The government said three people died in Tuesday's violence in this coastal village northeast of Hong Kong, but witnesses put the death toll as high as 20.

The commander's "wrong actions" were to blame for the deaths, said a statement issued by the government of Guangdong province, where Dongzhou is located. ...

The police shootings Tuesday were the deadliest known clash yet amid growing anger in areas throughout China over government land seizures for construction of power plants, shopping malls and other projects.

Farmers often complain they are paid too little. Some accuse local authorities of stealing compensation money.

Such incidents have alarmed communist leaders, who are promising to spend more to raise living standards in the poor countryside, home to about 800 million people.

By the government's count, China had more than 70,000 cases of rural unrest last year. Protests are growing more violent, with injuries on both sides.

12/12/2005 12:00:32 AM

The Three Gorges Dam over there has already displaced 1 million people and will have displaced twice that many by the time it's finished...

the more you know

12/12/2005 12:50:00 AM

Fire drill gone bad

12/12/2005 10:04:10 AM

When did that happen Mr. Snark ? Just curious, was trying to find it on the Hong Kong news, but I was not sucessful.

I visited China about a year ago and I was surprised how open it was. There are stores that take money and so on. I mean it is in some nontrivial sense a capitalist soceity, at least in the province I visited. You can come and go where you please, and the food and resources seem to be earned not rationed. I understand it was not always that way, for example about 20 years back food was rationed so if you didn't have a ration it didn't matter how much $$ you had, you were stuck. But now supply and demand are at work rather than just some set of rations put in place by the central government. Also you can have more than one child, just if you do there are penalities (Taxes and you'll loose your government job if you have one...)

I guess the main remaining difference if free speech and individual rights. You cannot discuss God openly in the government schools there for example... hmmm sounds kind of familar...

I suppose the removal of God from all aspects of communist life must be welcomed by secular liberals in this country. It is really very simple when you think about it,

1. In the communist system the government owns everything
2. Seperation of church and state dictates that there can be no church in the state.
3. Hence, no church.

So there you go, extrapolate the current trends in the US and we'll find the same result. Increase the role of government to every facet of our existence then we will be forbade from discussing religion in our everyday life. Simply for the fear of violating this "sacred" principal of secularism, the separation of church and state. That is one of the many reasons I want to see a smaller federal government ASAP.

[Edited on December 12, 2005 at 3:43 PM. Reason : no this was not the point of the tread, and I do not care.]

12/12/2005 3:43:02 PM

Quote :

"You cannot discuss God openly in the government schools there for example... hmmm sounds kind of familar..."

no, no it doesn't

FRIEND OR FOE

12/12/2005 3:44:51 PM

Quote :

"Seperation of church and state dictates that there can be no church in the state"

you're the dumbest fucking poster yet

GOOD THING THEY DIDN'T SAY NOTHING BOUT SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND COUNTY

12/12/2005 3:46:32 PM

so you deny that there have been limits placed on the content of the education in the US, say past about the 1960's or so?

12/12/2005 3:47:47 PM

sure call me names that makes you smarter.

12/12/2005 3:48:44 PM

time to backpedal and reconcile, eh mathman?

12/12/2005 3:50:54 PM

That cartoon is insulting to chinese people.

it takes 4 of them to make two statements?

[Edited on December 12, 2005 at 3:58 PM. Reason : *]

12/12/2005 3:58:01 PM

who is backpedaling? I stand by my statements, it is obvious what I meant by "state", if you don't understand then that's your problem not mine. Moreover, I was speaking to how "separation of church and state" is most commonly applied in this country. It is more than often used to keep the church out of official government functions, not the otherway around. Of course the other direction I tend to support, I think the government should keep out of religion, but not the converse. "Converse" means you turn the statement around if you were wondering.

12/12/2005 4:02:04 PM

Quote :

"There are stores that take money and so on. "

NO SHIT?!?!?!? i seriously hope you werent that naive.

12/12/2005 4:03:59 PM

^i think he is

ps
you implied that the opressions that Christians in china face even RESEBLES the "opression" Christians feel in Chester A Arthur High School in Bumfuck Indiana

that sir, is absurd

then you tried to suggest that liberals would like to see all religion removed from America
when in reality, we just want it removed from places operated by the government

OH MY GOODNESS

12/12/2005 4:08:37 PM

Quote :

"I visited China about a year ago and I was surprised how open it was. There are stores that take money and so on."

ahahahaha
oh man

THEY EVEN HAD STORES

12/12/2005 4:11:32 PM

You clearly missed the word "extrapolate". Second, I emphasized "secular" liberals with the obvious meaning. I wouldn't doubt that many well meaning Christian liberals do not understand the logical conclusion of removing God from the government while concurrently expanding the government. As to Pinky's comment, no comment... oops.

12/12/2005 4:17:07 PM

forgive me if i'm wrong, but hasn't china ALWAYS had stores?

it's not like they were running a system where the government handed out rations and that was that. commerce isn't disallowed or anything..

Of course, the fact that you tried to make it sound like we can't openly discuss god in american schools makes it obvious how little you know about what you're saying. It's perfectly fine to discuss god in schools, there just can't be a direct effort on the part of faculty and staff to force a certain religion on children. Kids can talk about god all they want, and actually, faculty are given pretty good leeway as far as what they can and can't say. They just have to be smart about it.

Quote :

"well meaning Christian liberals do not understand the logical conclusion of removing God from the government while concurrently expanding the government"

well meaning Christian conservatives do not understand the logical conclusion of keeping God in government while concurrently expanding the government, either

[Edited on December 12, 2005 at 4:20 PM. Reason : .]

12/12/2005 4:19:29 PM

I might have missed it but the fact that the majority of chinese wouldnt practice Christianity to begin with is an important point.

this is like saying we cant talk about Shiva in college!

OMG!

12/12/2005 4:23:53 PM

i'm glad other people are jumping in on this fool

THIS GUY IS GONNA BE THE BIG GIRLS NEW BEST FRIEND

12/12/2005 4:24:22 PM

Quote :

"Of course the other direction I tend to support, I think the government should keep out of religion, but not the converse."

so you want more religion in government

do you want to pick which religion

or would you mind if we slap a burka on your mom?

dumbass

12/12/2005 4:25:37 PM

i say we get some old school mormonism in government
i want lots of wives

12/12/2005 4:27:41 PM

i wanna be God of my own planet

12/12/2005 4:30:28 PM

hell yeah

12/12/2005 4:31:05 PM

how bout we get some moravian Christianity and hand out free cookies and cakes

12/12/2005 4:31:20 PM

my great aunt was in charge of the bakery at old salem for years
score

12/12/2005 4:32:09 PM

To the DirtyGreek

First, that was my point. They did used to have rations. I know this from conversation with some of my relatives. So yes it is something new for them to have stores which you can just buy whatever. Sorry if this is so difficult to understand.

Second, while I would not say we have no freedom to speak about religion in public schools, we certainly have less than we once did. We used to have prayer, the ten commandments and a whole lot more. The primer for reading was taken from scripture itself. If anybody did that today the ACLU would be there the next day to sue. I do agree with you that some amount of discussion is tolerated for now. So, I do not advocate the notion that it is the exactly the same as in China, again "extrapolate" should be noted.

Lastly, as a well meaning conservative why in the world would I not want the foundation of my morality and way of life embedded in the government? For example, I'd like to see murder be illegal. A moral wrong ought to also be a legal wrong. Plain as that, I cannot deny that some questions like that inevitably involve my religion. So I don't think it should be separated at least in that sense, otherwise the law is baseless.

[Edited on December 12, 2005 at 4:34 PM. Reason : was replying to the Dirty Greek]

12/12/2005 4:32:55 PM

if there is no christianity in the us murder would be legal and everyone would run around killing people and being homosexual

12/12/2005 4:35:15 PM

Well, I must say having read many of the posts of all ya all, I am honored that you do not agree with me.

12/12/2005 4:35:54 PM

ever seen Alexander?

12/12/2005 4:36:26 PM

i dont even know how to respond
anyone else want to take this

12/12/2005 4:37:25 PM

obviously joking, duh.

12/12/2005 4:38:55 PM

you are such an idiot

say CHRISTIANITY IN SCHOOLS if you want CHRISTIANITY IN SCHOOLS

there is a biggggg difference between religion and Christianity

Quote :

"Second, while I would not say we have no freedom to speak about religion in public schools, we certainly have less than we once did. We used to have prayer, the ten commandments and a whole lot more"

yeah, and the fucking muslims, jews, wiccans, and atheists have a lot more freedom than they once did

and how the fuck is forced reading and prayer "freedom"

you sir
are a fucking idiot

i wish you had been left in china and locked up for your beliefs, so you'd know what real prosecution felt like

or had your fingers sewn together

or your lips burned so you could never say God's name again

like what happens to Christians over there

fuck you and your "the reading primer came from the Bible" shit

12/12/2005 4:38:58 PM

i think the idea that christians are persecuted in this country is causing a lot of the things that are wrong with a lot of the christians in this country

[Edited on December 12, 2005 at 4:42 PM. Reason : meh, i worded that really bad but i think my point is made]

12/12/2005 4:40:26 PM

yawn. names names names.

12/12/2005 4:40:33 PM

it stings cause its true

12/12/2005 4:41:25 PM

no it's boring because it's so predictable.

12/12/2005 4:42:50 PM

remember when we used to burn witches. Man those were the good ol' days before christians lost all their rights

12/12/2005 4:43:47 PM

ha, yes, act like my criticisms aren't valid because i use profanity or mock you

in the end

other religions have more freedoms
and Christians are JUST AS FUCKING FREE AS ANYONE ELSE IN THIS COUNTRY

i'm sorry if you miss the days when we were special

i for one would rather be equals here

12/12/2005 4:44:14 PM

this country was founded by christians
oh wait

12/12/2005 4:45:04 PM

oh and christians arnt being percecuted. They have just been put on the same level as every other religion in the country. BuT THIS IS NO GOOD!

and this place is a melting pot......just as long as you believe our shit

[Edited on December 12, 2005 at 4:46 PM. Reason : ah damn woodfoot beat me.]

12/12/2005 4:45:38 PM

closer to the same level

12/12/2005 4:46:39 PM

Quote :

"no it's boring because it's so predictable."

SAYS THE GUY WHO HAS BEEN DROPPING GROUNDBREAKING KNOWLEDGE ON US

HEY GUYS, DID YOU KNOW CHINA HAS A CURRENCY? AND STORES? OMG

12/12/2005 4:48:32 PM

Wow, a snipe at the Kelo rulling of the Supreme Court turned into a religion in education bout how?

12/12/2005 4:48:38 PM

its how we do. and mathman left i think so we're all just bitching at no one now.

12/12/2005 4:49:32 PM

for the sake of every graduate and student at NCSU, i hope that fucker is a troll

THEY HAVE CASH REGISTERS IN CHINA???

12/12/2005 4:54:48 PM

^ What next!?!? Horseless Carriages!?!? Next you'll be telling me that Chinamen can fly!

<sorry, peer presure>

12/12/2005 4:56:16 PM

hahahaha
embrace it

i'll give you folks 3:1 odds he prays for some of us tonight

12/12/2005 4:58:38 PM

Vulgarity is what it is, common.

And, no I don't think that Christianity should be put on the same footing as every other religion in this country. Most people here are Christian, and many of us would like for our children to be taught a curriculum which reflect our own heritage as special. We pay tons of money in this country for an education, that by it's silence on the issue of Christianity, ultimately argues that Chirstianity is not need to understand world events or the origin of life. Parents not government should decide what is and is not taught in school. Now, are those topics controversial? Well duh. Does everybody believe what I do? Of course not, present company obvious counterexamples. My point is simply that if I as a Christian want my child to be taught an exclusively Christian education then I am not free to do so. Moreover, as an educator I would be bound by the same constraints.

Christianity is special in this country, we ought to be free to make it such in the schools.

Besides that, the only solution that would placate me would be to simply eradicate the public schools altogether. That was the essence of my original point, missed by most of you I guess. If we did not have public schools ( smaller government ) then we would not be at the moment debating on wether or not God should be allowed in education.

12/12/2005 5:02:52 PM

homeschool.

and the problem is Catholics, mormons, protestants.

they dont all believe the same thing so should we teach them all or just the one you like.

12/12/2005 5:06:16 PM

Absolutely, if the government would remove the opressive tax burden, then alot of people could afford to homeschool. Anyway, insult me in my absense I must go an purchase food for the wife, your insults are amusing her's are not.

12/12/2005 5:10:59 PM

Quote :

"We used to have prayer, the ten commandments and a whole lot more. "

mathman, you're saying this like it's a good thing. You want CHRISTIAN prayer, the judeo-christian ten commandments, etc, correct?

Would you be equally ok with the tenets of the satanist faith posted in schools and the supreme court?

please think logically

12/12/2005 5:26:04 PM