I need some recommendations or personal experiences on handgun safes. I want something that can easily be hidden or mounted under my bed or in my closet. I am also looking for a safe that is easy to open in the middle of the night so if I need quick access to my handgun. I have two favorites so far, the gunvault mini-vault (http://www.gunvault.com/products/) and the v-line desk mate (http://www.vlineind.com/html/desk_mate.html). This is also a possibility, but is a little larger and more expensive than what I would like http://www.handgunsafe.com/4811s.htm.

I have seen 2 other handgun threads in the past week, but nowhere have I seen the Taurus 24/7 mentioned. I am looking at getting this just for personal defense. I have read a lot of good recommendations on it and am considering either the 9mm or the 40 S&W. I don't want anything small like a Kel-Tec. It is about all I can afford right now with the purchase of a safe too. Thanks for any help or recommendations.

12/11/2005 7:54:20 PM

check out my thread from a month ago....some good gun info in there

http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=366956

Gander Mtn had the 24/7 after thanksgiving for $299 in a 9mm and I was really close to buying it....seemed like a great gun but I went with the Ruger p345

12/11/2005 8:15:37 PM

If you are looking for a home defence weapon and will not be shooting it often go with the .40 S&W. It has much more stopping power than a 9mm. Ammunition for the 9mm is much cheaper though if you are going to be shooting it often and you are worried about expence. I also read a lot of good things about the 24/7 in a magazine last year. It was one of the best valued automatics made last year... As for the safes the gunvault is a good one. I know someone that had one. He was very happy with it and it was extreamly easy to open once you get used to it.

12/11/2005 8:26:05 PM

if you are going to leave th gun sitting a lot, look for a revolver. Get a 357 mag, shoot 38 special in it to get used to it, and leave it in the safe loaded with 357 mag HP or Glasers. Affordable. plus hits like the wrath of god if you ever need to use it.

12/11/2005 8:29:32 PM

Thanks to everyone so far. I am leaning towards the 9mm because I do plan on shooting it some. I am still new to handguns and I want to feel confident in shooting it if I ever needed to, which equates to some time at the range.

I am still open to recommendations from others especially about the gun safe.

12/11/2005 8:42:37 PM

Why are you getting a safe? If you are worried about someone stealing your guns, be sure to get one that you can bolt to the floor or something. Having a gun safe that a thief can simply take with him to pry open at his leisure isn't very safe, is it?

Quote :

"If you are looking for a home defense weapon and will not be shooting it often go with the .40 S&W. It has much more stopping power than a 9mm."

No. Get what you are comfortable with. Rent some .40s and 9mms and decide which you like better. If you get a .40 and can't hit shit with it, then the only defending it is going to do for you is by blunt force trauma.

If you get a home defense weapon and don't shoot it a lot, you are setting yourself up for trouble. A gun is only as effective as the shooter.

A 9mm will kill someone just as dead as a .40.

Quote :

"Get a 357 mag, shoot 38 special in it to get used to it, and leave it in the safe loaded with 357 mag HP or Glasers."

You can't get used to a .357 by shooting .38. You get used to .357 by shooting .357.

I do not recommend .357 or any Magnums as a personal defense cartridge because they are very powerful and unwieldy, have a tendency to over-penetrate, and the guns are very heavy to take up the recoil. The light ones are usually snub-nosed and do not yield full powder burn, thus resulting in a less powerful gun and totally throwing the purpose of the .357 in the first place out the window. They are also very loud and can have huge muzzle flashes, which can seriously debilitate you at night.

12/11/2005 8:58:24 PM

I know a guy who works as an electrician. He has a gun display case in his living room and when my brother walked up to it he spotted him and loudly announced "I wouldn't touch that!"

Turns out he has wired the case into the houses AC power. He said that "If anyone breaks into this house, they will be here when I get back."



(btw, I wouldn't recommend doing that for legal reasons)

12/11/2005 9:02:18 PM

Quote :

" Why are you getting a safe? If you are worried about someone stealing your guns, be sure to get one that you can bolt to the floor or something. Having a gun safe that a thief can simply take with him to pry open at his leisure isn't very safe, is it? "

You are correct in everything you said. I am getting the safe mainly so if my roommates happen to be in my room, say getting the vacuum cleaner or something, they won't see my gun just laying around. Instead they will see my safe and have no idea what is in it. A safe like this I will mount under my bed or to the wall in my closet. I know this won't deter the best thieves, but I will deter a few. I keep all my guns that I am worried about being stolen at my dad's house locked up in a true gun safe that is bolted to the floor.

Quote :

"If you get a home defense weapon and don't shoot it a lot, you are setting yourself up for trouble. A gun is only as effective as the shooter."

Again, I agree with you. That is one reason I am not getting a 357 mag. My dad has one and I don't want to shoot it enough to be effective with it. He also has a Bersa Thunder 380 that I like, but I want something that is a little bigger (just personal preference here). After seeing the replies in this thread I am pretty sure I am getting the 9mm because the bullets are cheap enough I can practice with them regularly.

[Edited on December 11, 2005 at 9:24 PM. Reason : see]

12/11/2005 9:23:50 PM

It is good to get practice, but don't use the cheap ammo all the time. For defense stuff, you'll want to get some glasers or semi-wadcutters or the likes. It is good to get general practice, but you'll need to get familiar with the good stuff too.

I don't think not telling your roommates about having a gun is a good idea, but that's not really my business I suppose.

12/11/2005 9:39:23 PM

^I don't trust one of my roommates to know I have a gun. What is your reasoning for letting them know? I have only priced the cheap ammo. How much do the glasers and the other good ammo cost?

Again thanks everyone for your help!

12/11/2005 10:01:35 PM

get whatever you'd most like to be shot with, b/c it's most likely to be used against you.


personally, I think a nice .45 would polish me off w/ a minimum of suffering so I'd go that route w/ hydrashok ammo

12/11/2005 11:13:13 PM

Quote :

"If you are looking for a home defence weapon and will not be shooting it often go with the .40 S&W. It has much more stopping power than a 9mm. Ammunition for the 9mm is much cheaper though if you are going to be shooting it often and you are worried about expence. I also read a lot of good things about the 24/7 in a magazine last year. It was one of the best valued automatics made last year... As for the safes the gunvault is a good one. I know someone that had one. He was very happy with it and it was extreamly easy to open once you get used to it. "

shot both of those in the last month, .40 is way better.

12/11/2005 11:15:02 PM

my friend got this one from dick's...has a keypad to enter a code or you can use a key...
he mounted it to the shelf very easily.

12/11/2005 11:30:24 PM

Quote :

"get whatever you'd most like to be shot with, b/c it's most likely to be used against you."

That is true. One of my friends dad is a retired police cheif and he said that most of the time they would respond to a break-in homicide, the homeowners were shot with a gun they owned.

You are honestly better off getting a security system. (That way you will have advanced warning and the cops will already be on the way.)

You can also consider non-lethal (albeit extremely painful) alternatives such as rock-salt shotgun rounds.

12/12/2005 9:17:03 AM

can you provide a statistic or is friend's dads buddy good enough to make a descision on your safety with?

12/12/2005 11:56:42 AM

the best gun for home defense is a 12 gauge shotgun by far. you don't really have to "aim"..just point in the general direction and BOOM
plus you don't have to worry about it going through too many walls or outside of the house
If you want my source, I got it from a weapon safety/information course.

[Edited on December 12, 2005 at 12:00 PM. Reason : yep]

12/12/2005 11:59:26 AM

the handgun safe seems like a safe bet. pun intended.

12/12/2005 1:07:33 PM

This is a common misconception. A shotgun at combat range (~7 yards) will spread less than 4 inches (buck shot should be closer to 2). This is good and what makes the shotgun a formidable combat weapon. Also the shotgun will be a lot more difficult to maneuver and use. Having a pump can create many problems under a stressful environment for someone who doesn’t train a lot. Also difficulty of follow-up shots and disorientation due to extreme recoil and noise could cause problems to a novice. Also any round that is effective defensive round will easily penetrate 6 or more sheetrock wall along with board and will often penetrate brick. http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm

12/12/2005 1:14:36 PM

hmm interesting...
well.. a good pump shotgun is easy to use and relatively cheap...probably why they are common defense weapons...
TO ME...i'm a much better shot with a pump shotgun than a handgun...
my buddy's remington 870 holds 6 or 7 shells with 1 loaded...and i can go through it at a pretty fast rate...
guess it depends on what you are comfortable with...
not to mention getting shot with a shotgun would make it look like ground hamburger ...wounds from shotguns are harder to repair than bullets

[Edited on December 12, 2005 at 2:13 PM. Reason : ya]

12/12/2005 2:11:49 PM

Quote :

"can you provide a statistic or is friend's dads buddy good enough to make a descision on your safety with?"

I would still keep a gun on hand. I just think that for home security an alarm system makes more sense than relying you to make a life/death decision in the middle of the night.

I still stick by my rock-salt round suggestion. If you shoot someone with rock-salt they likely won't die but they will wish they did.

12/12/2005 2:12:35 PM

lmao what are you going to do when someone breaks into your room? say "hey dude wait a sec let me open this safe"? Just go ahead and admit you want to have a gun for fun, this "need for security" spiel isn't fooling anyone. If you wanted security you'd buy a security system. Like dropout said

Quote :

"get whatever you'd most like to be shot with, b/c it's most likely to be used against you"

12/12/2005 2:23:28 PM

Quote :

"I don't trust one of my roommates to know I have a gun. What is your reasoning for letting them know?"

Guns are a touchy subject with some. I'd rather let them know now than to have them go apeshit when they find out later.

Quote :

"I have only priced the cheap ammo. How much do the glasers and the other good ammo cost?"

Probably around 50 cents per

Quote :

"Also the shotgun will be a lot more difficult to maneuver and use. Having a pump can create many problems under a stressful environment for someone who doesn’t train a lot. Also difficulty of follow-up shots and disorientation due to extreme recoil and noise could cause problems to a novice."

I don't think a shotgun will be more difficult to use than a handgun. It has a stock to take up the recoil. A lot of times I shoot my 12ga without ear protection and I don't feel any discomfort (although it is birdshot). I've always found the pumping motion to be natural and doesn't really take much getting used to.

Quote :

"lmao what are you going to do when someone breaks into your room? say "hey dude wait a sec let me open this safe"?"

I think the idea is to be able to get the gun before someone has a chance to break in his room.

[Edited on December 12, 2005 at 6:59 PM. Reason : ]

12/12/2005 6:59:16 PM

Thanks for all of your replies. The two things I am looking at are not true gun safes and I had hoped that they would be easy enough for me to open before someone got into my room. I was hoping someone might have experience with something similar to these "safes" and give me some advice on whether they could be opened quickly and were secure considering their purpose.

I have considered the shotgun option and this would be cheaper because I already have a nice 12 ga. I don't like this option because I travel a lot and I don't feel safe leaving a shotgun in my place when I am not there.(BTW my shotgun is locked up in my dad's gun safe) It would also be very obvious to my neighbors if I carried a huge case out to my vehicle everytime I left for the weekend giving someone more reason to break into my place. In the future when I have my own house I will have a loaded shotgun ready at all times.

To me the security system is just not an option at this point. I can't afford the monthly monitoring fees. For home security everyone is right, you just can't beat a security system, but I can't afford the rates and I know my roommates can't because they can barely afford to pay the rent.

I realize that a handgun is not the best option, but right now I feel it is my only option. I will also consider telling my roommates if I do end up making this purchase after the good points made in this thread.

12/12/2005 8:28:30 PM

FWIW, I don't support an opinion one way or another - but go into this decision w/ your eyes open. You are responsible for that weapon... regardless of who uses it. Shotguns are nice b/c they are old technology that works - and it's somewhat harder to accidentally remove a body part if you need it in an emergency (incredibly unlikely, but what the hell).

Best option - get a big dog w/ a nice bark , companionship and most burglars won't mess w/ a house w/ a dog.

---------------------- (the "FACT" was put in by the original author, I don't care enough to actually verify this)------------------


FACT:In 2002, there were 30,242 gun deaths in the U.S:


17,108 suicides (56% of all U.S gun deaths),
11,829 homicides (39% of all U.S gun deaths),
762 unintentional shootings (3% of all U.S gun deaths),
and 300 from legal intervention and 243 from undetermined intent (2% of all U.S gun deaths combined).
-Numbers obtained from CDC National Center for Health Statistics mortality report online, 2005.


FACT: While handguns account for only one-third of all firearms owned in the United States, they account for more than two-thirds of all firearm-related deaths each year. A gun in the home is 4 times more likely to be involved in an unintentional shooting, 7 times more likely to be used to commit a criminal assault or homicide, and 11 times more likely to be used to attempt or commit suicide than to be used in self-defense.

-A Kellerman, et al. Journal of Trauma, August 1998; Kellerman AL, Lee RK, Mercy JA, et al. "The Epidemiological Basis for the Prevention of Firearm Injuries." Annu.Rev Public Health. 1991; 12:17-40.)

FACT: A gun in the home increases the risk of homicide of a household member by 3 times and the risk of suicide by 5 times compared to homes where no gun is present.

-Kellerman AL, Rivara FP, Somes G, et al. "Suicide in the Home in Relation to Gun Ownership." NEJM. 1992; 327(7):467-472)


FACT: Comparison of U.S. gun homicides to other industrialized countries:
In 1998 (the most recent year for which this data has been compiled), handguns murdered:


373 people in Germany
151 people in Canada
57 people in Australia
19 people in Japan
54 people in England and Wales, and
11,789 people in the United States
(*Please note that these 1998 numbers account only for HOMICIDES, and do not include suicides, which comprise and even greater number of gun deaths, or unintentional shootings).

- Provided by the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence



FACT: Among 26 industrialized nations, 86% of gun deaths among children under age 15 occurred in the United States.


- Provided by the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence


FACT: Contrary to popular belief, young children do possess the physical strength to fire a gun: 25% of 3 to 4 year olds, 70% of 5 to 6 year olds, and 90% of 7 to 8 year olds can fire most handguns.


- Naureckas, SM, Christoffel, KK, et al. Archives of Pediatrics and Adolescent Medicine, 1995


FACT: While handguns account for only one-third of all firearms owned in the United States, they account for more than two-thirds of all firearm-related deaths each year. A gun kept in the home is 22 times more likely to be used in a homicide, suicide or unintentional shooting than to be used in self-defense.

- Kellerman AL, Lee RK, Mercy JA, et al. "The Epidemiological Basis for the Prevention of Firearm Injuries." Annu. Rev. Public Health. 1991; 12:17-40


FACT: Every two years more Americans die from firearm injuries than the total number of American soldiers killed during the 8-year Vietnam War. In 1999, the total number of people killed by guns in the United States was 28,874,a 6% decrease from 1998 figures.


- Based on data from CDC National Center for Health Statistics report "Deaths: Final Data for 1999." Vol. 49, No. 8


People who keep guns at home have a 72% greater chance of being killed by firearms and are 3.44 times more likely to commit suicide than those who do not keep guns at home (Annals of Emergency Medicine, Vol 41, p. 771).
A recent survey of 236 types of pistols made in the U.S. found that:
only 13% had a loaded chamber indicator
only 20% had a grip safety to make it harder for children to use the gun
only 21% had a magazine safety, which prevents the gun from firing when the magazine has been removed, even if there is already a round in the chamber of the gun
(Annals of Emergency Medicine, Vol 41, p 1)
A recent Emory University study shows that 32% of unintended shootings in the U.S. are caused by deficiencies in gun design. (Annals of Emergency Medicine, Vol 41, p 10)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

12/13/2005 12:36:19 AM

Quote :

"FACT: While handguns account for only one-third of all firearms owned in the United States, they account for more than two-thirds of all firearm-related deaths each year. A gun in the home is 4 times more likely to be involved in an unintentional shooting, 7 times more likely to be used to commit a criminal assault or homicide, and 11 times more likely to be used to attempt or commit suicide than to be used in self-defense."

Perfect example of why people should train with the weapons they buy and should store them properly (gg rdnckrandall for making it a point to get a safe).

It should also be pointed out that there are lots of criminals in our country. Lots of criminals own guns. Lots of criminals use these guns and that's why a gun in a home is 7 times more likely to be used for criminal purposes. If you are not a criminal you obviously won't be part of that group that uses them in homocides or criminal assaults.

Quote :

"FACT: Comparison of U.S. gun homicides to other industrialized countries: In 1998 (the most recent year for which this data has been compiled), handguns murdered: "

Many countries such as the UK do not report a gun related death as a homocide unless someone is convicted of the crime.

Quote :

"FACT: Among 26 industrialized nations, 86% of gun deaths among children under age 15 occurred in the United States."

Of course they do. We simply have a shitload more gun related homocides.

Quote :

"FACT: Contrary to popular belief, young children do possess the physical strength to fire a gun: 25% of 3 to 4 year olds, 70% of 5 to 6 year olds, and 90% of 7 to 8 year olds can fire most handguns."

Wow, anyone who thinks a child can't pull a trigger doesn't have the intelligence to own a gun.

Quote :

"People who keep guns at home have a 72% greater chance of being killed by firearms"

Again, lots of criminals own guns and lots of criminals get shot with guns.

Quote :

"A recent survey of 236 types of pistols made in the U.S. found that: only 13% had a loaded chamber indicator only 20% had a grip safety to make it harder for children to use the gun only 21% had a magazine safety, which prevents the gun from firing when the magazine has been removed, even if there is already a round in the chamber of the gun"

Are they implying that a mechanical safety is a good substitute for propper firearms training and education?

My point with this post is you need to think about these statistics. Statistics don't lie, but people do mindlessly read them and draw conclusions.
If a responsible person seeks education and training in firearms then keeps one in their house, are they really going to fall into those statistics?

The anti-gun group needs to quit being stupid and address the real problem, stupid people.

12/13/2005 1:35:47 AM