not enforceable, in whole or part. They might try to get you to sign on the dotted line anyway. It's an intimidation tactic to protect that for which they have no right to protect. They count on employees not knowing or checking its legality. If you don't sign it, they might terminate or refuse to hire you, or deprive you of some benefit or perk. But the courts frown on employers behaving in this way, and you could have legal recourse if this happens to you."

Quote :

"North Carolina is a "right to work state" so they are worthless. My dad owns a business and makes his employees sign them but he admits that they are only there as a deterrant and aren't worth the paper they are written on."

That's pretty much what a former contract agency here in the triangle told me and I can pretty much guarantee they ran it through their team of lawyers before coming to that conclusion.

1/27/2006 9:54:26 AM

Quote :

"Businesses know all about non-compete clauses and they might even have their own lawyer that will be looking at it when you fax it over."

Sure...and if they're uncomfortable with it...they won't hire you. My point is that this isn't about whether or not YOU think its legally binding. It's all about what the company perceives. We can argue legality all day long...but our opinion doesn't matter.

Try reading my post a little more thoroughly next time.

1/27/2006 9:55:16 AM

JennMc is right...As both she and I are currently in law school, this is something we all had to go over in first year contracts courses. I know for a fact that if motivated to do so, the company may pursue the matter in court. Whether or not they choose to do so is entirely up to them. But like someone said earlier, it would probably not a good idea to chance it. I guess it boils down to how much you really want this job. Just as an aside, 1 year 50 miles is not too bad compared to some others I have run into (like anywhere the previous company does business).

1/27/2006 12:27:08 PM

ps

hope you don't want to use the original company as a reference...

1/27/2006 12:39:46 PM

Quote :

"I only worked at this place for 8 months, and its my first frekaing job out of college."

Also something to think about is that it doesn't look good on a resume to see a guy fresh out of college that leaves after 8 months. Generally companies like to see stability. It generally turns companies off to see folks that have jumped around all over the place career wise...unless you're a contractor w/ various projects.

1/27/2006 2:04:09 PM

^ Yes, I know that. I have my degree in HR so I'm not blind to that fact. But my current company is going down the tubes and that is out of my control. I have been in the top 5 recruiters of 30+ for our region for the past 5 months - so it isn't my fault. In fact they really value me - but they pay me peanuts, and don't give me the job orders to make any money. No job orders means no business.

Our business is crapping out and thats b/c of upper management..I shouldnt have to suffer on appearances when in reality I am quite skilled, want to commit for longer, and plan to - but just ran afoul on the wrong company by accident.

Also, this is the recuriting industry- people jump like crazy. I'd like to limit mine. But my prospective employer grinding the fax is a great name - well established....will not make the same mistake twice.

1/27/2006 4:07:41 PM

Noncompetes are generally enforceable in NC and any competent lawyer will tell you so. However, because the noncompete is anti-competitive, it must meet strict drafting requirements to be enforceable. Generally, the noncompete must be written; made a part of a contract for employment; be based on valuable consideration; be reasonable as to time and territory; be designed to protect a legitimate business interest of the employer; and not otherwise be against public policy.

Go talk to a lawyer.

BTW, I believe there is a bill before the General Assembly to make noncompetes unenforceable.

[Edited on January 27, 2006 at 6:33 PM. Reason : ]

1/27/2006 6:32:10 PM

As said above they are rarely enforced when you leave in good faith. Also, courts are hesitant to uphold them.

1/27/2006 6:47:59 PM

shit, just dont tell them where you are going to be working
you do not have to disclose where you found a new job at, right??

b/c i never have

1/27/2006 8:01:20 PM

in my line of work, there's a saying...

U
Signed the
Motherfuckin'
Contract


what i'm getting at is why exactly you took a job with this stipulation if it could potentially be an issue, and what exactly led you to believe that a legal contract that you put your name on was a bunch of "bullshit jargon"?

be careful where you put your signature, dude.

1/27/2006 8:09:33 PM

Quote :

"Most companies won't take you to court over something like this, it just doesn't make any sense for them to pay lawyer's fees over something so trivial. Hope this helps."

Yeah, but remember there is tortious interference with contractual relations. The company might not take Kainen to court, but they could take Kainen's new employer to court for tort damages. Especially if they are a "sinking ship fast" as Kainen said - they might see easy money in a tort claim. And the fear of that might be enough to cause the new employer to say "Forget about it, we'll find someone else."

I wouldn't say they are "easy" to enforce - they can be enforced, but the presumption is against them. Kainen is right, they are frowned upon - the reason being, they are a restraint of trade. The court will look to make sure the agreement is not too broad in terms of time and distance, and reasonability. It seems here that your main argument would be that it is vague - what is "similar"? Is your new employer "similar" enough to the old one? The vagueness would probably render this one unenforceable.

However, I'm not licensed in NC so don't take my word for it. I'm just telling you what I told my Business Law students.

1/28/2006 2:53:22 AM

Yeah, I'd say your out of luck. But like anything, it can be negotiated depending on where you are going and the level of attorney you retain, if it comes to it, which is highly unlikely unles you decided to resign a day after discovering how to make a cellphone stick on a fingertip.

Mine says I can't leave before the end of my contract and work within the same Industry for at least 24 months, which essentially means I'll be poor while I finish school, and work in a completely differnet industry.

Which luckily enough for me I am light years away from what I left school to sign a contract for. I actually went back to what I was really good at, and felt most comfortable doing.

1/28/2006 7:10:50 PM