Quote :

"The Mexican government, angered by a U.S. proposal to extend a wall along the border to keep out migrants, pledged Tuesday to block the plan and organize an international campaign against it. Facing a growing tide of anti-immigrant sentiment north of the border, the Mexican government has taken out ads urging Mexican workers to denounce rights violations in the United States. It also is hiring an American public relations firm to improve its image and counter growing U.S. concerns about immigration."

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/12/20/D8EK9N0G6.html

Yes, and considering how the U.S. always panders to other countries, especially third-world countries, I'm sure President Bush will withdraw the plan for the wall.

Or, he could grow a sack and make the wall higher, longer, and thicker, with motion sensor turrets pointed at Mexico.

But that's a little far-fetched.

12/20/2005 9:01:18 PM

If by "grow a sack" you mean "turn into a horrible xenophobic racist who deserves whatever bad thing comes to him," then yeah, sure.

12/20/2005 10:21:06 PM

PROTECT OUR AMERICAN HERITAGE

12/20/2005 10:28:34 PM

The American heritage is freedom, and as long as immigrants or anyone else aren't opposed to that, then they are part of American heritage.

And yes, I know you were being sarcastic.

12/20/2005 10:34:55 PM

I thought the American heritage was slavery, genocide, and conquest?

But, that's what the Mexicans want to.

12/20/2005 10:38:04 PM

The American heritage has its tainted moments, but the general trend is freedom.

And I'll make up for the taints, God willing.

12/20/2005 10:47:21 PM

DEY TOOK R JURRRRBS

12/20/2005 10:47:39 PM

Emma Lazarus = pwnt

12/20/2005 10:52:50 PM

Quote :

"Mr. Bush, tear down this wall!"

12/20/2005 11:08:49 PM

Bush has been fairily light on immigration, especially for a Republican. It's one of the few things that I actively like about him.

[Edited on December 20, 2005 at 11:27 PM. Reason : that said,tear down tha mothafuckin' wall]

12/20/2005 11:27:26 PM

It would be nice of those immigrants would pay income taxes. Right now they overcrowd our schools and burden our social programs disproportionately, which is not fair to taxpaying families.

12/20/2005 11:57:00 PM

o rly?

Go choke on xenophobia's colletive penis elsewhere, you liberty hating son of a whore

12/21/2005 12:00:04 AM

interesting counterpoint.

There is no xenophobia contained within my post. Just facts.

Why all the emotions? You are throwing a fit like a damn liberal.

12/21/2005 12:02:19 AM

If they were allowed into this country like they are supposed to be, they'd be paying income taxes. As it is, a racist and xenophobic system prevents them from being able to partake in their legal rights -- and responsibilities.

As it happens, I value freedom first, and your petty greed later. Meaning that as it stands, my preferences are, in descending order:

1) That immigration into this country be essentially free and unhindered;
2) That immigrants who have to defy unjust laws to get into this country be allowed to participate in the system once they are here;
3) That immigrants who have to defy unjust laws to get into this country live as best they can, even if that means existing outside of the law on certain occasions where doing otherwise would result in their expulsion from the country.

As it stands, the best I can do is #3. Meaning that until the situation changes, I have no problem with illegal immigrants who don't pay income taxes because doing so would cause the government to unrighteously violate their God given right to live where they so choose.

12/21/2005 1:31:56 AM

They pay sales taxes though. And if most of them had to pay income taxes, they would probably get all of it (if not more...) back.

I'm just guessing, but I can't see their net income taxes to be too significant.

[Edited on December 21, 2005 at 1:35 AM. Reason : ]

12/21/2005 1:34:57 AM

I'm also curious as to the numbers indicating that our schools are so positively flooded with Mexicans. Also how educating people who will inevitably be part of our workforce is a bad thing.

12/21/2005 1:43:41 AM

Just look at California schools. They suck. I don't blame that all on mexican immigrants, but they are frequently cited as reasons for poorly performing school districts because of language barriers and large classroom sizes.

There are an estimated 11 million undocumented immigrants in this country. If you can't see how that could be a burden on local government programs as well as federal programs, you are ignoring the problem.

And yes, immigrants CAN pay income taxes. Most choose not to. Do some fucking research.

12/21/2005 1:50:19 AM

^ 11 million is a lot. I bet though if every single 1 of them were kicked out, the US wouldn't magically be a better places, where other Americans will be better off because of a reduced burden on social systems.

Also, why would an illegal pay income tax, when they can be kicked out at any minute? It's like if you sent money to the gov. everytime you bought some marijuana, because you weren't paying sales tax on it.

I bet the gov. could get a LOT more money by seeking out sales tax payments from suburban white kids who by weed, ecstasy, and cocaine. Those dirty leeches are stealing from the gov. and DOING SOMETHING ILLEGAL.

[Edited on December 21, 2005 at 1:57 AM. Reason : d]

12/21/2005 1:56:12 AM

illegals are alleviating our social security problems

12/21/2005 1:58:25 AM

Quote :

"they are frequently cited by ignorant racists as reasons for poorly performing school districts"

I fixed it for you.

Quote :

"If you can't see how that could be a burden on local government programs as well as federal programs, you are ignoring the problem."

Yeah, it's a burden, but it's one that the government and the people deserve for supporting horribly unjust immigration laws.

Quote :

"And yes, immigrants CAN pay income taxes. Most choose not to"

You're so ignorant of the problem that it hurts me to read.

Immigrants CAN do quite a few more things than they do. They refrain from doing those things not out of greed, but because they're terrified that it will lead to their deportation.

This is why so many don't have insurance, don't trust banks, don't pay the taxes that they could, etc. If you want them to do those things, how about you start by not acting like a prick that would send them packing at the drop of a hat and instead convince them that doing their civic duty won't result in their expulsion.

12/21/2005 1:58:32 AM

The IRS never reports suspicious filings to the INS. It just doesn't happen. On the contrary, the IRS actively markets the ITIN (an alternative to a SSN) to illegal immigrant communities in hopes that they can tax the incomes of these workers. They promote the fact that they do not work with the INS and do not require citizenship identification in order for someone to get an Individual Tax Identification Number.

[Edited on December 21, 2005 at 2:05 AM. Reason : 2]

12/21/2005 2:03:18 AM

12/21/2005 2:03:25 AM

^^Amazing how all of that is lost on an immigrant denied a basic civic education.

12/21/2005 2:05:30 AM

Quote :

"Facing a growing tide of anti-immigrant sentiment north of the border, the Mexican government has taken out ads urging Mexican workers to denounce rights violations in the United States. "

I dunno if that's wise. If that happens, the United States government is going to be forced into enforcing the laws, and that will probably lead to a crackdown and deportation of illegal immigrants before improving their working rights (since they're working illegally). It would hurt us, but it would be catastrophic for Mexico.

12/21/2005 2:12:20 AM

Quote :

"The IRS has designated "acceptance agents" who are authorized to assist applicants in obtaining ITINs. IRS?s website describes acceptance agencies as entities, such as colleges, financial institutions, accounting firms, etc. The "etc." is important because it is believed that some acceptance agents are touting the fact that the IRS will not share information with the INS. ... The Chicago Tribune reported: "Despite growth in the tax IDs, experts say many immigrants will get the IDs only after assurances that immigration authorities will not be involved. . . . 'They think they will get deported,' said Salvador Gonzalez, director of the Midwest Tax Clinic, a Chicago non-profit agency that helps immigrants obtain the IDs. ?But now people are losing their fear, and I am very, very happy about this.'"19 ""

interesting stuff

But yes, Moron is right. The vast majority of illegal immigrants are in a low enough tax bracket that they would actually get some money back in most situations.

12/21/2005 2:13:31 AM

I think you made my point for me:

Quote :

""Despite growth in the tax IDs, experts say many immigrants will get the IDs only after assurances that immigration authorities will not be involved. . . . 'They think they will get deported,'"

12/21/2005 2:14:59 AM

Quote :

"But now people are losing their fear"

you left that part out

Quote :

"they are frequently cited by ignorant racists teachers unions as reasons for poorly performing school districts" "

fixed it for you

[Edited on December 21, 2005 at 2:16 AM. Reason : 2]

12/21/2005 2:15:57 AM

Quote :

"you left that part out "

The tone of the article certain seemed to imply that "losing their fear" meand "paying their taxes."

Quote :

"fixed it for you"

Teachers unions can be as full of ignorant racists as any other group.

12/21/2005 2:20:17 AM

This is pathetic. You are reduced to playing the race card when your arguments fail you. How sad.

12/21/2005 2:22:49 AM

Prawn Star is going to quote something next that shows that immigrants perform worse because the "teachers unions" resist helping students in spanish.

12/21/2005 2:23:27 AM

Perhaps "xenophobic" would have been more accurate than "racist," but both are equally reprehensible.

12/21/2005 2:25:57 AM

I would just like to mention here that the income tax problems of immigration would be gone if we adopted the FairTax. Since sales taxes require two to tango, the odds are good that everyone would be paying federal taxes.

From my libertarian viewpoint, people should be allowed to pursue their dreams (as long as they don't violate the laws of force and fraud). Our country was built on the backs of immigrants yearning to breathe free and all that.

But in this day of terrorists, I would sleep better if we controlled the influx, but not curtail it. Let's check them over a bit before we let them in.

We should make it easier for quality immigrants to have a stake in the country. Perhaps we could let them become citizens after 3-4 years of holding down a job, not taking any gov't assistance and not committing any crimes. We want to attract hard-working people who will contribute to society...not more parasites who can't wait to vote themselves more of everyone else's stuff.

12/21/2005 2:30:56 AM

you are forgetting that something like 40% of crime in this nation is caused by people who shouldnt even be here. Thats a big number. I can find the source to cite right now becasue im at work, but Im pretty sure that is right. Based on my own observation in law enforcement i can say that it is a pretty accurate percentage. Im all for the people who want a better life and a job argument, but the problem with the open border is that a HUGE criminal element comes with it. were talkin violent latino gangs. It seems this is a side of the argument that no one ever seems to mention. There needs to be some form of control and screening.

12/21/2005 2:31:11 AM

Quote :

"I don't blame that all on mexican immigrants, but they are frequently cited as reasons for poorly performing school districts because of language barriers and large classroom sizes. "

this is why we have an active ESL program. i come from an area with a very high concentration of immigrants and my HS was ESL as well. when placed in classes that combine english education with a normal curriculum, students generally do much better than when placed in normal classes taught in english. placing a immigrant student in a non spanish-speaking classroom is just asking for trouble. this is where opponents of biligual opportunities for students fail in their arguments.

off topic a little, i know.

so what if you dont want bilingual opportunities, but you want immigration? well, youre just asking for people to come over and be alienated, thus resorting in possible social upheaval in the schools.

of course, you could just be one of those people who wants to build a wall with sentries and everything. if so, well, im not going to call you a name like "xenophobe", but lets just say you need to lay off listening to the far right pundits and nativist douchebags.

12/21/2005 2:32:57 AM

Quote :

"But in this day of terrorists, I would sleep better if we controlled the influx, but not curtail it. Let's check them over a bit before we let them in."

Agreed.

Quote :

"were talkin violent latino gangs."

This problem is a function of things that have little or nothing to do with the legality of immigration.

12/21/2005 2:33:11 AM

i agree with EarthDogg on all points

although i need to study all of the alternatives to and arguments for/against the FairTax a little more...but from what I know about it, I like it a lot.

12/21/2005 3:14:20 AM

Quote :

"Or, he could grow a sack and make the wall higher, longer, and thicker, with motion sensor turrets pointed at Mexico."

I like, very old-school Republican.

12/21/2005 3:22:07 AM

More like, Old-School Democrat.

AMIRITE.

12/21/2005 1:49:24 PM

i agree with GrumpyGOP on most of what he said.

[Edited on December 21, 2005 at 2:31 PM. Reason : ]

12/21/2005 2:31:49 PM

What does it say about a person who wants to join American society that the first the he or she does to earn that citizenship is break the rules of that country.

So they're willing to break American laws to get here... what else would they be willing to break?

12/21/2005 2:36:50 PM

[Edited on December 21, 2005 at 2:55 PM. Reason : i needed to post this somewhere for fun, figured i'd might as well post it in here]

12/21/2005 2:53:15 PM

Marko

I like the RED flag the worker is carrying on the bottom LEFT.

The workers have struck for fame
Cause Lennon is on sale gain
-D. Bowie

12/21/2005 3:21:54 PM

Hammer on the left too.

Shovel and dead child on the right.

12/21/2005 3:22:47 PM

Yes, it's old communist propaganda.


This whole wall thing might help to solve one problem, but it would cause a whole host of others, most notably of which would probably be to label America as a completely racist country. After that comes economic problems due to a shortage of labor, doubled hostility from south american countries, violent protests from immigrants already in country, etc. So yeah, fuck the wall and solve the problem another way.

12/21/2005 8:59:16 PM

Quote :

"What does it say about a person who wants to join American society that the first the he or she does to earn that citizenship is break the rules of that country."

What it says is probably, "I want to live in a free and prosperous country really, really bad." I don't see that as an insult, either.

Quote :

"So they're willing to break American laws to get here... what else would they be willing to break?"

Any law that restricts their basic human rights, I suspect.

12/21/2005 9:13:38 PM

Quote :

"Or, he could grow a sack and make the wall higher, longer, and thicker, with motion sensor turrets pointed at Mexico."

George Bush putting the will of the vast majority of citizens ahead of a mexican politician. That would be nice, wouldn't it? The only way it will happen is for some in congress to draft a really bold law. Bush would bitch and moan, but he's too much of a pussy to veto anything.

[Edited on December 21, 2005 at 10:25 PM. Reason : -]

12/21/2005 10:17:32 PM

Bush's responsibility isn't to the mexican populace. It's to the American electorate. And overwhelming opinion in this country is that immigration is a problem. And it is. We have no idea who's here that should be and who's here that shouldn't be. The border is as inpentrable as swiss cheese. Something needs to be done about it.

If we want to solve this problem, we would pass CAFTA that would start the growing of a middle class in Mexico. If Mexico wasn't such a shit hole and people could earn a decent living, they might not want to cross the border. The answer to this problem isn't making two nations into one. Especially while they're having their children for free, getting free health benefits, sending their kids to our schools for free... American fucking citizens don't even get that. It's bullshit.

12/22/2005 1:19:05 AM

Quote :

" Especially while they're having their children for free, getting free health benefits, sending their kids to our schools for free... American fucking citizens don't even get that. It's bullshit. "

Your claims are dubious... but poor Americans do get those things.

12/22/2005 1:41:15 AM

I'm not even going to read this shit.

gg on the tinge of racism in the thread title.

12/22/2005 1:50:17 AM

Because the American poor gets that does not justify the fact that foreign aliens who broke the law to get here is afforded better healthcare than law-biding, tax paying citizens of this country.

That's just wrong to me and I think it's almost insulting to every tax payer that this is actually going on.

12/22/2005 11:00:18 AM