http://www.christianitytoday.com/history/newsletter/2000/dec08.html

Quote :

"Why December 25? For the church's first three centuries, Christmas wasn't in December—or on the calendar at all. Elesha Coffman [...] Origen (c.185-c.254) preached that it would be wrong to honor Christ in the same way Pharaoh and Herod were honored. Birthdays were for pagan gods. [...] The eventual choice of December 25, made perhaps as early as 273, reflects a convergence of Origen's concern about pagan gods and the church's identification of God's son with the celestial sun. December 25 already hosted two other related festivals: natalis solis invicti (the Roman "birth of the unconquered sun"), and the birthday of Mithras, the Iranian "Sun of Righteousness" whose worship was popular with Roman soldiers. The winter solstice, another celebration of the sun, fell just a few days earlier. Seeing that pagans were already exalting deities with some parallels to the true deity, church leaders decided to commandeer the date and introduce a new festival. [...] The pagan origins of the Christmas date, as well as pagan origins for many Christmas customs (gift-giving and merrymaking from Roman Saturnalia; greenery, lights, and charity from the Roman New Year; Yule logs and various foods from Teutonic feasts), have always fueled arguments against the holiday. "It's just paganism wrapped with a Christian bow," naysayers argue. But while kowtowing to worldliness must always be a concern for Christians, the church has generally viewed efforts to reshape culture—including holidays—positively. As a theologian asserted in 320, "We hold this day holy, not like the pagans because of the birth of the sun, but because of him who made it.""

Any real "Christian" should know that the Bible does not command (or even speak about) celebrating the birthday of "Jesus Christ." His specific date of birth is not even mentioned in the Bible. And now even so-called "Christians" acknowledge and admit the pagan origins and customs of the holiday, but they try to justify the holiday by saying that it can be "used for good" or "used to reshape culture."

The major problem with that, as any real "Christian" should plainly see after thinking about it for a few minutes, is that the Bible strongly condemns any association or involvement witih pagan/occult rituals and practices. To take pagan/occult rituals, and then call it "Christian" is an abomination. It is accepting and giving sanction to those pagan/occult rituals, practices, and customs. It is a very serious issue. Worship of the Sun (the celestial body) and worship of "Mithras" is ultimately Luciferianism/Satanism.

Let's be honest and clear. The holiday known as "Christ's Mass" has absolutely NO basis in the Bible. NONE. It is of pagan origin, and only became associated with "Jesus Christ" when the apostate Church of Rome decided to hold on to the pagan holiday and give it a "Christian" name. It serves to debase "Jesus Christ" by associating him with pagan/occult practices and rituals, and encourages people to accept and participate in pagan rituals, customs, and practices.


[Edited on December 13, 2005 at 3:15 PM. Reason : `]

12/13/2005 3:10:32 PM

12/13/2005 3:14:24 PM

Quote :

"To take pagan/occult rituals, and then call it "Christian" is an abomination. It is accepting and giving sanction to those pagan/occult rituals, practices, and customs. It is a very serious issue. Worship of the Sun (the celestial body) and worship of "Mithras" is ultimately Luciferianism/Satanism."

Christmas is not a pagan/occult ritual. Its just on the same day. Shit son.

Hitler's birthday is on April 20th. Does that mean that all of the potheads who get baked on 4/20 are actually participating in a national socialist ritual?

12/13/2005 3:19:21 PM

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/33724

12/13/2005 3:23:46 PM

Quote :

"Christmas is not a pagan/occult ritual. Its just on the same day."

Virtually all of the customs associated with "Christ's Mass" are of pagan origin, including the "Christmas tree", mistle toe, gift-giving, yule logs, etc.

Quote :

"The pagan origins of the Christmas date, as well as pagan origins for many Christmas customs (gift-giving and merrymaking from Roman Saturnalia; greenery, lights, and charity from the Roman New Year; Yule logs and various foods from Teutonic feasts), have always fueled arguments against the holiday."

Also, the date of the holiday is on the birthday of the "unconquered sun" or "Mithras" (both pagan gods). The secret about the "uncoquered sun" and "Mithras" is that worship of these is ultimately worship of Lucifer/Satan. That is what paganism/occultism ultimately goes back to. So, if you celebrate "Christmas", you are REALLY celebrating the birthday of this pagan god "Mithras" and are participating in paganism/occultism/Luciferianism (whether you know it or not).

[Edited on December 13, 2005 at 3:26 PM. Reason : `]

12/13/2005 3:24:22 PM

Salisburyboy is absolutely right with his facts, though I disagree that there's been any sort of mass conspiracy to keep this hidden. Kinda funny, because he sounds a lot like a Puritan Calvinist with this post.

12/13/2005 3:26:30 PM

Quote :

"So, if you celebrate "Christmas", you are REALLY celebrating the birthday of this pagan god "Mithras.""

No, I celebrate Christmas to celebrate the birth of Christ, regardless of the date. Minor details like a christmas tree and a yule log do no make it a pagan ritual.

I celebrate the birthday of Mithras with a blood orgy on December 27. They are two totally different things.

12/13/2005 3:28:08 PM

well youre pertty fucking stupid if you think the 25th of December is Jesus' birthday.

[Edited on December 13, 2005 at 3:30 PM. Reason : not you specifically MrJoshua, just people in general]

12/13/2005 3:30:20 PM

You're also pretty fucking stupid if you think that George Washington and Abe Lincoln both celebrated their birthdays on the third monday in february.

Who cares? Its a holiday. If you don't like it, don't celebrate it.

12/13/2005 3:35:20 PM

except thats presidents day

not presidents birthday

12/13/2005 3:36:28 PM

So who should we march on, salisburyboy?

[Edited on December 13, 2005 at 3:37 PM. Reason : the Jews? the Fed? we need orders.]

12/13/2005 3:36:39 PM

I seriously already won this thread.

12/13/2005 3:37:41 PM

Hey salisburyboy, why don't we all just celebrate hanukkah instead?

12/13/2005 3:38:14 PM

Thanks for the heads up.

12/13/2005 3:38:24 PM

SALISBURYBOY

YOUR ENTIRE RELIGION IS BASED UP ON PAGAN STORIES, IDEAS, AND PRINCIPLES

I HAVE TOLD YOU THIS COUNTLESS TIMES, AND YOU CONTINUE TO IGNORE ME

This was even obvious to early christians, who were constantly made fun of by their pagan friends for believing in a religion that was so similar to theirs (but newer).

Quote :

"A Christian writer of the fourth century AD, recounted ongoing disputes between Pagans and Christians over the remarkable similarities of the death and resurrection of their two Gods. The Pagans argued that their God was older and therefore original. The Christians admitted Christ came later, but claimed Attis was a work of the devil whose similarity to Christ, and the fact he predated Christ, were intended to confuse and mislead men. This was apparently the stock answer -- the Christian apologist Tertullian makes the same argument."

that's familiar, eh? GOD PUT THE BONES THERE IN THAT ORDER WITH PERFECT ARRANGEMENTS TO TRICK US! THE DINOSAURS AND ADAM AND EVE LIVED AT THE SAME TIME, 6,000 YEARS AGO

http://www.medmalexperts.com/POCM/

Quote :

" The POCM web site introduces you to the mainstream modern scholarship about Christianity's origins in ancient Pagan religion. You already know Christmas trees and Easter eggs were originally Pagan, and you probably know the traditional mid-winter and spring timing of the two holidays was Pagan too. Mildly interesting. Not what you'll find here. What you'll discover here is that Christianity inherited everything from the Pagans. The core of Christianity -- the worship of a dying Godman who is resurrected, ascends into heaven and brings salvation to mankind -- was also the core of a number of ancient Pagan religions that began in the Near East two thousand years before Jesus. Christian theology borrowed more than the archaic myth of the dying-resurrected Godman. Initiation by baptism, communion with the God through a holy meal that represented the flesh of the dead God, the Holy Spirit, monotheism, and immortality of the soul were all core beliefs of many ancient faiths. They were simply part of ancient Mediterranean culture. Christianity also borrowed elements of Jesus' mythology: the virgin birth, the miracles (including turning water into wine, walking on water, and especially healing the sick) were all common elements of pre-Christian Pagan religions. Mithras had 'em. So did Dionysus, Attis, Osiris, and Orpheus. And more. And they had them centuries before Christianity was a twinkle in Saint Paul's eye."

Quote :

"Mithras was originally Persian. Before Rome. When the Christ myth was new Mithras and Mithraism were already ancient. Worshiped for centuries as God's Messenger of Truth, Mithras was long revered by the Persians (Zoroastrianism) and the Indians (see the Vedic literature). Dating Mithras Persia In Persia Mithras fades into prehistory -- 3,000 BC Rome Plutarch (Pompey, 24, 7) and Servilius (Georgics, 4, 127) say Pompey imported Mithraism into Rome after defeating the Cilician pirates around 70 BC. Mithras appears epigraphically in the circles of the Roman emperor in the first century AD -- around the time the canonical Christian Gospels were written (Corpus Incscriptionum Latinarum, 6, 732), Statues of the God were present by 101 AD (Corpus Incscriptionum Latinarum, 6, 718). As with Attis, Christian apologist Justin Martyr (1 Apologia, 66, 4) denounces the devil for having sent a God so similar to Jesus -- yet preceding him. Sadly there's a lot we don't know about this faith that comforted million of souls. Early Christians established the dominance of their religion by exterminating Mithras' faithful, razing His temples, burning His sacred texts. We do know He was buried in a tomb from which He rose again from the dead -- an event celebrated yearly with much rejoicing. Every year in Rome, in the middle of winter, the Son of God was born one more, putting an end to darkness. Every year at first minute of December 25th the temple of Mithras was lit with candles, priests in in white garments celebrated the birth of the Son of God and boys burned incense. Mithras was born in a cave, on December 25th, of a virgin mother. He came from heaven to be born as a man, to redeem men from their sin. He was know as "Savior," "Son of God," "Redeemer," and "Lamb of God." His followers kept the Sabbath holy, eating sacramental meals in remembrance of Him. The sacred meal of bread and water, or bread and wine, was symbolic of the body and blood of the sacred bull. Baptism in the blood of the bull (taurobolium) -- early Baptism "washed in the blood of the Lamb" -- late Baptism by water [recorded by the Christian author Tertullian] Mithraic rituals brought about the transformation and Salvation of His adherents -- an ascent of the soul of the adherent into the realm of the divine. From the wall of a Mithraic temple in Rome: "And thou hast saved us by shedding the eternal blood." The great Mithraic festivals celebrated His birth (at the winter solstice) and His death and resurrection (at the spring solstice) "

Quote :

"Attis' worshipers at a sacramental meal of bread and wine. The wine represented the God's blood; the bread became the body of the savoir. They were baptized in this way: a bull was placed over a grating, the devotee stood under the grating. The bull was stabbed with a consecrated spear. "It's hot reeking blood poured in torrents through the apertures and was received with devout eagerness by the worshiper...who had been born again to eternal life and had washed away his sins in the blood of the bull." [for more see Frazer, Attis, chapter 1] Called "the Good Sheppard," the "Most High God," the "Only Begotten Son" and "Savior." [In Rome the new birth and the remission of sins by shedding of bull's blood took place on what is now Vatican Hill, in our days the site of the great basilica of St. Peter's] The Festival of Joy -- the celebration of Attis' death and rebirth On March 22 a pine tree was brought to the sanctuary of Cybele, on it hung the effigy of Attis. The God was dead.Two days of mourning followed. On the eve of the third day, March 25th, the worshippers turned to joy. "

[Edited on December 13, 2005 at 4:50 PM. Reason : ,]

[Edited on December 13, 2005 at 4:51 PM. Reason : .]

12/13/2005 4:38:50 PM

Quote :

"I seriously already won this thread."

in truth
the only way to "win" a salisbury thread

is to never open it

12/13/2005 5:46:47 PM

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=salsburyboy&btnG=Google+Search

[Edited on December 13, 2005 at 5:57 PM. Reason : YOU ARE FAMOUS]

12/13/2005 5:57:22 PM

There's no conspiracy, but he's right, that it was a pagan holiday.

Of course, most christians dont know that.

But any practicing pagan worth their salt does.

However,

Quote :

"It is a very serious issue. Worship of the Sun (the celestial body) and worship of "Mithras" is ultimately Luciferianism/Satanism. "

Is absolutely fucking false. You cant worship what you don't believe exists. Pagans who worship anything other than christianity are no more Luciferian or Satanistic than a Bhuddist, or anyone else!

Now STFU.

[Edited on December 13, 2005 at 6:51 PM. Reason : .]

12/13/2005 6:49:36 PM

[old]

how the heck can you think this is some kind of conspiracy? I went to Catholic school and we were taught this.

12/13/2005 7:03:53 PM

old

12/13/2005 7:06:45 PM

12/13/2005 7:13:19 PM

Well, considering my Bible lists the year of Christ's birth as being either 5 or 6 B.C., it's not surprising. If the Gregorian calender misses the year by six, how could one get the day right?

Quote :

""It is a very serious issue. Worship of the Son (the celestial body) and worship of "Mithras" is ultimately Luciferianism/Satanism.""

This is technically wrong. Pagans don't believe in any Christianity. To be Luciferian or Satanic, you have to believe in God, otherwise you could not believe in Lucifer or Satan.

What's your denomination, I'm guessing Baptist?

[Edited on December 13, 2005 at 8:41 PM. Reason : .]

12/13/2005 8:36:07 PM

Mom, I'm not celibrating christmas anymore, it's a pagan holiday, everyone but me isn't a real christian. Oh, and ca we get high speed internet in the basement, infowars is taking for ever to load. Ok, I'm going to the bathroom for a while, DONT BOTHER ME.

12/13/2005 9:40:14 PM

Jesus is the reason for the season... not pagans.

12/13/2005 10:08:38 PM

yeah, except jesus is a xerox of pagan god men

12/13/2005 10:24:59 PM

^^^bwahahahahah

^ you're so tolerant and respectful of my faith.

[Edited on December 13, 2005 at 10:27 PM. Reason : .]

12/13/2005 10:26:31 PM

dude

i'm plenty tolerant and respectful of it. i'm just telling you where it came from.

thing is, i see nothing wrong with you worshipping a pagan god man. go for it, it's your right. I just figure if I were worshipping someone, I'd at least like to know the origins of his story.

[Edited on December 13, 2005 at 10:36 PM. Reason : .]

12/13/2005 10:36:19 PM

hah ok

12/13/2005 10:38:01 PM

everyone already knows this, your not changing anyones mind, shut up

12/14/2005 3:23:55 AM

nothing new, no conspiracy here. we learned about this in sunday school when i was like 13.

its like saying theres a conspiracy not to let americans know the capitals of all 50 states.

12/14/2005 8:32:17 AM

Quote :

"LOUSY TRANSLATION... OR BIGGEST LIE OF ALL TIME? ADAM & ED! GAY COUPLE WERE FIRST HUMANS A BOMBSHELL discovery in an ancient cave in the Middle East may result in a rewriting of the entire first chapter of the Bible, say experts. Following a map drawn in a Dead Sea-like scroll found weeks before, archaeologists discovered an old tomb in a cave on a hillside containing the remains of the first two humans created by God -- and DNA tests reveal they were both MEN! And in another explosive revelation, the ancient scroll reveals that Eve did NOT give Adam the apple and she is not to blame for their being expelled from the Garden of Eden. The scientists say their ground breaking discovery of the tomb proves -- definitely -- that Adam and Ed were the first humans, created 10,000 years ago. Eve was formed later after the Almighty realized he'd made a gigantic goof, says Dr. Gustav Von Ibson, who headed the team that discovered the tomb and scroll. "According to the scroll containing the map that led us to the bodies, God was exhausted by the sixth day after creating the earth and all the creatures on it," says Von Ibson, head of antiquities at the University of Copenhagen in Denmark. "He apparently lost his focus after creating Adam, so when he decided to give him a companion, he accidentally created another man, Ed, from Adam's rib. "When he realized that there was no mate for Adam to procreate with to create more humans to populate the earth, God created Eve -- but the scroll does not say from what." This caused the first love triangle and a horrible mess, says Von Ibson. "Since Ed was made from Adam's rib and was around before Eve, Adam took a tremendous shine to him. "He actually preferred Ed to Eve and refused to cozy up to her." The tug of love between Ed and Eve continued with Adam as the prize. Both began wooing him with gifts."

http://www.weeklyworldnews.com/features/religion/61526

I provided a link, thus making it true.

12/14/2005 11:35:37 AM

[/the troll makes another useless contribution to a thread]

12/14/2005 11:46:15 AM

really is another useless contribution hurting a useless thread full of useless contributions?

12/14/2005 11:47:04 AM

you do realize trolls that your trolling bttt's these threads?

12/14/2005 11:50:24 AM

you do realize that nobody is reading them anyway?

12/14/2005 11:51:14 AM

nobody? even you, the at least half a dozen others who've responded, and the 359 who've viewed the thread?

12/14/2005 12:00:07 PM

i have no idea what this thread is about other than the title, because that tells me enough

12/14/2005 12:00:47 PM

Quote :

"[/the troll makes another useless contribution to a thread]"

You've gotten awfully defensive and snappy today, is something wrong?

Quote :

"the at least half a dozen others who've responded"

Those people all called you out for being a dumbass.

12/14/2005 12:02:38 PM

12/14/2005 12:04:04 PM

MERRY CHRISTMAS SOAP BOX!

12/24/2014 11:21:56 AM

my gf's roommate hates celebrating Christmas because it "violates her ideals"

she's also depressed a lot

i wonder why

12/24/2014 11:56:22 AM

In all fairness, a large secular pro-consumerism holiday that was invented be a giant multi-national so do company is a pretty offensive thing to celebrate during this time of obesity and economic hardship

12/24/2014 12:55:56 PM

you don't have to celebrate it in that way though

also there are enough things to be offended about that you could be offended 24/7 if you choose

[Edited on December 24, 2014 at 2:04 PM. Reason : .]

12/24/2014 1:59:55 PM

So was salisburyboy a Jehovah's Witness?

1/5/2015 8:59:59 AM