I've told this story once or twice on t-dub... A dude came to my window, was not apparently armed, and told me "gimme what ya got." I pulled a Colt and said "Do you want one or all seven?" I told him to walk away and he did.

My question is what if I had ordered him at gunpoint to sit down and wait for the cops to get there? Would I be guilty of "assault by pointing a firearm?" Also, I wouldn't really have any proof that he was trying to rob me in the first place. But, I'm pretty sure a search of his person would have yielded some incriminating eveidence.

To my knowledge NC does not have a "citizen's arrest" law.

What would have happened?

1/25/2006 2:31:18 PM

blast his ass and leave...do society a favor

1/25/2006 2:33:28 PM

Quote :

"Do you want one or all seven?"

no way

1/25/2006 2:38:31 PM

you are allowed to detain someone, caught in the commission of a crime, using reasonable force

citizen's arrest is not allowed

if you wanted to you could have tied his ass up

i can get you the statute # later if you want

[Edited on January 25, 2006 at 2:43 PM. Reason : jfdskajfl]

1/25/2006 2:42:25 PM

should have added "Well, do ya punk?"

1/25/2006 2:44:27 PM

^^^ yes

^^ So theoretically I could have hancuffed him (I have some ) but more likely just held him at gunpoint and the RPD would have taken him?

[Edited on January 25, 2006 at 2:45 PM. Reason : another post]

1/25/2006 2:45:20 PM

YOU CAN NOT Handcuff people.
You will have your ass put in jail with them.

You can place them under citizens arrest. You can detain them, by telling them they are not allowed to leave. You can not physicaly restrain them.

This is from asking a police officer. My former neighbors tried to throw bottles and break out my windows. When the police finally got there, I asked them about it. I too have a weapon and handcuffs, but am not legally able to handcuff them for detainment.

1/25/2006 2:48:45 PM

Quote :

"You can detain them, by telling them they are not allowed to leave. You can not physicaly restrain them."

Exactly....


You will get a lot of different answers on this but the fact is, it really depends on the arresting officer and the DA what or if you will be charged with. It also depends on if the Police knew about the "Do you want one or all seven?" statement. That’s really a smart ass statement that should be left in Hollywood and ultimately would be used against you if you were charged. It is a crime itself to threaten lethal force when the subject has not legally threatened you yet, like you said it’s your word against his.

To answer your question, What would have happened?
Unless there was a witness…..neither of you would have been charged, but both of you possibly detained if the guy didn’t admit to it and said you pulled a gun on him.

You should consider taking a ccw class

1/25/2006 2:53:16 PM

What does "telling them they are not allowed to leave" really mean... it's not like I could legally shoot him or even kick his ass to prevent it.

I'm not trying to make the case for hurting somebody, but I've been thinking about the fact that I did call the police and the never showed en force... they never even came to ask me any questions, I thought that was POP.

I'm playing the Devil's advocate, I just want to know more.

1/25/2006 2:59:02 PM

dead men tell no tales.

1/25/2006 3:02:16 PM

Quote :

"What does "telling them they are not allowed to leave" really mean... i"

it meens exactly that.....but they would have to be a fool to stay there. The laws sometimes are in favor of the criminals

Quote :

"I'm playing the Devil's advocate, I just want to know more."

Take a ccw class or LFI 1

[Edited on January 25, 2006 at 3:04 PM. Reason : 1]

1/25/2006 3:03:01 PM

In the original situation, you would likely have been arrested and he probably would have gotten off if there were no witnesses. You can not use deadly force to protect property and since you had not been threatened nor had you seen a weapon, you did not have cause to draw you firearm.
Suck though.

1/25/2006 3:04:23 PM

^I had no intention of using deadly force unless it was necassary... and I didn't... I'm just asking about detaining him. I wouldn't shoot someone over $20. But you're saying that if someone demands that you turn over valuables... that's not an implicit threat, or grounds to draw a firearm?

1/25/2006 3:11:18 PM

ill go back through the statutes and try and find the wording but if i recall correctly, lawmakers believe that if you draw your weapon, you have every intention of using is and shooting someone over property isnt justified.

1/25/2006 3:13:31 PM

You have to refuse to hand over your money. Then, if they show a weapon, you are allowed to use equal force to protect yourself.

1/25/2006 3:13:51 PM

if you could prove that the statement "gimme what ya got." had you in immediate fear of grave bodily harm or death, than you could be justified in showing your weapon.

1/25/2006 3:15:09 PM

^I can't prove that, although I felt it... So technically, you're not even allowed to draw a weapon in that situation?

Well, how do you "prove" that???

[Edited on January 25, 2006 at 3:18 PM. Reason : proof]

1/25/2006 3:17:51 PM

If you felt it than you could prove it.

Because more than likely the idiot that tried to rob you has a record and your lawyer will do the rest

[Edited on January 25, 2006 at 3:20 PM. Reason : 1]

1/25/2006 3:18:57 PM

"So was I right or was I wrong?" (to draw a weapon) to quote Skynyrd

What would you have done in the same situation?

Hell, all you have to do to rob a bank or a retailer is to tell them you're robbing them... I was in my house (apt)

Should I have said "hold on, let me unhook the PS2 and I don't know where my wallet is... gimme a minute..."

1/25/2006 3:27:48 PM

You were in your house? I thought you ment car window?

This is a whole different story.....there is no right to retreat when confronted at your home

If this was at your house I would say it was justified even though deadly force is not allowed to protect property. No Jury would convict someone brandishing a firearm to protect there propert while you were inside your home.

"a man's home is his castle." "Attacked in one's own home, one need not retreat."

[Edited on January 25, 2006 at 3:35 PM. Reason : 1]

1/25/2006 3:31:35 PM

you coulda shot him and claimed he said he's shoot you and poked something around in his pocket... its your word against the dead guys.
and you can detain people, its just not called citizens arrest
http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/enactedlegislation/statutes/html/bysection/chapter_15a/gs_15a-404.html

Quote :

"§ 15A-404. Detention of offenders by private persons. (a) No Arrest; Detention Permitted. – No private person may arrest another person except as provided in G.S. 15A-405. A private person may detain another person as provided in this section. (b) When Detention Permitted. – A private person may detain another person when he has probable cause to believe that the person detained has committed in his presence: (1) A felony, (2) A breach of the peace, (3) A crime involving physical injury to another person, or (4) A crime involving theft or destruction of property. (c) Manner of Detention. – The detention must be in a reasonable manner considering the offense involved and the circumstances of the detention. (d) Period of Detention. – The detention may be no longer than the time required for the earliest of the following: (1) The determination that no offense has been committed. (2) Surrender of the person detained to a law-enforcement officer as provided in subsection (e). (e) Surrender to Officer. – A private person who detains another must immediately notify a law-enforcement officer and must, unless he releases the person earlier as required by subsection (d), surrender the person detained to the law-enforcement officer. (1973, c. 1286, s. 1.) "

1/25/2006 3:31:55 PM

[Edited on January 25, 2006 at 3:32 PM. Reason : -]

1/25/2006 3:32:19 PM

the law as stated above seems to favor me.

[Edited on January 25, 2006 at 3:39 PM. Reason : do what?]

1/25/2006 3:34:15 PM

PLZ to enlighten me on similar situations, esp. those that are more blurry.

1/25/2006 3:43:33 PM

Here's another link with the statute and some analysis/interpretation

http://www.jus.state.nc.us/NCJA/!apr97.htm

1/25/2006 5:16:05 PM

you have the right to use deadly force to stop someone from ENTERING your house. Once they are already in, you have to *feel* that you are in danger to legally use deadly force. i dont know about you but if someone had broken into my house and was coming towards me, I would definately feel like I was in danger, whether he had a weapon or not.

you were right to draw your weapon

1/25/2006 5:20:37 PM

Additionally, http://www.packing.org/state/north_carolina/#statedeadlyforce_law. Pointing a firearm at someone is assault with a deadly weapon. Don't do it unless deadly force is justified. If he's unlawfully intruding into your home to kill you or commit a felony, it's justified. If he casually walks up to your window unarmed and says "Gimme what ya got"... well... my reaction would probably be "no, thanks". Now, if he then tried to climb into the window and stuck his hand in his pocket in a suspicious manner, I'd then feel a little more comfortable having Mr. Colt order him to the ground.

Disclaimer: The above does not constitute legal advice. I am not a lawyer, and if I were, I certainly wouldn't be hanging around TWW handing out free legal advice.

[Edited on January 25, 2006 at 5:30 PM. Reason : you'd think by now I'd know how to add a hyperlink]

1/25/2006 5:28:33 PM

You should have asked "and what if I don't?" provoking him to hopefully threaten you......

But even then its still your word vs. his. A witness would prove handy in this situation.

1/25/2006 6:16:02 PM

I thought you scared him off with a hunting knife since your brother had your gun for the day.

1/25/2006 6:19:17 PM

i also remember a knife being in this story.

1/25/2006 6:42:14 PM

DA: Now Mr Beardawg, would you care to tell the court why you shot poor Mr Jefferson 7 times.

Beardawg: Because I ran out of bullets

1/25/2006 6:46:42 PM

^LMFAO

Quote :

"Once they are already in, you have to *feel* that you are in danger to legally use deadly force."

Oh, I feel ya dawg.

A crackhead once told me that nobody would seriously attempt attempt an (inhabited) home invasion for a robbery unless they either intended to or were capable of harming the inhabitants.

[Edited on January 25, 2006 at 11:46 PM. Reason : Laughing my fucking ass off.]

1/25/2006 11:45:09 PM

and your cat was on your lap...

1/27/2006 9:53:18 AM

Quote :

"Pointing a firearm at someone is assault with a deadly weapon. Don't do it unless deadly force is justified."

this is true however, i heard during a combat pistol class that it is ok to draw and point the weapon in the low ready in certain situations. like if you feel threatened but dont yet have justification for DF.

1/27/2006 10:07:43 AM

Quote :

" shooting someone over property isnt justified."

fuck if its not.

1/27/2006 10:47:16 AM

NCSU Crime Alert:

Quote :

"Thursday evening, 1/26/06, at about 11:30 pm a male student was robbed at the Wachovia ATM in front of the NCSU Bookstore on Dunn Ave. The victim stated that as he was leaving the ATM one masked male placed a sharp object into his stomach while a second masked male pointed another sharp object at his side and said, “Give me what you got.” The victim gave the second suspect his wallet while the first suspect took the victim's cell phone from his belt. Both ran from the scene toward the Talley Courtyard. A third male suspect who was probably a lookout joined the fleeing suspects. The victim, who was not physically harmed, provided the following description."

"give me what you got" must be the popular robbery threat

1/27/2006 1:01:12 PM

Can you carry a tazer gun on campus?

1/27/2006 2:17:46 PM

^ doubtfully, but you can get some 15% pepper spray that would be just as effective

1/27/2006 2:31:36 PM

...but the gimp's sleeping

1/27/2006 2:43:35 PM

so guns aren't allowed on campus?

1/27/2006 4:37:04 PM

pepper spray isnt allowed on campus

1/27/2006 4:56:54 PM

yeah i just read the crime alert, and i immediately thought of this thread.

1/27/2006 5:04:05 PM

pepper spray isnt? What kinda bs...........

1/27/2006 5:18:42 PM

Quote :

"§ 14-269.2. Weapons on campus or other educational property. (a) The following definitions apply to this section: (1) Educational property. – Any school building or bus, school campus, grounds, recreational area, athletic field, or other property owned, used, or operated by any board of education or school board of trustees, or directors for the administration of any school. (1a) Employee. – A person employed by a local board of education or school whether the person is an adult or a minor. (1b) School. – A public or private school, community college, college, or university. (2) Student. – A person enrolled in a school or a person who has been suspended or expelled within the last five years from a school, whether the person is an adult or a minor. (3) Switchblade knife. – A knife containing a blade that opens automatically by the release of a spring or a similar contrivance. (4) Weapon. – Any device enumerated in subsection (b), (b1), or (d) of this section. (b) It shall be a Class I felony for any person to possess or carry, whether openly or concealed, any gun, rifle, pistol, or other firearm of any kind on educational property or to a curricular or extracurricular activity sponsored by a school. Unless the conduct is covered under some other provision of law providing greater punishment, any person who willfully discharges a firearm of any kind on educational property is guilty of a Class F felony. However, this subsection does not apply to a BB gun, stun gun, air rifle, or air pistol. (b1) It shall be a Class G felony for any person to possess or carry, whether openly or concealed, any dynamite cartridge, bomb, grenade, mine, or powerful explosive as defined in G.S. 14-284.1, on educational property or to a curricular or extracurricular activity sponsored by a school. This subsection shall not apply to fireworks. (c) It shall be a Class I felony for any person to cause, encourage, or aid a minor who is less than 18 years old to possess or carry, whether openly or concealed, any gun, rifle, pistol, or other firearm of any kind on educational property. However, this subsection does not apply to a BB gun, stun gun, air rifle, or air pistol. (c1) It shall be a Class G felony for any person to cause, encourage, or aid a minor who is less than 18 years old to possess or carry, whether openly or concealed, any dynamite cartridge, bomb, grenade, mine, or powerful explosive as defined in G.S. 14-284.1 on educational property. This subsection shall not apply to fireworks. (d) It shall be a Class 1 misdemeanor for any person to possess or carry, whether openly or concealed, any BB gun, stun gun, air rifle, air pistol, bowie knife, dirk, dagger, slungshot, leaded cane, switchblade knife, blackjack, metallic knuckles, razors and razor blades (except solely for personal shaving), firework, or any sharp-pointed or edged instrument except instructional supplies, unaltered nail files and clips and tools used solely for preparation of food, instruction, and maintenance, on educational property. (e) It shall be a Class 1 misdemeanor for any person to cause, encourage, or aid a minor who is less than 18 years old to possess or carry, whether openly or concealed, any BB gun, stun gun, air rifle, air pistol, bowie knife, dirk, dagger, slungshot, leaded cane, switchblade knife, blackjack, metallic knuckles, razors and razor blades (except solely for personal shaving), firework, or any sharp-pointed or edged instrument except instructional supplies, unaltered nail files and clips and tools used solely for preparation of food, instruction, and maintenance, on educational property. (f) Notwithstanding subsection (b) of this section it shall be a Class 1 misdemeanor rather than a Class I felony for any person to possess or carry, whether openly or concealed, any gun, rifle, pistol, or other firearm of any kind, on educational property or to a curricular or extracurricular activity sponsored by a school if: (1) The person is not a student attending school on the educational property or an employee employed by the school working on the educational property; and (1a) The person is not a student attending a curricular or extracurricular activity sponsored by the school at which the student is enrolled or an employee attending a curricular or extracurricular activity sponsored by the school at which the employee is employed; and (2) Repealed by Session Laws 1999-211, s. 1, effective December 1, 1999, and applicable to offenses committed on or after that date. (3) The firearm is not loaded, is in a motor vehicle, and is in a locked container or a locked firearm rack. (4) Repealed by Session Laws 1999-211, s. 1, effective December 1, 1999, and applicable to offenses committed on or after that date. (g) This section shall not apply to: (1) A weapon used solely for educational or school-sanctioned ceremonial purposes, or used in a school-approved program conducted under the supervision of an adult whose supervision has been approved by the school authority; (1a) A person exempted by the provisions of G.S. 14-269(b); (2) Firefighters, emergency service personnel, North Carolina Forest Service personnel, and any private police employed by an educational institution, when acting in the discharge of their official duties; (3) Home schools as defined in G.S. 115C-563(a); or (4) Weapons used for hunting purposes on the Howell Woods Nature Center property in Johnston County owned by Johnston Community College when used with the written permission of Johnston Community College or for hunting purposes on other educational property when used with the written permission of the governing body of the school that controls the educational property. (h) No person shall be guilty of a criminal violation of this section with regard to the possession or carrying of a firearm so long as both of the following apply: (1) The person comes into possession of a weapon by taking or receiving the weapon from another person or by finding the weapon. (2) The person delivers the weapon, directly or indirectly, as soon as practical to law enforcement authorities. (1971, c. 241, ss. 1, 2; c. 1224; 1991, c. 622, s. 1; 1993, c. 539, s. 164; c. 558, s. 1; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 14, s. 4(a), (b); 1995, c. 49, s. 1; 1997-238, s. 2; 1999-211, s. 1; 1999-257, s. 3, 3.1; 2003-217, s. 1; 2004-198, ss. 1, 2, 3.) § 14-269.3. Carrying weapons into assemblies and establishments where alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed. (a) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry any gun, rifle, or pistol into any assembly where a fee has been charged for admission thereto, or into any establishment in which alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. (b) This section shall not apply to the following: (1) A person exempted from the provisions of G.S. 14-269; (2) The owner or lessee of the premises or business establishment; (3) A person participating in the event, if he is carrying a gun, rifle, or pistol with the permission of the owner, lessee, or person or organization sponsoring the event; and (4) A person registered or hired as a security guard by the owner, lessee, or person or organization sponsoring the event. (1977, c. 1016, s. 1; 1981, c. 412, s. 4, c. 747, s. 66; 1993, c. 539, s. 165; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c).) § 14-269.4. Weapons on State property and in courthouses. It shall be unlawful for any person to possess, or carry, whether openly or concealed, any deadly weapon, not used solely for instructional or officially sanctioned ceremonial purposes in the State Capitol Building, the Executive Mansion, the Western Residence of the Governor, or on the grounds of any of these buildings, and in any building housing any court of the General Court of Justice. If a court is housed in a building containing nonpublic uses in addition to the court, then this prohibition shall apply only to that portion of the building used for court purposes while the building is being used for court purposes. This section shall not apply to: (1) Repealed by S.L. 1997-238, s. 3. (1a) A person exempted by the provisions of G.S. 14-269(b), (2) through (4) Repealed by S.L. 1997-238, s. 3. (4a) Any person in a building housing a court of the General Court of Justice in possession of a weapon for evidentiary purposes, to deliver it to a law-enforcement agency, or for purposes of registration, (5) State-owned rest areas, rest stops along the highways, and State-owned hunting and fishing reservations. "

In addition, from the code of student conduct:

Quote :

"14.1.23 Weapons Unauthorized use, possession or storage of any weapon on University premises or at University sponsored activities. The term weapon includes but is not limited to: gun, rifle, pistol, bow, dynamite cartridge, bomb, grenade, mine, bowie knife, dirk, dagger, sword, num-chucks, sling shot, leaded cane, switch-blade knife, black jack, metallic knuckles, stun gun, and knife with a blade five or more inches in length. It also includes chemicals such as "mace," "pepper spray" or tear-gas (if used in an illegal manner). "

Carry pepper spray. It's cheap, you can carry it anywhere, and it won't get you in legal trouble. No cop would take away pepper spray from a college girl unless he's a complete idiot. Hell, I carry pepper spray when I go out drinking and I'm a 23 year old construction worker. If you're robbed with a gun you'll just have to give 'em what you got.

[Edited on January 27, 2006 at 9:03 PM. Reason : .]

1/27/2006 8:57:29 PM

yeah i was just pointing out how stupid that is

Quote :

"The term weapon includes but is not limited to: gun, rifle, pistol, bow, dynamite cartridge, bomb, grenade, mine, bowie knife, dirk, dagger, sword, num-chucks, sling shot, leaded cane, switch-blade knife, black jack, metallic knuckles, stun gun, and knife with a blade five or more inches in length. It also includes chemicals such as "mace," "pepper spray" or tear-gas "

1/27/2006 9:02:08 PM

Quote :

"(if used in an illegal manner)."

Don't selectively quote. Just don't mace your instructor or your buddy for the hell of it(heheh) and you'll be fine.

[Edited on January 27, 2006 at 9:07 PM. Reason : .]

1/27/2006 9:03:59 PM

i didnt do that on purpose
i read that like it was for tear gas

1/27/2006 9:22:07 PM

I didn't read this whole thread, but I know that if someone is on your property and assaults or threatens your well-being, you are legally allowed to protect yourself. I'm not sure about on the job, but I would assume being an employee of the owner of the property, you would be legally allowed to protect yourself.

1/27/2006 10:04:59 PM

I've forgotten what a dirk is.

1/28/2006 2:13:47 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_imprisonment

[Edited on January 28, 2006 at 3:45 PM. Reason : holla]

1/28/2006 3:36:17 PM